Technalogical advancements In markers?

[CKY_Alliance]

I was sitting here thinking and wondering what will future advancements be for paintball guns? i mean there already are what i would consdier "super markers" soem can shoot over 30 bps wont chop have,are light,have good air efficiancy and the list goes on.

What does AO forsee for technilogical advancements in paintball markers?

What could make them better?Have they reached the peak of marker performance?
I mean what else could make them better.I can think of some guns that if i had them i would think what more do i need?I cant think of many except for not having to use compressed air (which i dont mind using)but majority of guns get very good efeciency anyways.

Where do you guys see marker designs and performance going?

[Automaggin2]

Kinda weird, I was just thinkin the same thing as I was logging on before I saw your post.

I don't think there is much we can do. I mean, maybe seeing self adjusting regulators on paintball guns with built in chronos? Probably will never happen, but it would be cool. Maybe we will see another type of digital airsystem thats a lot smatter and more advanced then the angel air.

[Target Practice]

How about markers that can lower the ego of their operators? That's what we really need.

[teufelhunden]

mind bullets.

[hitech]

I wanted one of these (with a rakeable trigger)...


Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconcieved notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun then this is what we could do NOW.

Run guns at much HIGHER pressures so you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact. This would lead to overall smaller guns with better efficiency.

Better efficiency means smaller tanks making the guns lighter and smaller overall.

Built in crono's that maintain your velocity at exactly what you set it to even when your tank starts running below your working pressure. This would mean that even though you we shooting a "high pressure" marker you would use it to the bottom of the tank. In order to do this you would have to have a fixed barrel but since everyone has to waist money on replacable barrels this thinking would have to change.

Trigger systems that would accomodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the fire power into the 30 BPS range.

Pre-load bolt systems that chamber the next round while you are firing the first elliminating ball feed lag.

Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....

Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators. Lets see, we can take off the tank reg, then the vert reg and oh yea the LPR too. You would have to be ready to put all those manufacturers out of business.

Very high speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy. The first ball would disrupt the air column and leave behind a turbulent wake. The turbulence would disrupt the laminar flow that leads to vortex shedding on the 2nd ball. Disrupt the vortex and improve the accuracy.

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.

And last but not lease an electronically timed, high pressure marker without regulators could plug into a laptop, test itself and tell you exactly what's wrong with it.

This is just one possible reality, most likely not to be part of any of your futures. Have fun with your pods.

AGD

[punkncat]

I honestly wonder why this "wonder marker" never was made.

AGD went out on a limb years ago for compressed air tanks wasn't it? If its possible to so revolutionize marker technology with this....in other words if it was as fast and as accurate as thought to be. A marked improvement over what is currently available, why not build it and see where it goes?

Honestly what has AGD got to lose at this point?

[teufelhunden]

Fantastic quote hitech! :cheers:

Hard to believe that some folks think that AGD was at a technical standstill!


Yeah, I have an idea to make a super dooper 100 bps marker with laser targeting.







Just saying it doesn't mean it's getting done. It seems like AGD has been more interested in complaining about the current state of affairs in paintball instead of doing what they were known for in the early 90s.

[minimag03]

A marker that I can play Tetris on.

[gc82000]

AGD's post just made me feel dumb, but it is a good kind of dumb. :rofl:

I want to see his backpack loader.

[mag-hatter]

i think china needs to drop an emp (electromagnetic pulse) bomb deal on us so that all these damn agg tourney guns stop working and we can revert back to maveric pumps and rt's

[magman007]

see, all that that would accomplish would be some new boards being purchased, and some new batteries.

quite an ignorant statement.

the spool valve is about as far as its going to go, you really cant take nelson style valves much further either

only thing we will see for a while is going to be smaller designs, "new technology" that is just re tweeking what we have to make it slightly better.

nothing big will happen till the evolt is highly worked on and in 20 years a feasable idea

[Automaggin2]

Bluetooth in a paintball gun. You can sink it up with your laptop and download speed charts and such.



watch this idea be takin and someone patent it and make millions.

