what would u rather have ? a5 or mag ?

[Soopa Villain17]

im in a argument with my friend , and i no im right , what is a better gun for woodsball ? a a5 or a ule x valve level 10 mag ? he seems to think agd has only been around for a few years and is horrible quality , but when i got my first mag he had never heard of agd , he thinks tippmanns r really so much better , prove him worng and me right , thanks

[MonsterMag]

Mag

[AGD202]

i won an A-5 at my local field... i turned around and sold it back in 2 days... they suck compaired to a mag

[kurama]

AGD has been around for a VERY long time. And they've very high quality. Just look at the crazy tolerances used in mags. Basically, the Mag will have a lighter trigger pull if ULT'd, or a responsive trigger without becoming a gas hog without ULT. Also, it will look better, weigh less, and be more reliable internally. Oh, and its field strippable unlike the A5 which requires the removal of about 5 pins to take it apart.

A5's aren't bad marker, but it doesn't compare to a mag. I could bet you'd get a similar answer to mine anywhere you ask, even on the tippmann owners site.

[jenarelJAM]

let me ask you this, if mags were undoubtably better for the price, why wouldn't everyone buy them over tippman a-5's? and i see alot of A-5's at my field. however, i would have to say that i'd prefer the mag personally because of reliablility, ease of maintenance, and kickass-ness.

[CKY_Alliance]

This is going to be such a Bias poll.

Any way i would rather have a mag becasue they are much lighter and more compact.Also they are very reliable.
Although the tippman is reliable it is heavier then my SS mag and not field stipable like my mag.One benefit to the A-5 is you dont have to worry about chops..but then again there is the LVL10 for mags,even though it can be a bit of a pain somtimes it's nothing , major.
Another benefit to the mag is it is soooo upgradable you get so many options.Theres not to many upgrades for a A-5.
A mag you can make look good and still have a fast reliable gun.The A-5,wel to me you cant make them look good but thats opinion.Ive also heard that tippmans quality has decreased slightly.I dotn know how true this is.

Ive shot both and i prefer the mag mainly becasue i know how to fix i and it is small/compact light and fast.Also the (pricy) but nice upgrades you can get.

[AGD202]

every1 buys a-5's cuz a lot of the people play rec. and they probably have not heard of a mag because you dont see too many at fields anymore


and tippmann is kind of known for rec play... but im not saying that their pro series 98's are not good for a tourny cuz my friends team uses them and just came in 1st place

[atm743]

really for woodsball a classic mag ( like minimag or automag) with level 10 and a tac-one body whould be good

you dont really need the x vavle unless you want the lightness and fast shooting but really do you really need to shoot fast in woods??

thats why i bought my rt pro :D 200 bucks and has an intelliframe rt pro valve with level 10.

i was going to get a classic but i though 200 for rt mag is a good deal

the a5-s are nice as well but they are a bit bulky and if you are in the woods i dont think they will be good.

one + for the a-5 in the woods would that it can have a flatline for long shoots

but really ill go mag for the small size for hiding by trees and its jest a mag :D what more can i say

[Jakedubbleya]

Are you serious?

I dont even own a mag, but comparing one to a glorified tippman 98 with spin-feed? guffah!

BTW everybody buys A-5's over mags because mags have only recently become affordable, everybody still thinks of them as 500+ guns. On the other hand tippman has posted 50 ads in every 100 page paintball magazine sells their guns in virtually every store and has sold low-performance high durability guns for eons.

Besides they are ugly and loud :p

(lets see them stand up to the ion tho hahahaha)

[cdacda13]

Mag, I owe a tippmann (98c) and its a great gun, but it can't compare to a mag.

[Chronobreak]

tac one hands down

tippmanns are great guns in their own respects but i would have to reccomend a m98 with rt before an a-5 those feed sytems suck and get hit ALOT!

[Soopa Villain17]

36 to 2 , i win!

[AnimalMother]

Tell your stupid friend that AGD's been around since the 80s, and only one of three companies that are still around from that era. I doubt Tippmann's one of them.

[Soopa Villain17]

thats wut i did tell him , when i got my first mag he told me he never heard of an "automag" and they were nothing like his a5 , i told him they were alot better and told him about them , he still thinks his a5 is better cuz its full auto, he is pretty dumb , i think i should no about paintball , ive been playing for 6 years, he thinks he knows alot but he claims that tournies dont allow hpa, they only accpet co2 only he claims witch i no is bs , and says that his tippmann is alot more versatile because he can run co2 or hpa witch is true but when your using a gun with c02 they dont perform as well as cthwey would with hpa , when i talk to him again ill send him this link and prove that he is dumb and nos nothing about paintball ,thanks for the help guys :)

[TheTramp]

I've got both. I use the Mag (E-Mag) most of the time but I've got the A-5 for the times when CO2 is the only thing I can get. Of course that doesn't happen very often.

[AnimalMother]

I've got both. I use the Mag (E-Mag) most of the time but I've got the A-5 for the times when CO2 is the only thing I can get. Of course that doesn't happen very often.


Yeah, I guess that will be something a Tippmann will always have over a Mag, it can use CO2. :hail: Gotta give 'em props for being so technologically advanced.

[Soopa Villain17]

ahahaha

[TheTramp]

Gotta give 'em props for being so technologically advanced.

