AGD dissapears

[MiniSpdRcr]

AGD dissapears from the D-Day vendors area??

Are they not boing to be there?

http://oklahomadday.com/files/VendorMap.htm

[BD_Paintball]

it does not look like they will be there this year

[Alpha]

AGD only lives becuae of some of the members of this website, and the word of mouth they spread.

[Chronobreak]

AGD only lives becuae of some of the members of this website, and the word of mouth they spread.


sad when agd cant even attend ONE ..infact the LARGEST scenario where there are ALOT of mags

:(

while its not the end of the world just another dissapointment in a long line from agd

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

TK and the group of people on this forum are the only things keeping mags alive and TK is gone. The new prez (worthless is his name i believe) of AGD doesnt seem interested at all in keeping the company going in any positive direction so we are all thats left.

[NoForts4Me]

:(

[CKY_Alliance]

TK and the group of people on this forum are the only things keeping mags alive and TK is gone. The new prez (worthless is his name i believe) of AGD doesnt seem interested at all in keeping the company going in any positive direction so we are all thats left.

I doubt they are just sitting there twidling their thumbs....and letting a good company go to waste.. (then again it's a possibility but an unlikly one) They are prolly making enough money off of RT pros and tacs along with selling the rest of the E-mags to stay alive wether its just barely or with no problem at all.

We can only hope they will come out with something soon to appeaze our appetites.

[mark_1791]

TK and the group of people on this forum are the only things keeping mags alive and TK is gone. The new prez (worthless is his name i believe) of AGD doesnt seem interested at all in keeping the company going in any positive direction so we are all thats left.You make it sound like Zupe is a terrible president and that now AGD is gonna die. Zupe is obviously not a bad person, since he was vice president under Tom Kaye. TK chose him as his vice president.

[Codekevin0403]

ugh that's really sad AGD won't be there...

What happened to our golden company???

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Just face the facts guys, AGD is pretty much already de@d. Theres no point in acting like AGD is doing something when they arent. O yeah, TK was a good prez and everyone liked him, he was great and he kept things goin for his loyal followers but ever since the new guy took over things have gone even more down hill. AGD no longer goes to any events and AGD is becoming less and less known throughout the paintball community. Dont deny it guys, AGD will die unless someting drastic happens to change that.

[Skywalker]

I hate to say AJ is right, but it's true. Unless Jebus comes down from heaven himself and performs another miracle AGD will just keep withering away.

[Chronobreak]

agd hasnt done anything in like 5 years, now the complaining starts?

tippmanns doing fine and they havent changed anything..or as much about as agd has..

if i were to guess i would say mag sales are actualy increasing :D

im sure if agd wanted to attentd these events they could find the funds $, just like they could advertise if they really wanted o.

fact is they just dont think its worthwhile for better or worse

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Skywalker - thank you for agreeing with me. Its not that i dont like AGD but im not gonna act blind to the facts like a lot of others seem to be.

Chronobreak - I know AGD hasnt done anythig in a long time and i know they have been going downhill for a while. Im not really complaining, rather, im just stating the facts. I still believe AGD makes high quality guns and i will continue to believe so even after they whither away. I just wish more people would accept whats goin on. I wish AGD would explode into all the greatness it deserves but its just not going to happen.

[Lohman446]

Its been stated elsewhere, it looks to a lot of people like a long term sell off

TK walks from AGD - keeping the patents (that was never clear) and selling the inventory to the vice president.

Some of the long term employees leave... for whatever reason

There is seemingly no new developments pending, just a slow sell off of inventory and marginal production to support existing products.

Now.. let me put a disclaimer. I do not know AGDs financial situation, where they stand, nor do I have the knowledge o the specificis. I am mearly asserting a theory that may or may not be logical, based on the very limited amount of information I have, that may or may not be correct

[punkncat]

I wish AGD would explode into all the greatness it deserves but its just not going to happen.


You must remember. AGD already had its greatness explosion. Back in the 90's it was one of two markers to own for how long? Now they still sell a quality product, but it is visibly along the same line as what was leading technology 15 years ago.

Its either going to be expand into a new realm and attempt to overcome the stygma, or continue on with whats left, make the best of it and fade away......never know, the grass roots thing thats going on now must be profitable to a point.