[Maggot6]

I agree with Hitechs quote from Tom... Pretty well all of it :)

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Along the Blue-tooth lines..

you could add a reciever to your marker so you could scan for other markers with blue-tooth connections. Once you find their device you could send them a "virus" which stops their marker from firing. Now they need to reset their electronics before they can continue playing.

[Gunga]

How about markers that can lower the ego of their operators? That's what we really need.

You can do this yourself. Simply shoot a DM4/Timmy/supergun wielder with your pump gun during some games of hyper/speedball. Preferably more than one of em per game like I did last week. :D

Besides, it's more fun to lower their egos yourself rather than depending on a hypothetical gun to do it for them. :)

[duby]

heat seeking paintballs.

[sbpyro]

stupidity seeking paintballs

[SlartyBartFast]

Fantastic quote hitech! :cheers:

Hard to believe that some folks think that AGD was at a technical standstill!

I challenged AGD on that post and never got a reply.

If what was said is true. Do it.

Then find someone who is moderatly skilled at marketing.

The regulator eliminatoin idea is cool, but any electronically controlled regs just means more ways to easily cheat. Plus, there's no such thing at current painball marker pressures, let alone higher. If you could design it, you'd make a fortune and not just in the paintball market.

What I'd like to see is.....

Well, if I gave away my ideas, I'd lose out on implementing them, wouldn't I....

[FallNAngel]

A marker that I can play Tetris on.

Buy an Angel.... they'll have Tetris eventually; I mean, they have all the other useless bells and whistles...

[Automaggin2]

Imagine refs running around with PDAs syncing up tpo markers via bluetooth and checking to make sure no one is cheating

[rx2]

I challenged AGD on that post and never got a reply.

If what was said is true. Do it.


I agree that there is often a lot of talk, but there is quite a margin between real possibilities, and the actual implementation thereof. I am sure that if Tom (when he was in charge) were in a position to lose a lot of money without even thinking twice, he could have put out a marker like the one he described. The problem is that even with design concepts out of the way, there would still be tons of cash that would need to be invested in the actual fabrication of such proprietary designs. Futhermore, a large portion of paintballers would still overlook it as another failed attempt by AGD to revive what they see as a dead company. It is too big of a risk. The market is too fickle. That was actually the point of his message, I think. Lots of things could be done, but they just aren't feasible considering market trends. Also, I think that one must consider the fact that those things listed still wouldn't be huge advantages, especially considering that such a marker would undoubtedly have a very high price. It would take a company with money to burn to attempt something. Not a company that many think is already out of business anyway.

I should say, though, that I have always thought that his backpack concept was flawed. I used a remote for a while do to tendon injuries, and when I went back to having a tank on the marker, I realized just how much I hated having a hose going to my back. I suspect that many would benefit less from having a huge magazine on the back than they would form not having any tether such as a hose. They get caught, they can crimp, they can tear, and they can restrict movement. Furthermore, his comparison to real firearms is flawed, as I don't know of any military that issues infantry rifles that are fed via belt from a backpack.

Anyhow, I think that things are going to be slow for a while, with mere minor updates here and there.

[Dayspring]

The mQvalve is poised to revolutionize how hammer style guns work. The cocker valve lets the gun cycle at 30+bps (WITH PAINT) and significantly reduces reciprocating mass. It's also incredibly efficient and REALLY controllable- dwell in the .25ms range.

[Lurker27]

Let's go ahead and analyze point by point.

Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconcieved notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun then this is what we could do NOW.

OK, Tom, let's do that.

Run guns at much HIGHER pressures so you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact. This would lead to overall smaller guns with better efficiency.

Smaller? We've got to have at least a .75 OD tube. And we need the breech sealing mechanism to traverse at least that. Plus a valve. Plus a reg. Where, Praytell, are we going to get so much smaller? Would it even matter? Maybe you just shouldn't make guns out of stainless steel if you want them to be light

Better efficiency means smaller tanks making the guns lighter and smaller overall.

Efficiency of current guns is already approaching 70% efficiency, shooting deep into the tank. Raising pressures is somewhat counterproductive to this end.

