** AO final patch design **

[slushee]

we finally got the design to the stiching company and are currently waiting for it to be set up. Expect about 2-3 weeks for the first of the patches to come off the line.

We will post how to order as soon as they are available. They will go for about 7USD or 11CAD including shipping and handling.

We were thinking about taking paypal orders but our first run will be only 100 (50 of the first design, 50 of the second) and we expect that they will go 'real' fast, so we have decided to take only international money orders. Everyone shouldn't have a problem getting one of those. Once we start a second run, we will probably go with more patches and will then take paypal.

In the mean time, tell us what you think.

[slushee]

:D

[tooslow]

The patch looks great!!!!:D :D :D

Will they be available in yellow?

[PigSweat]

I shotgun 3 of each!

EDIT: Sorry, that sounded bad, it was my way of saying I love both designs.

[ThePatriot]

so we cant just send cash? when they come out i mean...

[damageinc54]

We should have some stickers made also.

[Manuel_FZR]

And what´s about the european Mag User? :( I want such a patch too! :(

[manike]

It would be nice if you could take paypal for us Europeans on AO, Getting a money order for the USA in this country tends to be expensive and an absolute pain in the behind.

manike

[PsychoMag]

Outstanding design!!!! I would like two, One for each of my team jerseys :)

[MidgetFista]

Originally posted by manike
It would be nice if you could take paypal for us Europeans on AO, Getting a money order for the USA in this country tends to be expensive and an absolute pain in the behind.

manike

Tr00 dat!!! its costs loads to get banks to do it, and i dunno anywhere that does western union, so last resort is send cash, which is very dodgy

[Load SM5]

Looks great, but why are the words "Official Automags" and the web address switched around on the yellow patch. I though only the colors would be different.

[snowman]

Great design. You can count on at least 3 from me. :p

[Snappy]

I still think www.automags.org needs to be centered on the blue one, but I want it anyway.

[Dave]

I claim mine right now! What ever one you start making first, I will take it! Just tell us how much for it+shipping( I live in US) and the address, and the money order will be sent as soon as you say you can take them!

-Dave

[Thordic]

I want a yellow one :) Where do I send the money to?

[Xzion]

-"Will they be available in yellow?"
-Perhaps, the blue one we dont plan on making into a complete yellow design, though the yellow patch will be either a yellow or a gold, probably yellow at first.

-"so we cant just send cash? when they come out i mean..."
-I dont have any problems with people sending cash, ill have to discuss it with slushee, but if we do accept cash, but if it doesnt get to us, thats not our problem, with a money order, a person can find out if it was cashed and by who. Also, the shipping we use with sending the patches, will be by regular mail, and unregisterd, and dont take responsibility if they get lost in the mail, if you wish to have the package registerd to esnure it arrives, we can work out the additional cost for you.

-"We should have some stickers made also."
-Stickers was another thing we were considering once we got the patches up and running, as of now most of the costs involved with the patches is coming out of our pocket, and the profit we make on the patches, most of which will be turned around and put back into making more patches and perhaps other AO apparel.

-"And what´s about the european Mag User?"
-Well, we do have a paypal account, that we were intending on using at some point, again, we were trying to avoid getting flooded with orders and minimize the chance of losing orders and such, I dont see why we couldnt make an exception with European AOers at first, but again, this is something Slushee and I will have to discuss.

-"its costs loads to get banks to do it, and i dunno anywhere that does western union"
-US and Canadian Post offices sell Money Orders, if I remember correctly, the US post offices were selling money orders for something like 97 cents, and the canadian is like a couple bucks.

-"why are the words "Official Automags" and the web address switched around on the yellow patch. I though only the colors would be different."
-That one, would be a misunderstanding on my behalf, when talking to Slushee about it, thats how I understood it, but apparently, the stitching company is letting us do both designs without any additional cost, I suppose due to the fact that its such a minor alteration. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

-"I still think www.automags.org needs to be centered on the blue one, but I want it anyway"
-To be honest, I originally thought the EXACT same as you, but we tried it, and found the centerd URL on the blue patch didnt look right and looked MUCH better offcenterd, it even changed my mind, and I didnt like it off centerd to begin with... good thing we tried it first. :D

-"What ever one you start making first, I will take it! Just tell us how much for it+shipping( I live in US) and the address, and the money order will be sent as soon as you say you can take them!"
-We will be making 50 of EACH patch in the first run, which makes 100 patches total, as for pricing, its $7.00 USD and $11.00 CAD both prices INCLUDE shipping via standard mail, as I stated earlier, if you want it shipped registerd, or sent via courier, Im sure we can work out a price for you. As for the shipping address and such, once we have the patches in hand and ready to ship out, we'll post a thread in the MAIN FORUM of AO, so keep your eyes peeled.