[WARPED1]

AGD only lives becuae of some of the members of this website, and the word of mouth they spread.
Yes, too bad really. The TAC was a good idea, just a little pricy for most, not all, scenario ballers.

[TheTramp]

1) I wonder if the Mag will end up like Palmer's guns. A great product but made in small quantities for a nich market.

2) Mag stuff will never go away. Just look at the Tribal for god's sake. You'd think that it would be LONG dead and gone but there are still new products being developed for it.

[shartley]

Some folks need to wake up… the reason AGD is in the position it is in now is NOT because TK left and Zupe did something wrong. The problems AGD is having are not because of Zupe…. he inherited them. It has taken years of not listening to the market and refusing to do what was needed to stay competitive which caused AGD to be in the position they are in now, and guess who was making the decisions all that time?

Anyone who has really watched AGD over the years with realistic eyes (not eyes clouded with zealotism) knows the deal, and knows who was to blame. But to avoid a lynching (or attempted one) I will leave it at that.

[Maggot6]

I hope that they end up like tippmann, the mag as the 98 custom, and the rt pro like a a-5 and the tac one... But that means their costs would have to go down, and they would have to start putting their gun in every other page of newb magazines..

My emag wont die :ninja:

[tippy baller]

all AGD would have 2 do 2 get noticed is do something bold and drastic...i dont mean make a new super fast 200bps marker or somethin like that i mean just start sponsorin pro teams again... if AGD put a lets say X-ball team in and they won in just for arguments sake 3rd place... ppl would b like WOW those really arent bad markers in fact they are really good! its just gonna take effort to pull AGD back into the mainstream....
EDIT: i may be new around here but im not a moron... ive seen similar things happen in other sports... if AGD would start sponsorin top level teams again they would be noticed and ppl would b like i want "So and So's"gun on team "AGD Xtreme"(for example) cuz he mows muppets and i wanna b just like him!

[Lee]

please correct me if i'm wrong (and i'm sure someone will) but, paintball is not all aAGD does.

maybe they are just leaving the paintball market or only continuing with it as is and not worrying about expanding that area of thier buisness.

i don't think AGD as a whole will go away. maybe just the paintball arm of the company.

[WARPED1]

all AGD would have 2 do 2 get noticed is do something bold and drastic...i dont mean make a new super fast 200bps marker or somethin like that i mean just start sponsorin pro teams again... if AGD put a lets say X-ball team in and they won in just for arguments sake 3rd place... ppl would b like WOW those really arent bad markers in fact they are really good! its just gonna take effort to pull AGD back into the mainstream....
EDIT: i may be new around here but im not a moron... ive seen similar things happen in other sports... if AGD would start sponsorin top level teams again they would be noticed and ppl would b like i want "So and So's"gun on team "AGD Xtreme"(for example) cuz he mows muppets and i wanna b just like him!AGD would have to make an electro again. Because the whole mindset of Xball/tourney players is the gun must be electronic and have eyes. No amount of cool videos of Toms tounge or finger in a Mag breach will convince them LX is the way to go. It's just the mindset of "advanced" players.

[Lohman446]

all AGD would have 2 do 2 get noticed is do something bold and drastic...i dont mean make a new super fast 200bps marker or somethin like that i mean just start sponsorin pro teams again... if AGD put a lets say X-ball team in and they won in just for arguments sake 3rd place... ppl would b like WOW those really arent bad markers in fact they are really good! its just gonna take effort to pull AGD back into the mainstream....
EDIT: i may be new around here but im not a moron... ive seen similar things happen in other sports... if AGD would start sponsorin top level teams again they would be noticed and ppl would b like i want "So and So's"gun on team "AGD Xtreme"(for example) cuz he mows muppets and i wanna b just like him!

Wow.. thats like so easy

I mean, we're just going to snag a team capable of winning -hey, we'll just throw one together from members on this board, winning the "big" tournaments is easy

Who won Huntigton Beach? What marker were they using? How about last years Chicago? LA? World Cup? Who placed second and third? What marker where they using? I still am of the opinion that sponsorship of winning teams is overrated in marketing.

What established team, with a track record of winning, are you going to snag away from who? With what capital?

