whats up with people buying lower end guns ?

[Soopa Villain17]

ok since the ion and wrath have come out people are selling htere shockers angels timmys etc... just to buy a cheaper electro gun , why though ? the ion and wrath arent any better ? please fill me in on this thanks

[Lohman446]

ok since the ion and wrath have come out people are selling htere shockers angels timmys etc... just to buy a cheaper electro gun , why though ? the ion and wrath arent any better ? please fill me in on this thanks

Because we have overinvested to compete. Some people don't like having $1000 markers, they feel the have to to compete. Somehow (right or wrong, not the discussion) they are convinced that an Ion will nto hinder there ability to compete at all - so getting some cash out seems to be a good idea to them.

[txaggie08]

Because we have overinvested to compete. Some people don't like having $1000 markers, they feel the have to to compete. Somehow (right or wrong, not the discussion) they are convinced that an Ion will nto hinder there ability to compete at all - so getting some cash out seems to be a good idea to them.

bingo. its a good, fast gun that has all the features of there 1000$ markers. they can sell the uber ecpensive ones, get a gun thats almos as good and have enoug money left to play on for a while. makes since to me

more specificaly to "why cause there not better" thing is, there a whole helluva lot better compared to what they cost. no the quality may not be as high, but for 300$........well as far as im concerned you need to get into the 700$ new rang to start realy competing with the features and potential.

[ben-afficial]

txaggie you need to slow down and type right......any ways people just see a good, shiney gun for less than there setup so they sale theirs to...be cool, conform, an advantage...im realy not to sure, i see new guns and admire them then relize mines still better :dance:

[Chronobreak]

im sick of hearing about ions honestly

everyone and their brother is getting one know and the real players arent selling their good markers unles they NEED to.

however alot of newer kids are RAVING these things like no other. btw its nothing special and for my $ ide just assume get a pirhana evo..but i guess thats just me.

or heck a classic mag,hopper,and nitro tank for that price.... :cool:

the 17 bps claim is what seems to draw them in they think 17 bps omg yes i wil be the master of all that is p-ball(exageration) :ninja:

not realsing that 17 is WITH ramping mode..

ive yet to see a legal ion exceed 12~ bps legally.

theyr fairly new and theyrs already been some problems with them(ion forums) mainly from the factory :spit_take

well see how they hold up over time.

[txaggie08]

Why is it neccessary for everyon to be a critic of spelling and grammar on the internet. Does it make you feel better or something?

[JimmyBeam]

ok since the ion and wrath have come out people are selling htere shockers angels timmys etc... just to buy a cheaper electro gun , why though ? the ion and wrath arent any better ? please fill me in on this thanks

let me ask you this....why do some people feel that a good paintball gun has to cost upwards of 1k?

[Jotsy]

i think the point is, if you've already got a good gun, why sell it just so you can buy an ion? an a key thing is, a lot of ppl are selling their old markers at really low prices... just enough to afford ions...

i saw an ebladed cocker get sold for $300 last week... its ridiculuos... i was sooo temtped ;)

[peewee]

It's an evil cycle. I don't by uber gun # 312. Just because its new. Spent a fortune in the past. Settled with a mag & phantom & my stuff always works & gets the job done. :D

[phantomhitman]

let me ask you this....why do some people feel that a good paintball gun has to cost upwards of 1k?

because of all of $1k guns i have shot they have all outperformed the lower end guns. you get what you pay for, either good looks, hype, speed, more hype, comfort, size and weight, warranty, or overall gun performance the $1k guns. if you dont need any of those than spend $300 on an ion. kind of like the differnce between a civic and a ferrari.......they both do the same thing...... ;)

[68magOwner]

now with playing 15bps ramping tourneys, i feel that my lil bro's ion is on par with my viking of course the viking out classes it in some areas like efficency, ease of matinance, durability, ect, but, the ion gets the job done, and for alot less $$$. I for one will be holding on to my marker, but, i can definately see why someone dropping their high dollar marker for a cheaper one that performs on the level they need it to makes sense.

[JimmyBeam]

because of all of $1k guns i have shot they have all outperformed the lower end guns. you get what you pay for, either good looks, hype, speed, more hype, comfort, size and weight, warranty, or overall gun performance the $1k guns. if you dont need any of those than spend $300 on an ion. kind of like the differnce between a civic and a ferrari.......they both do the same thing...... ;)

well so far im up to about 650 spent on the Ion and ups. so.......is it a good gun yet???

if your marker works well, is reliable, and consistant.....stick with it. who cares if you didnt spend 1k on it. i simply just love to play. but at the same time, the game has changed wit hteh advances in technology of the markers. but i dont need my marker to outperform the other team's markers, i just need to keep up. then we will just let skill decide who will win after that.

