New to mags, little help?

[GoTcHaSuCcA]

hi, i was wondering if you guys could help me out a bit here. First off i just wana say i'm a complete noob when it comes to mags but i've been into the p-ball world for the better part of 5 years now.... only it was with a imp. Anyways now that the imp is discontinued i'm looking for a new project gun to slowly work on over the course of the next year or so. Building guns from the ground up to their tricked out forms is kinda a hobby of mine... and I think i've now set my sights on a mag. Time + money really isnt an issue as i have a steady job and all the time in the world. I was hopeing you guys could answer a few questions and give me some feed back.

I'm looking to make this a pnumatic set up. I've done electros, i wana try out something different. Besides i hear pnumatic mags have increadbly easy maintence.


ok....
I've looked around and noticably everyone says get the x-valve. OK, not gona argue there... adding it to the preverbial wish list. But a quick question: how bad is the kick of the marker with this valve installed? My friends stock mini mag has some noticable kick to his gun and i want to minimise this as much as possible.

Next i've looked into trigger frames, I was wondeirng what you guys shoot or would recogmend? i just spent the better part of 2 hours lookind up the hAir & PTP but are there no current pnumatic trigger frames that can even remotely match their speed or sensitivity? And what is this inteliframe i hear so much about?

Do i need a horozontal or front grip regulator? Or does the x-valve regulate the psi for you?

Next... a sear. What its purpose and where can i get one? Quick thought.... it wouldnt happen to be the same style sear as that in a spyder (or clone) trigger frame would it?

And lastly (this is what got my heart set on this gun) I'm looking into the karta body with the milled rail..... ahhhh pure sex right there.


Over all, what are your opinions of my dream gun's set up? have i missed anything? And in your opinion... how would all of this compair preformance, but more importantly, weight wise to say a stock bodied imp? Thanks in advance

[Joni]

Welcome to the mag world!

I think I can help with some of your questions

Kick: A lvl10 mag has less kick than a minimag (if it's a lvl7) IMO. The lvl10 bolt weighs less than the lvl7. Since you are used to imps, I can tell you that the kick on my x-valved mag is comparable to my teammates fully upped strange imp.

Pneumatic frame: There isn't anything available on the market right now. PTP is said to release their frame sometime, but when that happens, impossible to say. Although, if you are willing to go seriously custom, some people have made theyre own pneumatic frames. Check the workshop forum here, especially look at phisphens work. He has a nice howto on making a pneumatic frame.

Intelliframe: AGD's two finger trigger frame. Nothing special really, just a high quality mechanical frame with the ability to mount a switch for intellifeeding a rev or warp. If you go for a regular frame there are some other nice options: RPG chimera vert frame, Logic vert frame, AGD Y-frame

Regulator: no need for a regulator besides what you have in your tank, be it adjustable or preset. Make sure that it can feed at least 800 psi, because that's what the mag wants. The Valve has an integrated regulator (the back halve of the valve is a regulator). Adding a third regulator in the mix will only reduce airflow, without adding any performance.

Sear: The mag uses a sear for holding the bolt and closing/opening the on/off in the valve. It has almost no recemblance with a spyder sear. You can get one from AGD or from a AGD dealer, such as Tunaman or Rouge (www.tunamart.com, www.themagsmith.com)

An all ule mag is a lot lighter and smaller than a stock body imp. Some other nice upgrades are snatch grip, clamping feed (I like RPG sub zero), a nice barrel and a hopper :D

Hope I helped

[Maggot6]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33616&highlight=automag+animation Here is a basic animation that shows pretty weel exactly how a mag works. basically, the front end of the sear holds the bolt back whenever you don't pull the trigger. You pull the trigger and it pushes the front of the sear down, so the bolt can be "free". At the same time the back end it pushing up an on/off assembly which then cuts the air flow and gives you a constant steday shot.

I see you like the karta, karta rail, xvalve and you'd want a double trigger. I would suggest an intelliframe(explained in the above guys post, it can be found on airgun.com) a chimera frame (also at the themagsmith.com) or a logic frame(logic-paintball.com or something) (look almost the same, just 90 degree's) And the y grip. Sense alot of people don't like the thought of a y grip (it's shaped like a lower case y) I wouldn't suggest getting it from the start. But some people just love them.
The kick of the marker is pretty well none to speak of. Sure it's not your impulse, but it has so little kick it doesn't matter. The sear costs about 7.50 by the way with the pin..

Also, the only thing that might interest you that is not on your list, is the ULT kit. It is an on/off assembly that makes your pull about 15 oz. Which is alot lighter, but still not electro.
Yeah, a ule mag will beat an impulse for ligthweight I believe..A stock impulse anyway. Welcome to AO. :bounce:

[GoTcHaSuCcA]

alright, thanks for the helpful input guys. Is there anything else i missed? I looked into the custom pnumatic like you suggested Joni and man i have to say that is some serious custom work right there! maybe out of my league right now, but possibly one day when i'm more familiar with mags. Keep the input comming guys this is great.

Oh and can anyone tell me about the hyperframe? has the price come down at all? have they worked out the bugs on it yet? War pig did a review a few years ago and it was $400 at the time and it ended up eating their bolt and sear...... comments anyone?