Then... after you do, how much does it matter? I can only tell you what Strange and Dynasty shoot because of politics of paintball... I have no clue what the other "top" teams shoot... nor do I care. Your going to enter an already saturated market... AGD already did this with some good European teams - did it help?

You need a marker that this team will feel comfortable shooting... so your back into the electo market business. THen your going to have to steal a team from one of the "big boys" probably resulting in a cease and desist and render useless order against the markers you just made. So now, in addition to being back into the electro problem you also get to play in the politics of the big leagues.

So... explain to me again how this is so simple and so obvious?

[Lohman446]

AGD would have to make an electro again. Because the whole mindset of Xball/tourney players is the gun must be electronic and have eyes. No amount of cool videos of Toms tounge or finger in a Mag breach will convince them LX is the way to go. It's just the mindset of "advanced" players.

Its also the mindset of a lot of us who have used things that are "just as good as eyes" even if we are not "advanced" players. Level ten, sensei, cops... frankly no they are not as good as eyes. Im going to get flamed for that one, but it is my honest beleif after having used LX and eyes. I'll take eyes any day.

[JKR]

Geesh...some of you guys are a little harsh.

Paintball is youth driven and is mostly marketed as such. There are companies that don't try to market to the latest and greatest "bling-bling crowd" and AGD happens to be one of them. Palmers and Tippmann (to a degree) are two others that don't attempt to bow to the every latest craze and splash their goods all over the magazines (or more accurately, multi-page advertisements.) Therefore everyone pronounces them DOA in the marketplace.

Does anyone here know AGD's unit sales or overall profit margins? Does anyone here know what portion of AGD/Perfect Circle's sales come from paintball? Does anyone know if perhaps a personal emergency prompted AGD from pulling from the OK D-Day event they just missed? Does anyone know what the R&D dept at AGD is up to? No....

Although AGD may not be on the cutting edge of electronic innovation, they still remain the product to beat in mechanical paintball guns. AGD's products appeal to a more mature and experienced crowd that prefers quality over the latest flashy item. If they continue to produce and offer new products to the marketplace (ie the ProClassic) why are you guys complaining so much? If you don't like their product and find it out-dated, find another forum and buy a Timmy or something.

Most people who post here enjoy 'Mags and would like to see them stick around. Do you think that bashing AGD's decisions without any firm data to back them up is good for the future of the company we all love so much?

Just my $0.02.

JKR

[Lohman446]

Although AGD may not be on the cutting edge of electronic innovation, they still remain the product to beat in mechanical paintball guns.

Well I have already noted that very very few of us on these boards have actual insights into AGDs system and our observations were from what we see. I would question this. I would think that Palmer would question this as well... Chipley, and those behind the Evolution 'Cocker as well as some other high end cockers (does SP still make these even?). Do I think they are one of the best mechanicals out there... yes I do. Do I beleive that they are "it" not a bit.

[shartley]

all AGD would have 2 do 2 get noticed is do something bold and drastic...i dont mean make a new super fast 200bps marker or somethin like that i mean just start sponsorin pro teams again... if AGD put a lets say X-ball team in and they won in just for arguments sake 3rd place... ppl would b like WOW those really arent bad markers in fact they are really good! its just gonna take effort to pull AGD back into the mainstream....
EDIT: i may be new around here but im not a moron... ive seen similar things happen in other sports... if AGD would start sponsorin top level teams again they would be noticed and ppl would b like i want "So and So's"gun on team "AGD Xtreme"(for example) cuz he mows muppets and i wanna b just like him!
AGD tried the sponsorship route already. Where did it get them? Deeper in the hole monetarily? Did it really make sales jump to the levels that would indicate a positive ROI? Judging from what I have seen the answer would be a resounding no.

You also don’t just wake up one day and say “I think I will sponsor a Pro level team.” and then just do it. You have to have the budget for it, the time for it, and then find a team that will actually produce for you. This does not even cover another important point…. What marker will they shoot?

Honestly, even if an AGD team WON every event for a complete year I don’t think that will really help them much. What will the team USE? Products that AGD is not making any more? AGD has moved its priority to scenario and rec play and out of “tournament” play (and rightly so since THAT makes up the majority of the paintball market). So why even bother with sponsoring a “tournament” team? That is not their market any more, and honestly I don’t think it was in the first place…. In spite of what AGD wanted.

