Mag or Ion

[Dr*teeth]

I am sure this is a very played out question...but I didnt find a good answer that dealt with my situation...


I dont care all that much about BPS... I care about accuracy and weight... period. I am mainly a rec player who is a front man. I seek and scout .. we used radios in a four man group.... I want a quiet marker that is very accurate and distance shooter. I want to be able to seek in .. notify my mates .. and two or three ball my target without letting everyone know right where I am. I used to own a very nice lvl ten.. uped mag... dye barrels/freak sys... It pretty much fit the bill but weight was always an issue for me.

I am now thinking about going to the Xvalve/Ule mag with similar barrels or going to an uped Ion with similar barrels.... I dont want to trade ROF for accuracy....

Please give me your advice.... experience with these markers or perhaps people in my situation appreciated.

THANKS!

Please recommend a good system spec on our Ion if you think that is the route I should go.

[jaredborne]

get a devilmag... arent they like under 3 pounds?

[Asian_Sensation]

get a tippman custom 98 with good barrel....or a A-5 with flatline.... if not into those, try a trilogy sport.... other then that a stock mag should suit your purpose fine i would guess. ever thought of a nice pump?!?!?!? light,compact,quite,accurate,and can pop off 3 shots rather quickly.....................

[Glickman]

get a devilmag... arent they like under 3 pounds?

for about the same performance, you could get a few ions for that much...


ion all the way, its super quiet, more then my matrix, and even with the stock barrel, i can hit the string that hangs the net on the field consistantly from 30+ feet.

[teufelhunden]

Ion. Hey, it's got a plastic body so it has to be light, right? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jenarelJAM]

get the mag. and im not just saying this cause im a mag owner. i actuall really love the ion for what it is, (my friend has one and its awesome) but if you're not going for bps, a ule body mag will shoot fast enough in mech mode and when i played at the field today, my friend was saying every time between games, "i cant believe how quiet your marker is man".
just saying that i have no trouble shooting close to 10 bps for a 3-5 round string on mech mode of my emag(equivalent to an rt pro). besides, an *upped* ion has almost no resale value over a regular ion, and there arent that many upgrades out for the ion yet anyways(i dont think). a mag will keep its sale value for years as long as its taken care of (ie. oil, dry fire, oil, play, oil, let it be).
as long as you put $500 or so into it, the mag would be better for you imo.

:clap: just get the mag :clap:

[Alpha]

MAgs.

Top 10 reasons why YOU should have an RT Pro Automag.


1. 26 balls per second, without shoot down. 34+capable.

2. Very lightweight. A full ULE setup weighs in at under 2.7 pounds.

3. Very good looking.

4. Single tube design.

5. Rugged Design. Submerge it in water, shake it around, pull it out, and FIRE!

6. Impossible to chop (if not tuned right)

7. Unique mechanisms known only to AGD (LX antichop bolt for example).

8. AGD and its dealers has some of the best customer support (aka no business nazis).

9. Mechanical marker that reach speeds of reason 1.

10. You can be unique. Get off the bandwagon, and GET A MAG NOW!


I think the ion has like 2 or 3 of those.

[Glickman]

get the mag. and im not just saying this cause im a mag owner. i actuall really love the ion for what it is, (my friend has one and its awesome) but if you're not going for bps, a ule body mag will shoot fast enough in mech mode and when i played at the field today, my friend was saying every time between games, "i cant believe how quiet your marker is man".
just saying that i have no trouble shooting close to 10 bps for a 3-5 round string on mech mode of my emag(equivalent to an rt pro). besides, an *upped* ion has almost no resale value over a regular ion, and there arent that many upgrades out for the ion yet anyways(i dont think). a mag will keep its sale value for years as long as its taken care of (ie. oil, dry fire, oil, play, oil, let it be).
as long as you put $500 or so into it, the mag would be better for you imo.

:clap: just get the mag :clap:

thats an emag, think of the performance compared to an ion. then think of the prices.

ion out of the box:
-faster
-quieter (only used stock barrel even)
-cheaper (by alot compared to emag)

quality isnt an issue either, id say its as rock-solid as a mech spyder. you can drop it over and over


as i said in the other thread, ive owned and shot both Ion is well worth getting it, ill take one over an emag any day.


1. 26 balls per second, without shoot down. 34+capable.(he isnt looking for speed, 17 bps is more then enough)

2. Very lightweight. A full ULE setup weighs in at under 2.7 pounds.(2.1 pounds)

3. Very good looking.(got that too)

4. Single tube design.(got that)

5. Rugged Design. Submerge it in water, shake it around, pull it out, and FIRE! (look for muddy ion pictures)

6. Impossible to chop (if not tuned right) (never chopped in 4 cases of paint, break beam eyes)

7. Unique mechanisms known only to AGD (LX antichop bolt for example). (whoopdy do, wonder why its not implements more? :rolleyes: )

8. AGD and its dealers has some of the best customer support (aka no business nazis) stop wasting air please... AGD isnt business smart, if they were, you would be seeing alot more production by now. SP has awsome support, other wise i wouldnt have kept using them for 6 years

9. Mechanical marker that reach speeds of reason 1.

10. You can be unique. Get off the bandwagon, and GET A MAG NOW! (thats a reason to spend an extra few hundred?)

[Alpha]

I bet if you took a survery, and found all the people that <3 ions to the bone, and asked tem if they have ever shot one, a good majority will never have.

I' not syain gions are bad. GREAT for the price.

But do you want to join a community of dieing brothers, and know what its like to be on the outside?

Do you want to conform your personality to a certain fad every few months, or do you want to be yourself, think on your own, and be unique?

Do what your heart tells you (btw your heart is teling you to get an rpg paradigm. (www.themagsmith.com).

[Glickman]

I bet if you took a survery, and found all the people that <3 ions to the bone, and asked tem if they have ever shot one, a good majority will never have.

I' not syain gions are bad. GREAT for the price.

But do you want to join a community of dieing brothers, and know what its like to be on the outside?

Do you want to conform your personality to a certain fad every few months, or do you want to be yourself, think on your own, and be unique?

Do what your heart tells you (btw your heart is teling you to get an rpg paradigm. (www.themagsmith.com).


again. lets spend an extra how many hundred dollers to do what?

take your facist implementing ideas somewhere else :D

and btw. assuming brings nothing to the table :p

[dj89]

If you want a good rec/woods ball marker get a mag, if you want a cheater, speed ball, spartparts gun get an ion. Its up to you.












Get the mag. ;)

[peewee]

I own both & thus far the ion is a decent marker for the money. ( sad that it costs another $100 to get it set to rip, new reg & feed neck) I dont feel that it out performs my ULE mag over all. IT slings paint faster but less accuratly than my mag. The reg is still fluctuating +/- 20fps. Even after a case + of paint. My mag is a better shooter.