Any additional questions or comments are welcome, you can either post in the thread, or send myself or slushee a PM on the forums, Thanx for your intrest, and enthusiasim.

[slushee]

up

[Vegeta]

If you want stickers, just save that image, tehn goto Office Max or Kinko's and buy some sticky back paper for your printer and print some. Works great. Thats how i get all my stickers.

[Xzion]

Originally posted by Vegeta
If you want stickers, just save that image, tehn goto Office Max or Kinko's and buy some sticky back paper for your printer and print some. Works great. Thats how i get all my stickers.

The only problem with that, is they dont take hits very well, with glossy stickers, you can wipe them off without having paint stain the paper.

[Load SM5]

Maybe I can help out with the stickers. I work at a sign shop and make small stickers for myself all the time. I have some good screen printing and digital imagery connections. What kind of quantity are we looking at? I'm guessing hopper sized stickers. Do we want the exact same design as the patches, or something based on them but maybe layed out differently to fit the elongated hopper body better? Let me know if you guys want me poking my nose in this.

[slushee]

thanx for the info! To be honest, we haven't really looked into stickers yet .. but I can't see why we wouldn't get you to do it if your all set up for it.. We'll check into it and keep you informed..

[Xzion]

What Slushee said! :D

[Load SM5]

No problem..just let me know.
I live to serve (that's 2 years of marriage talking)

[Prezents]

Put me down for some

[DarkPhoenix]

I'd like a couple....

[sajohnston]

I posted something similar when you were soliciting feedback on the design-

I have some good connections for embroidery and can get them done cheap and fast. I can ship them from as US post office here in South Korea. I don't want to step on anyone's toes just offering an alternative/support. I am not looking to make any $$$ either, it would be an at-cost thing. I will check on pricing to make sure but won't go any further.

Let me know how you feel

[sajohnston]

I posted something similar when you were soliciting feedback on the design-

I have some good connections for embroidery and can get them done cheap and fast. I can ship them from as US post office here in South Korea. I don't want to step on anyone's toes just offering an alternative/support. I am not looking to make any $$$ either, it would be an at-cost thing. I will check on pricing to make sure but won't go any further.

Let me know how you feel

[Xzion]

Originally posted by sajohnston
I posted something similar when you were soliciting feedback on the design-

I have some good connections for embroidery and can get them done cheap and fast. I can ship them from as US post office here in South Korea. I don't want to step on anyone's toes just offering an alternative/support. I am not looking to make any $$$ either, it would be an at-cost thing. I will check on pricing to make sure but won't go any further.

Let me know how you feel

We had seen your offer before, but we only expect to make/sell several hundred patches, if were lucky, maybe even a thousand, seeing how our first thread, and this thread had/has a great number of views, and only a fraction of posts, which doesnt make having patches made in Korea, shipped all the way back to Canada, then out to the people that want them, we appreciate the offer, it was sort of just a BIG middle man. Becides, we already have a local stitching company setting up our design for production, perhaps if the quality of this stitching company is extremely poor, we'll do further looking around and possibly take you up on your offer.

[sajohnston]

Do you mind if I have my own made or are you guys doing this under license from Tom/AGD or as a profit venture?

Just let me know, the stuff is so cheap I could even have one made for $3 USD.

[slushee]

We do appreciate your offer, but as xzion has stated, we really don't expect to sell more then just a few hundred. I can see you getting some made for 3$US which is close to what ours will be made for, but by the time shipping is thrown in, it will be close to our new selling price which will probably be between $5-$6 USD. Our stiching company has finally given us our costs during the set-up process and it has ended up being a bit cheeper for us to make then originally calculated.

On monday we get to see some design artwork. We'll let you all know how they look! At that point, we should have the samples by the end of the week. It has taken a couple extra day's to get the set-up taken care of due to a funeral I had to attend.

oh, and if you'd like to make your own patches and sell them, all you should have to do is get an OK by Tom Kaye. We wouldn't feel like your stepping on our toes :)

[Xzion]

As Slushee Said, feel free to make your own patches as long as you get Tom Kaye's Ok, the only other thing I feel needs to be said, is that you use your own design, and not duplicate our design in any way shape or form, as it will put a major damper on us, and basically step on our toes with lead boot, thanx and good luck :D

[sajohnston]

Right now I am not looking to mass produce/sell them- the $3 was for ONE patch, if I were to have 100 or more made the price falls drastically. They weigh next to nothing which = minimal shipping charges. Heck I am willing to bet you could even fit one in a first class envelope and throw a $.34 stamp on it to get it to its destination.

