Only the Ion is this freakin...

[Duzzy]

...talked about! :)

And you thought I was going to flame... :nono:

I was just wondering, there were several other markers released to compete with the Ion market but you never hear anything about them, and I have yet to see one for sale, why is this?

My personal theory is that it is because the manufacturing company is Smart Parts. Almost everyone knows of the Impulse, the Shocker, and the Max-Flow.

But how many people know what guns Diablo makes? Sure the Wrath is new but before that what did they make? Or even what guns Odyssey makes? (I think the Wrath was based off one of their designs, not positive though.)

Another theory is that it is equated to a cheaper version of the Shocker. I mean there are other markers out there with break-beam eyes, but how many are a "$300 Shocker"?

These are just my opinions, I probably won't be on for the rest of the night but I am curious.

Enjoy, have fun, and play nice with each other children.

[yakitori]

did the Ion come out first? Is the wrath a blowback marker? I dunno why ppl talk about the Ion more. Maybe it is just a better looking marker than the others. Maybe ppl like the fact that they can change the composite body. I couldnt tell you.

I havent shot a wrath or O3, cause I dont see them that much. I would like to though so I could argue the differnces between them based on design and mine and others personal testimony.
:)

[jenarelJAM]

i think its talked about by sp haters because they hate smarts parts, which then gets the name out there. then non sp-haters notice it, and decide to buy it / test it. just a theory but yeah...

[Chronobreak]

so the cycle continues, by making this thread your only perpetuating the cycle taht will soon cap off and die, ex when more and more cheaper electros with eyes get cheaper making the ion look like a ripoff :D :clap:

[cdacda13]

The wrath is a lot like the BKO. its spring returned.

The Ion came out first, had the most hype around it, and was kinda viewed by same people as a cheaper shocker.

[VFX_Fenix]

Prior to the Wrath Diablo made the Mongoose in its various incarnations, then even before that they distributed the Matrix. I believe they did Jokers before that but there's where I start getting really sketchy.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Prior to the Wrath Diablo made the Mongoose in its various incarnations, then even before that they distributed the Matrix. I believe they did Jokers before that but there's where I start getting really sketchy.

Diablo made the T1's as well. Pretty durable markers.

Personally I think there was excitment over the Ion because it is a spool valve design for so cheap.

[Jakedubbleya]

Maby its because its a high end design with all the gizmos(short of looks) you get in any other marker. And its half as much.

Really, it is sort of pioneering this and smart parts is a powerfull name to have beside such an innovative (in the marketing sense) gun.

[nryche]

I shot both the Wrath and the Ion. Its all about style and function.

Ion – Plastic, multiple firing modes

Wrath – all aluminum, semi only

Both use break beam eyes, and have adjustable triggers.
And I can walk the trigger just as fast on either one

Don’t believe the hipe
Go shoot them both and deside for yourself..

I did and went for the Wrath for my dad so he would start playing again at 65
And he has had no probs with it at all
The old man can rip once more :shooting: :bounce:

[yakitori]

the Ion is not plastic man. It is a composite shell and that is it. Everything else is aluminum w/ powdercoating.

And I think it is kinda like what Jakedubblya said. Its got similar function to high end markers whereas the wrath has more of the lowend electro pneumatic design. Ive also heard that the wrath has placement of the eyes too high in the chamber and that it can still chop. The wrath is a design not much different than other blowback electros. That is why it is not as sought after.

Like I said though. I havent shot a wrath, so I dont know. I have completely disassembled the Ion and installed QEV etc, so I know how it works. Its not a spool valve, but similar. Kinda like spool valve/blowforward.

I dont see why it matters. All these guns shoot paint regardless of what kind of advertising is surrounding it. I just think there are more ppl that HATE SP. They gripe and bash so much that the gun is talked about more than others.

Who cares anymore. PPl are just beating a dead horse now. LEave it to rest. :sleeping:

[Duzzy]

What dead horse?

I simply wanted to know why you never hear about any of the markers made to compete with the Ion.