[Glickman]

If you want a good rec/woods ball marker get a mag, is you want a cheater speed ball spartparts gun get an ion. Its up to you.
Get the mag. ;)

ahh so this is what its resorted to?

btw. im purely rec and senario and i have an ion :P getting another :p

i dont know why u need another "$100" into the ion...

stock feedneck is fine, my stock reg, once broken in was +- 5 fps, took out magnet in trigger, never need a new one

like i said, even with stock barrel, 30+ feet can shoot a wire consistantly

[dj89]

....btw. im purely rec and senario and i have an ion :P getting another :p

Stupid New Yorker.....aww wait a sec.

[Dr*teeth]

I own both & thus far the ion is a decent marker for the money. ( sad that it costs another $100 to get it set to rip, new reg & feed neck) I dont feel that it out performs my ULE mag over all. IT slings paint faster but less accuratly than my mag. The reg is still fluctuating +/- 20fps. Even after a case + of paint. My mag is a better shooter.


Thank you... some good sound advice.... a lot of spam already created in this thread... more of this info please!!! :)

[Dr*teeth]

ahh so this is what its resorted to?

btw. im purely rec and senario and i have an ion :P getting another :p

i dont know why u need another "$100" into the ion...

stock feedneck is fine, my stock reg, once broken in was +- 5 fps, took out magnet in trigger, never need a new one

like i said, even with stock barrel, 30+ feet can shoot a wire consistantly


Thank you also for decent review of your markers performance.

[thp]

:shooting: Neither an Ion or a Mag, these are great in the woods.

<a href="http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~doanan/Paintball/RAP17LaserEyes.JPG"><img src="http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~doanan/Paintball/RAP17LaserEyes.JPG" width="600" height="450"></img></a>

[Alpha]

ahh the RAP17, Glock 17. Is that an LE?

[nryche]

For Recball though it’s nice to have a gun u can put in the mud and keep shooting (mag) when you are in the front a lot. Also remember that mags have the response triggers that can easily turn into 15+ bps. (I learned the sweet spot on my ule ult this weekend :headbang: )

When you are looking at markers don’t forget the Tac-One. For recball it might be nice for some people to add scopes and such

Its up to u bro

[thp]

ahh the RAP17, Glock 17. Is that an LE?
Yuppers.

[AnimalMother]

btw. im purely rec and senario and i have an ion :P getting another :p



What? Why would you use an ion for rec/scenario? :confused: :confused: :tard: I mean, ions are great for their price and fast, which is good for SPEEDBALL, but you need long-range accuracy (which I admit is impossible to control due to the aerodynamics of a paintball), reliability and durability for rec/scenario. And the ion, which is mostly, cough, cough, plastic, will give you none of those. Stick with a mag, ANY mag, if you're going to play rec/scenario.

[frop]

:sigh: I guess I'll pitch in.

I feel that the reliability of the Ion has yet to be proven. I say this because they haven't been around very long.

Now, most people upgrade their guns right away anyways, be they Ion or Mag, so, ppl, please ditch the out-of-the-box crap.

Really, what you need to do is shoot an Ion and see if you like it more than Mags. It seems that your wallet will support either option, so IMHO, feel is what it comes down to.

[Lohman446]

[quote=Alpha]1. 26 balls per second, without shoot down. 34+capable.

On a mechanical marker that you can, in any legal mode (pretty hard to ramp a mechanical) shoot about 10BPS. The Ion actually can attain and sustain 15BPS (with ramping) and has a shorter trigger pull than a mechanical mag for true semi. Than again, he said speed wasn't an issue.


2. Very lightweight. A full ULE setup weighs in at under 2.7 pounds.
I beleive Glickman already found the scale... but the Ion is as light as the mag, so for this comparison weight seems to be an "out" issue


3. Very good looking.
Opinion


4. Single tube design.
Umm.. have you ever seen an Ion? Note the basic single tube design (there are air lines running through the rail


5. Rugged Design. Submerge it in water, shake it around, pull it out, and FIRE!
Can't say as I have ever tried this with a marker... any marker. Can't foresee it happening.


6. Impossible to chop (if not tuned right)
Of which only about 1% of the people ever get it tuned right. Most people, even with LX chop from time to time, its part of life. Which brings up the whole issue of what I consider finicky level tens and tuning.


7. Unique mechanisms known only to AGD (LX antichop bolt for example).
Unless you count things like the jam bolt. Besides, who else would copy it if they don't need it.


8. AGD and its dealers has some of the best customer support (aka no business nazis).
Please explain, in rational terms, how you compare a capitalistic company to the third reich either in economic ideas or in the autrocities they committed. Get over the nazi thing, it was stupid when it started and it has only become more stupid as it continues. That being said SP's technical support sucks... then again, they are at nearly every major event (though likely not scenarios, don't know) and when I look at it from an outsiders view are almost certain to be here five years from now.


9. Mechanical marker that reach speeds of reason 1.
In legal controlled methods? This I'd like to see


10. You can be unique. Get off the bandwagon, and GET A MAG NOW!
Ehh.. Uniqueness has its own advantages and disadvantages. Having a mag is unique though.




That being said, it depends how and where you play and how much. I like the Ion, but the Mag is not a bad marker, especially for what you are looking for. Noise and accuracy are manageable with either one through barrel selection, and I have heard some very quiet mags. You will have more barrel choices with a mag, using Cocker threading rather than an Ion using proprietary SP threading. There pretty evenly matched, with only a few issues seperating them
The Ion is electro, you get a better anti-chop feature (to me) which may or may not mean anything. The speeds you sound to be shooting and the few shots you take chopping should not be an issue.

The mag may be more rugged in terms of water... ok it is. But for terms of normal play I have not seen a big issue with the Ions either.

The Ion has a speed advantage over the mag unless you are talking high input pressure to the mag. The Ion in legal modes should be faster (shorter trigger) and has ramping.

The mag has durability of not being used... throw it in your bag, pull it out later, adjust LX maybe some o-rings and your good to go. I would say consider a classic valve though without LX to further increase this. It does away with the "retro climb" in velocity under multiple quick shots, does away with LX (get a HALO) and its tuning, and is to me just simpler maintenance.

[Glickman]

What? Why would you use an ion for rec/scenario? :confused: :confused: :tard: I mean, ions are great for their price and fast, which is good for SPEEDBALL, but you need long-range accuracy (which I admit is impossible to control due to the aerodynamics of a paintball), reliability and durability for rec/scenario. And the ion, which is mostly, cough, cough, plastic, will give you none of those. Stick with a mag, ANY mag, if you're going to play rec/scenario.

of course you know what your talking about if your calling it plastic. jeeze, havent explained this in a long time, the body is a composite, like a polymer, similar to some of the plastic you may have on your car, much much more durable then regular abs plastic, which is why the army is using a varient composite for their new xm8.

what makes it a speedball gun? one day ill make a video of how straight the trajectory is, but my ion has proved itself very efficient for scenario ball. i lube it once every 4-5 days played, throw it in the bag, done. ive gotten water on it, dropped it a bunch of times. personally, for 290 it gives you the trigger feel of a matrix, which ive always loved, but not size wise.