Built in crono's that maintain your velocity at exactly what you set it to even when your tank starts running below your working pressure. This would mean that even though you we shooting a "high pressure" marker you would use it to the bottom of the tank. In order to do this you would have to have a fixed barrel but since everyone has to waist money on replacable barrels this thinking would have to change.

It's been tried, and the fact of the matter is that internal chronographs take everything as ideal...You'd have to have a perfect reg for this to make a difference, and if you have a perfect reg...Oops! we just solved the problem we were combatting in the first place.

Trigger systems that would accomodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the fire power into the 30 BPS range.

Again, been tried, by some models of Mamba Angels. The coordination just isn't there. MAYBE with a differential triggering system like the one I've propounded in the past.

Pre-load bolt systems that chamber the next round while you are firing the first elliminating ball feed lag.

Feeding a paintball faster than ~36 bps is impossible without a padded breech. As for how you'd preload a ball, I don't know. But, certainly, feeding paint isn't a problem at reasonable speeds. See: Viking 31 bps with paint.

Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....

We have a very early incarnation of this...But for it to make a significant market impact, it would have to be better done. Better than the Q-loader, as well. Good enough that people convert from their no-rises to side-feeds? Gonna happen? Maybe. Anytime soon? Doubtful...I wouldn't be surprised to see more an more integrated loaders in the future.

Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators. Lets see, we can take off the tank reg, then the vert reg and oh yea the LPR too. You would have to be ready to put all those manufacturers out of business.

Why? Current regulator technology keeps up quite nicely. You'd need a way of determining downstream pressure, and a solenoid valve operating at upwards of 800 psi. Could a sophisticated balanced poppet do it? maybe. Would it be worth it? Doubt ful.

Very high speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy. The first ball would disrupt the air column and leave behind a turbulent wake. The turbulence would disrupt the laminar flow that leads to vortex shedding on the 2nd ball. Disrupt the vortex and improve the accuracy.

...And slip stream balls right into eachother, causing breaks in mid air. Well, at least its not in your barrel...

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.

This is chock full of ridiculous statements. Saying that no modern firearm uses clips is simply ludicrous, for the same reason we don't use backpacks. Mobility. Sure, never reloading is nice, but with a good clip based system, possibly integrated into the marker, we could be reloading 100+ rounds in well under a second.

And last but not lease an electronically timed, high pressure marker without regulators could plug into a laptop, test itself and tell you exactly what's wrong with it.

How many times could you have paid to have it professionally teched before the sensors pay for themselves?

This is just one possible reality, most likely not to be part of any of your futures. Have fun with your pods.


It's the blind AGD zealotism that really angers me. Good things are being done to innovate in an industry that's mostly stagnant, and content with the current level of technology.

But the innovation isn't coming from AGD anymore. Those of you holding your breath won't be here in the fall, I'm afraid.

[doc_Zox]

SpellCheck


:D

[SlartyBartFast]

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.

This is chock full of ridiculous statements. Saying that no modern firearm uses clips is simply ludicrous, for the same reason we don't use backpacks. Mobility. Sure, never reloading is nice, but with a good clip based system, possibly integrated into the marker, we could be reloading 100+ rounds in well under a second.


Tom was on a rant, so I'd cut him SOME leeway. :p

But yea, the clip statement was gratuitously rediculous.

http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/xm8.html
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-xm8_100.php

[hitech]

Smaller?... We've got to have... Plus a valve. Plus a reg.


you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact. This would lead to overall smaller guns...Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators.

internal chronographs take everything as ideal...You'd have to have a perfect reg for this to make a difference...


Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators.

Trigger systems that would accommodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the firepower into the 30 BPS range.

Again, been tried, by some models of Mamba Angels. The coordination just isn't there. MAYBE with a differential triggering system like the one I've propounded in the past.


Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconceived notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun...
Walking is NOT the fastest way to shoot a paintgun.



Feeding a paintball faster than ~36 bps is impossible without a padded breech.

You are wrong. Just because you can't think of a way to do it doesn't mean it can't be done.


Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....

We have a very early incarnation of this...But for it to make a significant market impact, it would have to be better done.


Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconceived notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun...
The current systems, while not perfect, are better than a blimp on top of a marker. They just don't look cool...



