Scuba Tanks

[jenarelJAM]

ok, i went to the local scuba shop today to get my tank filled(first time ive been there) and the guy mentioned that he's selling a size 92 scuba tank(whats that in, cubic feet??) for $100 and a hpa fill station for $40. i dont think i can raise the money in the alotted time(got to pay off a $100 debt first), but i was wondering how good a deal you think it is, and how much having your own fill station helps. i figure that it would be nice to be able to have all day air wherever i go for free(most fields around here let you birng your own scuba), and it would be nice to be able to work on my gun and always have air. one of my friend's friends has a large backyard and they have played some light paintabll back there(i've never seen it, this is what he tells me) and if that pools out, i think having my own hpa tank could prove VERY helpful. i figure that to blunt some of the cost, i could charge people(a select few) around $1 a fill. i can get some money fairly fast, and its pretty cheap for whoever needs the fill. i figure that it also saves me hpa fills if i go anywhere other than my usual field(i ref, so free paint, air, admission) after a few times playing at other fields and charging my friends for air, it should pay partly for itself.
does anyone find that a hpa tank is extremely worthwhile? or if you think it would be so for me? i have a small 45/45 tank, an emag, and am addicted to paintball, if that helps.
also, what are usual prices for scuba tanks? i know that fill stations can be bought online for around $40-$50. thanks
-JAM

[Halliday]

I couldn't read all of that. $100 is good for a tank, esp 92 size. I got my 80's used for $100. The price of the fill stations is a killer, about $40-50 each.

I like having my own scuba tanks. When I go to lackluster fields I can make sure I have air and sell a little bit to pay for filling my tanks next week :)

[AGD202]

ok, i went to the local scuba shop today to get my tank filled(first time ive been there) and the guy mentioned that he's selling a size 92 scuba tank(whats that in, cubic feet??) for $100 and a hpa fill station for $40. i dont think i can raise the money in the alotted time(got to pay off a $100 debt first), but i was wondering how good a deal you think it is, and how much having your own fill station helps. i figure that it would be nice to be able to have all day air wherever i go for free(most fields around here let you birng your own scuba), and it would be nice to be able to work on my gun and always have air. one of my friend's friends has a large backyard and they have played some light paintabll back there(i've never seen it, this is what he tells me) and if that pools out, i think having my own hpa tank could prove VERY helpful. i figure that to blunt some of the cost, i could charge people(a select few) around $1 a fill. i can get some money fairly fast, and its pretty cheap for whoever needs the fill. i figure that it also saves me hpa fills if i go anywhere other than my usual field(i ref, so free paint, air, admission) after a few times playing at other fields and charging my friends for air, it should pay partly for itself.
does anyone find that a hpa tank is extremely worthwhile? or if you think it would be so for me? i have a small 45/45 tank, an emag, and am addicted to paintball, if that helps.
also, what are usual prices for scuba tanks? i know that fill stations can be bought online for around $40-$50. thanks
-JAM

Really Good Deal, i got a 100 cu. ft. tank for 120 and the fill stations are like $80....
and if u got a huge tank on ur gun... ull drain the tank pretty fast... when my bro puts his 91ci on mine it takes it from 3k to 2,7k in just one fill

[jenarelJAM]

alright, ill see what i can do. im reffing this weekend on saturday, but ill see if i can work for my dad on sunday(mothers day, ack) and get another chunk payed off. the guy also said i can put a down payment on it. i didnt ask how much, but i think i could find enough money to put a down payment on it, or if i work this weekend, convince my parents to let me borrow the money for the down payment because i'm working off the debt. thanks for the help.


and if u got a huge tank on ur gun... ull drain the tank pretty fast... when my bro puts his 91ci on mine it takes it from 3k to 2,7k in just one fill
i have a 45/45 tank (mentioned above) so how much wuold you expect it to go down per fill? a little over 100 psi? that would be superb. also, instead of measuring how many fills youg et off the tank, ahs anyone measured how many shots they get off the tank with a mag, because i figure that i can get around the same number of shots, and i dont care how often i have to fill my 45/45 if i can fill it after every game or so.