[yakitori]

Mag:

More reliable. ULE is lighter
less efficient
slower w/o rapidfire (illegal at some fields)
More expensive (ive got a used one for about 325)
Not as common
Antichop bolt, but no eyes
Shortstroking

Ion:

2.2 lbs or so
W/ QEV get great efficiency ~1500-1600 per 68/4500 fill
accurate
fast
less kick than a mag
cheaper
more maintainance
less reliable


Ive used mags for a long time, just got an ion. I would go w/ the ion simply because of price/performance.

Its up to you since its your money.

[yakitori]

MAgs.

Top 10 reasons why YOU should have an ION



2. Very lightweight. weighs in at under 2.7 pounds.

3. Very good looking.

4. Single tube design.


6. Impossible to chop (more so than a mag, eyes>LX)

7. Unique mechanisms




I think the ion has like 4 or 5 of those.

fixed it for you

better efficiency, less kick, QEV, quieter.

and the body is not Plastic, the shell is. The rest of the gun is aluminum.

[FlynnRuss Productions]

Get an RT ULE, I have both guns so my opinion definatly matters. They both rock but overall I still pick up my RT when I play. :clap:

[Lohman446]

Get an RT ULE, I have both guns so my opinion definatly matters. They both rock but overall I still pick up my RT when I play. :clap:

With all due respect your opinion is worth pretty close to ZERO if you do not back it with reasons. Yes I have owned or do own both markers.

[Lee]

mag: batteries will never die when you have a target = priceless.

i own both as well and love each one for what they are. just seems like the good dr. is serious about what he does and needs something that has near zero failure rate.

regarding level 10: they are not that hard to tune and work great. the only down side is that they take a little time to break in, but not alot. maybe a day or two of play. i've also found that not using shims is the way to go.

once it's broken in, you'll never need to mess with it except to change the occasional o-ring.

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

Range, trajectory, accuracy. On either the Ion or Mag with a properly setup system they will be fine. Both are relatively small and lightweight. The Ion is going to have a higher ROF in legal setup, ie the difference in a microswitch and mechanical pull. In almost every category the Ion is going to trump the mag, except in one or two crucial categories.

One of these is Quality Control, I have seen IONs that have yet to have a problem, don't chop and get excellent consistency, in fact the reg I pulled off of one Ion was as good as the CP reg and better than the Sidewinder. On the other hand I have seen one Ion that has horrible dropoff, hissing hoses ect. I would not order an Ion online, simply because of the QC. If you go to you local shop and pick one up and air it up and fire it a bit and it seems good then it probably a good buy, and trust me spending the extra 20 dollars from online to local will be well worth it for the Ion. The Mag on the other hand, each one performs pretty close to the other, tighter QC.

In terms of long lasting I will say the Mag will long outlast the Ion, but understand that the average paintball player probably plays less than 1 year.

Az

[Geniusa100]

get an ion. @ 2.2 lbs and 17 bps, out of the box the stock barrel is accurate. You cannot beat the gun for the money. Add a little longer barrel and you'll be able to function in any capacity. You won't have any probs out of the box and you'll have a marker that can compete with any on the field. THE WAY TO GO IS THE ION!

[BD_Paintball]

there is no contest here, the ion will beat the mag in every category.

[Lohman446]

there is no contest here, the ion will beat the mag in every category.

Maybe.. maybe not. As others have pointed out long term reliability (unproven in the Ion) may go to the mag. Submersability (why anyone would want to do that is beyond me) goes to the mag.

[BD_Paintball]

Maybe.. maybe not. As others have pointed out long term reliability (unproven in the Ion) may go to the mag. Submersability (why anyone would want to do that is beyond me) goes to the mag.
well my mag craped out in like a year so i would take it that the ion will go longer then that.

[Lohman446]

well my mag craped out in like a year so i would take it that the ion will go longer then that.

It might.. I own one. Without maintenance and with regular use I'm not sure... with maintenance I expect them to last a long time. Judging by the lack of proper lube sent with them though I expect to see quite a few problems from lack of maintenance.

[yakitori]

I know lots of ppl at the field w/ leaky mags too. They arent foolproof. Even ppl that work there own mags and have a certified AGD tech, thier guns still leak.

Whos to say that the Ion wont last as long as a mag?

[Lohman446]

To me.. the markers in performance (semi-only, no rebound) are very close. That being said where I play they allow ramping, so its handy to have.

When it comes down this close... one has to ask if the Ion, which costs about 35% less than a mag doesn't just win by default.

It comes down to where you place what values on a marker. I can assign the same strenghts and weaknesses to a marker when I look at them as someone else, yet reach the total opposite conclusion as to which is the better one for me depending on much weight on put on each strength or weakness. I think he has some decent comparisons here, to make his own judgement of value of each factor.

[yakitori]

In semi w/ my Ion I can get way faster than my mag. Even w/ ULT, I can walk it a little bit, not reliable for long strings, but in bursts it works great. I took the trigger magnet out of the Ion, heated it w/ a lighter, and made it much lighter. I can walk it easily at 14 bps or more. Thats faster than my mag by a long shot. And no shortstroking. Rebound is nice too, but I dont feel the need for it, unless I am playing a tourney that allows it.

[slade]

ok first of all half of what you listed is irrelevant, like accuracy, range, trajectory, etc. theyre all the same for all the guns. disregarding spin (flatline) all markers will have the same range and trajectory, since they are shooting at the same velocity. and accuracy is mainly in the ball and barrel, not gun. the only thing in the gun that affects accuracy would be the shot to shot consistancy, which will vary but should be acceptable in most guns.

as for chosing a marker for you, im gonna go against what most people here said, and pick something you didnt list. get a mechanical autococker. the only thing it doesnt have which you would be looking for is reliability, but after a while you should be able to tech a cocker fine. and anyway the ion probably isnt all that reliable either. you said you werent looking for speed, so that means you really dont need something fast like an ion or even ult'd mag; the speed of a mech cocker should be fine. and autocockers are quiet as hell, really some of the quietest markers out there. they arent that light but arent all that heavy either, and since you arent worried about speed you wont need the eyes or LX, and you can probably tune it enough that itl pinch balls. and if it does chop, you can always get a halo, you wont outshoot that. and also since youre a woods player who seems to want to only shoot 2-3 balls at a time, a great thing about a cocker is you can always buy a pump kit. plus the best thing is mechanical autocockers are dirt cheap, you can find a good one on ebay for a bit over 250 or an older cocker for even less.

however if you want the reliability and dont mind the noise, you can go with the mag.