[SlartyBartFast]

because of all of $1k guns i have shot they have all outperformed the lower end guns. you get what you pay for, either good looks, hype, speed, more hype, comfort, size and weight, warranty, or overall gun performance the $1k guns. if you dont need any of those than spend $300 on an ion. kind of like the differnce between a civic and a ferrari.......they both do the same thing...... ;)

Rubbish. In paintball, very rarely is the difference like the difference between a civic and a ferrari. :rolleyes:

Most of the time the difference is like the difference between a Civic and a Ricer (but one that has done NOTHING to any performance related item). 1000's of dollars and basically the same car with a weird paint job, funny lights, a plastic skirt kit, and a rear wing. :rofl:

Would you be dumping on the ION if they added 500$ worth of milled and anno'd body to it?

The Blazer is an amazing gun. You only pay for functionality. Does it become "high-end" only if another 500$ is added in looks and flash?

Mechanically and performance wise, it's probably possible to get the same performance and reliability out of a gun 1/10th the price of many of the "high-end" guns if you keep your vanity in check.

[kenndogg]

I about to actually trade down from my viking to a bushy. Other than the fact I could use some extra cash I've come to the realization that I really don't need a high end to competitively compete against all those dm4s, shockers and angels. Seriously, how much faster are those guns compared to the mid-range ones? Not much if any IMO. Sure you'll look like a pro and impress all the kiddies with that 1k gun but in the end you still have to rely on your skills.

[Athius]

Well i bought an 05 speed because i like the features and because of the quality something that SP never has on his markers and BTW i shot the ion and in every shot the marker felt like it was gonna fall appart.

[phantomhitman]

ill put it to both of you as fair as possible
if you had the choice between a stock dm5 or an ion, both for free, which would you take?
none of this but or what if crap attached, just plain simple stock guns on both sides. you cant say i would get the dm5 and sell it and buy my whole team ions either........
also, a dm5-new timmy-etc outperforms an ion on so many levels
looks-eye of the beholder there, but the upperend guns have it imo
speed-no cap on high end guns, easy to attain speed legally and keep it there (better, smoother trigger system and trigger geometry)
consistent-ion reg is decent, but not like the +-5 fps i get with my dm5 (therefore add mroe money for a reg for the ion)
hype-oh god, this is a tough one. i hyped up $1400 gun or a over hyped $300 gun :confused:
stock parts-high end guns have decent regs, barrels, adj feedenecks, and other do hickeys. low end guns have hardly any, if at all, of these features. that is how they keep teh cost down.
size, weight, and comfort-also in the eyes of the beholder. some people want more solid markers, others want it as light as possible.

i understand, and agree, that the player makes the game, not the gun. but i do not agree %100 on that, there are always exceptions to the rule. there is quite the difference in paintball (as it pertains to the civic vs ferrar analogyi). take your entry level stock spyder, and put it up against a dm5-timmy-etc. and the high end gun will outperform it on every level. but just like cars it depends of who drives it to get the most out of it. But you could always dump hundereds of dollars into a spyder and make it just as fast, but guess what, its still a spyder. MOST more expensive guns are made out of better materials, have better overall performance, and have the "ambiance" of the upper end of the paintball world. some people get high end guns to compete, others to show off. what ever floats your boat

[Lohman446]

Here's where the Ion excels, in a feature to feature comparison

looks-eye of the beholder there, but the upperend guns have it imo
This could go either way on this feature as you said


speed-no cap on high end guns, easy to attain speed legally and keep it there (better, smoother trigger system and trigger geometry)
The ion actually has a pretty nice trigger, and with ramping 15BPS is easily obtained


consistent-ion reg is decent, but not like the +-5 fps i get with my dm5 (therefore add mroe money for a reg for the ion)
This is where I thought the Ion would suck - mine out of the box was +/-3 over teh chron, and still is


hype-oh god, this is a tough one. i hyped up $1400 gun or a over hyped $300 gun :confused:
Hmm... there both hyped hard...


stock parts-high end guns have decent regs, barrels, adj feedenecks, and other do hickeys. low end guns have hardly any, if at all, of these features. that is how they keep teh cost down.
I was pretty surprised on the reg as stated - the barrel is as accurate as any honed aluminum tube (actually was surprised, pretty good) and it comes with an o-ring adjustable feedneck. Pretty good for the cheap marker PS I replaced the feedneck with a CCM no-pro, I had ordered before I even saw the Ion. And I would have used this feedneck on any high end marker I bought so replacement of the feedneck would have been done on any marker


size, weight, and comfort-also in the eyes of the beholder. some people want more solid markers, others want it as light as possible.
The ion is pretty solid feeling - at least the few I have tried. It is of reasonable weight, again a preference can go any direction.