I dead horse thread would have been:

Ions suck...

Ions are plastic...

SP sucks...

Ions are junk...

I don't think anyone has mentioned the competitors yet, and I am wondering why.

[Lohman446]

If the competitor had the Dye name, WDP, or the Timmy name on it we would be discussing it and I beleive it would be competing with the Ion for sales.

The fact of the matter is SP has a "name" behind it of success in tournaments, of making high end guns. Im not even discussing if they earned that reputation, they have it.

Thats what makes the $300 marker from them so intriguing, and I think one of the other companies wtih the same (or better) reputation in the tournament scene, could compete at that level. Its a reputation that has taken years to build (along with a lot of investment in marketing), and frankly Diablo doesn't have it.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

Rebound...

[WingMan13]

Actually the Wrath was released first, I remember because I almost bought it. I'm happy that I waited and got an ION instead :clap:

[Alpha]

I was just wondering, there were several other markers released to compete with the Ion market but you never hear anything about them, and I have yet to see one for sale, why is this?



I have no doubts that the ion is a great marker, but I have the answer to your question.

Hype.

Let me ask the same question with AGD in reverse.

AGD has several markers out, maybe not to compete with other markers, but I have yet to see one for sale at a pb store (in real life).

Yet the ion, which had absolutely NO reputation when it was release was sold out.

Now, you might be saying "But alpha the ion is so good thats why they were sold out!"

So your saying that every single one was sold out the week of release becuase they are good? I consider RT Pro mags to be good, and people still dont like them. And its been how many years since its release?

Hype is the major factor here. ITs made by smart parts.

eDIT: And I'll end with this.. I bet you half the reason why SP is selling at a low price is ebcuase they have so much money they dont know what to do with it. So they CAN afford to sell them at a lower price.

You really think it costs 1500 dollars to make a DM5?

[ICP]

Diablo made the T1's as well. Pretty durable markers.

Personally I think there was excitment over the Ion because it is a spool valve design for so cheap.

Dragun made the T1. great markers, but poor company.


I'll agree with most people here, the SP name is what makes them popular right now. But with more markers (even blowbacks) with breakbeam eyes in the sub 200 price range, like the new vexxor, the ion "flavor" won't last forever, before it's just another option, like all guns.

[magman#1]

the ion is not made of plastic guys. just thought you might want to know that

[Steelrat]

I heard that if you touch an Ion to lead, it will turn it into gold. The Ion will also cure leprosy.

[Duzzy]

Actually no.

The Ion only cures Cancer and Aids. No leoprasy. As for turning things into gold, well, I don't know. But it did make me a better player and gave me super powers so I could fly around the feild matrix style.

Edit: Misread a post, so I will now use this as a response to the "Midas Ion" claim.

[Lohman446]

the ion is not made of plastic guys. just thought you might want to know that

Tell me you don't seriously beleive this, and if you do who fed you that bull. The ions outer shell is made of a composite (plastic) but everything else, sans the trigger, is metal.

[Duzzy]

Tell me you don't seriously beleive this, and if you do who fed you that bull. The ions outer shell is made of a composite (plastic) but everything else, sans the trigger, is metal.

He said the Ion's shell is not plastic. I misread it to the first time.

[AGD]

I agree with Lohman, the fact that a company with a big rep for high end guns came out with a low end look alike to its top product made it happen. Cocker did the same thing but it didn't offer all the features. Now everyone else is an also-ran.

AGD

[Lohman446]

He said the Ion's shell is not plastic. I misread it to the first time.


Oops... :D

[Jakedubbleya]

I agree with Lohman, the fact that a company with a big rep for high end guns came out with a low end look alike to its top product made it happen. Cocker did the same thing but it didn't offer all the features. Now everyone else is an also-ran.

AGD

Although that may be the reason most people are buying one, i never really compared it to a shocker myself.