That's right versatility is a stupid idea. :rolleyes:

[Little_Ho]

Hi

my first Marker was a A5 with E-Gripp. Dont get me wrong but i liked it. No trouble and ok (at that time) for me.
I started out to shoot a Mag from a Friend of mine. And I liked all about the Mag from the first Touching it. After that i was reading alot and decided i get one.

Well long story short....i have 3 very well Shooting Mags plus 2 almost done.
I also have a B2K4 and a VF Tactical. But I mainly shoot the Mag because is a reliable fast shooting Marker.....

Little_Ho

[HarrysSon]

Automag totally outmatches Tippmann. :shooting: :shooting:

[PumpPlayer]

Tell your stupid friend that AGD's been around since the 80s, and only one of three companies that are still around from that era. I doubt Tippmann's one of them.

*Ahem* Actually they are... Tippmann made one of the first semi-autos and the first full-auto long before AGD ever started manufacturing markers at all. They developed the basis and configuration for every blowback-style marker since then (hammer linked to bolt, bolt hits valve and fires gas in two directions to both fire and recock). Tippmann is one of the longest-standing companies out there and certainly more than three have survived since the 80's. Palmer's, WGP, and CCI just to name a few and there are plenty more.

We're talking apples and oranges, here. 'Mags are high performance and rugged and designed to be so. Tippmanns are designed with beginers in mind and are virtually indestructible. Moreover, Tippmanns have easily the best performance of any blowback-style marker out there.

I won't go into specific pros and cons of each, but keep in mind that we're debating two systems that were designed completely differently. You can't really choose a "best" except based on personal opinion. Now, I believe the original question was, "Which marker is better for woodsball?" This can be answered based on fact. The only factor is your playing style. If you play fast and aggressive and need the light weight and fast firing of the 'mag, then that's your choice any day. But keep in mind that the A-5 was designed for woodsball, works well for woodsball and is really hard to beat for woodsball. Especially in the price range.

I love AGD - their products are fantastic. However, Tippmanns have different appeal and I love them too. My advice is to stop arguing and just play over it. Besides, you'll never convince each other who is "right". Though both of you could use a dab of history...

[Jakedubbleya]

Moreover, Tippmanns have easily the best performance of any blowback-style marker out there.


?what is it exactly that makes them perform to a superior degree as compared to a spyder/pirahna etc.?

[MadPSIence]

Right now.. for me. Unless it's a custom hyperframed electro mag then I'd rather have an A-5 E. I am actually switching to one when my mag is sold. Having an electronic mag is too expensive.. I can have an electro A-5 for 220 + 99 and from there, there are a few mods I would add being comp air, RVA, spring kit, good reg, and some other minor stuff but in the end it's a hella good gun.

Simply put.. a mag and an A-5 are probably equally reliable. Mags.. for the most part are built of extremely high quality. A-5's .. may be a little cheap in their shells but are very sturdy and respectable guns. The problem with mags is that they have lost their popularity and cannot even compete with other guns in terms of pricing. A basic custom mag will cost you about 440 bucks without any barrel or anything and that's just because Rogue has awesome prices. Mine cost me 600 dollars before I modified it or had a barrel kit.

A maxxed out A-5 will run you under 500 if you shop smart. By maxxed out I mean 15bps electro low pressure goodness. An electronic mag performing at that level will be.. well a hyperframe or X-Mag.. or devilmag. top dollar.

So in the end.. well.. I'd say the 2 are damn good and I can't find any reason to pick one over the other except PRICE.

[PumpPlayer]

?what is it exactly that makes them perform to a superior degree as compared to a spyder/pirahna etc.?
Quite simple: Superior parts and construction.

But I think what you're really asking is: "On what basis can I claim that Tippmanns perform better than spyders?" To that I can only say this: Pick up a spyder, no paint, no air. Look at it, turn it over, dry fire it a few times. Feel the trigger wobble and feel how uneven the pull is. Hear the grinding of sliding parts and the *ping* of the valve. Now pick up a Tippmann and do the same thing. Notice that the trigger is rigid but smooth and that the action is tight and doesn't wobble. The Tippmann bolt has a nice *shlunk* to the valve and the parts are better protected and with a better fit. Of course, I am talking about two bone-stock markers between which the price varies considerably (up to 100%).

When you fire it, the Tippmann has a natural *point* to it and stays on target easily. The spyder is unballanced and drifts more readily. The Tippmann is ergonomically correct and feels good to shoot whereas the Spyder is just a blob of aluminum bolted to a pistol grip.

The valve system of Tippmanns is also somewhat more consistent and provides closer shot-to-shot velocities. This doesn't make it more accurate, just more consistent. Consistency coupled with an ease of aiming, the average new player will find that the Tippmann is more 'accurate', though this has only to do with being easier to fire.

Do you want to talk rate of fire? Let's not. Why? Because the rate of fire on both markers is limired by the trigger system and therefore moot. Sure we can get an e-grip to solve the problem, but that's not what we're talking about. People hear the word "performance" and they think "rate of fire". They're not the same. People are excited about Ions because they can shoot 18 bps. So what? There's more to performance than ROF. Tippmanns are the best of the best when it comes to semi- blowbacks because they are easy to shoot, consistent, reliable and smooth as compared with almost everything else out there. That's exactly why in this time of electro-driven speed markers, Tippmann can justify a $200+ blowback marker - because it really is worth it.