This is why the Ion is doing as well as it does, in side by side comparison teh only shortcoming seems to be the 17BPS cap - which who really attains 17BPS on single trigger pull single shot setups anyways? You are right though, I miss some of they hype, some of the looks.

[TheTramp]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the gun whore aspect.

I don't think you'll see a lot of the higher level (not including pro/free gun guys who can't change) tournament players selling their timmys, shockers, trixes, etc to buy Ions. It's the guys who probably spend more time trading guns then playing that are doing this. They'll sell the Ion and spend more as soon as the next new thing comes out after playing with the Ion possible once or twice.

[bound for glory]

imho you can bla bla bla all you want about bps. bps is bs to me...i'm with lohman on this one. lets all remember what 1 second really is. and i shot 2 ions and i would'nt give up my emag for 5 of em. they feel like they were put togeather by monkeys. and i like monkeys ;)

[SlartyBartFast]

if you had the choice between a stock dm5 or an ion, both for free, which would you take?

But that's not the comparison that has to be made.

If somebody is giving out stuff for free any fool would take the most expensive one (unless it was known to be defective).

The comparison is between:
- 1000$ marker

OR

- 300$ marker + 700$ in paint and field fees

If you're not vain, that's one reason not to spend 700$ extra on a marker. 15bps is the top allowed by those rules that caved to ramping markers, so more is pointless (and even 15bps is stupidy expensive to keep up with IMO).

Now you're left with how each feels, whether any differnce in feel is worth 700$, and whether the 1000$ marker is 700$ more durable and reliable than the 300$ marker.

[phantomhitman]

i understand where everyone is coming from. i am playing devils advocate here. the comparison i made between the dm5(any other high end gun) and the ion (any other low end gun) was strictly for the one person that said that there is not a difference in the 2.

i can tell you right now i can walk the trigger (%100 percent legal, no bounce or ramp) on my devilmag faster than my dm5. and i can walk my dm5 faster than an ion. i hate low end guns triggers, trigger geometry, and firing systems (microswitches). they are pure crap imo. while i do agree that most of the mid to high end guns now are capable of the majestic 15 bps some are WAY easier to attain a legal, one shot per pull, speed than others.

everyone forgets that hardly anyone here, or at most practices, and at most tournies, are not in the 15bps capped ramping category. so saying an ion is jsut as fast as a dm5 is not completely true. while you may like it, ill keep my guns. :cheers:

[fire1811]

trend is why people are selling guns.

I hate trends

[ICP]

...

i can tell you right now i can walk the trigger (%100 percent legal, no bounce or ramp) on my devilmag faster than my dm5. and i can walk my dm5 faster than an ion. i hate low end guns triggers, trigger geometry, and firing systems (microswitches). they are pure crap imo ....


While I could care less about who thinks what is better and hype for any gun. I buy what I like and shoot it, till I like something better.

If those timmys,dm5,etc. don't use the "crappy" microswitches to activate the firing sequence, what do they use?



EDIT:::: I guess some use optic sensors, but the devil and timmies use microswitches.

[hitech]

Why is it neccessary for everyon to be a critic of spelling and grammar on the internet.

Well, in general poor spelling and grammer make it harder to read. ;)

[phantomhitman]

um, they use micro switches........
but they also have MUCH SMOOTHER triggers (ex-ball bearing rollers), MUCH better mechanical settings for them (magnets, springs, start and stops that are easily accessbile), and MUCH better electronic control (from debounce, to amb, to trigger sampling) of the trigger system. try walking a stock emag trigger....big and clunky....hard to do.....that is why people buy blade triggers if they want any type of speed out of them. and yes , i know, some people like them just fine. the triggers are also set up for speed (the geometry of them) in my opinion, but that is only if you liek that type of trigger. if you say the ion trigger can be setup just as well as a dm5-devilmag, then you have lost your mind in MY opinion. :tard:
im done with this thread now, everyone have a nice day/night

[guysdaman]

I can't help but jump in here....you have a point about if I could get both for free which would i pick...duh the dm5 of course! But when people have to spend there hard earned cash they want the best bang for there buck and i think the ION provides that...With some mods to the gun it can be very nice! Here is a pic of mine.
http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/21000/ION_rs.JPG
2005 Smart Parts ION
QEV Mod
CP Reg
Q-Lock Feedneck
BetterOne Delrin Scythe Trigger
Hybrid Lady Grips
4500 psi 68 ci Dynaflow attached with a cp rail
.689 Stiffi Barel
Smoke Halo b

I can easily pull 15 bps on this marker without ramping.... :D

The only reason I bought this was to have something to play with while my DevilMag is being built.

