2005 Tampa Pro tour

[mags247]

I know that i will will most definately be banned me for this. Hence the new screen name.

I just wanted everyone to know that I am pi$$ed that there was NO I mean ZERO mag support at the tampa show.

Not a single booth. They handed out free magazines that rated all of the new markers and of course AGD had the Pro Classic advertised.

AGD is finished at the tourney scene. I now know this, My fellow mag owners wittnessed it with my our own eyes. Mags have stopped evolving. This does not mean that Mags suck but have no place in the tourney world. I just cant see a mag regardless of Pneumag or Devil mag ever hanging with an EGO. In a tourney the Mag would flat out run out of air (probably even faster with a pneumag) !!!

I was dissapointed to see that Devilmag and Proteam (brass Eagle)did not even show up. Yeah!!! that just lets me know that there are tons of New Mag upgrades on the forefront. I was really hoping that DevilsDen would have been there so I could at least inspect the DMAG frame for the following reasons:

1) I want to know how it feels before I order one.

2) See if there a real company or if they are just some guys taking money. I dont feel comfy sending the 450 for a frame and having them tell me It's going to be a couple of months.

I casual conversation we were speaking to people and vendors about mags. The most common response was they still make those!!!! That just made me want to take my Mag and throw in in the garbage. I love my mag, Great recball gun, tourney gun Never!!! (bring on the it's the "It's the skill of the player not the marker" comebacks) My buddy even bought a ION because we are sick of getting out shot buy some Noobs with High end electros. Granted they may not know how to use the gun to there fullest potential, but if you can ramp and have tons of paint you can shoot ropes and at least keep people pinned in spots you want them to stay in.

Mags have stopped evolving. I own Mags and this just makes me mad. I know that I will never brake my mag. However There will be a day that I will have to put it down and pick up a shocker to be competitive.

Recap:
At the Expo NO MAG SUPPORT

The Mag Name has lost some of it's Pedigree, in stead of people saying "I've heard about those", we get "They still make those?" (not justn kid but players my age (28) and vendors as well).

After watching the massive amount of intimidator use I dont know how the mag will ever compete on the tourney level.

Flame on!!!

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Dude, give it up........

Everyone knows stuff like this has and is going on for a while.

[Flow_Tech]

Dude, give it up........

Everyone knows stuff like this has and is going on for a while.
QFMFT.quit whining,everyone found out AGD quit with the tournament scene in about 2002 or 2003.
and before someone Do not cuss here on AO......EVER. Army me out..Aside from AGD Pride,they quit.

[peewee]

:tard:

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

sweet, i was QFMFT! He got the same response in his pbnation thread as well.

[Glickman]

After watching the massive amount of intimidator use I dont know how the mag will ever compete on the tourney level.

Flame on!!!

it wont... thats why theres the ion

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p

[mags247]

No doubt I got the same response on PBnation and I will post over there as well.

You say I'm whining, that's cool. Free country.
I say mags will NEVER be a competitive force on the tourney scene. (If you can prove me wrong I'd love to pics/vids of your team that plays with only mags dominating).

I agree that advertising or lack there of has changed the focus of todays players. But mags can look great. I have an awesome rogue mag. It draws serious compliments, but it does not have the performance to keep up with todays guns.

The vendors don't have to show up to all of the events that come up. But vendors like devilsden who claim that their product can do for mags what planet eclipse did for the autococker needs to step up and put there money where their mouths are.

Guns like the EGO are not better because they are the new thing, they are better because they cycle faster, get better air efficiency and oh yeah they are just flat out better.

I agree that an Ion does NOT feel like my mag. MY mag feels like a surgical instrument, not a toy. I am just pissed "it is the end of sight" on the road the mags are traveling on. My mag looks secks E and I dont want to make it a woods ball only gun. But for me to compete I need to go the way of the shocker.
I feel secure ordering a gun that will come in 3days that will rip. I dont feel comfortable ordering that "new magic frame" (or in PTP's case the frame that may or may not make it to life) only to have them say your money has been received you should have your new frame in the next two months or so. WTF is that?

Sorry to get off topic, I'm not whining, I love my mag (all mags for that) they just dont have the performance (bps, efficiency, anti chop and anything else that i forgot) to hang with todays electros or even yesterdays Timmys. I have conceded to the fact that a $750 shocker WILL destroy a 1400+ E/XMag. If you havent conceded to that then you should. People are always selling out companies MQ who make a sweet valve set up for the mag by saying it's not a mag, just a mag body. Without innovation there would never have been intimidator. Mags on the tourney scene will never come to life.