[Asian_Sensation]

ugh i dont understand! why would one get an ion for woodsball?!?!?!? its obviously a speedball marker! i still say get a mag or take a smarter route and get a phantom or some other nice pump.....its perfect for a scout who doesnt really get into an engagement.

pump>ion for a woodsball frontman
quiet..
light...
accurate....
can get a few shots off at a decent rate.....
cheap
MAJOR STYLE POINTS!!!!!!
get a remote setup for it and look way sweet plus it makes it lighter, Also you can get wristbands that hold the mini pods of paint!!!! wristbands!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but if your destined to waste your money on smart parts the company that is only there for the money...... or AGD the company that has bad advertsing and is probally going out of bussiness... go for the mag, they came b4 the ion/shocker design(i guess smart parts cant think of there own design) and are more ?virsatile?(i need spellcheck :( ) then smart parts built for speed products. and mags are pretty cheap.... 250$ for a custom pro from AGD website...amazing deal. plus look at the markers on here! can get uped ones for cheap also!


oh and your SP lovers are annoying..... AGD >(<--greater than)SP

[yakitori]

ugh i dont understand! why would one get an ion for woodsball?!?!?!? its obviously a speedball marker! i still say get a mag or take a smarter route and get a phantom or some other nice pump.....its perfect for a scout who doesnt really get into an engagement.

pump>ion for a woodsball frontman
quiet..
light...
accurate....
can get a few shots off at a decent rate.....
cheap
MAJOR STYLE POINTS!!!!!!
get a remote setup for it and look way sweet plus it makes it lighter, Also you can get wristbands that hold the mini pods of paint!!!! wristbands!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but if your destined to waste your money on smart parts the company that is only there for the money...... or AGD the company that has bad advertsing and is probally going out of bussiness... go for the mag, they came b4 the ion/shocker design(i guess smart parts cant think of there own design) and are more ?virsatile?(i need spellcheck :( ) then smart parts built for speed products. and mags are pretty cheap.... 250$ for a custom pro from AGD website...amazing deal. plus look at the markers on here! can get uped ones for cheap also!


oh and your SP lovers are annoying..... AGD >(<--greater than)SP

SP haters are more annoying than ppl who give credit to a gun when credit is due. Have you even shot an Ion? It shoots very nice. Stop bashing SP just because of a lawsuit. The Ion is a great gun.

Dude. The Ion is quieter than a mag. Even w/ the stock Ion barrel compared to a mag w/ a stiffi. You can use any gun for woodsball. The Ion is fine for woodsball. An ion is 285 shipped compared to the 250+ shipping for the pro and it will out perform the pro hands down.

Go w/ the Ion.

[frop]

Now, most people upgrade their guns right away anyways, be they Ion or Mag, so, ppl, please ditch the out-of-the-box crap.

Really, what you need to do is shoot an Ion and see if you like it more than Mags. It seems that your wallet will support either option, so IMHO, feel is what it comes down to.

???? Anyone??????

[Lohman446]

Let me say this, I love my Ion and would take it over a mag almost any day. When it started sleeting at the tournament yesterday though I was wishing I had an old classic mag in my gear bag. I think an old classic (yes, I prefer the classic valve to the X for this application) without LX (again, application specific decision) and a ULE body would have been nice to have.

[Asian_Sensation]

yes i shot the ion btw.... when it first released, The local field shop was repairing them.... cuz the 3 peeps who got one had mad problems with the Sp junk... dont get me wrong i was amazed at first by it when i shot it...but after the kids had to get it fixed after a few games, i was like hmm ill stick to a mag.



i still suggest a phantom or like someone else has suggested in here a cocker uped to a pump that would be way sweet.

[yakitori]

yes i shot the ion btw.... when it first released, The local field shop was repairing them.... cuz the 3 peeps who got one had mad problems with the Sp junk... dont get me wrong i was amazed at first by it when i shot it...but after the kids had to get it fixed after a few games, i was like hmm ill stick to a mag.

what problems was it. Most problems that hey have are because they are bought by noobs. Ive seen ppl trying to put gun oil in them. Ive seen ppl turn the reg up above 200psi. Ive seen ppl do lotsa things that cause them to screw up. The ion is not junk. Stop hating SP just because of a lawsuit. Just because YOU are loyal to YOUR mag doesnt mean the ion is junk.

[Asian_Sensation]

what problems was it. Most problems that hey have are because they are bought by noobs. Ive seen ppl trying to put gun oil in them. Ive seen ppl turn the reg up above 200psi. Ive seen ppl do lotsa things that cause them to screw up. The ion is not junk. Stop hating SP just because of a lawsuit. Just because YOU are loyal to YOUR mag doesnt mean the ion is junk.

they had problems with leaking on one of them. i didnt really pay attention to the others. your probally right about them being noobs, the kids just got into paintball like amonth ago so you may be right. and i dont just hate SP for the lawsuit but why do you think they released the ION? so they can get into the sales bracket of entry level players...(the market for this area in markers is quite huge, i believe its the largest in money making.) aka make more money and also they plan on sucking the newer generation into there products for future purchases.... in essence its a great marketing tactic.... hence them being a only in it for the money company.

also im sorry to the DR about none of this being useful umm here is some reviews of the ion from Facefull.
+good
Price, Break beam sensors, Magnetic Trigger, Simple operation, gripping feed tube, durable dual detents,firing modes, and interchangeable bodies.
-bad
cannot be field stripped... poor gas efficiency,,,,,,,,plastic trigger........and its slow(dont agree 17bps it definitly fast enough)

[yakitori]

Im willing to bet the leak was from not being lubed properly, or taking it apart and not reassembling it properly. I do agree, the trigger is not the greatest, but its workable. Delrin triggers or CP trigger can alleviate that though. Its efficiency is decent ~ 1200 on a 68/4500 fill. Thats stock. W/ QEV more like 1500+ on a 68/4500. Thats more than many other guns. Facefull mag is also not the best source for ratings. I personally feel it is biased.

Im not bragging about the Ion for nothing. Trust me, Ive shot my fair share of guns, both highend, and lowend to know the differences. The Ion has impressed most ppl who have shot it simply because it shoots like a high end gun, but a fraction of the cost. I know ppl who have sold thier timmys to get an ion and have mad cash left over for fees, paint, and playing ball. It may dissappiont a lot of ppl, but the truth is its a great gun.

Mag has strong points too though, dont get me wrong. I love mags for what they are. At the same time I give credit where it is due. And EVERY company is in it for the money. AGDs stuff is not cheap. Lets face it. It is built to last though. They are great guns. Its just price that is my concern.

[Asian_Sensation]

Im willing to bet the leak was from not being lubed properly, or taking it apart and not reassembling it properly. I do agree, the trigger is not the greatest, but its workable. Delrin triggers or CP trigger can alleviate that though. Its efficiency is decent ~ 1200 on a 68/4500 fill. Thats stock. W/ QEV more like 1500+ on a 68/4500. Thats more than many other guns. Facefull mag is also not the best source for ratings. I personally feel it is biased.

Im not bragging about the Ion for nothing. Trust me, Ive shot my fair share of guns, both highend, and lowend to know the differences. The Ion has impressed most ppl who have shot it simply because it shoots like a high end gun, but a fraction of the cost. I know ppl who have sold thier timmys to get an ion and have mad cash left over for fees, paint, and playing ball. It may dissappiont a lot of ppl, but the truth is its a great gun.

Mag has strong points too though, dont get me wrong. I love mags for what they are. At the same time I give credit where it is due. And EVERY company is in it for the money. AGDs stuff is not cheap. Lets face it. It is built to last though. They are great guns. Its just price that is my concern.

wow i agree, good call.

[slade]

Most problems that hey have are because they are bought by noobs.
heheheh, i thought that was sorta funny. its a $300 marker, who do you think its targeted at?


Its efficiency is decent ~ 1200 on a 68/4500 fill. Thats stock. W/ QEV more like 1500+ on a 68/4500.
mind telling me how QEVs improve efficiency?