Current regulator technology keeps up quite nicely. You'd need a way of determining downstream pressure, and a solenoid valve operating at upwards of 800 psi. Could a sophisticated balanced poppet do it? maybe. Would it be worth it? Doubtful.

Again, you are just wrong. Just because you can't think of how to do something, doesn't mean it can't be done. I could design an on/off valve that would be electronically controlled, run off a 9 volt battery and handle tank pressures. Don't know how fast it would be. But, I'm not an engineer...



Very high-speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy...

...And slip stream balls right into each other, causing breaks in mid air. Well, at least it's not in your barrel...

Have you done some sort of research to know what you are talking about? The person you are claiming is wrong certainly has. Can you point to ANY research that supports this claim?


Saying that no modern firearm uses clips is simply ludicrous...

You need to reread the statement. That's not what he said. Here it is again:

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip.
So, what gun with "state of the art firepower" shoots from a clip?



...with a good clip based system, possibly integrated into the marker, we could be reloading 100+ rounds in well under a second.

You can dump the current clip from the marker, reach into a clip carrier, remove a clip, and load it in WELL UNDER a second? Shoot us a video...

How many times could you have paid to have it professionally teched before the sensors pay for themselves?

Making assumptions, aren't we?


It's the blind AGD zealotism that really angers me.

No blind loyalty. I simply trust that Tom is not lying.

[SlartyBartFast]

...
So, what gun with "state of the art firepower" shoots from a clip?
...
No blind loyalty. I simply trust that Tom is not lying.

Isn't the XM-8 "state-of-the-art"? That's 100 rounds in a clip/drum/magazine. Name an infantry weapon that's fed from a belt as Tom's rant says "state-of-the-art" guns should.


We can truct Tom not to lie. But everyone is capable of hyperbole. :p

[hitech]

Isn't the XM-8 "state-of-the-art"? That's 100 rounds in a clip/drum/magazine. Name an infantry weapon that's fed from a belt as Tom's rant says "state-of-the-art" guns should.

Not just state of the art, but state of the art firepower. The "firepower" of that gun doesn't look to be much more than the M16...

[SlartyBartFast]

Not just state of the art, but state of the art firepower. The "firepower" of that gun doesn't look to be much more than the M16...

So, give us an example of firepower. Or for the very least define what you mean.

And keep it infantry. ;)

[hitech]

So, give us an example of firepower. Or for the very least define what you mean.

And keep it infantry. ;)

I don't know that there are any weopons with state of the art firepower for the infantry. They are just cannon fodder, after all... ;)

For this discussion, rate of fire would work for a definition of firepower. :D

[ApexAZ]

I think paintball needs longer range and improved accuracy without compromising safety.

[Lurker27]

The only real guns using belt feeds are machine guns such as the M249. While this is inarguably state of the art firepower, I wouldn't want to break one to the 50.

You say walking isn't the fastest way to shoot a paintgun. I concur. Raking is faster. The fact is, 3-4 fingers walking tends to lose more shots than it gains. Drum on a desk. Make sure only 1 finger is down while tapping with 2 fingers. Easy. Just alternate. Try it with 3 fingers...th enatural inclination is to move with a wave type pattern. You can make a nice quick sound, but as far as individual activations, I think it's somewhat disappointing.

Regarding feeding paint faster than 36ish bps....You'd have to get the bolt synchronized to the falling of the paintstack in order to decrease the final (impact) velocity of the paint with respect to the breech. Doable on a consistent basis? I doubt it. Even if there was a way to accomplish this, the benefit, given the actual rate of fire reached by anyone, is vanishingly small.

As far as the current systems being better, I'm not so sure. The best benefit, IMO, is not changing hands to shoot, ever. However, with good shooting technique, profile isn't a particularly convincing issue. Dynasty Dysected gives excellent examples of how to play tight with a "blimp" on top. In addition, warp setups are, almost invariably, heavy. This is without mentioning the fact that most guns are set up for vertical hoppers. Perhaps a better warpfeed, or improved Q-loader would do well, but I am of the opinion that clip based systems are the future for our sport...And plenty of shooters can reload that fast. Perhaps, I, too, am prone to hyperbole, but snapping a clip into placed is faster than pouring a pod into a hole, that much is certain. A sport that requires alot of body manipulation, sliding, and diving, is no place for a necessarily fragile and flexible hose with brittle ammunition coming through it.