I know there are those of you out there that have been pinned down by people with Angels and what not (even though you may not want to admit it) It sucks. I hate the feeling of being outgunned at esp when I'm just trying to play rec ball. You know its bad when you have to put your mag down and pull out the E-spyder to just feel like you can hang.

Done with my rant, game on!!!

[WenULiVeUdiE]

The vendors don't have to show up to all of the events that come up. But vendors like devilsden who claim that their product can do for mags what planet eclipse did for the autococker needs to step up and put there money where their mouths are.

The problem is they dont have the money to do what Planet Eclipse did. They are a small production shop, while Planet Eclipse is a much larger company with more money.

I think it would be cool to see AGD back in the tourny scene. Not in the sense that they would dominate it, but enough to make them well known. Will this ever happen? Probably not. My guess is they will turn into something like PPS, just without the custom work.

[mandatory]

If you dont like open ended transactions, then dont get a devilmag...

[AGDlover]

if you want to complaine and moan about it then why are you getting a DM obiously nobody is forceing you to get one and at the same time your saying AGD is going down

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

mags247's arguement, or rather annoying rant has been heard multiple times from other people. As everyone has told you we know mags for the most part wont prob ever compete in the tourny scene at large. This does not mean they cant compete. Also, as stated by me and other people companies like devilsden cant market there products like larger companies. Pleas do us all a fovr and drop it cus weve heard it all before.

[richie]

But I will say that you do not have to a high end marker to stay competitive.I was at a speedball field in North Florida and saw a "pro player",fully dressed to the hilt in his tourney pants and shirt,super paintball shoes,top of the line mask and so on shooting a top of the line angel.He got bunkered and taken out by a guy with a crossman slingshot and a handfull of paintballs he picked up off the ground and shoved in the pocket of his used camo jacket.It was so funny watching all the newbs want to be on his team because he looked good and then he walks off with a single shot to the back of the jersey.This is the reason I do not play tourney ball.Too much hype.

If you like your mag,love it for what it is or change your type of play.If you want to play tourney ball,get rid of the mag and buy something that you feel will keep up.Sell your mag to someone that will appreciate it for what it is.Heck I am still in love with my VM-86 :D

[AGDlover]

But I will say that you do not have to a high end marker to stay competitive.I was at a speedball field in North Florida and saw a "pro player",fully dressed to the hilt in his tourney pants and shirt,super paintball shoes,top of the line mask and so on shooting a top of the line angel.He got bunkered and taken out by a guy with a crossman slingshot and a handfull of paintballs he picked up off the ground and shoved in the pocket of his used camo jacket.It was so funny watching all the newbs want to be on his team because he looked good and then he walks off with a single shot to the back of the jersey.This is the reason I do not play tourney ball.Too much hype.


lol i think snyper has done that at one point

[Kevmaster]

you mean AGD isnt targeting the tournament players as hte primary users of their markers? Jumpin Jipotles Batman!

On a serious note, AGD hasnt been concerned with the tournament scene for over a year now. This is hardly news. If you're mad that AGD is focusing on the scenario market...well...fine. But thats reality. And coming here and ranting isn't going to change it

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

you mean AGD isnt targeting the tournament players as hte primary users of their markers? Jumpin Jipotles Batman!

On a serious note, AGD hasnt been concerned with the tournament scene for over a year now. This is hardly news. If you're mad that AGD is focusing on the scenario market...well...fine. But thats reality. And coming here and ranting isn't going to change it

WORD!

Multiple people have told him that, i hope he gets it now!

[Lohman446]

I know that i will will most definately be banned me for this. Hence the new screen name.

I just wanted everyone to know that I am pi$$ed that there was NO I mean ZERO mag support at the tampa show.

Not a single booth. They handed out free magazines that rated all of the new markers and of course AGD had the Pro Classic advertised.

AGD is finished at the tourney scene. I now know this, My fellow mag owners wittnessed it with my our own eyes.

AGD - Tom himself flat out stated that they were no longer targetting the tournament community, Why are you surprised they were not there?

As for banning: I doubt it, you have nto violated a rule. As to the feeling your new SN would save you from banning? IP banning for instance would take down all your SNs

[Fred]

Wow, this post could have been cut and paste from like... a year ago... and the year before that... and the year before that...

only difference is this new fad of "quoting for truth"...