[Faddy]

If you have a 45/45, you won't get 4500 on your tank. Most scubas are rated for 3k, my brother has one that's rated for 3300. You should be able to get 5 or 6 good (over 2kpsi) fills on a 45ci. But you can probably get another 4 or 5 over 1500. Sounds kinda sucky, but you can always refill between games, so it works well for him.

[Hybrid]

awesome deal.

if that deal was near me, id jump on it. i need to buy a couple scuba tanks soon.

[yingyang]

How much air does the 90 hold? And cant you just fill your tank from the scuba tank or what does the hpa station do?

[Lee]

thats a good deal. i don't use mine at fields though as most places around here are prohibited by insurance from allowing you to use your own tank to fill.

i think it's very handy for teching ast home though. pita to need to shoot your marker and not have air handy.

also, with all day air at most fields for reasonable prices, a tank is just something extra to lug around and you don't get full fills. and, each subsequent fill is less and less as the pressure in the scuba goes down.

i do reccomend you get this though for the teching and fun factor of having your own air at home.

[seanpeek]

I worked at a dive shop for three years and the price of the tank sounds like it could be a good deal. Here is the thing that you want to look out for. Look to see if the tank is still in hydro. Scuba tanks need a hydro every 5 years and a visual test every year. The vip is cheep ($15). The hydro is a bit more expensive ($40). If the tank is out of hydro the price can quickly jump up to 140 for the tank alone. Another thing, look and see if the tank is aluminum. If so, don't buy it if it is older than 1988. Some store will not fill older Luxfer aluminum cylinders because of rupture problems. The pressure rating is what you are really interested in. Your 45/45 is 45 cubic inches of air only when it is filled to 4500 psi. If you have less pressure, you have less gas. If you have a SCUBA tank that is rated to 3500, 3000, or even 2250, you are not getting 45 cubic feet of air in your paintball cylider. If I were you, I would try to find a HP tank. This means that the SCUBA tank can be filled to 3500psi. This is the highest they come right now. Sadly, this will only give your paintball tank 35 cubic inches of gas. It will never be a 45 cubic inch tank w/o 4500 psi of pressure in it. I use a HP SCUBA tank (3500 psi) to fill my 88/4500 paintball tank. At 3500 psi I am only using a 68 cubic inch tank. 68 cubic inches lasts me a while. Your tank at 35 cubic inch tank at 3500psi will not last as long. Sorry if this is long and confusing, but pressure and volume can be a bit hard to grasp. If you have any questions about the math, PM me. You can figure out how much pressure you will lose everytime you fill with some simple math.

[jenarelJAM]

I worked at a dive shop for three years and the price of the tank sounds like it could be a good deal. Here is the thing that you want to look out for. Look to see if the tank is still in hydro. Scuba tanks need a hydro every 5 years and a visual test every year. The vip is cheep ($15). The hydro is a bit more expensive ($40). If the tank is out of hydro the price can quickly jump up to 140 for the tank alone. Another thing, look and see if the tank is aluminum. If so, don't buy it if it is older than 1988. Some store will not fill older Luxfer aluminum cylinders because of rupture problems. The pressure rating is what you are really interested in. Your 45/45 is 45 cubic inches of air only when it is filled to 4500 psi. If you have less pressure, you have less gas. If you have a SCUBA tank that is rated to 3500, 3000, or even 2250, you are not getting 45 cubic feet of air in your paintball cylider. If I were you, I would try to find a HP tank. This means that the SCUBA tank can be filled to 3500psi. This is the highest they come right now. Sadly, this will only give your paintball tank 35 cubic inches of gas. It will never be a 45 cubic inch tank w/o 4500 psi of pressure in it. I use a HP SCUBA tank (3500 psi) to fill my 88/4500 paintball tank. At 3500 psi I am only using a 68 cubic inch tank. 68 cubic inches lasts me a while. Your tank at 35 cubic inch tank at 3500psi will not last as long. Sorry if this is long and confusing, but pressure and volume can be a bit hard to grasp. If you have any questions about the math, PM me. You can figure out how much pressure you will lose everytime you fill with some simple math.
wow, that was a great post, alot of helpful info there. the tank is a steel tank and can be filled to 3200 psi, i think that is high enough for me.i was also searching online and found a 72cf tank for $65. it said it was in hydro, but i dont know by how much, i emailed the guy asking how long until it needs to be hydroed and how old the tnak is. i didnt think to ask what pressure its rated for, i'll ask when/if he emails me back. keep the advice coming please. thanks

