WARPIG Discusses and Tests Nerve Rebound

[SlartyBartFast]

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/smartparts/nerve/rebound/

Good article and tests. Well done Bill. :cheers:

Now, if Turbo was refused by the insurance companies, why does everyone think they'll accept Rebound?

[Kevmaster]

how is this cheating any less than ramping and everything else to get around the 1-shot 1-pull rule?

damn all this crap

[Lohman446]

how is this cheating any less than ramping and everything else to get around the 1-shot 1-pull rule?

damn all this crap


Because, when explicity allowed in the rules (PSP and others) it is no longer cheating.. Don't like the rules, get them changed or don't play there - but quit referring to something as allowed by the rules as cheating. :D Smiley.. I say that nicely

Was it cheating before the rule change - dang straight

Is it cheating now - in some places, maybe

Is it cheating in every major tournament series - NO

[68magOwner]

yes, ramping is allowed in psp and cfoa now, but, you and i both know that people ramp at your every day field all the time now, and that is not legal, people passing out chips. Boards saying "its legal in PSP" well, go find out the percentage of people with rampers that actually play/use it legally in psp. I really dont see ramping as a huge threat, i encounter it all the time, and find that its not difficult to deal with (play against) but, the ecuse that it is legal at some tourneys is a crappy excuse for ramping

[Lohman446]

yes, ramping is allowed in psp and cfoa now, but, you and i both know that people ramp at your every day field all the time now, and that is not legal, people passing out chips. Boards saying "its legal in PSP" well, go find out the percentage of people with rampers that actually play/use it legally in psp. I really dont see ramping as a huge threat, i encounter it all the time, and find that its not difficult to deal with (play against) but, the ecuse that it is legal at some tourneys is a crappy excuse for ramping


Let me ask you this. For some time CA was accepted in rec-ball but it was strictly outlawed in tournament ball. Does that mean everyone not using 12 grams for rec-play was cheating

Edit: I have bolded the original question, which I beleive to be very valid, but I need to go and clarify my position here. I honestly and openly do not know where I stand on the use of ramping. I understand the arguments against it, though I beleive them often overblown by the people making them. I understand the arguments of the people for it, though I question if I want this part of technology to even out the sport. I have used it, though never illegally - though often against people who did not have it. I am not trying to argue for it, but I do question the argument "well its cheating plain and simple so we shouldn't allow it". Its not like wiping - I don't see any place for paintball that says "you can just wipe off hits" (actually I do, some scenario games where they may simulate strong combatants by allowing it, but you get the point). However, I hope you get my point - this may be an evolution of paintball, and it may not be bad. Argue against it all you want, but I think the "its cheating" argument does not hold water universally. I look forward to seeing the discussion that this thread will bring

[ApexAZ]

I wish they'd standardize it more and just stick with it.

As a newer player looking to get an electro in the future, I feel that I should get one with ramping modes because it's available and if I ever do play any tournaments, I'll have the option available to me.

It's kind of confusing if it's cheating or not =(

Oh well, for now I'm happy with my mech and seem to be doing alright.

[Jimbud]

Let me ask you this. For some time CA was accepted in rec-ball but it was strictly outlawed in tournament ball. Does that mean everyone not using 12 grams for rec-play was cheating

Edit: I have bolded the original question, which I beleive to be very valid, but I need to go and clarify my position here. I honestly and openly do not know where I stand on the use of ramping. I understand the arguments against it, though I beleive them often overblown by the people making them. I understand the arguments of the people for it, though I question if I want this part of technology to even out the sport. I have used it, though never illegally - though often against people who did not have it. I am not trying to argue for it, but I do question the argument "well its cheating plain and simple so we shouldn't allow it". Its not like wiping - I don't see any place for paintball that says "you can just wipe off hits" (actually I do, some scenario games where they may simulate strong combatants by allowing it, but you get the point). However, I hope you get my point - this may be an evolution of paintball, and it may not be bad. Argue against it all you want, but I think the "its cheating" argument does not hold water universally. I look forward to seeing the discussion that this thread will bring


First off that is not a vailid comparison.
Tourny rules do not directly transfer to to rec play.
When was the last time you were pull from a rec game becouse another player on your team wiped or played on after they were hit.

If you tryed to use CA in a tourny that did not allow it that that is cheating.
But if it was allowed at your rec field and you used it, it was not "cheating" becouse it was not aginst the rules.