[frop]

^^ Players stepping up after their first gun & experieced players looking for good bang for their buck??

Maybe it's just me, but I think $300 is still too much for a pure noob gun.(That's what spyders are for :) )

[yakitori]

heheheh, i thought that was sorta funny. its a $300 marker, who do you think its targeted at?


mind telling me how QEVs improve efficiency?

^^ agreed. Its not a noob gun, but lotsa noobs buy them. That is why everyone complains of probs. They are not used to having a gun that you have to actually maintain, albiet maintainance isnt that difficult. And 300 is not a noob price range anyway.

well it allows you to lower your dwell from 16ms stock (52 blinks) to 5.5 (mines at that, or 10 blinks). I also was able to drop my inline pressure from 180 stock to 120-130psi w/ after installing the QEV and still chrono at 270-280. it also allow for quick exhaust of the pressure holding the bolt back allowing for faster cycling rates instead of the air having to travel through the hose back to the noid, and keeps grease out of the noid. Increases efficiency by 20-30%.

Anything else you want to know?

[slade]

well it allows you to lower your dwell from 16ms stock (52 blinks) to 5.5 (mines at that, or 10 blinks). I also was able to drop my inline pressure from 180 stock to 120-130psi w/ after installing the QEV and still chrono at 270-280. it also allow for quick exhaust of the pressure holding the bolt back allowing for faster cycling rates instead of the air having to travel through the hose back to the noid, and keeps grease out of the noid. Increases efficiency by 20-30%.
ahh, ok, so the faster exhaust lets you adjust other settings, which then allow for an increased efficiency. it sounded like you were saying just throwing in a QEV increases efficiency, and i was like... what?? it just vents air faster.

[yakitori]

ahh, ok, so the faster exhaust lets you adjust other settings, which then allow for an increased efficiency. it sounded like you were saying just throwing in a QEV increases efficiency, and i was like... what?? it just vents air faster.

oh, my bad. I shouldve elaborated on it. :D. Yes, the QEV allows you to adjust your settings differently for increased efficiency. It may just be me cause I slapped a QEV in before I used it stock for very long. I did shoot it some, about 500 balls or so, stock. Then the QEV installed and lowered pressures, seems to have decreased kick a little bit and maybe helped make it a little queiter. I dont have any way to test or prove that though.

[Paintchucker]

I am sure this is a very played out question...but I didnt find a good answer that dealt with my situation...


I dont care all that much about BPS... I care about accuracy and weight... period. I am mainly a rec player who is a front man. I seek and scout .. we used radios in a four man group.... I want a quiet marker that is very accurate and distance shooter. I want to be able to seek in .. notify my mates .. and two or three ball my target without letting everyone know right where I am. I used to own a very nice lvl ten.. uped mag... dye barrels/freak sys... It pretty much fit the bill but weight was always an issue for me.

I am now thinking about going to the Xvalve/Ule mag with similar barrels or going to an uped Ion with similar barrels.... I dont want to trade ROF for accuracy....

Please give me your advice.... experience with these markers or perhaps people in my situation appreciated.

THANKS!

Please recommend a good system spec on our Ion if you think that is the route I should go.


I have an original Emag with SS Minimag Body and an 88 tank/Revy/Xbrd, a ULE Emag (Ule Body, Ule Rail, Ule Frame) with a 68 tank/HaloB, and an ION with an Odessey Frontman and a 45/5000.

If you are looking for lightness, then the ION is the way to go... Your accuracy is dependant on your paint to barrel match, Freak or other barrel kit would fit either with right back... Rate of fire? To be honest, being a rec player, isn't over 10 bps overkill anyway???

As far as the maintenance question, if you take care of your equipment, it will last a long time. I have 4 guns that are over a decade old: my 2 late 1990's Bushmaster Pumps and my 1993 F2 Illustrator ( I guess it was the ION type entry level tourny gun of 1993) and my 1994 Minimag. They all shoot still, and have been oiled regularly as well as inspections. I don't really shoot them much, less than 100 rds/yr. but the point is that taken care of properly, most any paintball gun will last a long time...

[929RR-MAN]

I own a Tac one Mag, but I have never seen, shot or heard much about the ion, so I can't say any good or bad on it, but I can give you some info on my mag.

First off, my T1 with just the gun and barrel alone feels like a feather as far as weight goes, but as soon as I put all the other stuff on- revolution hopper w/paint, drop forward, 68/4500 tank, quick disconnect fittings and macroline, it got to be fairly heavy, but not too bad-lighter than friend's a5's. I also play mainly woods/scenario and am mainly the front man on our squad and the weight doesn't bother me at all.
The gun is pretty quiet, everyone always says how quiet it is, even with the stock barrel. To me, it seems like it is kind of loud, but probably because its by my face all of the time (duh). Still a lot quieter than all of the tippmans out there.
Accuracy- Like you, I play up front, and my style is pretty much in your face paintball. I like to move, try to get the angles and I wanted a gun that is accurate in the short to medium range (not much of a long ball guy) and the mag does this for me. It is an accurate gun, even with the stock barrel and I try to match my paint with it as much as possible, sometimes you'll have a stray shot, but not often. You won't be able to go head to head with a5 flatline from across a valley, but within the mag's range it is accurate. (can't wait to get my match-stick barrel kit) I've shot all different kinds of paint-from crappy paint to marbilizer, and they were all accurate, mostly because they matched the barrel well.
The lvl 10 is nice, but it does chop on occasion, but then again its only factory tuned, and I have full confidence that with some fine-tuning, chops will be a thing of the past.
The stock trigger pull isn't bad, I can still fire fairly fast, but I hope to get the ule trigger kit soon just for the lighter feel and for a little more customization (is that a word?)
The tac one is a unique gun, I haven't seen one at the field yet and usually about 50 to 80 people show up on a normal open play day. It gets looks, thats for sure, it's a sweet gun.
Overall, the Tac One is a great gun and i'm sure most mags will perform as well, if not even better that mine. It's built like a tank, I always heard how tippmann's were built to be indestructible, but I will say that the automag feels even more indestructible than my tippmann markers (not a knock on tippmanns, i still love them to death, but there's something about the automag that feels just so right)
Like I said before, I don't have an opinion on an ion because i've never used one, but my Automag Tac One is a very well built, durable, rugged, and very reliable marker and i'm postive that almost everyone out there would agree. Hope this helps.

[WARPED1]

Go for an Ion. Great gun for the money.

[Teamslayer76]

I've shot the Ion I must admit it shoots pretty good for a gun under $300 bucks. But I just cant really see it lasting that long. The plastic was really cheap looking and feeling. Like just above Brass Eagle standards. On the other hand, a mag will pratically last for ever. I've got a lvl 5 68 Classic from like 92' that I still run a few balls threw. Also the Ion is electronic, If you not into that then I guess that a big turn off. And stated before at some field rapid fire is allowed wich you can shoot you'r automag w/rt valve up to 34bps with a good tank {max-flow dyna flow}
Which makes it the fastest actual with paint shooting gun you can possibly buy that I know of.
Accuracy is alright on mags but it's really just Paint&Barrel match. OH and lasty you can upgade the hell out of automags, custom bodies, triggers, rails, asa, everything is upgadeable execpt the whole valve assembly.