[seanpeek]

Those steel 72 are great tanks for SCUBA diving, but there pressure rating is around 2250 psi. That means if you fill your paintball cylinder from the 72 when it is totally full, you will only get 22.5 cubic inches in your 45 cubic inch tank. You have essentially cut you 45 in half. Another thing, there are two neck sizes that those old 72 came in. Make sure you are not getting a 72 with a 1/2-inch neck. They don't make valves to fit them anymore. The tank will most likely be very old (1960's even). Since the tank is steel it lasts much longer than aluminum. Again, look for a tank that has a pressure rating of at least 3000psi. The volume is important too, but that will only affect how much pressure drop you see between fills. More cubic feet = less pressure drop. The 92/3200 sounds like it would be a great deal. If you can't work it out, look for an aluminum 80 cylinder. This is the most common cylinder made for diving. Brand-new you should be able to buy one for less than $150, used I imagine much less than that. Since cash seems to be a bit of an issue, this might be a good option. Hope this all helps.

[Mer]

Those steel 72 are great tanks for SCUBA diving, but there pressure rating is around 2250 psi. That means if you fill your paintball cylinder from the 72 when it is totally full, you will only get 22.5 cubic inches in your 45 cubic inch tank. You have essentially cut you 45 in half.

Not quite,

You will only get 2250 psi in your tank. If you have a 45 cubic inch tank it's always going to be 45 cubic inches in volume, there's no way to change that.

They don't use the same measuring system in paintball tanks as they do in scuba tanks.

Area of a cylinder = pie * r squared * height

If you take an average 47 cubic inch tank with internal measurements of about 4" diameter x 7" high it works out to be about 47 cubic inches.

Take an "80 cubic foot" scuba tank approximately 8" in diameter and about 3 feet tall and apply the same formula. It'll work out to less than 3 cubic feet "actual" volume. The 80 cubic feet is how much "unpressurized" air it will hold at rated pressure. Paintball tanks are measured in actual unpressurized volume.

That's why a 68/3000 tank is the same size as a 68/4500 tank. The difference is the 4500 psi tank will hold more air because of the higher pressure. They're both 68 cubic inches internal volume though.


Eric

[jewie27]

Just remember that you won't ever be able to fill your paintball tank up to 4500 psi. Also, one SCUBA tank won't give you enough pressure.

You'll need to do some "cascading".

As in filling up from at least two or even better three SCUBA tanks.

I recommend starting with an aluminum 80, which holds 3000 psi.

Then hook it up to a high pressure steel @ 3500 psi.

To give it an extra boost, get this fiber wrapped SCUBA tank that puts out 4350 psi: very high pressure SCUBA tank (http://www.scuba-necessities.com/scuba-gear/index.php/main_page/product_info/manufacturers_id/11/products_id/326)


At my SCUBA shop, fills are 5 bucks per SCUBA tank. If you charged your friends a dollar per fill, it would easily pay for itself. You may even make a couple bucks.

An aluminum 80 should cost around $109 new.




I currently own a PST Steel 100 @ 3442 psi.

[seanpeek]

Mer,
Thanks for the info on paintball volume ratings. I didn't know that it was measured unpresurized. However, it makes no difference what the volume number is. If the tank is not filled to 4500 psi, it is not filled to its potential volume (what ever number that is). The argument still stands, the higher pressure the better. If Jam fills his tank with a SCUBA cylinder rated to 2250, he is still cutting the "potential" tank volume in half. This is not such a big deal with a larger tank (say 68/45 or 88/45) because you get more volume per PSI than with a 45/45. His tank will become empty much faster than my 88/45 filled to 2250.