Don't get me wrong, adjusted for price they're the same... but in this case, you get what you pay for and qualitatively, Tippmanns far surpass the spyders that are out there.

[sbpyro]

I'd say the mag
but add a siphon tube on a tippmann
and run it on liquid co 2 in the winter :)
My first gun was a tippmann 68 carbine (recently broken :()
Then I went up to a mag.
I find that both guns are reliable but the mag is so much easier to maintain.

[Lupis Fidelis]

This has to be one of the dumbest arguements ever. There's no question an Automag is FAR supierior to an A5. The A5 relies upon uneducated buyers and gimics. The "Flatline" in my opinion is bogus because the balls always bounce at extended range. The cyclone feed system in itself is a flaw in that if the hopper or feed system breaks, your gun is out for the count. An A5 with all the bells and whistles(Nitro, Flatline ect.) weighs so much the owners are embarassed to let others even hold it.

Tippmann A5= Entry level
Automag= serious player

[TheTramp]

....People hear the word "performance" and they think "rate of fire". They're not the same....There's more to performance than ROF....

Very well put!

[TheTramp]

An A5 with all the bells and whistles(Nitro, Flatline ect.) weighs so much the owners are embarassed to let others even hold it.


I'm an owner and am in no way "embarrassed to let others even hold it." It's really a shame that you're so unable to appreciate something other than what you own or wish you could own.

[Jakedubbleya]

what, about such a simple and similar valve system, would make it more consitant?

Ive done a bit of work at one of our local fields, we have a mix of pro carbines 98 customs and spyder compacts. The tippies break down just as much as the compacts, although the compacts do require a bit more maintenance. Most kids who rent prefer to rent the compacts.

Ive gone through many spyders in my time (im an upgrade/tinker freak) and yes, the newer spyders feel very "loose". Thats why i recommend other brands/spyder clones, specifically the Bob Long Spyder/millenium if you can get a hold of one. That puppy would rival a tippie any day.

I believe its mostly personal preferance, i dont buy any of that super-tippman bs, if you take decent care of a spyder clone it wil last just as long and perform just as well.

Spyder is just a blob of aluminum glued to a frame? I could say the same thing about bushies, imps, mags, etc. That ergo stuff has nothign to do with performance, personally i cant stand that rifle feel the tippman has, it literally messes up my snap shooting.

Imo, tippies are ugly, loud, a pain to upgrade, and their trigger mech's are all horrible. Oh, and over-priced unless you really need a gun that doesnt care if you dont take care of it, which is fine.

[Lohman446]

Tell your stupid friend that AGD's been around since the 80s, and only one of three companies that are still around from that era. I doubt Tippmann's one of them.


As has been pointed out, when comparing longevity in the past (and for that matter the likelihood of existing in five years if judged from a consumer only standpoint) yout may want to do a little research before calling anyone stupid, st.... ok, I won't go there :D

[Jakedubbleya]

And as an afterthought, give me around HALF the money you saved by buying a Spyder Xtra (http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=-pTuuPXv2Wruibee4c0uEP9J8rkrcW7tlAc=?ProductID=ABPA qArb9%2eoAAAEC7QXjnsvk) instead of a Pro Basic (http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=-pTuuPXv2Wruibee4c0uEP9J8rkrcW7tlAc=?ProductID=4avA qArbU3wAAAECU0AmO6zl#) and a few simple household tools(wire cutters, 2 drill bits, plyers, candle) and i will make your spyder/clone 80% more efficient than it was (at least), quiet, seldom chopping (using healthy paint you will only pinch the ball), low pressure, and as consistant as the 50$ regulator i bought for it. All without harming the general reliability of the gun, and any of these mods can be done at home by anyone in around 5 hrs.

Like, take your pick. 160$ "hardy" blowback, or 100$ regulated, low pressure blowback.

[Lohman446]

This has to be one of the dumbest arguements ever. There's no question an Automag is FAR supierior to an A5. The A5 relies upon uneducated buyers and gimics. The "Flatline" in my opinion is bogus because the balls always bounce at extended range. The cyclone feed system in itself is a flaw in that if the hopper or feed system breaks, your gun is out for the count. An A5 with all the bells and whistles(Nitro, Flatline ect.) weighs so much the owners are embarassed to let others even hold it.

Tippmann A5= Entry level
Automag= serious player

Define serious player please.

[Jack & Coke]

What are you going to use as a propellant?

HPA or CO2?

For HPA, probably a mag...

However, if I decided to use CO2, I would definately choose an A-5 over a mag.

[peewee]

Having owned both my preference is the automag. Both guns are top of the food chain for woods ball the mag gets the nod for speed ball before the A5 for the sleek small design.

MadPSIence I disagree about mags loosing their popularity in this current time frame. Mags fell out of favor a few years ago & as of late have made a turn around. I see more & more when I go play. But lets face it Tippmann ownes woodsball.

[68magOwner]

...mag isnt 20ft long

[MadPSIence]

about A-5's being just for uneducated newbs and being only entry level..

eff off. i'm selling my mag FOR an A-5.

[tipp-ed off]

about A-5's being just for uneducated newbs and being only entry level..

eff off. i'm selling my mag FOR an A-5.

You don't have a clue of whats going on, do you? Don't blame the Mag for your mishaps. Work on your skillz as a paintballer first. :shooting:

[Lohman446]

You don't have a clue of whats going on, do you? Don't blame the Mag for your mishaps. Work on your skillz as a paintballer first. :shooting:


YOu do note in most of this thread people were arguing the merits of hte marker... when someone makes an attempt to argue that the merits of the marker may favor the Tippman (not making a judgement on this myself) the defense is "marker doesn't matter, its the skill". Nice argument if you don't beleive your marker can compete with others on its merits (though not saying here is the case). It also seems to be the argument when comparing mags to superguns of today.

[shorty24]

I'd have to go with mags - small, fast, etc. I don't think reliability is much of an issue, as both the mag and tippy are virtually indestructable (seriously, my friend actually backed both wheels of his car over his tippy on accident, and the only damage was some scratches). The tippy is FAR cheaper, and for woodsball is an incredible gun. Don't get me wrong, I love my mag, but you HAVE to respect the tippy for what it is...I mean, seriously, is there anyone out there who started paintball in the woods with a couple friends who hasn't been wasted by a tippy? One thing, tho - I never did like the rifle feel of the 98c, and we won't even talk about it's fieldstrippability...first time I worked on one, I got the two halves disassembled, and promptly got shot in the eye with a spring. Several other pieces rolled off the table onto the floor, and haven't been seen since... But hey, it still worked when I finally got it back together. A5 imo is restricted by its feeding mechanism - and it would have helped to make the internal parts of the mechanism out of aluminum or something. The plastic ratchet in the feedneck is one of the first things to break on almost every A5 I've seen.

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

This has to be one of the dumbest arguements ever. There's no question an Automag is FAR supierior to an A5. The A5 relies upon uneducated buyers and gimics. The "Flatline" in my opinion is bogus because the balls always bounce at extended range. The cyclone feed system in itself is a flaw in that if the hopper or feed system breaks, your gun is out for the count. An A5 with all the bells and whistles(Nitro, Flatline ect.) weighs so much the owners are embarassed to let others even hold it.

Tippmann A5= Entry level
Automag= serious player


Wow , I guess your a SERIOUS player. :hail: -- I happen to be a Tac One owner who started with a Pro/Carbine AND still shoots the A5. No flaming here, but if the people of whom you come across have a problem holding the "big and heavy" Tippmann --- maybe they should go lift some weights. Maybe start with 5 lb arm curls. If you make statements that buyers of A5 are "uneducated" , I assume and hope you mean uneducated in the ways of paintball gear - Right?

The A5 is the ONLY quality marker that has the look and feel and upgrades that other so called mil sim markers promise, but do not deliver. The A5 is heavier sure, but try falling on top of some lesser marker as you attack a snow and ice covered position, then only to get up and continue the assault without issue -- doubt MANY other brands could handle that kind of abuse. I've put over 20,000 rounds through my cyclone feed without any failure. The problem with the A5 is mostly surrounding the E Grip, simply because its not upto the durablity of the rest of the gun. They should "can it" for a better design. Its peolple that value high ROF the made the E Grip a hot seller. But Tippmann should have put more R&D into it. Just for the record, if owners of A5's are embarrased so much, why do they sell so many? And it isn't just good marketing. The A5 built is name and Rep from providing tank like reliability and above average accuracy for a modest price. If gimmicks were the only reason for its success, the word would get around real quick.

I'm glad you like your AGD "investments" -- I wouldn't own one if I didn't believe in the product as well. But I think jabbing other people to make YOUR point is acting like you're UNEDUCATED.

HLD...

By the way --- I still can GOG so called "experts" carrying 40 bps wunder guns with my Pro/Carbine shooting a blazing 3 bps. I don't think the Tac One makes me a better player. The Tac One just makes me a satisfied AGD owner.

[VFX_Fenix]

Well... it all depends on what I'm out to do, but most of the time I'll reach for my E-Mag before my A-5 just because of the style of ball I usually end up playing. In the woods though, there's nothing like that 37" piece of aluminum and plastic that I call my A-5 :shooting: :ninja:

[Wheelman]

Chris, I can't belive you're having a petty argument with a kid who's paintball experience doen't extend past isle 10 at Wal*Mart. I guess I'll have to bring my gear over sometime and we can prove a point.

While the A-5 isn't a bad gun, I'd still have to ditch it for a pro carbine if I could only run CO2 (but then again, classic valves can run CO2 also :confused: )

[UTDragun]

Quite simple: Superior parts and construction.

But I think what you're really asking is: "On what basis can I claim that Tippmanns perform better than spyders?" To that I can only say this: Pick up a spyder, no paint, no air. Look at it, turn it over, dry fire it a few times. Feel the trigger wobble and feel how uneven the pull is. Hear the grinding of sliding parts and the *ping* of the valve. Now pick up a Tippmann and do the same thing. Notice that the trigger is rigid but smooth and that the action is tight and doesn't wobble. The Tippmann bolt has a nice *shlunk* to the valve and the parts are better protected and with a better fit. Of course, I am talking about two bone-stock markers between which the price varies considerably (up to 100%).

When you fire it, the Tippmann has a natural *point* to it and stays on target easily. The spyder is unballanced and drifts more readily. The Tippmann is ergonomically correct and feels good to shoot whereas the Spyder is just a blob of aluminum bolted to a pistol grip.

The valve system of Tippmanns is also somewhat more consistent and provides closer shot-to-shot velocities. This doesn't make it more accurate, just more consistent. Consistency coupled with an ease of aiming, the average new player will find that the Tippmann is more 'accurate', though this has only to do with being easier to fire.

Do you want to talk rate of fire? Let's not. Why? Because the rate of fire on both markers is limired by the trigger system and therefore moot. Sure we can get an e-grip to solve the problem, but that's not what we're talking about. People hear the word "performance" and they think "rate of fire". They're not the same. People are excited about Ions because they can shoot 18 bps. So what? There's more to performance than ROF. Tippmanns are the best of the best when it comes to semi- blowbacks because they are easy to shoot, consistent, reliable and smooth as compared with almost everything else out there. That's exactly why in this time of electro-driven speed markers, Tippmann can justify a $200+ blowback marker - because it really is worth it.

Don't get me wrong, adjusted for price they're the same... but in this case, you get what you pay for and qualitatively, Tippmanns far surpass the spyders that are out there.
except your custmized a5 with those upgrades would be closer to 600
get a used emag for 600
id even get a top of the line spyder before an a5

[UTDragun]

While the A-5 isn't a bad gun, I'd still have to ditch it for a pro carbine if I could only run CO2
i agree

[Jack & Coke]

While the A-5 isn't a bad gun, I'd still have to ditch it for a pro carbine if I could only run CO2 (but then again, classic valves can run CO2 also :confused: )

Yes, mag classic valve "can" use CO2... but you better not shoot too fast, and be sure not to get any liquid CO2 in the valve! If you do, the mag valve will freeze up.

The Tippy CVX valve is far less temperamental than the mag valve when it comes to a steady diet of CO2 gas or CO2 liquid. You must to take extra precautions when trying to use CO2 in a mag valve just to get it to work consistantly (best results are with a vert bottle or remote setup).



(regarding A-5 vs Pro-Carbine)

i agree..



i disagee.

IMO, the A-5 is superior to the Pro-carbine:


A-5 has a great built-in feeding system. The Cyclone Feed System practically eliminates any chance of chopping. Pro-carbine does not come with a built in feeding system, and it WILL chop more often (due to inconsistant feeding).
A-5 can be easily upgraded to E-grip or Response Trigger System
Very easy to clean and maintain with its no tool field strip feature.
A-5 rated 15+bps, Pro-Carbine rated only 7bps (per Tippmann website)

[Wheelman]

Who gives a damn about rate of fire when you're sittin' in the woods? The pro carbine is one of thse (like the mag) that is awsome for what it is, doesn't need hundereds of dollars in upgrades. But like everything it's all personal preference. I think the whole rate of fire thing has gotten out of hand anyway, too many people judge a marker by how fast it says you can shoot, instead of how well it is built. I have own'ed several tippmans and several mags, I can't say as I am real impressed with the a5, just doesn't have the feel of a Tippmann (the tippmann that I remember anyway) I used to get one hell of an upper body workout with my old 98's. Which are great once you upgrade the hell out of them, but you get what you pay for.


I knew the classic valve could run CO2 (and what needed to be done to use it) I should have put the :confused: outside the perenthises to show that it would be a difficult choice rather than looking like I wasn't sure

[TheTramp]

id even get a top of the line spyder before an a5

Wow. All I can really say is that I guess everyone has their prefrences.

[JackRock]

This has to be one of the dumbest arguements ever. There's no question an Automag is FAR supierior to an A5. The A5 relies upon uneducated buyers and gimics. The "Flatline" in my opinion is bogus because the balls always bounce at extended range. The cyclone feed system in itself is a flaw in that if the hopper or feed system breaks, your gun is out for the count. An A5 with all the bells and whistles(Nitro, Flatline ect.) weighs so much the owners are embarassed to let others even hold it.

Tippmann A5= Entry level
Automag= serious player


Not sure if I should be insulted or try to get this post "America's Funniest Forum Posts".

I own both an automag and an A5. I have used both extensively. And I use my A5 nowadays far more than my 'Mag. So, let's go over the above post step by step.

1. Uneducated buyers and gimmicks - That's calling most of the paintballing world stupid. The A5 itself is one of the most reliable markers on the market today. While, true, it wouldn't hold up to the performance of a 'Mag, it will keep shooting in circumstances when a mag would have long since died its last death.

2. Flatline balls bouncing - Get better paint. Mine break regularly, even at extended ranges.

3. Cyclone/Hopper breaks, and it's over for the marker - This is true for any marker unless you have a spare hopper. It's easy enough to get a spare or upgrade to an R5. What happens when a Halo or Egg hopper's motor fails? It's just as likely to fail as a Cyclone, and also has the added issue of requiring batteries which run out.