As for our theoretical regulator replacement, I'm sure I could design something to do it as well. In fact, I even said it was doable with a balanced poppet design. But the problem isn't in making it, necessarily, it's in making it better than what we have now. If it's going to be a proper regulator, it needs to have a way of referencing the current pressure in the system. This could be as simple as a moving piston that trips a microswitch. However, the valve mechanism takes up space, does not necessarily stop exactly at the pressure you want it to (valve closing time). You end up with a system that, in all likelihood, is of comparable size and performance to our current regulators, with the added bonus of using power. I understand that Tom would like us all to be putting 4500 psi directly into our guns, but I'm not so sure my overmilled aluminum tube really wants to be relying on an electronic system to keep pressure out of the gun. Regs, currently, creep, sure, but at least there's 2 of them for some level of redundancy. What happens if som paint caused the contacts of your pressure sensor to malfunction and you're feeding your gun tank pressure? I don't even want to think about it. From a math and engineering standpoint, these concepts are highly attractive from afar, but given our current level of mechanical sophistication, I think it's not worth it. What's the appeal? Recharge? Consistency?

[SlartyBartFast]

For this discussion, rate of fire would work for a definition of firepower. :D

:rofl:

15bps, that SLOW limit recently placed on certain tournies, works out to be 900rpm.
20bps = 1200rpm
The machine guns here shoot 900-1000rpm max. http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm
Paintball guns have equivalent "firepower" to the fastest shooting firearms.

And how many rounds are on your typical belt?

Seems to me that with 150 rounds in a hopper you've got more simulated "firepower" than any real firearm available.

[SlartyBartFast]

I think paintball needs longer range and improved accuracy without compromising safety.

Games can be boring enough with the range we have now. How big a field do you want to have to need?

And accuracy..... Well NOTHING more can be done while keeping the ball impacts safe and/or changing EVERYTHING about ALL the equipment used.

[mandatory]

I think the 4 finger method couold be implemented. Im a semi-professional turntablist (DJ who specialises in the art of scratching) and i use a similartechnique in djing. its called a crab and implys the 4 fingers in a raking motion to produce 4 seperate sounds, done repeatedly you can achieve "rolls" of as many notes as you can keepup the pattern. I feel that all you need is to have a trigger that you can easly fit your thumb behind so as to pusn the trigger back out after each press with the other 4 fingers. I may exparament withthis and let you guys know what i come up with. I have a few ideas how to do it. im gonna try to incorperate the fader switch from my dj equipment cause it uses breakbeam technology to tripp it as well as curve adjustment (switch length). its a wacky idea but im gonna do a little recrarch on the what and hows of paintball microswitches and such and see how i can get them compatable with other forms if electro-switches. thanks for rebooting my enthusiasim for this idea.

[ApexAZ]

M60 and M249.

[Gunga]

So, give us an example of firepower. Or for the very least define what you mean.

And keep it infantry. ;)

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/flamethrower-vietnam.jpg

There ya go! He's even using a backpack. :p

But back onto projectile based firepower, all the really high rate of fire guns use belts, not magazines - from man operated machine guns such as the M-60 (550 rounds/min) or MG-42 (1200-1300 rounds/min) up to the M61 Vulcan(6000 rounds/min - used in the US fighter aircraft & naval Phalanx anti-missile system) & GAU-8 Avenger (3900 rounds/min) used by the A-10.

These days, it seems most everyone's obsessed with rate of fire. Whether or not they can even hope to stand a chance of firing that fast. :tard:

[teufelhunden]

:rofl:

15bps, that SLOW limit recently placed on certain tournies, works out to be 900rpm.
20bps = 1200rpm
The machine guns here shoot 900-1000rpm max. http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm
Paintball guns have equivalent "firepower" to the fastest shooting firearms.

And how many rounds are on your typical belt?