Then again... I miss those days, when AO was FULL of zealots who were equally as mad about it... now we're just jaded to the point we don't care anymore...

[Lohman446]

AO is sending two teams to IAO, the Owners Group this year. This a tournament where the pressure of winning (and hopefully the incentive to cheat) is going to be lessened. See how mags perform. Maybe its not that your gun isn't fast enough, maybe the reason for not being competetive is an unwillingness to cheat. It woudl seem that we hear more and more the only way to compete with the big boys is to cheat, is it any surprise TK would nto want to be involved?

[r-unit]

what if we could get p.e. to make a eblade mag frame? that just might save mags, along with BETTER LOOKING bodies and stuff.

eblade
dw/agd collaboration body, not just a tube of metal


then mags might come back..

cuz ppl want guns that are fast and flashy, but i dont think thats what mags were meant to be. even though these ads are saying "fastest recharge in the universe"

sorry if all this is kinda random, im really tired.

[Army]

AGD never purposely catered to the tourney scene. AGD made a marker that was built for the long haul,and is tough as nails.

Lessee...Angels first arrived in what, 1998? Right off the git-go, WDP sponsored big name teams to put their product into the front of the VISUAL wars. Was the Angel better than 'Mags or 'Cockers then? Not really, it had some fairly new innovations for the day, but their main goal was marketing. Put it in the hands of Rocky Cagnoni, and every noob and muppet must have it....'cuz Rocky has one, so it's gotta be sick as hell. The original ACE sucked, it's ROF was slower than a 'Cocker, shootdown began at 11bps, forget trying to work on or fix it yourself, ...and the Jax Warriors were still cleaning up with their RT's.

Now, had AGD done the "normal" paintball marketing hype, and sponsored Dynasty today, this discussion would not be taking place as the noobs and muppets would be all ga-ga over the ULE RT-Pro.

That's what it is ALL about. Hype. You either do it, or lose it. As AGD never hyped anything without honest proof of performance, nor pushed their product on unknowing new players, their numbers never really took off. Players that really know quality and long lasting engineering, have always bought 'Mags ( I still have MY 10 year old MiniMag, and 13 year old classic) with no regrets to BPS or bling status.

That the RT valve is the industry's fastest, along with no measurable shootdown, means nothing to noobs and muppets that only see neon color, fancy milling, and whatever the Sugar Hill Gang is shooting today. Do you really think they care that the DM5 is nothing more than the good 'ol lousy efficiency Matrix in a swell new package? Can anyone really tell me what the real difference between the DM4 and the DMC is? I can tell you...its the marketing.

I agree, AGD will never be a force in the tourney scene, and will not be the "nth" thing in scenario either. But AGD markers will continue to be around paintball, as they are made to be used, and used, and used again. My Emag will easily hang with ANY marker out there...yes ANY marker, and any AGD marker will hang with any other mechanical. I have no need to buy another marker every time DYE, or WDP, or WGP, or Brass Eagle brings out the latest cosmetic change to an old design.

See, AGD just stayed with the old design all along!

[WARPED1]

Mags have been "done" for a long time in tournies. It is a great rec gun, asnd that's it, no matter how many cool upgrades it has(pneu mag, Devil mag) it's still just a mag.................

[BigEvil]

Mags have been "done" for a long time in tournies. It is a great rec gun, asnd that's it, no matter how many cool upgrades it has(pneu mag, Devil mag) it's still just a mag.................


"Just a mag" LOL.

Seriously everyone.. you all worry about what other people are shootin WAY too much.

Get out and play.

[mags247]

Glad to see that my rant has stirred up the pot. Even the guy at Devilsden posted a response to my rant on PBNation.

Just a refresher for those who havent been reading, Yes I am pissed that no one represented mags or their upgrades at the tourny. Most common response was It's a rec ball gun!! or "everyone knows that Mags are scenario guns". Damn I missed that Memo and apparently so did the folks at TIPPMAN. They had one of the biggest booths. WTF were they thinking.

Back on topic....The guy from devilsden took a stand, no respone from PTP worth noting.