As far as cascading goes, that is just way to much work and money to fill a paintball tank. It is true that it is the best way to optimize the gas in the SCUBA tanks, but if money is not an issue, why not just get a haskel pump. That way you can pump your paintball tank to whatever pressure you want and maximize the amount of gas from the SCUBA tanks as well. It seems easier to just go pay for a fill from the dude at the field. However, that new Luxfer tank is really cool. I didn't know that they had started making those yet. I had heard that they might. Right on!!! To bad it is not steel.

[SlartyBartFast]

As far as cascading goes, that is just way to much work and money to fill a paintball tank. It is true that it is the best way to optimize the gas in the SCUBA tanks, but if money is not an issue, why not just get a haskel pump.

You have got to be kidding. :rofl:

Open valve 1, close valve one. Open valve 2, close valve 2. Far too much work. :rolleyes:

And how can you compare ~100$ for second SCUBA and a few more dolars for fittings and valves with a mulit-thousand dollar booster?!? :nono:

[SlartyBartFast]

To bad it is aluminium.

Why? That's what the majority of paintball tanks are made with.

Sure there were problems with old tanks back in the 80's but things have evolved a little since then. :rolleyes:

[seanpeek]

Why? That's what the majority of paintball tanks are made with.

Sure there were problems with old tanks back in the 80's but things have evolved a little since then. :rolleyes:

That was kind of a joke for all the divers out there. I like to dive with steel tanks. I don't have anything against aluminum. I use catalina 80 for my deco cylinders. 4300 psi in steel would be negative after the dive rather than positive like aluminum. I am guessing that with that much pressure there would be a lot of positive when it is empty. More weight.

I was joking about the haskel too. It is still a pain to tote around three SCUBA tanks. Filling is the easy part. Also, you can't get a 4300 psi tank like the one mentioned above for just $100 more. At the end of the day, starting from scratch, I would guess that it would cost more than $500 to get set up with a cascade system like mentioned above. 80/3000, 102/3500, and the tank mentioned above 4300psi from Luxfer. Add in all the fittings and valves. So, probably even more. I think that keeping it simple is plenty good for most of us. Remember, the original post was asking if a 92/3200 is a good deal for $100 and if it would work fine for him. In my opinion, absoultly.

[Mer]

If the tank is not filled to 4500 psi, it is not filled to its potential volume (what ever number that is). The argument still stands, the higher pressure the better.

Definitely!! :cheers:

No argument here, higher pressure = more air = more shots = more fun!!

I have 2 scuba tanks labeled 1 and 2. Tank 1 is the "volume tank" and is always the first fill. This one does the bulk of the work. Tank 2 is the "topper" and gets the pressure up to or really close to 3000 psi. Using this method I can get about 6 fills that are really close to 3000 psi. Quite a bunch after that. I just had to take my 2 tanks in for hydro, inspection and fills. $78 total for the pair and I'm good to go.

Take Care,

Eric

[seanpeek]

Definitely!! :cheers:

No argument here, higher pressure = more air = more shots = more fun!!

I have 2 scuba tanks labeled 1 and 2. Tank 1 is the "volume tank" and is always the first fill. This one does the bulk of the work. Tank 2 is the "topper" and gets the pressure up to or really close to 3000 psi. Using this method I can get about 6 fills that are really close to 3000 psi. Quite a bunch after that. I just had to take my 2 tanks in for hydro, inspection and fills. $78 total for the pair and I'm good to go.

Take Care,

Eric

I know how expensive those damb tanks can get. Sometimes on long deco dives I will use 6 tanks including my argon suit cylinder. Every year they all need hydro. One suggestion, you can look at the DOT website and find retesting facilities in you area. These places usually charge way less than a dive shop will. I pay about $15 a cylinder. Including my paintball cylinder.