Also might I saw the Automags comunity will always help you out. As you can obviosly see.
Well most of the time. Were no TrasHNation, we are cool lol.

:clap:

Hope it helps

Teamslayer

[yakitori]

to clear up any confusion or rumors, the ION is not PLASTIC. The gun is aluminum w/ a shell/sleeve plastic that slides over the body, kinda like a cell phone.

The body is aluminum, the feedneck is aluminum, the grip frame is aluminum, the reg, is aluminum w/ a rubber sleave, the barrel is aluminum. The ONLY plastic on the gun is the Composite shell, and the trigger, and the bolt. Thats it. All important parts are aluminum.

It is powder coated aluminum. Its not comparible to brass eagle, thats absurd.

mags are Stainless or aluminum if its ULE.

[peewee]

The answer is simple be a gun whore & buy both ... I did... :D

[WARPED1]

I've shot the Ion I must admit it shoots pretty good for a gun under $300 bucks. But I just cant really see it lasting that long. The plastic was really cheap looking and feeling. Like just above Brass Eagle standards. On the other hand, a mag will pratically last for ever. I've got a lvl 5 68 Classic from like 92' that I still run a few balls threw. Also the Ion is electronic, If you not into that then I guess that a big turn off. And stated before at some field rapid fire is allowed wich you can shoot you'r automag w/rt valve up to 34bps with a good tank {max-flow dyna flow}
Which makes it the fastest actual with paint shooting gun you can possibly buy that I know of.
Accuracy is alright on mags but it's really just Paint&Barrel match. OH and lasty you can upgade the hell out of automags, custom bodies, triggers, rails, asa, everything is upgadeable execpt the whole valve assembly.

Also might I saw the Automags comunity will always help you out. As you can obviosly see.
Well most of the time. Were no TrasHNation, we are cool lol.

:clap:

Hope it helps

TeamslayerIt's not plastic, it's a composite. Which shares some molecular similarities with plastic. Saying the Ion shell is plastic is like saying the Mazda RX7 is a Porsche.

[yakitori]

It's not plastic, it's a composite. Which shares some molecular similarities with plastic. Saying the Ion shell is plastic is like saying the Mazda RX7 is a Porsche.

no, he said the whole gun was plastic. He doesnt know the difference between powdercoated aluminum and plastic. :p

[WARPED1]

Ah, I see. Yeah, only the outer interchangeable sleeve and stock trigger are polymer. Strange is working on an aluminum quick change body. It's not done in the milling. You unscrew the endcap, loosen a bolt and the internals slide out the back to be lubed/cleaned. Strangler feedneck included.
http://tinypic.com/4lhd2p

[JimmyBeam]

there needs to be a Tac One body made for the Ion

[WARPED1]

there needs to be a Tac One body made for the Ion
That would look cool for the scenario ballers out there! :) Not my cup of tea, but would look great for those that really like the TAC. I'd like to see an XMag type Ion body.

[Pyroboy597]

Get the Ion:

My ion is quieter than almost any other high end gun... perfect for your sneaking up on people, mags are loud.
MY ion weighs less than two pounds.. mags weigh like 2.5 (which is a lot)

Ions are tough... when there is something wrong.. most stores can fix it while many people are new to mags.

ion is cheaper. Mags need to be upgraded.

ion is fast.. in case you ever go into speedball

yea... its better than a mag.

[WARPED1]

Get the Ion:

My ion is quieter than almost any other high end gun... perfect for your sneaking up on people, mags are loud.
MY ion weighs less than two pounds.. mags weigh like 2.5 (which is a lot)

Ions are tough... when there is something wrong.. most stores can fix it while many people are new to mags.

ion is cheaper. Mags need to be upgraded.

ion is fast.. in case you ever go into speedball

yea... its better than a mag.
I agree. I like mags, I've owned only 4 including an Emag. They are loud, I like them for rec games, the Ion is tourney ready out of the box. It doesn't need upgrades, but I'd get a Freak or other kit, and a NDZ or CP trigger. All you need for loader is like an eVLution 2 really, people are getting HALO B's and loving them though on the Ion. I'm looking for a eVLution now, I only have a Reloader A.
http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/23000/ion_tank_st_rs.JPG

[slade]

there needs to be a Tac One body made for the Ion
yay, making it easier for people to confuse smart parts guns with mags that were out before the sp guns! :rolleyes: i dont think a tac one style shell would sell well though because the ion is more of a hype speedball gun, not many scenario people would buy them. some would, but not many, not enough to make it all that profitable.

thats a pretty nice body from strange, but i think deadlywind could (and will, maybe has) do better.

oh yeah, is the ion frame composite?

and i still REALLY hate the ion reg/foregrip. :tard:

[yakitori]

yay, making it easier for people to confuse smart parts guns with mags that were out before the sp guns! :rolleyes: i dont think a tac one style shell would sell well though because the ion is more of a hype speedball gun, not many scenario people would buy them. some would, but not many, not enough to make it all that profitable.

thats a pretty nice body from strange, but i think deadlywind could (and will, maybe has) do better.

oh yeah, is the ion frame composite?

and i still REALLY hate the ion reg/foregrip. :tard:


no the frame is not composite. I said that on page two, but this long thread, so I dont expect everyone to read it all.

The Ion has an aluminum body, grip frame, reg (covered w/ rubber), barrel, feedneck. The only things that are composite on the gun are the sleeve body (shell is kinda like a cellphone cover), the trigger, and the bolt. Everything else is aluminum w/ powdercoat. Everyone thinks the whole gun is plastic, which is not true.

Next time I take it apart and lube, Ill take pics and post them.

[mark_1791]

Okay all, I've got some Ion questions for you!

Trigger:
Which triggers are made for the Ion? Is it just CP and NDZ? Are there others? Which is best? What are they like?

Reg:
Is it just a normal ASA twist-off reg? So can I just replace it with another reg, I.E. CP, etc.?

Barrel:
What threading is it? Shocker?

Feedneck:
How are they replaced? Is it threaded? What kind of threading? Are there special Ion feednecks? What kind of feednecks are there?

Air:
I can run it on a HP tank, right? Does it really matter that much to get a LP tank?

I'm now liking what I hear about the Ion, but I would DEFINITLY want to upgrade it. Screw "out of the box" crap, I want a good reg!

EDIT: Are they compareable to Shockers?

[Glickman]

there needs to be a Tac One body made for the Ion

HINT HINT

theres gonna be an awsome karta body for it soon, another +1 to getting it.

nah, more like a +34 :D

[mark_1791]

Hrmm...I wonder how much the Ion Karta will cost...

[Lohman446]

Just a note on input pressure. I left teh reg on there (thinking about gutting it though) and have the max-flo set at abuot 700lbs input to it

[yakitori]

actually the stock reg is not all that bad. That would not be the first thing I get for a stock Ion. I would start w/ the barrel. Then maybe a QEV which will allow you to lower your dwell significantly and allow a smoother operation, and better efficiency. Then I would prolly go w/ a trigger.