[jenarelJAM]

i would suggest getting the whole setup, with the exception of the trigger frame. get the karta body, xvalve, karta rail, whatever foregrip you want, and the cheapest trigger frame you can. i'm pretty sure that benchmark frames are pretty cheap. Since you mentioned that you have alot of time to upgrade this marker, i would wait until the ptp trigger comes out, then get that. or you could wait until the ptp comes out to buy the entire gun. tuna sells a nice A+ clamping feedneck, works well for me, but i cant really compare it to anything, because its the first clamping feedneck i've owned. the kick on my emag is almost non-existant. that and the loudness, a mag is quieter than most any marker you see on a rec-ball field, and should hold its own against lp setups as well. i was shooting my emag all day, and it has noticible kick, but its not bad. then i picked up my friend's spyder for a game, and every shot, the thing was thrown back into my shoulder. the mag seemed to have a more gradual and softer recoil every shot, and the spyder had a quick and large amount of recoil, slamming it back into you. as far as a reg, as mentioned above, you only need the tank reg(or do you :D ) and the xvalve. I bought an adjustable tank because the higher input pressure you stick in it, the more reactive the trigger and faster recharge of the bolt.
also, mags are easily the most reliable and low-maintenance marker ever(with the possible exception of vikings, not quite sure about that tho) and should last you forever. since i got my mag, i take it out, beat it up, and bring it home, wipe down the outside, and oil it every couple times i play. no problems so far. the most i take it apart to clean it is taking the barrel off and running water/paper towel through it. the body and bolt never get paint on them, and the outside of the xvalve can be wiped off.

[Joni]

Hyperframes seems to be somewhat dodgy. Some work great, others screw things up. I don't think that they are sold anymore. If you want an electric trigger pull, I suggest getting a used E-mag, they aren't that expensive anymore, or getting a devilmag(www.devilsden.tv)

[kurama]

I've looked around and noticably everyone says get the x-valve. OK, not gona argue there... adding it to the preverbial wish list. But a quick question: how bad is the kick of the marker with this valve installed? My friends stock mini mag has some noticable kick to his gun and i want to minimise this as much as possible.
I don't think it is caused by the valve, but my classic mag kicks quite a bit and my friend's emag doesn't at all. So, I don't really know.


Next i've looked into trigger frames, I was wondeirng what you guys shoot or would recogmend? i just spent the better part of 2 hours lookind up the hAir & PTP but are there no current pnumatic trigger frames that can even remotely match their speed or sensitivity? And what is this inteliframe i hear so much about?
hAir is a dead project basically. PTP's frame is "coming soon", so it is not out yet. No other pneumatic frames exist that aren't at-home jobs. The intelliframe is a double trigger frame for a mag which is capable of being hooked up for intelifeed with a revvy or a warp feed.


Do i need a horozontal or front grip regulator? Or does the x-valve regulate the psi for you?
Nope. The back half of the valve is a regulator.


Next... a sear. What its purpose and where can i get one? Quick thought.... it wouldnt happen to be the same style sear as that in a spyder (or clone) trigger frame would it?
Nope. They're different. Same concept though. The sear can be bought from airgun.com but comes stock with every mag considering it is an essential part for the marker to fire.


Over all, what are your opinions of my dream gun's set up? have i missed anything? And in your opinion... how would all of this compair preformance, but more importantly, weight wise to say a stock bodied imp? Thanks in advance
My best comparison I can do, since I have both markers in my room, is a ULE bodied emag (non-ule frame) to a Freak Factory Impulse. The Emag weighs a bit more, but with an xvalve and a lack of a battery pack, a mag would weigh less than the impulse. With some more ULE on it, it could easily weigh much less. As far as performance, they both kick around the same (which isn't much at all unless you compare it to a matrix...). Heck, about everything but the size seems to be about the same. The Impy is a bit quieter though, but the barrel affects that too much to tell.

[GoTcHaSuCcA]

thats pretty helpful kurama, i just have one more question for you guys.... how good are mags (such as the set up i'm looking at) with air effeciency? I have a 68/4500 psi tank, about how many shots can i expect? Just wana say thanks to everyone's advice, you've all been a big help

[master_alexander]

with my rt i can get about 700-1,000 rounds out of a tank, but it depends on which barrel i use, and it is an rt so the x valve is probably improved a little. I get all day air annyway so ti doesent matter to me...

[Joni]

On a full 4500 fill I get probably 1200-1300 on my 68. Never really tested to it's limit, so its an estimation

[Gumbe]

on my 68, 3000 ith my 12 inch barrle i get 750-800 shots i am gussing......i have a movie clip of a pnumatic frame on a mag shooting..if you want it just give me your e-mail or add me to msn kirbyheffernan@hotmail.com

[GoTcHaSuCcA]

about how consistant is a mag over the crono? I get +/- 3 fps with my impy now.... can i expect the same results with an x-valved mag?

[ultralight]

that's about what i'm getting with my x valve. +/- 2-3 fps

another option that hasn't been brought up is the mq valve from pbx.
it's not out yet but it should be in the near future.

search AO's Paintball Talk for "AGG MAG"

while technically not a "mag" it will be a drop in upgrade for the automag platform.

if money is no option then definitely check out the devilmag.

if you don't want another electro then you should do some asking and see if you can't find somebody to do a pneumatic trigger job on your mag, i believe punisher has done one or two. i've heard that the best frames to use for "pneu-mags" are the vert frames because they have so much space in them.

definitely look into the ULT if you are going to use a hyperframe. it puts much less stress on the solenoid and burns less power. actually, you should probably look into the ULT anyway. i love mine.

one thing to keep in mind when switching from an IMP to a Mag: once you get the mag tuned it will (unlike a cocker) stay tuned, and you won't have to mess with it. but, tuning it can be frustrating. just remember that when you are tuning a mech marker to the edge of performance you will really have to tweak it to get it perfect. if you aren't up for this then there are good folks on this forum who can help you.

the number one thing to remember when getting your first mag is this: AO IS THE OWNERS MANUAL.

keep us updated on your mag, i built mine from the ground up and couldn't be happier.