[SlartyBartFast]

I was joking about the haskel too. It is still a pain to tote around three SCUBA tanks.

Completely agree.

Lost in this discussion is how much paint is shot per game. You only need enough air in your tank to shoot the paint you carry on to the field.

[ColdFuzion]

Someone posted the area formula above, but was wrong. A cylinder is '2(pi radius^2)+(2 pi radius)height'... And, that is a good price on both tank and fill station. Where I play every other weekend (1 weekend at field one, other at field two), we bring SCUBA tanks, and it works fine. You just have to fill more often.

-Cold

[Mer]

Volume of a cylinder is pi x radius squared x height.

http://www.equationsheet.com/eqninfo/Equation-79.html

Eric

[jenarelJAM]

sry, been neglecting this thread for a bit, well here goes

the 4300 psi tank is *just* out of my price range (cough cough) and even the $100 tank might be out of my price range, because I have to pay off somewhere between $50 and $100 in debt to my folks first. the tank should not be around for long(i dont knwo if its even still there, might already be gone) but the guy selling it is nice and offered to let me put a down payment on it to reserve it(not sure if i already mentioned that above?)
i think that cascading is a great idea, but i dont care much about getting the full 3000 psi every time. as long as I can get enough air for one game, i can fill it up again at the end of the game. as far as getting the money from my friends, it will nto become a major money-making idea, because i only have a few friends who use hpa(more on the way). most still use co2 and spyders. also, I don't go paintballing super often, though i try to go every couple weeks, but my friends go far less often, because they dont ref, and are paying for paint and admission out of their own pockets. basicly i have to cycle my friends... hehe. a couple of em play one week, a few others 2 weeks later, 2 weeks later, another group, 2 weeks later, the first group has saved up enough money to go again, etc. the main reason i want the scuba is so that if i play at other fields than where i ref at, i can take paint(free), take my own air(saving $10 or so each time) and just pay between 10-20$ for admission, and shoot a case of paint. a few times of that and it saves me alot of cash. the biggest problem, is getting the cash upfront in order to buy this tank before it geos off the market.

thanks again for all the great and helpful posts above, keep posting, its fun learning all this stuff.

[seanpeek]

Good luck hunting. Just to break it down one last time. Higher pressure = more gas per game. Higher volume = more fills. Hope all this helps. Thanks for such a good thread!

[jewie27]

You have got to be kidding. :rofl:

Open valve 1, close valve one. Open valve 2, close valve 2. Far too much work. :rolleyes:

And how can you compare ~100$ for second SCUBA and a few more dolars for fittings and valves with a mulit-thousand dollar booster?!? :nono:


Slow filling is best and safer. Don't open the valve all the way at first.

[funeralplanner]

Okay, what about this.....

Rent one of the big 4-5 foot tanks and fill from those. A 3 or 5 year rental is 100 bucks or something and a fill is 15 or so. I'm not sure of the pressure is why I'm asking about this method. Might have to put a regulator on the tank, and those aren't cheap. Just wondered if anyone has done this.

FP

[alooney11]

i would get those tanks man, having air is crucial.

[jenarelJAM]

alright, just put my $50 down payment on the tank today. now i owe around 130$ to my mom, dad owes me around $20, friend owes me around $20, and i have a spyder imagine package w/ misc ups and parts that i'm going to sell for $130 on craigslist.org. hoping i can sell it within a week or two, that way i wont even need to work for my dad at all and i can finish the down payment. then i've got to save up for a ~$40~ fill station. is the HSL fill station they have at pbgear.com any good? it would make it quite easy because among myself and friends, we probably need over $55 in spare parts (ss hose, fill nipple, paint, tank cover etc.) and then we get free shipping.
when i went to the scuba shop today to reserve the tank, i thought he said the tank was actually a 95 cf tank. my other info was also wrong, the tank is rated for 3400 psi. is there such a thing as a 95 cf tank? or is my hearing playing tricks on me?