If AGD was to truly sponsor a team (as in a full ride) they would do better sponsoring a Scenario team which would go to most (if not all) of the major events and play. They would turn it into a true PR tool, not just a “marketing” gimmick… as in not just a team that simply states they are sponsored by AGD. What is involved in the new direction (scenario and rec) is much different than what may work in the glitz and glam of tournament teams and events which rely on a good photo-op and 2 seconds of “fame”.

And AGD has already shown that sponsoring a tournament team (and TEAMS) didn’t save their company…. So why would it NOW? And does anyone actually believe that the average player on the average field even knows who wins or loses the various tournaments anyways? Does the average player even know who AGD sponsors NOW? According to the AGD site they sponsor a hand full of teams already.

I would also bet that most players could not even tell you who was playing in the tournaments around the country as it is, let alone who won them. The average player knows what they see in their local store or field shop (and what they do NOT see). They also know what they see other players using (and what they DON’T see). And they know what they see in magazines (and what they DON’T see). Paintball is not the NBA or NFL…. Not at this point.

And then when you are noticed, you have to have a product that is in the right price range for the market it is designed for… and have enough made to fill the demand. These things have also been a problem for AGD in the past, and I don’t think with even less funds they will be able to do better than they did before. AGD needs to be smart, and put their money where it will do the most good. And this may be why folks don’t see them around as much now at events. It may be more important for them to invest in the business and products at this point than to sponsor a “visible” team or go to a “visible” event.

This is a two edged sword, but anyone who has actually tried to RUN a business knows that it is a sword small businesses have to learn to wield. And if they don’t, they end up getting cut themselves.

Simply put, if you have unlimited funds and resources you can do a whole lot. But when you don’t, you have to pick and choose what you spend your money on and what will bring you the most return on your investment. And sponsoring teams is not the silver bullet some might think it is. There are simply too many variables to consider in the process, and the funds needed to do it right are sizable. The same is with any type of advertising. What will give you the best return on your investment, this magazine, that magazine, that billboard, this TV or radio spot, etc.? They are not all equal and sometimes the best place to put your money is not where most people would think it is. And it also depends on how much money you have to spend in the first place.

Sorry if this was a bit long, but I think folks need to look at all sides of issues. They also need to realize that budgets often dictate what will and will not be done. Who here knows AGD’s budget? What I know is what I have seen over the years and what has progressed, or not. I also know what AGD has failed to do over the years, and the things they have tried and that have also failed (for various reasons). So when a company shoots that “silver bullet”, they need to make sure it is not aimed at their own heads.

[MiniSpdRcr]

The main reason I brought this up...was well bascially they had 2 spots reserved at Oklahom D-Day...when I went to check about new vendors, they were gone. Its sad to see that they DID have a spot in the vendor area (in fact they were the very first vendors to sign up) but now they are missing from the picture. At least one vendor booth would prove valuble to them, at least I think so.

This years game will be the biggest they have ever had...its going to top off at 4000 people. That would be a great area for them to show off their products. Or at least sell whats left of their inventory.

[Lohman446]

The main reason I brought this up...was well bascially they had 2 spots reserved at Oklahom D-Day...when I went to check about new vendors, they were gone. Its sad to see that they DID have a spot in the vendor area (in fact they were the very first vendors to sign up) but now they are missing from the picture. At least one vendor booth would prove valuble to them, at least I think so.

This years game will be the biggest they have ever had...its going to top off at 4000 people. That would be a great area for them to show off their products. Or at least sell whats left of their inventory.

I have to agree here.. AGD took the line about moving hard into the scenario market for awhile.. and then just didn't.

Like this or not, those of us who do not have access to AGDs internal workings and the knowledge that go with it, judge based on what we can see.

This, to some of us, just looks like AGD trying less and less... and why are they not trying?

PS: Yes I agree that TK has other profitable venues, much more so than paintball. However, I don't really care about them unless they were to keep AGD afloat even if it were not profitable.

[Twiek]

Its also the mindset of a lot of us who have used things that are "just as good as eyes" even if we are not "advanced" players. Level ten, sensei, cops... frankly no they are not as good as eyes. Im going to get flamed for that one, but it is my honest beleif after having used LX and eyes. I'll take eyes any day.