There are CP, FBM delrin, THEBETTERONE, NDZ triggers, and maybe a couple more.

Then if you feel it is necessary, you can get a reg.

Impulse threads on barrel and feedneck
You can use a HP tank, in fact they recommend it.

clippard QEV and quick disconnect from www.airsoldier.com for 15 bucks.

remove the front banjo fitting, put teflon tape on the QEV, install QEV (but dont try to screw all the way in, stop when it is in far enough and lines up w/ the hoses. Lower the dwell on the board to about 10 blinks, which translates to a dwell of 5.5ms. Lower your inline pressure and go rechrono. Mines running at 120psi and a dwell of 5.5ms.

You can take the stock trigger out, remove the magnet, heat it w/ a lighter for a couple seconds on each side, reinstall, check the tension, repeat until you get the trigger pull light as you want it. Heating weakens the magnet and lightens the pull. It helps tremendously.

[WARPED1]

Okay all, I've got some Ion questions for you!

Trigger:
Which triggers are made for the Ion? Is it just CP and NDZ? Are there others? Which is best? What are they like?CP and NDZ are it as far as I know

Reg:
Is it just a normal ASA twist-off reg? So can I just replace it with another reg, I.E. CP, etc.?yes

Barrel:
What threading is it? Shocker?Impulse

Feedneck:
How are they replaced? Is it threaded? What kind of threading? Are there special Ion feednecks? What kind of feednecks are there?Impulse thread, replaced like normal.

Air:
I can run it on a HP tank, right? Does it really matter that much to get a LP tank?SP recommends HP tank

I'm now liking what I hear about the Ion, but I would DEFINITLY want to upgrade it. Screw "out of the box" crap, I want a good reg!regs fine, I'm getting +/- 4FPS or so

EDIT: Are they compareable to Shockers?kinda
All my answers above!

[mark_1791]

Thanks for the help guys. So here's what I'm thinking:

Ion (duh)
CP 2-piece barrel
CP feedneck
CP Trigger
QEV

I already have:
68/45 HP tank
CP drop
CP on/off

Maybe:
CP shorty reg

If y'all can't tell, I <3 CP!

[WARPED1]

I'm getting a black or chrome SFT Shocker reg. Stainless Freak back.

[Glickman]

Thanks for the help guys. So here's what I'm thinking:
Ion (duh)
CP 2-piece barrel
CP feedneck
CP Trigger
QEV
I already have:
68/45 HP tank
CP drop
CP on/off
Maybe:
CP shorty reg
If y'all can't tell, I <3 CP!

cant think of a better list :D :clap:

although.... a karta would be nice :clap:

[yakitori]

cant think of a better list :D :clap:

although.... a karta would be nice :clap:

its not a karta body. Its called Foehn. It is however a deadlywind body, but they arent out yet I dont think. It is supposedly somewhere in the range of 150 bucks. I would personally wait for the Strange body since you can unscrew the back remove the bolt w/o disassembling the marker and lube and replace. Makes maintainance so much faster and easier.

Nice list so far. I would prolly go w/ a no rise feedneck though. CCM makes some nice ones.

Stiffi barrels are better than CP barrels too, and will make your setup that much nicer. :D.

CP triggers are nice though. Also, throw some hybrid grips on there and itll be lookin sweet.

[Dragunzfly]

Well if you go with the ION then you could do a trigger "mod" to it and it makes the trigger pull almost like .5 oz. i dont know if its that but it sure isnt as hard as a stock mag. ut i love mags too!

[Lohman446]

Stiffi barrels are better than CP barrels too, and will make your setup that much nicer. :D.
.

You've done reasonably well so far at posting well thought out, defendable positions. So I ask you on this - why? I'll give you weight immediatly, but what else? I don't see any quantitative data to support this.

[yakitori]

You've done reasonably well so far at posting well thought out, defendable positions. So I ask you on this - why? I'll give you weight immediatly, but what else? I don't see any quantitative data to support this.

ya hold on a sec. Ill go get my years worth of numerical data to support my reasoning. :P j/k

Heres some of my opinion, most of which doesnt take a statisical study to prove. Most of it is blatantly obvious if you have both barrels and use both back to back to do a comparison.

Sound (quiet)
Customer service
Appearance
Zero coefficient of expansion
wont sweat (aluminum does)
Strong barrels
No ano to scratch up (or match to your gun)


I personally feel they have given me tighter groupings than my CP barrels have. Have I dont research on it? No. This is my personal testimony. I just felt he wanted a CP barrel because everything he listed was CP.

IMO, that is what makes stiffi barrels nicer than CP barrels. But its preference.

CPs are cheaper though, and you can use battle swabs on them.

[Glickman]

its not a karta body. Its called Foehn. It is however a deadlywind body, but they arent out yet I dont think. It is supposedly somewhere in the range of 150 bucks. I would personally wait for the Strange body since you can unscrew the back remove the bolt w/o disassembling the marker and lube and replace. Makes maintainance so much faster and easier.

Nice list so far. I would prolly go w/ a no rise feedneck though. CCM makes some nice ones.

Stiffi barrels are better than CP barrels too, and will make your setup that much nicer. :D.

CP triggers are nice though. Also, throw some hybrid grips on there and itll be lookin sweet.

yes, but i have heard that a karta is in the process somewhere on this forum, so hopefully its true :clap:

[JimmyBeam]

yes, but i have heard that a karta is in the process somewhere on this forum, so hopefully its true :clap:


its true. hopefully they are working on a removable back piece for it too

[mark_1791]

ya hold on a sec. Ill go get my years worth of numerical data to support my reasoning. :P j/k

Heres some of my opinion, most of which doesnt take a statisical study to prove. Most of it is blatantly obvious if you have both barrels and use both back to back to do a comparison.

Sound (quiet)
Customer service
Appearance
Zero coefficient of expansion
wont sweat (aluminum does)
Strong barrels
No ano to scratch up (or match to your gun)


I personally feel they have given me tighter groupings than my CP barrels have. Have I dont research on it? No. This is my personal testimony. I just felt he wanted a CP barrel because everything he listed was CP.

IMO, that is what makes stiffi barrels nicer than CP barrels. But its preference.

CPs are cheaper though, and you can use battle swabs on them.
What is sweating?
Are stiffis really worth the extra $40?

[yakitori]

What is sweating?
Are stiffis really worth the extra $40?

well at High ROF w/ my viking, the barrel gets so cold from decompression that moisture can develop on the barrel. Also if the temperature change is enough it can cause the barrel to get condensation on it. Probably not a worry for you since you live in TX. :D.

The stiffi is worth the extra $$ to me, but you may not think so. CPs are cheap and nice. They are great bang for the buck. Im just into stiffis.

Dont listen to me though, its your money and gun. Put whatever ups on it you like.

[yakitori]

Anyone provide a source for the Karta body for Ions.

Ive not heard anything about a karta. I have heard of the Foehn, but thats it. I will email Colin and ask him. This is new news to me.