[seanpeek]

Then i've got to save up for a ~$40~ fill station. is the HSL fill station they have at pbgear.com any good? it would make it quite easy because among myself and friends, we probably need over $55 in spare parts (ss hose, fill nipple, paint, tank cover etc.). My other info was also wrong, the tank is rated for 3400 psi. is there such a thing as a 95 cf tank? or is my hearing playing tricks on me?

Well, I don't know a ton about all the bells and whilstles on fill stations. I do know that I bought mine off of ebay for $16 + shipping. It was brand new and I think it works great. I did't need anything else. Not sure what a SS hose would do except give you some mobility while filling. Check out ebay, you might find something for a little less.

a 95/3400 sounds a little strange. I am guessing that it is a 102/3500. This is a very common Pressed Steel tank. It is possible that the tank is rated for 3400, but I don't recall filling anything rated like that. One thing about HP tanks (higher than 3000psi), they are required to have DIN valves. This is different that a Yoke valve in the sense that you need to screw the sealing o-ring into the tank valve to fill. A yoke will have a smaller bolt that is designed to screw againt the back of the valve and hold the seal in place. You will need to buy a fill adapter to make the DIN valve compatable with the HP fill station you get. Those can be a bit expensive. Check out ebay for a used one. Make sure you look at the tank rating for the exact pressure. You don't want to get something below 3000psi.

Check out this link for info on how to read the numbers on the top of the tank:

http://www.scubatanks.us/markings.htm

The ones you want to look for are the 3AL M124 for Bar or the 3AL #### (4 digit number) in the case or your tank 3442 for PSI. Good luck and keep the questions coming.

[ultralight]

JAM, you should also try to sell yourmarker package on pbn and AO.

everyone else, don't go to dive shops to get your tanks re-hydroed (sp?). look up carbonic gas in the phone book. if they don't do hydro testing then they can tell you who does. i got my 80 cf aluminum tank hydroed for $7.50. dive shops are the most prolific wallet rapists i have ever seen. 2.50 for a tank o-ring? c'mon.

[jenarelJAM]

thanks for the info. sorry if i made it seem like the SS hose was for the tank, its not, its for my gun, i want to upgrade from macro since i'll b putting mroe pressure thru it, and i also want a Q/D.
i'm pretty sure that tank is a 92 cf tank, not the 102/3500 isn't it, because the guy said it is 90 something for sure, and 3400 something psi for sure as well. I'll look around on the classifieds for fill stations, that sounds like a really good idea thanks.
also, i was just planning on craigslist.org because i would prefer not to ship it and then get complaints, i also dont have feedback on AO or pbn. I'll try tho, it couldnt hurt. quick question, i just took out my trigger on my imagine today, cut a different spring down to size, inserted it, and i made the trigger INCREDIBLY light. i took out the trigger spring, stuck a custom one in on the opposite side to lighten the pull even more. think it'll add $5? hehe jk jk, i think i'll stick with the $130 price tag unless something comes up.

[warpspyder]

JAM, you should also try to sell yourmarker package on pbn and AO.

everyone else, don't go to dive shops to get your tanks re-hydroed (sp?). look up carbonic gas in the phone book. if they don't do hydro testing then they can tell you who does. i got my 80 cf aluminum tank hydroed for $7.50. dive shops are the most prolific wallet rapists i have ever seen. 2.50 for a tank o-ring? c'mon.

:rofl: That was great :rofl:

[seanpeek]

everyone else, don't go to dive shops to get your tanks re-hydroed (sp?). look up carbonic gas in the phone book. if they don't do hydro testing then they can tell you who does.

Here is a link to the DOT Hazmat page that I mentioned above.

DOT Hazmat Page For Authorized Hydrostatic Testing Facilities (http://hazmat.dot.gov/exempapp/approvals/hydro/hydro_retesters.htm)

Just click on your state and it will give you a PDF file of all the testing facilities by city. Look for a High Pressure shop and then give them a call. You can look them up in the phone book. Some even test paintball cylinders. I just got mine done for $15. That beats the $40 from my local shop. Hope all this helps.