He (GA Devil)stated that:
"considering it is $1500 for a 10'x10' space at the nppl event at the cheapest and having to get approval from wdp to set up We are not going to set up at such an event. There is no way for us to make that back up. For some reason people think its free for vendors to set up at events when in fact it costs us quite a bit. The small group of us that do mag stuff just cant make the money back required to set up at an event where we wont make money. Im sorry but its the brutal truth behind the business side.

then the added cost of travel, hotel and food for an event where the gun is considered "obsolete" whether it is or isnt just doesnt make it even possible".........

This in the business world is what is known of as the leap of faith. Anyone with a decent product and the vision that their product will be popular will do this ( i.e. every other company)
Those that don't either know their product either isn't that good so they may not want to get the start up capital from a let's see.......... oh yeah a bank!!! because they may not to recover to pay it back? or they dont trust the market they are pitching their product to. Where is their faith in the loyal mag owners?

If devilsden would have had a booth that would been there so I could have a tangible working (not a video) model of there gun I probably would have bought it, Like I said I love mag's. Hopefully someone who also truly loves mags and tinkers with have the balls to get out and show there stuff. I hope that a company with the right financial backing a company like lets say smart parts or shocktech will pull a PTP and put a patent on the rights to the Devil Frame and get that out of the dark and into the light. The Mag can still be the phoenix and rise from the ashes, will take R&D, andvertising and Ca$h.

But in all reality, I know in my heart that the mag has hit the wall as far as where it can go now. Maybe someone can make it happen but for now we are stuck with what we have, A great rec ball gun.

Gonna by an Ion, and get a Karta body if Deadlywind ever releases it.

Deadlywind if your reading this patent your body before someone else does and stops that one cold.

Oh yeah adrenaline_junkie hates me, that's so awesome. BTW your mom called and said you need to take a nap.

[WARPED1]

Oh yeah adrenaline_junkie hates me, that's so awesome. BTW your mom called and said you need to take a nap.ROFLMFAO!! That was very funny! Don't lose any sleep over it! :)
And everyone who is smart knows it costs money to get a booth. But it takes money to make money.

[FromTheBack]

Chris[Devil's Den] was at Ultimate madness (a pretty big tourny event in WV if you havent heard of it.)about a month or two ago with AGD and TAG, having some Devil mags there along with predator installs for other guns. So it isn't like there is no effort by them to get this out there.

[WARPED1]

TUM in WV is a great tourney put on by PGP Bollenbach and others, but if you don't get into PSP/NPPL as a vendor too, chances are, your product will just sit on a shelf, kind of like most(not all) mags do.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

I dont hate you by any means, i just find you very annoying. Weve all heard this before and from the looks of it all you want to do is stir people up which is pretty stupid. O yeah, i doubt anyones going to patent the making of ion bodies, thats like saying no one can make any custom bodies for cockers and other guns.

[FlawleZ]

You're very ignorant. There are no "performance" advantages to any other electro on the market compared to the E-mag. Just because the board says it's capable of 500 BPS, doesn't mean ANYTHING. It's only as fast as you can pull your fingers, which is usually 12-14 BPS.

Weight? It's called ULE.
Cosmetics? Heard of Deadly Wind?
Chopping? ACE, LV 10.
Efficiency? Since when did paintball become a game of who can last the longest on one fill? If it gets you from game to game, who really cares. What do you think All Day Air is for?
Speed? Let's see you pull your fingers at over 20 CPS. I've got $50 that says you won't come close.

Mags can't compete? Ehh.....false. Thanks for playing!!!

Am I the only one who isn't impressed with an Ion? It looks and feels SOOO cheap.

[Lohman446]

Chopping? ACE, LV 10.
.


Chopping: eyes vs LX - eyes in my opinion are more effective and require less tuning. Granted though that you may not agree with this. That being said though, when eyes function it does not cost you a cycle, LX does. This is A performance advantage, maybe minimal. Ramping when allowed is arguably a perforamnce advantage. Yes, there is at least one performance advantage, there may be others but there are arguable at best.

[Asian_Sensation]

I know that i will will most definately be banned me for this. Hence the new screen name.

I just wanted everyone to know that I am pi$$ed that there was NO I mean ZERO mag support at the tampa show.

Not a single booth. They handed out free magazines that rated all of the new markers and of course AGD had the Pro Classic advertised.

AGD is finished at the tourney scene. I now know this, My fellow mag owners wittnessed it with my our own eyes. Mags have stopped evolving. This does not mean that Mags suck but have no place in the tourney world. I just cant see a mag regardless of Pneumag or Devil mag ever hanging with an EGO. In a tourney the Mag would flat out run out of air (probably even faster with a pneumag) !!!