Seems to me that with 150 rounds in a hopper you've got more simulated "firepower" than any real firearm available.


And that little ditty conveniently forgets that with real firearms, the barrel isn't going to stay solid at that ROF for too long ;)

[ApexAZ]

Games can be boring enough with the range we have now. How big a field do you want to have to need?

And accuracy..... Well NOTHING more can be done while keeping the ball impacts safe and/or changing EVERYTHING about ALL the equipment used.

It's not so much about being able to shoot farther rather then shooting with less arc.

As far as improved accuracy, I don't know how well the double shot thing that Tom mentioned would work, but there has to be a better way. You are right though, it might not be cost effective or it would have to completely redesign the current technology.

Paintballs need more mass and a better aerodynamic design to achieve any more accuracy. I don't believe it's impossible to design something, just not likely in the near future.

[hitech]

Regarding feeding paint faster than 36ish bps....You'd have to get the bolt synchronized...

You're assuming that you need to have a bolt.


As far as the current systems being better, I'm not so sure. The best benefit, IMO, is not changing hands to shoot, ever. However, with good shooting technique, profile isn't a particularly convincing issue.

Well, since the rules keep changing to make the current method of play have an advantage, I guess your right. What rule change am I talking about? It use to be against the rules to modify any bunker in any way. Pushing your marker into an inflatable bunker would be altering the bunker.


warp setups are, almost invariably, heavy...Perhaps a better warpfeed, or improved Q-loader would do well, but I am of the opinion that clip based systems are the future for our sport...

The existing warp and qloader are first design products. They both could be improved. BTW, a qloader is just a clip, with all the drawbacks of a clip (limited rounds, can't reload until empty without "wasting" rounds, etc.).


As for our theoretical regulator replacement...

Tom wasn't talking about replacing the regulator(s), he was talking about eliminating them. Making them not necessary, or even advantageous. In a simple nutshell, begin delivering air to the area behind the paintball. When the paintball has accelerated enough, stop the air flow.


I understand that Tom would like us all to be putting 4500 psi directly into our guns...

Only a newly designed one that was built for it. ;)


What's the appeal? Recharge? Consistency?

The ability to get WAY more shots per tank, shoot any paint at exactly the same velocity and shoot it faster than is currently possible.

[Lohman446]

To those who say this idea won't work... you may be right

To those who say, basically, that we cannot improve technologically any more let me present this idea to you. Thats basically what AGD said a few years ago... look where they are now.

[Lurker27]

I really don't think that air consistency is the current limiting factor...It's more paint and friction. Current regs are quite good.

As far as a smart valve, rather than regulation..you would need either a series of eyes in the breech, or a pressure transducer...I just don't see it as advantageous...I'm suspicious of the claims of increased efficiency...We're pretty good right now. The 2000+ (68/45) shot crowd is bigger now, but is by no means new.

[hitech]

As far as a smart valve, rather than regulation..you would need either a series of eyes in the breech, or a pressure transducer...

"Radar Chronos" work without either of those.

[ApexAZ]

Anyone ever wonder how a bullet shaped piece of foam that is soaked in paint and encased in a brittle shell would do? Seems like you could increase the mass and velocity and the foam wouldn't hurt much! Possibly even rifle it... But then we're back to redesigning the wheel aren't we?

[Beemer]

Only a newly designed one that was built for it.

Maybe, but there is one out now that is rated at 3000psi and could be rated higher since it was tested at over 5000psi.



15bps, that SLOW limit recently placed on certain tournies, works out to be 900rpm.
20bps = 1200rpm
The machine guns here shoot 900-1000rpm max.

Thats slow. Try the Dillon at 3000rpm..see vid here

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/psychogun.wmv

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/MuzzleFlash.jpg


And that little ditty conveniently forgets that with real firearms, the barrel isn't going to stay solid at that ROF for too long

Not if its multi-Barrel....see above vid.


Paintball is in a Paradigm shift but everybody is still stuck in the box.

Why do I still have to load my hopper from silly little pods? Oh ya because thats the ONLY way right now. Sell a back pack and I would run it. Wait, Im still stuck in the box

[Miscue]

I think the innovations will be finding ways to manufacture the same stuff cheaper.