4. Owners embarrassed - Who have you been asking? Yes, my marker weighs more than some do. But last I checked, the game was called "Paintball", not "Let's see who has the lightest marker". Grow some arm strength. Carrying an A5 is nothing compared to carrying around an M16A2, which is considered light for weapons. Try carrying an M240B at 25+ pounds.

So am I embarrassed? Hell no. I'm proud of the consistency, durability, reliability, accuracy and range I get out of my flatlined A5. Am I undereducated? I doubt after 12 years of playing with nearly every type of marker out there at some point or another.

This poll is biased beyond belief, given that it's given on a site that is specifically dedicated to one of the choices. If you posted this on a tippmann site or the A5 Owner's Group, you'd get the exact reverse answer. Most of my team uses A5s. None use automags as their primary. Think about that.

[jenarelJAM]

3. Cyclone/Hopper breaks, and it's over for the marker - This is true for any marker unless you have a spare hopper. It's easy enough to get a spare or upgrade to an R5. What happens when a Halo or Egg hopper's motor fails? It's just as likely to fail as a Cyclone, and also has the added issue of requiring batteries which run out.

GET A QLOADER
1. no batteries
2. "hopper breaks" and you stick in a new pod, take the old one and set it aside for the rest of the day, fix it later. problem solved.
3. fast as heck, never worry about ball chops/misfeeds etc.
4. lowers profile quite a bit.

i just posted that becasue i thought it was funny how it deosnt have any of the problems you just mentioned about other hoppers.

as far as the mag vs. a-5 debate:
A-5 is a great gun with some particular advantages towards woodsball, but if we take away the *illegal* RT and e-grip, it is a bulky, slow pea shooter. it fires far(courtesy of the flatline) and accurately, and it doesn't have many problems. However, the mag has a few advantages which i think are more worthwhile. first, the mag is a blowforward marker, and when it runs out of air, it doesn't start bouncing the bolt back and forth like crazy, occasionally chopping a ball. thats a little issue however. the mag too requires almost no maintenance at all. the mag can be field stripped by taking out one thumb screw and pulling out the valve. additionally, the entire mechanism for shooting the gun is housed int he valve/bolt combo. the rest of the gun is amazingly simple, requiring only a sear to be pulled. this makes it alot easier to spot the few tech prooblems that come up. the mag has the lvl10 bolt, which almost completely eliminates chopping, and it can be installed on the cheapest AGD marker. its like the flatline fits on the A-5, but requires modification before it can be installed on the other tippman markers. the lxl 10 is a drop in upgrade for ANY AGD marker. almost all of the AGD and assorted dealers are compatible with any other product. the automag has been around for as long as paintball has never needed to evolve. the higher end mags(rt pro, emag, xmag, sfl) are all based on the original design(not including electronics and triggers) then there is the bulkiness issue. it might be argued that if you cant lift the A-5, you need to get more muscle, but i would prefer a smaller gun personally, because it is less likely to get hit. i decided to not buy into the whole lightness hype when i bought my marker, and i got the emag witht he big battery pack on the front, but i noticed that the mainbody has only a single bore(compared to almost any other marker that has two or more bores with valves etc.) and is therefore shorter. that means less area to hit on your gun. the A-5 may shoot accurately compared to a spyder, but compared to a mag, i believe they are both made with enough quality control to be of comparable accuracy. i know that i was amazed at my friends 98c shooting darts with the stock 8" barrel when i had my 14" teardrop'd spyder, but when using my mag, i shoot and hit where i am aiming 99% of the time(not including the fact that paintballs are inacurate themselves). i would give tippmans credit for being able to use a siphon tube in the winter to make co2 more consistant. i dont think most people find that using precautions for co2 int heir classic valves is much of a problem though, and if accuracy/consistancy are really important to you, hpa would inprove the performance of either gun.
conclusion: i believe that when people buy guns, they generally put some time and efort into thinking baout hwat they want and what would be best for them. they might not notice mags because AGD doesn't advertise, but a lot of people still chose A-5's over the rest of the crop. this shows that A-5's are specifically suited to a large majority of individuals. then there are mags, where the owners proudly get bashed at every opportunity on pbnation, and still have company loyalty to AGD for their great products. this shows how well built and special mags are, and how satisfied buyers are with their products. all in all, (and i know it has been said so many times, i am sick of it myself) it really depends on the person buying it whether they want the A-5 or the mag, because both are great guns, and both have their unique advantages.

[Wheelman]

.....The A5 itself is one of the most reliable markers on the market today. While, true, it wouldn't hold up to the performance of a 'Mag, it will keep shooting in circumstances when a mag would have long since died its last death.

okay, name one?

[shartley]

okay, name one?
Running straight CO2 into it. :wow:

(Unless it was a classic Mag.)