I was dissapointed to see that Devilmag and Proteam (brass Eagle)did not even show up. Yeah!!! that just lets me know that there are tons of New Mag upgrades on the forefront. I was really hoping that DevilsDen would have been there so I could at least inspect the DMAG frame for the following reasons:

1) I want to know how it feels before I order one.

2) See if there a real company or if they are just some guys taking money. I dont feel comfy sending the 450 for a frame and having them tell me It's going to be a couple of months.

I casual conversation we were speaking to people and vendors about mags. The most common response was they still make those!!!! That just made me want to take my Mag and throw in in the garbage. I love my mag, Great recball gun, tourney gun Never!!! (bring on the it's the "It's the skill of the player not the marker" comebacks) My buddy even bought a ION because we are sick of getting out shot buy some Noobs with High end electros. Granted they may not know how to use the gun to there fullest potential, but if you can ramp and have tons of paint you can shoot ropes and at least keep people pinned in spots you want them to stay in.

Mags have stopped evolving. I own Mags and this just makes me mad. I know that I will never brake my mag. However There will be a day that I will have to put it down and pick up a shocker to be competitive.

Recap:
At the Expo NO MAG SUPPORT

The Mag Name has lost some of it's Pedigree, in stead of people saying "I've heard about those", we get "They still make those?" (not justn kid but players my age (28) and vendors as well).

After watching the massive amount of intimidator use I dont know how the mag will ever compete on the tourney level.

Flame on!!!

first off agd is broke :( second i sported the :cuss: out of my ule/logic mag and everyone LOVED IT! i sported it at pbnation...the grandstands...even some div 2 teams liked it... (this was on sunday) but you are right about the vendors they had no idea that mags still existed. but nppl at tampa was ok it wasnt to sweet.

[WARPED1]

Am I the only one who isn't impressed with an Ion? It looks and feels SOOO cheap.Why? It's all aluminum except the body sleeve, like every other gun on the market? What makes it feel so cheap?! Feels the same as any pb gun I've held in my 16 years playing......................

[paullus99]

The ION is the "Model T" of paintball - the great equalizer.....its too bad the Mag has gotten such a bad reputation in the upper levels of our market, but my scenario team is now sporting at least five Tac-Ones, and I bet by the end of the year we double that total. Paintball is evolving, the business is changing....don't count AGD out just yet - who knows what's around the corner.

[mags247]

You're very ignorant. There are no "performance" advantages to any other electro on the market compared to the E-mag. Just because the board says it's capable of 500 BPS, doesn't mean ANYTHING. It's only as fast as you can pull your fingers, which is usually 12-14 BPS.

Incorrect, i know that you are a diehard Mag nuthugger but the simple fact is an ION (not even a shocker) will destroy all mech mags and most E/X mags. Spend the $275 it's a humbling experience to see that you 450 mech cant really hang.

Weight? It's called ULE.
Cosmetics? Heard of Deadly Wind?
Chopping? ACE, LV 10.
Efficiency? Since when did paintball become a game of who can last the longest on one fill? If it gets you from game to game, who really cares. What do you think All Day Air is for?
Speed? Let's see you pull your fingers at over 20 CPS. I've got $50 that says you won't come close.

Ok so you get a gun and have to mod it to be competitive? WTF is that Deadlywinds bodys are hot, no doubt, but thats a vanity thing. 20 cps? That's ramping boards are for. And the LvX isnt that great. Unless you like the sound of Chufff.

Mags can't compete? Ehh.....false. Thanks for playing!!!
You got the mags cant compete part right and I'll never stop playing (rec ball with my mags tourneys with MYSP guns)

Am I the only one who isn't impressed with an Ion? It looks and feels SOOO cheap.

Performance wise ION > Mag get over it.

[tony3]

And everyone who is smart knows it costs money to get a booth. But it takes money to make money.

Not for prostitutes.

[WARPED1]

Performance wise ION > Mag get over it.
I concur. Now watch the zombies get pissed................ :rolleyes:
At least us Ion owners can face that there are guns better. Mag users cannot.

[Lohman446]

I concur. Now watch the zombies get pissed................ :rolleyes:
At least us Ion owners can face that there are guns better. Mag users cannot.