Most, if not all PB field insurance underwriters only allow 1 shot per pull semi auto.
If the field owner allows any other firing modes to be used at their field then they are assuming full liability.
As a result most if not all rec fields will not allow Rebound, Ramping or any other "enhanced" firing mode.
So if you use it at a rec field where it is disallowed you will be cheating.

[Lohman446]

First off that is not a vailid comparison.
Tourny rules do not directly transfer to to rec play.
When was the last time you were pull from a rec game becouse another player on your team wiped or played on after they were hit.

If you tryed to use CA in a tourny that did not allow it that that is cheating.
But if it was allowed at your rec field and you used it, it was not "cheating" becouse it was not aginst the rules.

Most, if not all PB field insurance underwriters only allow 1 shot per pull semi auto.
If the field owner allows any other firing modes to be used at their field then they are assuming full liability.
As a result most if not all rec fields will not allow Rebound, Ramping or any other "enhanced" firing mode.
So if you use it at a rec field where it is disallowed you will be cheating.


All of this is true, but take what I said in the context I said it in, recall it was in response to this post.


yes, ramping is allowed in psp and cfoa now, but, you and i both know that people ramp at your every day field all the time now, and that is not legal, people passing out chips. Boards saying "its legal in PSP" well, go find out the percentage of people with rampers that actually play/use it legally in psp. I really dont see ramping as a huge threat, i encounter it all the time, and find that its not difficult to deal with (play against) but, the ecuse that it is legal at some tourneys is a crappy excuse for ramping

While his point is true (I beleive) and valid there are some situations where things that are not allowed in tourneys are allowed in other places. Had everyone stuck to the no CA rule we would still be using 12 grams - sure Vikings would be quick, for 20 balls or so :). I am making the comparison that sometimes things get pushed, pushing the envelope of the rule. I would argue that ramping is even more legitimate to offer because it is accepted in some tournaments.

That being said, using it where it is not allowed is cheating - but ramping itself is not cheating, it has legitimate uses. Make the arguments against it, but don't let its cheating be that argument.

Personally my arguments, with myself about ramping involve violation of ASTM standards, obvious and glaring civil liability and the distinct impression, after research, that should something happen, there could very well be criminal issues to deal with.

[NukeGoose]

It'd be nice if all board manufacturers would make ALL boards or chips that ramp CFOA/PSP style ramping - after the first three shots, the board automatically ramps to a steady 15 balls a second as long as you keep pulling the trigger. This is very easy to catch.

However, that's obviously not going to happen. With companies that deliberately make boards designed to cheat (cough Advantage cough), there's no way to catch everyone or completely ban all ramping boards. There are boards for most popular tournament guns that mimic the stock board completely, except they ramp 50% once you hit a certain speed which is almost impossible to catch in action. Many also have an automatic ramp shut-off or will shut off with a code, which a player can put in at the end of the game.

Love it or hate it, ramping is here to stay. Do I like it? No. Is there anything I can do about it? No. The people who cheat by using ramping boards are not going to give up their boards, and there's nothing that can be done to catch them at this time. Whining about people ramping isn't going to do any good at all. I'd like to see nationwide BPS cap, all semi-auto - 15 BPS seems fine to me, as that's about the upper limit of most people's fingers (don't believe the BS on PBNation), and during a game most players don't even fire that fast. Will everyone be using true semi-auto guns? No, people will still try to cheat - ramp from say 12 to 15. However, this is not as big of a deal to walkons/normal play as CFOA ramping would be. Once people start to get used to what 15 BPS sounds like, it will be easy to tell if someone's going over it.

Ramping is here to stay, and the sooner that we realize that, the sooner we can deal with it.

[billmi]

Good article and tests. Well done Bill. :cheers:


Thanks :-)



Now, if Turbo was refused by the insurance companies, why does everyone think they'll accept Rebound?

The ones that don't accept Turbo won't. The ones that will insure full auto and enhanced modes will.

[Teamslayer76]

I own a Nerve, and I hate Smart Parts alot. But its one hell of a nice gun. And speaking the Nasty Nerve that looks sweet is out right now. Ill put a pic so you all can see.
http://store1.yimg.com/I/paintballwholesalers2003-store_1840_9130

I think its awsome, the nerve is awsome. And for Ramping it shouldn't be legal but its damn fun to play around with. Like in the backyard or a little game.

[Maggot6]

Somewhat like a loyalist thinks, I'll pull the trigger everytime I want it to fire.,,,,...I like warpig, their articles are really good and detailed..