;)

[Food Rules]

I actually played with an A-5 while getting money to buy a mag. I hated it!!!!! It broke too much paint. Ever since I used my mag I have never broken a ball.
MAGS RULE WITH AN IRON FIST!!!! :dance: :dance:

[overkill8000]

tac one hands down

tippmanns are great guns in their own respects but i would have to reccomend a m98 with rt before an a-5 those feed sytems suck and get hit ALOT!


i got one and have never had a hopper problem i have a rt and never out ran the hopper or chopped as for hit they do take hits but usally if it hits there you were gonna get hit anyways

secondly your on a mag site its not really a no brainer but mags were gonna be choosen hands down 20 1 but go to a tippy site and it will be a diff story :mad:

[Chronobreak]

fact is if your shooting out the right side thats another 3" x 2" that can be hit and you cant hide...FACT, and if its out further than you chances are you would not have gotten hit there.

if you thing a tippy is better than a mag your kidding yourself...

each gun has its own strengths and weaknesses and your fine with either one and theyr my two most fav guns out of EVERYTHING,yes angels,dm4 ,timmy, w/e

ide expect a little biased from the owners group forum but for the msot part if you read all those post there is little to none... :cool:

its about preferance mainly and what you want/need.

i would rather pay more for a nisce low profile stock mag w/vert feed low weight etc etc

if i couldnt afford nitro or needed alot of shots then a tippmann is the way to go.
but i dont like the feed systems(side feed) and the triggerpull is very clunky.

if the choice was btwn a classic mag and m98..stock die go with the m98, if i could add w/e ups i wanted i would go with the mag.

[overkill8000]

i would rather have a mag too
but why do ppl post stuff like that when it is biaos here
and if you stick you gun out and around it expouse you elbow by like 4 inch
and if you tuck in you are exposeing 2 to 3 inch
so really it doesnt matter on that point.

ps like i said i would rather have a mag too

[Lupis Fidelis]

Not sure if I should be insulted or try to get this post "America's Funniest Forum Posts".

I own both an automag and an A5. I have used both extensively. And I use my A5 nowadays far more than my 'Mag. So, let's go over the above post step by step.

1. Uneducated buyers and gimmicks - That's calling most of the paintballing world stupid. The A5 itself is one of the most reliable markers on the market today. While, true, it wouldn't hold up to the performance of a 'Mag, it will keep shooting in circumstances when a mag would have long since died its last death.

2. Flatline balls bouncing - Get better paint. Mine break regularly, even at extended ranges.

3. Cyclone/Hopper breaks, and it's over for the marker - This is true for any marker unless you have a spare hopper. It's easy enough to get a spare or upgrade to an R5. What happens when a Halo or Egg hopper's motor fails? It's just as likely to fail as a Cyclone, and also has the added issue of requiring batteries which run out.

4. Owners embarrassed - Who have you been asking? Yes, my marker weighs more than some do. But last I checked, the game was called "Paintball", not "Let's see who has the lightest marker". Grow some arm strength. Carrying an A5 is nothing compared to carrying around an M16A2, which is considered light for weapons. Try carrying an M240B at 25+ pounds.

So am I embarrassed? Hell no. I'm proud of the consistency, durability, reliability, accuracy and range I get out of my flatlined A5. Am I undereducated? I doubt after 12 years of playing with nearly every type of marker out there at some point or another.

This poll is biased beyond belief, given that it's given on a site that is specifically dedicated to one of the choices. If you posted this on a tippmann site or the A5 Owner's Group, you'd get the exact reverse answer. Most of my team uses A5s. None use automags as their primary. Think about that.

1.By uneducated I meant for the most part the young kids who get a Tippmann because it's base model is affordable. In the long run, to make an A5 compete with a mag you're gonna have to pay as much as a mag if not more.
Also, could you give an example of a circumstance when a mag will die and an A5 will keep going? I personally find that hard to believe.

2. I don't want to have to worry about paint, neither should you. As a traveling scenario player you have to make due with the event paint.

3. The feed is part of the gun and most fields wont have extra hoppers for A5s. If it breaks you're out of luck. If my hopper goes down I bet I can find an old viewloader pretty quickly.

4.You're right the game is called "paintball" what does your M16A2 or M240B have to do with anything? The fact is I don't enjoy a heavy marker, to my knowledge, not many players do.

Yes maybe it is biased but what do you expect?
I did not mean to offend as I have done, I should have chosen my words more carefully, sorry.

How many members of your team own an Automag?

[Jack & Coke]

Also, could you give an example of a circumstance when a mag will die and an A5 will keep going? I personally find that hard to believe.



Liquid CO2


Liquid CO2 you say??!@!$^

Who wants that?! :eek:

Well, if you're using CO2 (for whatever reason), there's a good chance it will eventually happen...

(unless you're running anti-siphon, dual stabs... but then again, you can't do that on a mag ;) ).

Anyways, if you accidentally get any in your gun, the o-rings in the mag valve WILL freeze up and your mag will stop working (i.e. "die"). You will have to wait a little bit for the valve to thaw out before you can shoot another paintball.

Will a mag work with CO2?

Of course! However, EXTRA care and precautions must be taken... and we all know how extra careful we are when we're in a paint slinging fire-fight, right?

The Tippy CVX valve can eat up liquid CO2, no problem. Will it give you consistant shot to shot velocity performance? Hell NO! But, at least you will still be able to shoot paint at your opponent.

Anyways, this is an example as you requested.

:cheers:

[Lupis Fidelis]

That's a good example. I run HPA on my mag and have never had to worry about something like that. One of the reasons I got a mag was because I knew I would be using HPA. :D

I saw a whole lot of problems with A5s and 98s this winter :confused: , my mag kept humming all day though :shooting: .