I can :D

[mags247]

Borrowed from the sister thread over on the nation.....

Ok you want me to answer questions... fine.
the shocker is better because:
a) it is faster.....if you dont believe me shoot one, stop hating.
b) it has eyes that work.
c) its quality and
d) its flat out cheaper 775 brand new and you dont have to buy mods to make it hang with the super guns because it is one.

Why EGO's are better: See above plus it is lighter...respect it.

I did not mention cosmetics which if you can READ i never even mentioned. Most of you throw out karta body, I cant afford to spend 300 on something to make my gun look better.
If you are talking about cosmetic, you must have doubts on your own piece, my Mag looks sick.

If you dont think BPS doesnt matter you have never been to a tourney and played. If you think you can walk out onto the field and play with you Custom you're lying to yourself!!! Tourneys are not rec ball. I don't care of how good of a snap shooter you are, if you cant throw ropes how are you supposed to cover your team members when they are on the run?

Fun is what is all about.....It is more fun to bunker some one at 15 effortless BPS than maybe the 5 "working your a$$ off" bps you can get out of your mech mag. But hey we are trying to have fun ....right?

Adrenaline Junkie
"I was thinking the same thing, it was dumb of mags247 for saying people like you are "dumb" for not putting up a booth at a big tourny/show and not even taking into consideration thr costs involved. "

When did I say he was dumb? I said he didn't even show up at the event that all I was screamin about. But you missed that in the original thread...Now who's dumb? Oh yeah.....You. Stop being a nuthugger.

Now that all is said and done. I will close out this thread by saying that mags are great guns for rec ball. On the tourney level, the existing technology has hit the ceiling. If the last great innovation was the Xvalve and LvX then you know that the mag has been put out to pasture along time ago. Some of you might not want to accept it but outside this microcosm that you live in there is a thriving world of innovation and sport. But on this board all the die hard mag owners are like the kids that never left their rooms or got invited to parties......It's a whole other world out there.

FINE.......

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Borrowed from the sister thread over on the nation.....

Ok you want me to answer questions... fine.
the shocker is better because:
a) it is faster.....if you dont believe me shoot one, stop hating.
b) it has eyes that work.
c) its quality and
d) its flat out cheaper 775 brand new and you dont have to buy mods to make it hang with the super guns because it is one.


Adrenaline Junkie
"I was thinking the same thing, it was dumb of mags247 for saying people like you are "dumb" for not putting up a booth at a big tourny/show and not even taking into consideration thr costs involved. "

When did I say he was dumb? I said he didn't even show up at the event that all I was screamin about. But you missed that in the original thread...Now who's dumb? Oh yeah.....You. Stop being a nuthugger.



You cant shoot a shocker any faster than an emag unless your cheating. An e/xmags eyes work fine. AGD is quality. For $775 you can get an emag fully upgraded and it will run with the vest of em.

You may not have said hes dumb but by complaining about it you may as well have said it. Nutthugger? That really wasnt called for. If you want to make this personal i will. I dont have anything against you other than the fact that you made a post dozens of other people have and havnt really supported your claim that mags arent as good as other electros other than efficiency wise. Weve all heard it before and its not needed.

[mags247]

My gun will be new and will not have to be upgraded. (turns nose up and dusts shoulder off)

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

My gun will be new and will not have to be upgraded. (turns nose up and dusts shoulder off)

Ill leave it at that lol. Were never gonna agree and argueing wont get either of us anywhere. In the end, to each his own i suppose. Im sorry if i said anything that may have offended you.

[mags247]

Ill leave it at that lol. Were never gonna agree and argueing wont get either of us anywhere. In the end, to each his own i suppose. Im sorry if i said anything that may have offended you.

No offense taken.....
I love my mag, I play with it every chance I get. The whole point of my thread is vent about AGD and the non participation approach to paintball. I'm glad it rattled some cages but the folks at AGD are not going to come out with something new anytime soon and that disappoints me. If WGP can do it AGD should be able to as well.

[mark_1791]

Wouldn't it be a good idea for AGD to endorse(sp?) the DevilMag? I mean, it is a very tourney-worthy gun, and for $900...wow. I seriously wish i had that kiind of cash.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

No offense taken.....
I love my mag, I play with it every chance I get. The whole point of my thread is vent about AGD and the non participation approach to paintball. I'm glad it rattled some cages but the folks at AGD are not going to come out with something new anytime soon and that disappoints me. If WGP can do it AGD should be able to as well.