[FlynnRuss Productions]

With all due respect your opinion is worth pretty close to ZERO if you do not back it with reasons. Yes I have owned or do own both markers.


Ha. Please. And I guess your opinion matters? I was simply giving my OPINION, yes I said opinion. Go away.

[Lohman446]

Ha. Please. And I guess your opinion matters? I was simply giving my OPINION, yes I said opinion. Go away.



With all due respect your opinion is worth pretty close to ZERO if you do not back it with reasons. Yes I have owned or do own both markers.

You need to read the entirety of the post and make the consideration. To come on and state "mags are better" or "Ions are better" or to even say "the Angel G7 is better" is of very little use if you do not state some reasoning. The reasons one marker is better than teh other is seldom based on quanitative analysis of all of the factors, and mostly based on qualitative analysis. Perhaps the reason you think mags are better is important to the person asking - perhaps it isn't. If you at least state a reason then he can weigh why you have come to your conclusion, and decide if he himself would reach that same conclusion.

[doober]

sorry if you answered this...

but from what i've read(correct me if i'm wrong) the ion has POLYMER BODY, Plastic Trigger, and metal triggerframe and reciever

[yakitori]

sorry if you answered this...

but from what i've read(correct me if i'm wrong) the ion has POLYMER BODY, Plastic Trigger, and metal triggerframe and reciever

chimed a little late there didnt ya. Im sorry ppl havent noticed, but plastic is a polymer. So is polyurethane. It still has characteristics of plastic. Thats why ppl refer to it as plastic.

[anonymousbill123]

i have a, what used to be, minimag. both guns would pretty much be the same in accuracy. accuracy is basically a matter of the barrel and tank u use.

*the mag is lighter.

*the mag has a slimmer design.

*mag can shoot up to 26 bps without losing pressure in the valve

*mag is the only gun you can get a bolt for that wont chop balls

*mag is more durable (less moving parts (only valve has moving parts and never breaks))

*customer service is awsome for mags. Free valve repair for each star (usually 4 stars) only pay for shipping

mag all the way!

[anonymousbill123]

Get the Ion:

My ion is quieter than almost any other high end gun... perfect for your sneaking up on people, mags are loud.
MY ion weighs less than two pounds.. mags weigh like 2.5 (which is a lot)

Ions are tough... when there is something wrong.. most stores can fix it while many people are new to mags.

ion is cheaper. Mags need to be upgraded.

ion is fast.. in case you ever go into speedball

yea... its better than a mag.


Shut up!

mags are as quiet if not quieter. mags are more expensive becuz they are better guns and are better quality. e-mags and x-mags faster. ions need to be upgraded too. in fact mags have better upgrades and they are easier to select from.

PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX MAGS BECAUSE:

1)mags dont break!
2)cheap to send back to factory (free valve repair (only thing that ever breaks on the mag and is rare))

[JimmyBeam]

Shut up!

mags are as quiet if not quieter. mags are more expensive becuz they are better guns and are better quality. e-mags and x-mags faster. ions need to be upgraded too. in fact mags have better upgrades and they are easier to select from.

PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX MAGS BECAUSE:

1)mags dont break!
2)cheap to send back to factory (free valve repair (only thing that ever breaks on the mag and is rare))


ignorance is bliss isnt it

[Lohman446]

i have a, what used to be, minimag. both guns would pretty much be the same in accuracy. accuracy is basically a matter of the barrel and tank u use.

*the mag is lighter.

Ohh.. good point, but not true, at least stock to stock


*the mag has a slimmer design.[quote]
Maybe... its not much

[quote]*mag can shoot up to 26 bps without losing pressure in the valve
Good luck getting there though with legal trigger pulls, or with the stock programmed ramping in the mag - oh wait that doesn't exist


*mag is the only gun you can get a bolt for that wont chop balls
A well tuned level ten, even if it works correctly requires a cylce of the marker, eyes don't


*mag is more durable (less moving parts (only valve has moving parts and never breaks))
Probably more durable, yet to be proven. And as for moving parts... how many moving parts do you think an Ion has

[slade]

Get the Ion:

My ion is quieter than almost any other high end gun... perfect for your sneaking up on people, mags are loud.
MY ion weighs less than two pounds.. mags weigh like 2.5 (which is a lot)

Ions are tough... when there is something wrong.. most stores can fix it while many people are new to mags.

ion is cheaper. Mags need to be upgraded.

ion is fast.. in case you ever go into speedball

yea... its better than a mag.
ions are tough... that made me laugh. its made by smart parts, they have the quality control of brass eagle. not that i would know from personal experience, but i seriously doubt ions are all that tough or durable, especially since the $300 price screams of costs being cut everywhere. and i find it funny that you brought that against mags, considering how durable mags are. every problem my mag has had with one exception was due to it breaking in or tuning (what i did to it) which were all easy fixes. the exception was a spring breaking which was also an easy fix.

true that ions are most likely quieter, ill give you that.

i dont know what the weights are, but seriously a ULEd mag is light enough that you should have nothing to complain about

ions ARE cheaper, but an rt ule custom would not need a single upgrade to be a great gun for what he is looking for. an ion could use a few upgrades.

an ion is fast but speed is not what he is looking for... and a mag is fine for rec speedball. tourneys ok ill give you that, something faster would be nice.


however, i still say a mech cocker would be the best option for what he is looking for, it fits everything except maybe reliability and mech cockers are dirt cheap.

[peewee]

If you havent used the marker you shouldnt be talking. As far as QC at smart parts you make me laugh because it is a far cry better than BE. SP is one of the longest standing aftermarket barrel makers out there. The all american barrel was the barrel to have on a mag in the early to mid 90's. Still a great barrel. They also have many been producing several of the best tourney markers used for the last decade. In the last local event that I attended ( last weekend) I can honestly say that there was only one team out of +20 teams that didnt have an SP gun in the mix. Interestingly enough 70ish % were ions. NO issues with anyones guns.

[DudeyouraresoEmo]

i own a mag and at my job i sell Ions. An Ion is a cheap, but reliable gun, although running CO2 when you are playing scenerio may be a little rough if it is cold, not to mention a big puff every time you shot. A mag is more expensive though and may not be the gun for you ( I am trying to hold back my view of mags) I think a mag would be a solid gun that would with stand mcuh dropping and tumbling, but an Ion would be cheaper, and maybe easier for a beginner.

[Jakedubbleya]

No real debate here. The ion performs BETTER in many IMPORTANT aspects when compared to your average mag, and just as well in the rest.

No, tolerances are not directly performance related.
---
You can pay an ungodly amount for a devilmag and still have worse efficiency.

Or you can buy the 270$ ion, that does just as good a job as any other gun in the areas we actually KNOW about.

Case closed. And no, i didnt read the whole thread, so if i missed out on something dont be too harsh:)

[yakitori]

its funny that ppl are not reading the thread and posting arguments that have already been made.

The only part that moves on the Ion is the internal bolt and solenoid plunger. And the inline reg.

Stock Ion is only 2.2 lbs. Less w/ the stiffi on mine.

The only thing that has been done to cut costs that I know of is the composite shell and powdercoated aluminum.