[hitech]

Maybe, but there is one out now that is rated at 3000psi and could be rated higher since it was tested at over 5000psi.

Sure, but I think Tom's quote only applied to the new marker he was talking about. ;) :D


Sell a backpack and I would run it. Wait, I'm still stuck in the box

When I first got a warp I was determined to use it on a backpack. Then the realities of having children took hold...


:cheers:

[teufelhunden]

Not if its multi-Barrel....see above vid.

Er, a multi barrel gun for paintball is so far from practical it's laughable. There's a reason we don't send troops out carrying multi barrel weapons [don't mention Alien..].

[Beemer]

Ya I know. That was in response to you saying the barrel wouldnt stay solid at HROF.

You can send me out with one of those

[Twiek]

Er, a multi barrel gun for paintball is so far from practical it's laughable. There's a reason we don't send troops out carrying multi barrel weapons [don't mention Alien..].

Yea, but it's not necessary for paintball (i.e. you're not using explosives that heat up the barrel). Until you get into the 100+ bps range, a single barrel is fine.

As for this phantom 32 bps limit, who ever said you need a bolt? Opening a bolt, waiting for a ball drop, chambering the ball, and then firing seems like such a long and complicated process if you're going for speed. Just have multiple chambers on a rotation.... similar to a gatling gun in process, but with only the necesity of one barrel, simpler, smaller, and lighter.

I can understand Tom's complaint. Look where out of the box thinking got most designs: the ATS markers, the Epic, the Phoenix, the Nova.

[Lurker27]

Heaven forbid I forget about the doppler effect.

[SlartyBartFast]

Paintball is in a Paradigm shift but everybody is still stuck in the box.

Why do I still have to load my hopper from silly little pods? Oh ya because thats the ONLY way right now. Sell a back pack and I would run it. Wait, Im still stuck in the box

What paradigm shift? That little minigun is cute but not terribly practical. Why shot thousands of underpowered rounds at a target that has to be stationary when you can fire just one of these?
http://members.cox.net/311n/vault/LOSAT2.mpeg

"Firepower" and the appropriate amount depends on the scenario and the mission.

The only "paradigm shift" is if you want to change the game. What kind of game will it be if you need to have 4000 rounds and a SCUBA tank on your back to play?

Is that a shift we want to make?

Additionally, what's so silly about pods?

While you can over engineer for the sake of over engineering, what will an alternate feed system provide that's worth the cost? Change for the sake of change means an industry that will never mature or grow... Changing too much may well eradicate the industry by splintering it into small enough factions that they are no longer viable markets.

[mag-hatter]

see, all that that would accomplish would be some new boards being purchased, and some new batteries.

quite an ignorant statement.

hohohohokay e-cool. looks like someone overlooked A JOKE HAHAHAR

nevermind the fact that the emp would probably kill the shops that MAKE batteries/boards and after a huge strike against the u.s. who gives a crap about creating electronic boards for paintball markers? but nevermind, im ignorant.

[kylyo123456]

A case of quality paint for $15....that would be awesome

[madstan]

I tend to agree with the sentiments that there is a physical limitation on how fast you can sling paintballs out of a marker. I'd say it's more of a factor of the .68 cal. paintball shell's (necessary) fragility and other physical limitations that will limit the ROF. What that ROF is, I have now idea...but let's face it, at some point the human limitations will stop ROF from increasing, because of accidental/incidental overshooting.

The real increase in a team's firepower would come through incoperating different, complementary paint delivery systems into the current arsenal. I'd say a high-angle mortar/grenade paint delivery system or a paint sprayer(look at Gunga's flamethrower pic and think about buying paint in 5 gal pails) would be a much more substantial increase in firepower than a few BPS on your marker. Don't get me wrong, rifles and machineguns are still the primary tools of the infantry soldier, but mortars, grenades, rockets and flamethrowers have been and are still used in necessary specialty roles. I'm not trying to compare the military to paintball, but there are fundamental similarities.

I'm getting the wagner paintsprayer out of the garage tonight and tweek it for bunker-clearing :eek: