Dc 03 Fsp

[rkjunior303]

HOT!

http://www.flagpull.com/destructive2k4/smoke%20001.jpg

Not mine, but mine will be back soon!

[SummaryJudgement]

Uh, what is that exactly? I'm not familiar with it. Looks nice though....

[rkjunior303]

It's a milled 03 AKA Viking, done by Destructive Customs.

[68magOwner]

Uh, what is that exactly? I'm not familiar with it. Looks nice though....

its an 03 viking, with destructive customs/**** smart parts milling, preety nice

[JAM]

looks good, I like the fade a lot- real gradual.

[jenarelJAM]

WOW, thats all i can say, just WOW

if you ever want to sell it, give me a call...

[WARPED1]

Nice marker. Do you know what inline reg that is?

[mag88888]

that uis the nicest viking ever, enter that in the next months gun contest! :clap: :headbang: :shooting: :hail:
i hate you for this :cuss:

[magman007]

Nice marker. Do you know what inline reg that is?


that would be a 2 liter

[WARPED1]

Cool, where can I buy one? AKA's site?

[Duzzy]

You would probably need to contact Destructive Customs...

Or buy a raw Viking, and pay around $300+ to get it milled. It would probably be cheaper to buy one used on some of the forums. Used you are looking at about $1000+ and new probably close to 1300+.

And guys, as he said in the first post that isn't his gun... So he cannot sell it or put it in GOTM.

[yakitori]

OMG that is pure secks. This is not AKA.org though. :p just kidding man. Its an inside joke for those who have been reading the Ion threads. ;)

That is absolutely gorgeous. Makes me wish I could afford milling on my viking. Vikings/Excals are some of the best guns ever made. Cant wait for Tadao to come out for them.

:D.

2 liters are like the best reg in paintball, Im suprised everyone always asks what a 2 liter is when it is mentioned. Everyone knows AKA is NO HYPE.

[WARPED1]

You would probably need to contact Destructive Customs...

Or buy a raw Viking, and pay around $300+ to get it milled. It would probably be cheaper to buy one used on some of the forums. Used you are looking at about $1000+ and new probably close to 1300+.

And guys, as he said in the first post that isn't his gun... So he cannot sell it or put it in GOTM.
I meant just a 2 liter reg. :)

[Lohman446]

Everyone knows AKA is NO HYPE.

Shenanigans... "the low pressure experts" don't use hype? For the record, using Hype does not mean you do nto have a good base product, but these were hyped

Excaliburs: The speed of an electro, the accuracy of closed bolt. Anyone else remember those?
Interview: Automags are good beginner guns but do not have the range or accuracy of low pressure AKA markers (or some such to that effect, no I cannot source it right now, goign by memory).
Low pressure in general.

Lots of hype, great markers, but they rival SP and Dye in hype.

[magman007]

aka, well heres my take

was a good company, now its crap. they got rid of their most important people, who will crush aka with STD.

i hated the fact that the marker was not... user friendly. you couldnt take it apart, not without a 50 dollar tool kit. same reason i didnt like my angel.

This is why i love my matrixes. you can fix any thing on them, by your self, with a few orings. alot like a mag in their own right.


the marker is really hyped. they are great guns, but god, they arent gods gift to paintball. tell me one thing that separated the viking from the angel?

I still love Aka markers, i loved my featherlight, it was pure sex in a marker, but it did kick, and the way it was setup bothered me, the fact that i couldnt do any thing without a tool kit, and even then, the posibilities were limited for fixing.

I dont like having to send my marker some where for something i could probabally do at home in 20 mins or less.

Aka hyped the crap out of their markers, they talked them up, and they met the requirements, but they didnt surpass them by any means.


the low pressure experts.... to me that just sounds ignorant, as it has been proven that lp and hp are both frivolous arguments.

thats my take on aka...

[rkjunior303]

they are still by far some of the most efficient markers on the planet.

[magman007]

oh no argument there, il agree to that, but it just doesnt seem like people care about efficiency any more, no need to shoot 10 pods a game any more

[hobbesTZ]

I'm ready to spend $650 on an '03 WAS viking. Is there anything else in that range I should be looking for?

[Duzzy]

Sounds like a good deal, but I am no AKA expert by any means.

Now, we should all stop talking about AKA markers or the company and return to oohing and aahing the beautiful marker put before us. :eek:

[magmonkey]

I'm glad you guys like it, I fell in love with this one when it came back from anodize

Alan
DC

[yakitori]

vikings kick? its less than a timmy, more than a trix, definitely less than my emag had. Not a whole lot more than a trix in terms of kick though. It is less kick than an angel too. The diff. between viking and angel is that angels have an adjustable ram cap, and can get rollback or double feeds w/ a Halo B (not to mention you cant even run a halo on some angels). Sensi sucks. The LPR runs at 85 psi when the viking LPR is about 70-72psi when broken in, which give less kick. The inline pressure is about 170-180 w/ MM. Vikings are very easy to fix even though you need a tool kit. They are more consistent than angels. Of the angels ive shot, I feel the viking had better accuracy even w/ the same barrel and paint. Vikings have a lifetime warranty. Angels require a tool kit too, but its more expensive than the viking toolkit (although that kinda bugged me too). They are extrememly reliable and low maintainance. Type 3 ano is hard to scratch, angels ano is very easy to scratch. Angel 14 way valve gaskets suck and I always had them hissing.

W/ my angel that I had, the adjustable ram cap sometimes began to slip and the bolt got stuck forward in the breach causing me to have to break out the tool kit, open the backplate, unscrew the hammer, readjust it. Also the angel hammer has that buggy snap oring cap that needs adjusting. Viking ram/hammer just screws in and stops where it needs too because its better quality gun.

I can go on about the diff bettween viking and angel, but Ive said enough. :D

I dont see how it has limited possibilities to fix it. All you need is an oring kit and a tool kit. They are actually easy to fix.

And yes, for 650 for a 03 viking w/ eyes is not a bad deal, esp if you get a tool kit too. I think the reason that AKA guns shoot so good is because they are extremely consistent. They make some of the most consistent regs on the market.

As for the closed vs. open bolt argument. PPl still argue about it to this day. I think there is no difference between the two. As for the automag vs. aka argument. Lets just say, after I got my Viking, my karta emag was out the door. I personally feel the reason for better accuracy of AKA vs. AGD guns is because of recoil, but dont ask me to prove it.

Its kinda funny cause you said LOTS of hype that rivals dye and SP, but only listed their slogan "low pressure experts" and their interview. That is hardly hype that rivals dye and SP. And at the time that vikings and excals were made, they were some of the lowest pressure guns around. We are talking about a gun that is 2 years in terms of production.

[Lohman446]

Its kinda funny cause you said LOTS of hype that rivals dye and SP, but only listed their slogan "low pressure experts" and their interview. That is hardly hype that rivals dye and SP. And at the time that vikings and excals were made, they were some of the lowest pressure guns around. We are talking about a gun that is 2 years in terms of production.


Hype
AKA: Speed of an electro accuracy and range of closed bolt
SP: Seal forward technology

AKA: the low pressure experts
SP: here... or magic box really does do something, we're just not sure what

AKA: Better than an Automag
SP: Better than an Automag

AKA: Our business failures are all SPs fault
SP: we patented that too

I don't know, there seems to be a lot of hype from both of them, Im sure theres more out there from both, or there followers.

[yakitori]

Hype
AKA: Speed of an electro accuracy and range of closed bolt
SP: Seal forward technology

AKA: the low pressure experts
SP: here... or magic box really does do something, we're just not sure what

AKA: Better than an Automag
SP: Better than an Automag

AKA: Our business failures are all SPs fault
SP: we patented that too

I don't know, there seems to be a lot of hype from both of them, Im sure theres more out there from both, or there followers.

source please? 4 "unreliable quotes from an un-noted source" and thats A LOT of hype?

[fullofpaint]

I don't know about hype, If I go to a field and played with an AKA marker, most people would not no what it was(at least where I play) But if I go and play with a DM3/4/5 or any matrix or SP marker, everyone knows what it is

oh and DC rules! Do you guys have any of those left?

[Lohman446]

source please? 4 "unreliable quotes from an un-noted source" and thats A LOT of hype?


AKA marketting - the quote about the speed of an electro and the accuracy of a cocker was the marketting behind the Excalibur

The low pressure experts I would expect there home page

Ill give you unsourced "better than an automag"

And the business failures was an annoyance on another issue... AKA related but not AKA

I hope you dont expect me to source "the low pressure experts". If you deny AKA running this hype you need to pull your head out of the sand

Edit: tell me which ones you actually question and I'll try to source them out tonight And they were given as examples. Remember a lot of SP hype is from SP users, so is a lot of AKA hype.

[magmonkey]

"And the business failures was an annoyance on another issue... AKA related but not AKA"

???? fill me in here

[Lohman446]

"And the business failures was an annoyance on another issue... AKA related but not AKA"

???? fill me in here

Failure was the wrong word...

There seems to be a desire to blame SP for AKA not being able to produce the Viking any longer. Was SP involved in it - sure they were. But they were protecting intellectual property rights that the Viking stepped on. Its not just a matter of the "expanded" patent either. From my understanding of the original filing the markers AKA produced were in violation of the original patent filings. What they did to others who used things different then switches and microswitches (HES sensors, etc.) may be questionable, though I don't see a court that stopped them. AKA essentially made a marker with a total disregard to the legal and intellectual property rights of others, what happened as a result is fully there fault.

But, I have done what I shouldn't have already and steered this away from what it should have been. That is an awesome marker, not to my tastes personally but there is no denying the strengths of this marker. I just don't like the feeling that AKA was an "innocent" victim here. They had there own faults in the problems they had, blaming it elsewhere is convenient, but it is surely not accepting responsibility for there own faults. The name of the milling... well annoyed me and I went into a tangent that had nothing to do with this thread.

The important parts of this post are bolded. I will go back at some point and source anything I have said (or fail to and admit it) earlier, but I am going to try not to continue this debate here. It takes away from the purpose of this thread and was innappropriate of me.

[rkjunior303]

AKA marketting - the quote about the speed of an electro and the accuracy of a cocker was the marketting behind the Excalibur


looking at this, it could be true. the Excal is closed bolt, which utilizes 2 noids moving the internals in opposite. One could assume that this motion could cancel eachother out, making for a smoother marker, which in essence would eliminate kick WHICH would then increase accuracy.

no?

*edit* which is why excal owners say their markers are "smooth as buttah"
*double secret squirrel edit* man, that was a mouthful

[Lohman446]

looking at this, it could be true. the Excal is closed bolt, which utilizes 2 noids moving the internals in opposite. One could assume that this motion could cancel eachother out, making for a smoother marker, which in essence would eliminate kick WHICH would then increase accuracy.

no?

*edit* which is why excal owners say their markers are "smooth as buttah"

In theory... maybe. I thought the spool valve markers I have shot have had very little kick personally... But the mass moving forward and back, and cancelling out the other movements? Doesn't the bolt move in both directions in nearly every marker that has one on each shot?

[rkjunior303]

In theory... maybe. I thought the spool valve markers I have shot have had very little kick personally... But the mass moving forward and back, and cancelling out the other movements? Doesn't the bolt move in both directions in nearly every marker that has one on each shot?

yes, the bolt moves in both. you have to look at the other reciprocating mass within the marker. the hammer. i'm almost positive there are two of them in an excal, moving in opposite of the other (hence the closed bolt-ness of it). In a viking, you have one moving back and forth -- which in theory would generate kick as it was moving back and forth.

in an excal, while one is moving forward, the other is moving the same distance back -- if you have the same amount of mass, moving at the same speed, but in opposite -- that motion would negative itself out.

Does that make sense? (i ramble).

[Lohman446]

yes, the bolt moves in both. you have to look at the other reciprocating mass within the marker. the hammer. i'm almost positive there are two of them in an excal, moving in opposite of the other (hence the closed bolt-ness of it). In a viking, you have one moving back and forth -- which in theory would generate kick as it was moving back and forth.

in an excal, while one is moving forward, the other is moving the same distance back -- if you have the same amount of mass, moving at the same speed, but in opposite -- that motion would negative itself out.

Does that make sense? (i ramble).

Im not familar enough with the Excals operation to comment well, but I am going to try anyways. Those hammers would have to move at different times - if both sides exerted pressure on the bolt together than wouldn't the bolt not move? I have heard the same reports from Excel owners, having never shot one I cant comment if its exagerated.

[rkjunior303]

Im not familar enough with the Excals operation to comment well, but I am going to try anyways. Those hammers would have to move at different times - if both sides exerted pressure on the bolt together than wouldn't the bolt not move? I have heard the same reports from Excel owners, having never shot one I cant comment if its exagerated.


could very well be, too. one may move then the other may move. maybe alan could chime in, if he reads this... i'm not THAT familar with a Excal to know how the hammers move. either way, anyone that complains about kick in a paintball marker needs to have their head checked lol :)

[yakitori]

I understand, but still AKA doesnt hype up their markers AS MUCH as SP or Dye. Like the guy said, most dont even know what it is.

I dont see how AKA stepped on SP patent issue and had to stop producing, yet WDP still makes angels that are nearly the same design as a viking (except for the stuff I said above).

I am not saying it is the best gun in paintball. IMO, there is no best gun. There just isnt. There are a set of high end guns that set them apart from the rest and all else is preference. But the viking is in that set of markers that stands out above most.

I dont think that SP killed AKA, I think thier patent lawsuit did.

I dont see how "low pressure experts" is hype and "because quality shoots so straight" isnt. That is just a company slogan, and I dont consider it hype.

In fact, I argue what I feel to be true, and I own an Ion and a viking, and a mag (which is for sale by the way in the BST forum, I know, shameless plug :D).

thats my take on the whole AKA "hype".

as for kick on a PB marker. It is not that ppl cannot handle kick, its that at high ROF, less kick translates to tighter groupings. Does it not? That may not matter to you, but it does to some. I also dont want to chance getting penalties because of the design of the Xvalve that leads to shoot up. I get hot shots even when I chronod properly. And it give barrel rise more than my other guns.

[rkjunior303]

I understand, but still AKA doesnt hype up their markers AS MUCH as SP or Dye. Like the guy said, most dont even know what it is.

I dont see how AKA stepped on SP patent issue and had to stop producing, yet WDP still makes angels that are nearly the same design as a viking (except for the stuff I said above).

I am not saying it is the best gun in paintball. IMO, there is no best gun. There just isnt. There are a set of high end guns that set them apart from the rest and all else is preference. But the viking is in that set of markers that stands out above most.

I dont think that SP killed AKA, I think thier patent lawsuit did.

I dont see how "low pressure experts" is hype and "because quality shoots so straight" isnt. That is just a company slogan, and I dont consider it hype.

In fact, I argue what I feel to be true, and I own an Ion and a viking, and a mag (which is for sale by the way in the BST forum, I know, shameless plug :D).

thats my take on the whole AKA "hype".

WDP is owned and operated out of Europe -- they don't fall under the same patent filings as a US based manufacturer does. which was my understanding why the "switch" thing didn't apply to them.

[yakitori]

WDP is owned and operated out of Europe -- they don't fall under the same patent filings as a US based manufacturer does. which was my understanding why the "switch" thing didn't apply to them.

I personally think its stupid about the switch thing. Its like PeterPan suing Jiffy for using REAL peanuts in their peanut butter. How can you make peanut butter w/o peanuts?

[Lohman446]

I dont see how AKA stepped on SP patent issue and had to stop producing, yet WDP still makes angels that are nearly the same design as a viking (except for the stuff I said above).
WDP had legal grounds to continue there production, a court ruled they had not committed patent infringement because they had made financially costly moves to ensure legal compliance. Basically a court ruled that both PVI and Dr Hischel (name ??) owned the rights to the electro paintball marker. It involved a failure of PVI to assure that Dr Hischel signed a work product agreement that resulted in dual ownership. SP had purchased PVI, and as such all of its intellectual property. WDP purchased a license (or the rights, not sure) from Dr Hischel to allow them to produce electro markers. AKA made no such consideration to those that owned those rights.


I dont think that SP killed AKA, I think thier patent lawsuit did.
It could be argued that AKAs production of a marker that ignored intellectual property rights killed them. They in essence took other peoples ideas and the work others had done (or the rights they had bought in SP and WDPs case) and with no consideration of the owners of htat "technology" and innovation competed against them. I would argue that that is morally wrong.


I dont see how "low pressure experts" is hype and "because quality shoots so straight isnt. That is just a company slogan, and I dont consider it hype.
Its hype, on both sides I never said Hype was a bad thing, I personally think it is highly useful myself. I just don't stick my head in the sand enough to argue that successful companies don't engage on it. I'll start a thread about hype this evening. Its not a bad thing...

[Lohman446]

either way, anyone that complains about kick in a paintball marker needs to have their head checked lol :)

Agreed, the kick on even the most "extreme" common markers is easily manageable

[fullofpaint]

WDP is owned and operated out of Europe -- they don't fall under the same patent filings as a US based manufacturer does. which was my understanding why the "switch" thing didn't apply to them.

Actually it would apply to them a s long as SP got their patent recognized in the UK. But t doesn't matter anyways cause the owner of WDP was part of SP originally

[Lohman446]

Actually it would apply to them a s long as SP got their patent recognized in the UK. But t doesn't matter anyways cause the owner of WDP was part of SP originally

US patents do in fact apply to most of western Europe. WDP has been found by the court to have rights to the electronic marker based on there agreement with Dr Hischel (name?) who worked for PVI - the innovators of the electro-marker. Because the Dr. never signed a work product agreement and was not properly compensated by PVI the courts ruled he owned the patent in conjunction with SP (who had bought PVI). As such he was free to license it, or sell it (not sure which) to WDP who took advantage of that.

[magman007]

you know, im hearing a lot of ragging on dye for hype here... id like to know actually how they hyped up their line of markers?

their slogan has always been designed for the art of winning, for their markers, which, judging by the amount of teams shooting them and being sucessful it seems to make sense. if you wouldnt mind just pointing out some examples, that would be great!

[fullofpaint]

I think they mean that they charge way more then their products are worth despite how good they are, anf rememeber it's the playere that makes the marker not the marker that makes the player.

But we digress the point of this thread is too drool over the viking

[yakitori]

well, most pic threads lately have turned into a dispute of the gun companies and hype.

Oh well, Im tired. Im throwing in the towel.

[Lohman446]

well, most pic threads lately have turned into a dispute of the gun companies and hype.

Oh well, Im tired. Im throwing in the towel.


I admitted to that on the first page... I started it.. I apologize on the road this thread took. Does it fix it? Nope.. it doesn't

[rkjunior303]

this turned into a civil, good discussion.. no flames, etc. i wish more threads were like this.

[WARPED1]

So, whats the AKA site so I can look into getting a 2 liter reg?

[rkjunior303]

www.akalmp.com

i would go to www.dbnpaintball.com first. Dan is a great guy.

OR

www.destructivecustoms.com - just email them at [email protected]

[WARPED1]

Thank you very much.

[yakitori]

Last time I checked Dan was out of them. I only know of akalmp selling them right now. Maybe DC does, I havent been there to check lately.

[WARPED1]

$115 is too much for a regulator! Screw AKA! Nice Viking though.

[magman007]

it is the best reg out on the market....

[WARPED1]

it is the best reg out on the market....
Says who?! AKA?! *cough*hype*cough*
Shocker MaxFlo it is then!

[magman007]

no, actually tests have proven it to be. it has been shown to be the best reg on the market, palmers fatty stab second, and sidewinder third

[yakitori]

that is true. it has been show to be the fastest recharging, most consistent reg compared to others. The evil detonator actually did well too, as did the sidewinder. Maxflow did okay I think, and so did the palmer fatty. I cant remember where those test results are, does anyone have the pics/links to them.


its not hype when it comes to a chronograph. Chronos dont lie. :D

[r-unit]

well, i dont give if aka hypes their products, cuz i know vikings are amazing, simply amazing, and the 2 liters have been proven to be the most consistent reg. like + or - 2 at 25 bps or something.