I don't want to bash on Tippmanns really I was an original owner of a 68special back in 92. :ninja:



Paintball rules.
:bounce:

[yakitori]

mag> A5

[Wheelman]

Few years back I was playing with a tippmann and co2, crono'd in at around 275, after I fired about 50 shot I got spot checked and it was shooting damn close to 350, I had HPA the next day.

They can't like liquid all that much

[Jack & Coke]

like i said... liquid CO2 will play havoc on shot to shot velocities.

However, the A-5 WILL still shoot paint. The mag will not.

Does it make it better? yes and no... depends on your situation and what is important to you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying which gun is "better". I'm just pointing out a situation where the A-5 will still work, where the mag will not.

These "vs." threads really never accomplish anything other than turning into a pep-rally for the home team (gun).

It's really a matter of different tool for different job/conditions.

It's like: crescent wrench vs. vise grips

:tard:

[Ken]

I'll break it down very simply.
The mag is a much more reliable design and have never replaced an o-ring in mine. Just wipe the o-rings and relube after a day of play and put it back in your gearbag. The classic mag is much more accurate, consisttent and efficent than my friends a-5. With the level 10 I never ever broke a paintball, but then again I only chopped once with my level 7. If you use HPA and with proper maintenence the mag will preform +/-5 to +/-3 with good paint.

The a-5 will be faster on the mag once you drop 200 into it, but remember that you can get a mag and all parts for 140 tops. A5 is iffy on paint and has a lack of usefull accesories. When I played with my friend my mag would outpreform his A5 in the woods and in speedball.

So go with the mag if you have access to HPA as you can get a very reliable gun that does what it should with no strings attached.

-Ken

[Meph]

Remarkable.

Automag owners are usually the first to cry that everybody else misunderstands mags. Complaining people have it wrong "they aren't blenders", "they aren't heavy" and you know the rest. And then to say people who say these 'ignorant' claims are always wrong.

Only to then turn and use the same uneducated reasoning to bash another gun/company.


Quite amusing I think, very ironic. But nothing unexpected.



Now as to question at hand, just use what is good for you. Speedball or woodsball. Lefty or righty. HPA or CO2. Just configure and use what is best in your hands. The answer never really ever changes from this no matter which markers are at debate.

Personally I much prefer my A-5 over my automag. That's why I sold my automag. I deliberately abuse my A-5, I have not oiled it or cleaned it since I got it. However I've added a couple items, but they too have seen the wrath of my laziness to "properly care." And what's the result? Well it has a distinct and attractive urban camo "anodize" to it... thank you oxidation from the garage! Screws and nuts rusted, still grass sticking out the cyclone. But every single time I gas it up it doesn't leak. Every time I pull that trigger it shoots, doesn't chop.

Not that I didn't enjoy my automag, I had fun with it. LVL10 was a major bonus, though 10 years too late. But hey that's me. I like the feel and balance of the A5, many people here instead prefer the feel of some major ULE-age, weezin the ju-uice... buuu-dy! (just watched Encino Man yesterday and still have Pauly Shore's voice in my head)

[eagle897]

I used to own an A-5, I sold it and I'm looking for a Mag now. I would say Mag even though I don't own one. The A-5 is a very nice gun, but just personal preference I would say Mag. Thats just me. And all of you that say the flatline bounces at long range, you are wrong. I have been eliminated many times by tippy's with flatlines. And those shots were at long range (135 + ft.)

[shartley]

I like PIE!

(Sorry, that has not been said on AO is a while from what I can see….. )

[Wheelman]

I like PIE!

(Sorry, that has not been said on AO is a while from what I can see….. )


:rofl: oh it has been too long! :rofl:

[Konigballer]

This thread has strayed from it's original context, and part of the reason is because the guy who started the thread titles it "what would u rather have ? a5 or mag ?" and then poses the DIFFERENT question "what is a better gun for woodsball?".....THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT QUESTIONS!! Hence the thread seems to be going all over the place.

If you ask me the rather general question "what would you rather have, A5 or Mag", I would say that I would generally prefer a mag. But the totally different question ""what is a better gun for woodsball?" puts the question in a context, unlike the first one. In that case, and based on my past use of both brands, Tippmann and AGD, as well as the performance of both models mentioned, I would choose the A5 for woodsball play even though, in general, I would choose a mag over an A5.

Tippmann is really a woddsballer's company in a way that no one can say AGD is with a straight face today. Alot of the explosion in the scenario market in the past few years was, and is, fuelled by kids who bought 'mil-sim esque' Tippmann markers like the M98 and A5 and wanted to customize the crap out of them. Tippmann reliability, like a Mags, is unquestioned and they also have excellent customer service and support, so arguing on the reliability point is pretty useless despite the price gap. Its like comparing one AK-47 to another, they both are rugged and reliable in the extreme compared to most other models out there.

However, in the A5 a woodsballer has a near endless stream of customizing options available to him from almost every aftermarket company as well as from Tippmann themselves. And I'm talking about marker specific parts and accessories, not a red dot scope for a M-16 that you stuck on your Tac-1. You would be lying if you said even a fraction of that kind of customization, specifically geared towards scenario/woodsball play, was true about the Mag, especially the Tac-1 version. If we totally cut out brand loyalty, wich is hard to do for most members because they've had such a long history with AGD, I would choose the A5 specifically for woodsball play.