PTP pneu and DW hair. Sorry

[ICP]

I don't mean to start any flames or wars between companies. I'm just curious as to what exactly went down, between PTP and DW in ragards to the Pneumatic trigger frames. I read that, DW was working on the Hair trigger, but PTP already had it patented, and stopped any more progress on the hair trigger. Just wondering what the truth is. And if they are really that similar (other than being pneumatic).

PS. this is chrono breaks ;) fault, he brought it up in the thread about the new CF grip from DW.

[mobius]

The last I heard was that Colin (Deadlywind) felt that his design was significantly different enough that it did not infringe on PTP's patent. PTP disagreed. Colin, however, did not wish to allocate the financial resources necessary to the requisite legal proceedings.

[Chronobreak]

PS. this is chrono breaks ;) fault, he brought it up in the thread about the new CF grip from DW.
:wow:

no i diddnt..

:edits post: :ninja:

mobius is correct as far as i know

[ICP]

hmmm, maybe they both can send me a working version to ummm, inspect :p

As long as there is a 45* version I will be happy I suppose. Just wish I could be happy, sooner.

[AnimalMother]

PTP is making the "air" trigger with Brass Eagle now. Don't know when it's coming out, though.

[yakitori]

if you want it that bad, just make your own. It can be done w/ some time and effort.

[rabidchihauhau]

As the writer of the original patent application, I can tell you that there is no way to replicate the action of the PTP trigger system that is not already in the public domain.

LET ME BE CLEAR HERE SO THAT HOTHEADS DON'T GO MISQUOTING ME

There are a few ways to make a responsive trigger that have been displayed publicly, never had a patent applied for and are therefore in the public domain. Those systems all leave something to be desired.

Any other method of accomplishing the same thing, in an efficient, real-world, solid intellectual property manner, is amply covered by the PTP application.

We sweated this concept for almost 4 years, designed tens, if not hundreds, of different ways to go about making it and looked down the road to where people might be in ten+ years before we wrote up that patent. Its tight, its deep, and "its in there"

[Lohman446]

Any other method of accomplishing the same thing, in an efficient, real-world, solid intellectual property manner, is amply covered by the PTP application.
"

Well I beleive that you have this very well covered I hate to see words ANY or NEVER. Sometimes off the wall ideas that noone could have conceived are made to work. I agree with you it may be unlikely (at your word, I have no clue on patent stuff) to find something but I would not agree it was impossible.

[rabidchihauhau]

I never used those words.

No doubt, as technology continues its never-ending march, there will come new and better ways to accomplish similar goals. Perhaps one day we'll even see the 'thought-trigger'.

I was trying to give the general impression that so far as whatever else might be out there now, and within the conceivable life of the patent itself, it is unlikley to develop a method that is not covered by the application.

I'm quite pleased with that application.

[NoForts4Me]

I've been wanting to ask for a while, but didn't due to the "heat" of the whole patent deal at one time. How is Palmer's stuff affected by this? I have a limited understanding of how Palmer's guns work, but I thought the trigger was pneumatic. Am I wrong? If not, based on the "general" drawing in the patent, how did you work around Palmer's prior art?

BTW, I am just curious, not flaming. I am really looking forward to the PTP trigger and plan on upgrading once it comes out.

[PsychoBaller]

You'd think for the greatest good for humanity, companies with similar ideas would join forces to create the best possible whatever they are building. Instead, people just want money money moeny... and thus they suck and shall burn in helz :mad:

[CoolHand]

You'd think for the greatest good for humanity, companies with similar ideas would join forces to create the best possible whatever they are building. Instead, people just want money money moeny... and thus they suck and shall burn in helz :mad:

OK, I'm going to pose a "what if" to you, and you tell me what you think should have been done:

What if, DW wanted to deal with PTP, and PTP was willing to work with them, but DW was totally broke. No capital to invest at all. What do you do then? Just give it to them? Wait, even if you did give it to them, in this scenario, they don't have the capital to do anything with it. So what do you do?

[ApexAZ]

OK, I'm going to pose a "what if" to you, and you tell me what you think should have been done:

What if, DW wanted to deal with PTP, and PTP was willing to work with them, but DW was totally broke. No capital to invest at all. What do you do then? Just give it to them? Wait, even if you did give it to them, in this scenario, they don't have the capital to do anything with it. So what do you do?

You work out a 70/30 deal :)

[CoolHand]

You work out a 70/30 deal :)

But why should PTP do that?

Lets break it down:

PTP already has the technology
PTP would have to front all the money
PTP would have to take care of all the production
PTP would sell them

For that they would get 70% of the profits?

Whereas:

DW would sell them

See the disparity there?

If you want to make a big deal work, you have to bring something to the table. Be it money, production facilities, ideas, etc. From where I sit, DW just didn't have a very strong position to bargin from, so they didn't get a deal. OR, there are other factors behind the scenes that we aren't seeing, and blaming PTP was just the easy way out.

[ApexAZ]

Perhaps DW had a slightly better method of development? Sure it's the same concept but just because they might not have money doesn't mean they couldn't offer something in return.

But I pretty much agree with you though. Money makes the world go around.

[CoolHand]

Perhaps DW had a slightly better method of development? Sure it's the same concept but just because they might not have money doesn't mean they couldn't offer something in return.

But I pretty much agree with you though. Money makes the world go around.

Oh yeah, that is totally possible. I don't know how DW did what they did, its all just speculation on my part. But, on the other hand, it is a fairly good bet that it went down something like that.

I was just trying to point out that there is a very good chance that it wasn't really PTP that quashed DW, but rather some outside influence or mitigating circumstance that blew the deal, or made it unworkable.

Its always the same, the public never gets the whole story, you just have to hope that what you do get it pretty close to the truth.

[ApexAZ]

All I know is I want someone to release it so I can buy one! :)

[rabidchihauhau]

From where I sat, the DW design looked, to me, like an overly complex version of what PTP was already developing.

That's my personal take.

On a side note: businesses are not in business to 'help' other businesses, they are in business to help themselves.

Business partnerships - the ones that last - are created solely on the basis of each having something the other one needs - not charity or good will on the part of one towards another. Even when there is a solid relationship (I manufacture, you distribute) only an idiot believes that their partner isn't looking for a way to improve their end of the deal.

You want to play all nice-nice, no competition, lets all work together - go teach in a Montessori school, but stay out of business, cause sure as s*** happens, someone will come along and eat your lunch.

[Lohman446]

You want to play all nice-nice, no competition, lets all work together - go teach in a Montessori school, but stay out of business, cause sure as s*** happens, someone will come along and eat your lunch.

But come on... it worked so well in the Soviet Union - capitalistic competition is evil you know.