For me it truly is just an engineering and marketing feat that I have deemed worthy enough to spend my money on. No offense Tom, but its like buying a more efficient beam-break eye automag, for well, half the price (at least lol).

Yall better come up w/ somethin quickidy splitz.

[tanksmx]

http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/fs6.deviantart.com/i/2005/059/7/e/Warp_Speed_by_tanksmx.jpg

Hey Tom, Wanted to show you this but didnt know how to get ahold of you.

art project thought u might find interesting :)

[SlartyBartFast]

For me it truly is just an engineering and marketing feat that I have deemed worthy enough to spend my money on.

No, it was an engineering fluke and marketing genius.

The reason that the ION is so sheap is because it was a Shocker prototype (or at least that's what I've come to understand it was). Therefor, the development costs for it were ZERO. Nothing, Nada, Zilch.

All the development costs are part of the Shocker's sticker price.

Not necessarily that simple, but essentially. When something is developed, sticker price is determined by calculating and budgeting all costs to market and their asociated financing costs (manufacturing, distribution, development, advertising, etc.) and dividing by a forcast number of sales/period and a number of periods.

Once the sales forcast is reached for the number of periods forcast, the manufacturer can do one of two things, eliminate non-recurring costs from the cost of the product, or enjoy the gravy of extra profits. If the forecasts are reached faster, all the better.

If forcasts are not reached, the company is in a bind if they're publically traded. Because profits are usually declaired on the forcast numbers. So, the unrealised income to cover R&D has to be removed from the financial record as a one-time write-down. Private companies do similar accounting if I remember correctly an can be in a similar bind tax wise.

In the case of the ION, you can hypothecise that Shocker sales were meeting expectations so the ION could be released with no R&D expenses at all. Or, perhaps the Shoccker WASN'T meeting projections and the ION became a good way to recoup SOME of the R&D costs.

It can work both ways. In the car industry, the super cars, race development, and show cars are all financed by the sales of the main product line. Or, the other way round when pontiac declaired a loss on the Aztec which was then reborn in Oldsmobile form.

Either way a great call by marketing and financial. Love'em or hate'em SP looks to be making good business.

[Lohman446]

^^ he's right in the logic, and the story on an early Shocker design is what I have heard from several sources. This was the Shocker (albeit in fancier form) that was almost released before they turned back and tweaked it to get what they actually did release, as such there is minimal expense in the design of the ion.

[Automaggot68]

I heard that if you touch an Ion to lead, it will turn it into gold. The Ion will also cure leprosy.

it can also make a english muffin pizza without burning the cheese.
:)

[alooney11]

No matter what the ion was a great idea i saw one for the first time at castle conquest last weekend, and although they are plastic (which is kind of a turn off) they allow players to havea great marker at a great price.

[VAballer]

No matter what the ion was a great idea i saw one for the first time at castle conquest last weekend, and although they are plastic (which is kind of a turn off) they allow players to havea great marker at a great price.

Just the shell and trigger are plastic. Other then that it's a great marker for the price. I haven't had a single issue with mine. Great gun.

[Jakedubbleya]

No, it was an engineering fluke and marketing genius.


Id like to give them SOME credit at least, for taking that design for a 600$ gun and making it a 270$ gun.

I doubt the plastic shell was part of the original shocker design...

[Lohman446]

The rumor I have heard is that the cost to produce a Shocker is not that drastically different than the cost to produce an Ion - certainly not the $500 in there sticker price.

[JimmyBeam]

psssst........


hey check this (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=986782) out

[Jakedubbleya]

The rumor I have heard is that the cost to produce a Shocker is not that drastically different than the cost to produce an Ion - certainly not the $500 in there sticker price.

But we were arguing design costs not production costs... right?

Even if the shockers only cost 300 to make its half that for the ion, and there are definitely some major design changes.

[Vex]

the Ion is not plastic man. It is a composite shell and that is it.
What do you think they mean by "composite"? It is nothing more than a fancy way of saying that their product is made out of "plastic"; otherwise, they would disclose the actual material that was used in the construction.