You can divide ACS's into two categories, active and passive. LX, 'cockers, anti-chop bolts, etc. are passive systems... Eyes, cops, sensi are active.

Active systems have the advantage of speed. A ball pinch is a shot that could have been taken just a few ms later, but is instead taken a full cycle behind (also, markers with active systems typicly have higher bolt speeds). Pinches also usually deform a ball enough to make the next shot less accurate. However, active systems (namely eyes) aren't foolproof. If somehow paint gets in the breech (breech break or hopper break), you've lost your ACS. Eyes can also go down for other reasons (low battery, bad components, etc). Passive systems, however, always work. A breech full of paint won't make an LX chop. And all current active systems require electronics.

I prefer to have both (for example, an e-bladed 'cocker, or a LX Devilmag), but if I could only have one, I'd probably choose passive. To me, the advantages of a passive system are greater than the minor speed boost active systems impart. Plus, you can always add an active system to a passive system, but it's often difficult (or impossible) to do it the other way around.

But I see where you're coming from :)

[Robbie]

its funny you are starting to see some of the hard core tippmann people switching over to the tac one because the quality has been sucked out of there line of guns. I am NOT FLaming the tippman people this just an observation.
The software is already written for the e/x mag 4.2 exists but will not be released because good conscience. It takes strong character to hold a set of beliefs and not stray because of peer pressure and the allure of fast money.
other companies are now stripping off every bit of quality they put into there guns to increase profit margins. I would rather see AGD do a slow sell off of product than sell out quality.

[Number13]

Thank you, Shartley--for both posts.

[Lee]

Its also the mindset of a lot of us who have used things that are "just as good as eyes" even if we are not "advanced" players. Level ten, sensei, cops... frankly no they are not as good as eyes. Im going to get flamed for that one, but it is my honest beleif after having used LX and eyes. I'll take eyes any day.


i respectfully disagree. i prefer level 10 over eyes myself. i've had far less (read zero) chops w/ all L10's ive used than all the electro break beams i've used.

[Magglerock]

Thank you, Shartley--for both posts.

Yup - Shartley has known what was up for a long time.

[desslock]

I prefer lvl10 over eyes and I love my emag, but if you look at the marketing side of what is happening in paintball AGD is going to drown....Im not a marketing expert so the following are opinions and observations only!

SP and Diablo are now making entry level guns $200ish with eyes and higher rof....there is the tourney market

Saw an ad for new camo 98 tippmans plus Ben Tippman has released his own line of markers. There is the scenerio market.

The last "new" thing from AGD was the tac one body (correct me if Im wrong).

All the upgrades I have done with my mag have been Tuna products and it seems like the only people still making "new" products are 3rd party companies like tuna,logic, devilmag etc.

To stay in the market I would think AGD would have to release new products that appeal to the tourny and scenerio folks at fair prices. Unfortunately it doesnt seem like this is going to happen any time soon.

[WARPED1]

Its also the mindset of a lot of us who have used things that are "just as good as eyes" even if we are not "advanced" players. Level ten, sensei, cops... frankly no they are not as good as eyes. Im going to get flamed for that one, but it is my honest beleif after having used LX and eyes. I'll take eyes any day.
I agree with ya. NOTHING tops eyes.

[gc82000]

I dont care what you use eyes, cops, LX, active or passive systems or a combo of the two. But I want speed and accuacy. We all know AGD quality and customer service is second to none. :clap: So that area is null and does not need to be mentioned.

But most of us can barely shoot, mainly walk a mag at speeds in excess of 9 bps. In rec and scenario that limitation is fine, where first-shot accuracy is more important then all else. But in speedball and tourney ball speed is a much greater priority. I was excited when the anouncement of the Hair trigger was made but we all know what happened there. but when the next great developement is produced I will be there. :cool:

[WARPED1]

I will be there. :cool:
But AGD won't.........................

[Lord_Whoopass]

I love my LX on my mech mags, but when you have something that shoots fast like a devilmag, you will notice that eyes are much better... WHY? because you can shoot faster because of the fact that you wont be "Chuffing" and missing shots, the eyes just delay it...