[gc82000]

http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/21000/ION_rs.JPG


looks nice to me. :cool:

[93civiccpe]

Hey,
I got to try an ion a couple weeks ago. The ones in all-black don't look quite as plasticy as the bright colored ones. As far as how well it played, it was alright, but I wasn't very fond of the trigger. Did it feel like it was going to fall apart on me?? No. Was I impressed with it?? Well, I would say it is a good buy for 285. Am I selling my cocker or mag to get one? -No. I think a lot of what is happening is that a lot of older players who used to be big-time tourney/team players are now getting in college/getting older and no longer playing teamplay. Whereas it is nice to have an emag/angel/timmy/e-cocker... etc when they can make it to a pick-up or local game, it just seems more cost efficient to sell your gun for 700 or so dollars and buy an ion for 285. Now you have around 400 dollars to spend either on playing or on the other costs that come along with life.

I haven't seen many tournament players selling guns to get an ion. I've seen a few pick them up as backups or fun guns. Very rarely am I seeing people sell upper end guns for next to nothing just to get an ion. Those are usually younger kids who are trying to follow a trend. When you see that happen, get a great deal on an upper end gun and turn around and sell it on ebay. (or pm me so I can.. lol). If i had seen an ebladed cocker go for 300 I'm pretty sure I would have picked it up in a flash. That person was following a trend and being stupid. He should have sold it for around 500, bought an ion and put that extra money to good use.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

[JimmyBeam]

just got my trigger installed last night

http://aientity.com/uo/modules/ipboard/uploads/post-28-1112321236.jpg

[fire1811]

nice
how does the red look? I really didnt like the blue
shot a black and liked it
havent seen a red yet

[JaredMeier]

txaggie you need to slow down and type right......any ways people just see a good, shiney gun for less than there setup so they sale theirs to...be cool, conform, an advantage...im realy not to sure, i see new guns and admire them then relize mines still better :dance:

just wanted to say that I understood txaggie just fine. he didnt spell all of his words correctly, but at least his sentences flowed well, unlike yours.

ben-affcial, i see at least 5 spelling mistakes in YOUR post. :nono:

[SpecialBlend2786]

I'm actually thinking of downgrading to an Ion. Cost-benifit. Sure i dont expect it to perform as well as my my angel or emag, but it looks like the PERFECT backup marker/loaner.

[JimmyBeam]

nice
how does the red look? I really didnt like the blue
shot a black and liked it
havent seen a red yet

killer. i got the aluminum one and not the composite. looks and feels so nice now. feels solid.

[fire1811]

killer. i got the aluminum one and not the composite. looks and feels so nice now. feels solid.
hmm
didnt know they where selling two types
where you get that at?

[JimmyBeam]

hmm
didnt know they where selling two types
where you get that at?

http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=wZAGQH4-hrgGCDxzFv3G6HSYyeFiGtGRsOU=?CategoryName=paintbal l-gun-parts-and-upgrades-smart-parts-gun-upgrades-ion-parts-ion-triggers

[master_alexander]

ok as said before, bps doesent count, much. you marker doesent count (much) either.

Story:

when i was reffing last year my friend (had a dm3 that day) who took off to play was dared by his friends (both had the timmys bought by parents) to play one of them with a rental and rental paint. So he put his gun down and got a rental filled up, and i was the ref, started the game and then the guy with the timmy started to just rip on him. my friend sprinted to the snake and shot about 5 bps on the timmys bunker. ok well this went on for a while until my friend stopped and then ran back and around to the other side. at this point the guy with the timmy was looking and making himself vulnerable. my friend went up the other side and then bang bang, he was out, shot 2 times in the side of the leg.

this story shows that it is not the gun and therefore people save money on just about the same gun. the real thing is you should get a gun fit for you and your style of play.

have fun...

[Lohman446]

LOL.. I was working the field one day, and it was slow. I didn't have my gear with me so I grabbed a rental, put a pod in my back pocket, and walked on. Now I was wearing normal tennis shoes, denim jeans, and a t-shirt. Funny, the first few games.. I was picked last - by the third I wasn't.

[SpecialBlend2786]

LOL.. I was working the field one day, and it was slow. I didn't have my gear with me so I grabbed a rental, put a pod in my back pocket, and walked on. Now I was wearing normal tennis shoes, denim jeans, and a t-shirt. Funny, the first few games.. I was picked last - by the third I wasn't.

haha sweet.

Thats all i ever wear, never really felt the need to buy a jersey and pants.

That stuff is expensive, I'd rather buy paint....


anyway. yeah.