I was just looking to give something back to the board, not "ride the wave" of your ingenuity. When I referred to "having mine made" I only meant making ONE as a sample- YOUR DESIGN, FOR YOU to distribute. I am only making things worse by offering my assistance so I will just drop it.

[Xzion]

I fear there may have been a large case of miscommunication along the line somewhere, we got the notion that you were intending to mass produce your design as well, weve already committed to a local stitching company, but its good to know we have an alternate option with you. Both Slushee and I were trying to give back to the forum as well, and any profit made would be going back into the production of more patches, and perhaps other apparel in the future. We greatly appreciate the offer, and if our current stitching company doesnt work out, we'll get back to you.

[shartley]

Xzion


...is that you use your own design, and not duplicate our design in any way shape or form,

Round patch?

Automags.org Logo?

What part do you consider protected in "any way shape or form"?

Seems like the only thing that can not be used is the exact layout you chose to use. Other than that, since the actual patch design uses no elements that you personally designed, you have no legal claim to them. This would make any elements used in your patch open for anyone to use, the same as they were open for you to use.

I am not saying this to cause a problem. But you can not protect anything other than your layout since none of its elements are actually yours, or original to you.

And since sajohnston actually was not talking about mass production (as his post just stated), my addressing that issue has nothing to do with him personally. :) It does however have to do with anyone else in the big world out there that would think of doing the same thing.

Since you openly staked a wide claim on the design, I felt it only proper to mention that the claim you made is not a valid one. I hope noone does try to undercut you, but unfortunately there is not a lot that could be done about it... unless they made the EXACT same patch. It would be a shame for you to think that you have some rights or control over something you simple do not have them for.

Again, this post is NOT to cause problems, but to prevent any.

[pumpamatic]

I think you should put an order limit on the first run. You are only making 100, and some people are talking they want 3 just for themselves. Those babies are really gonna fly, and we want everyone to have a chance of getting one

[sajohnston]

Xion it was just miscommunication- all I ever wanted to do was assist in having [B]YOUR PATCH[B/]design mass produced cheaply [B]FOR YOU[B/]to distribute. No secret agenda, just something I could contribute for my fellow members. I have unit patches, hats, T-shirts, coins, and the like made dirt cheap all the time, this would have been too easy. I am making a stop there tomorrow to have a flight jacket embroidered for my father's Christmas gift, I was going to check on specifics then for you. Best of luck to you guys, I am dropping the subject, I seem to have unintentionally ignited a spark!

[Xzion]

I should have specified more clearly, the layout is what I was referring to, Im sure you would understand how one would feel putting work into doing something like this and have your layout duplicated by someone else, again, stupid miscommunication gets in the way.

And until after I had posed my request that he use his own layout, he had never specified that he was not going to mass produce them, it was moreless an effort to prevent our layout from being cloned so to speak, and as we stated before, we have no problem with other people doing patches, and would hope that they use layouts of their own instead of duplicating what what we had done.

The 'Way Shape and Form' quotation was just intended to be a catch phrase and not a legal statement, we want to keep this friendly and not get anyone upset, so peace everyone? :D

As for liminiting the numbers of patches people can order, we dont find it very practical, especially for those looking to buy multiple patches, it will save us all time and money in the long run. If more patches are needed to supply demand, more will be made, so there will be no shortage, hopefully we'll be ahead of the demand and have more being made before we run out of the first batch, depending on how fast we sell the first batch.

sajohnston; Thanx for understanding and not being upset with us,we really appreciate the gesture, and if things dont work out here, you'll be the first person we contact

[ThePatriot]

I still think the patches with your AO name on them would be cool....keep the design but have names sewn on

[shartley]

Xzion
You did not think I was upset did you? Heck, you should know that I, of all people, would understand you wanting to protect the work you put into something. :D

I just wanted to make sure you did not think your work was protected farther than it actually was. And I can see that you know that.. but did not state that in your post. ;) I would be remiss if I had not point that out.

I don't think anyone is upset... and like I said... certainly not me. So I don't think the "peace" was ever threatened. :) All is well. Clarifications should NEVER cause hard feelings.

[Xzion]

ThePatriot; Having names put on is under consideration, but first were trying to finish the patches weve already started, so give us time, maybe you'll see a customized patch, or embroiderd bar to use in conjunction with the current patches in the future.

shartley; Not at all, Im just trying to clear up any miscommunication, and appreciate your assistence with the clarification. The 'peace' bit was a friendly attempt at humor. :D