Personally i wish theyd do soemthin as well but the truth is they prob never are. Personally id love to see a revamped version of the xmag r somethin, thatd be sweet.

[WARPED1]

If AGD was smart(which marketingwise they're not), they would buy the DevilMag design from GADevil and produce it full fledged. Drop all thier other guns except maybe the TAC One for scenario guys.

[Lohman446]

If AGD was smart(which marketingwise they're not), they would buy the DevilMag design from GADevil and produce it full fledged. Drop all thier other guns except maybe the TAC One for scenario guys.


Say they had the Devilmag, and were producing it available for sale in a box, you could order it, the same as a Shocker. Now.. understand I have ordered a DM, I like the idea, but lets look at what would be seen about it.

1) Still uses a spring rather than air, this is going to effect efficiency.
2) Still kicks like a mag.
3) Still can't shoot really low in the tank
4) Still does nto have an "upgradeable" regulator
5) Still has the acknowledged RT effect shoot up.

There is/was potential for something new from AGD... I just worry how much of it has left, and what he company intends to do now. I would love to see AGD do something dramatic, but they seem unwilling to under the current legal enviroment (there may be both civil and criminal liability issues when someone is hurt using a ramping marker) which one cannot blame them for. Do you think taht you can compete without offering ramping? Do you think that AGD is going to take that risk any more?

[WARPED1]

They could spend some money on R+D and marketing to improve it instead of pinching pennies so tight they scream bloody murder..

[Lohman446]

They could spend some money on R+D and marketing to improve it instead of pinching pennies so tight they scream bloody murder..


Say I made a marker that got 3000 rounds off a 45/45 tank, had an HES / magno trigger (I think AGD got this right, best trigger I ever found) that was insanely fast and could shoot 50BPS without shootdown, it also had a perfect proactive anti-chop system but had a true semi-only mode and no supporting software to make it faster than semi-only. Would it sell?

Ohh.. good question, I think it deserves its own thread...

Edit: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175497

[mgould4409]

OK now for my two cents, I listened to all of you make some good points and some very bad points.

As far as "competition" with other markers such as a shocker, cocker, timmey or what ever, it boils down to simple physics. Yes I am an engineer.

1. Accuracy- It is the barrel and paint matching period. Everyone matches their own with what ever barrel combo within .01 of an inch.

2. Valve air pressure - They are basically all the same because they are governed to as everyone knows 300 FPS or less depending on the tournament. Every manufacturer out there has a soft bolt that "surrounds" the paintball with the exact amount of air pressure.

3. Ramping - Yes a marker will shoot faster with a little help. No, a mechanical marker will not shoot as fast as an electro with ramping. AGD simply has not gone the way of this because their focus has changed. But this does not mean you cannot buy a predator board which is more evolved than most generic DM5's, shockers, etc. The devil mag is a good example of this. It is claimed to shoot redicuosly fast without shoot down.

4. EYES - Yes only the xmags have eyes and maybe AGD should attempt at producing a more competitive gun for tournament level. But this can be accomplished by ordering a devil mag. It is only 900 dollars for the custom gun that is HAND BUILT and not from an assembly line. They only use parts that are proven.

5. Asthetics (looks) - yes you can ano it any color you like or put stickers on it like most of the pros or you can buy a karta main body. Yes the karta body is three hundred dollars but a nice aluminum DM5 is 1250 on sale.

Most tournament players that I have come across enjoy fiddiling with their marker and improving it whenever possible. When it is all said and done, every elite marker will cost probably 800 - 1300+ dollars, shoot ropes of paint in a circle of about 6 -12 inches. This is a proven fact period.

The only difference I see is preference, availability, feel, minimal cost difference, history or heritage, and marketing.

I am going to give you a little lesson about marketing in one analogy. Open any current paintball magazine and you will see ads from all the big boys out there and not really the custom shops because of the overhead.

OK here is the analogy (because I know Audio a little better than paintball)
Name any top teir speaker company that produces high quality speakers for listening and home theater. When this question is asked to the average person most will say "Bose Speakers" because of a commercial or ad they have seen. But yet most will never even know a good speaker because they will not take the time to research it. BOSE spends a TON on advertising and having their stores in the mall. They are however a very sub-par speaker, they are not useless but, they are not even in the same category as most speakers in the same price range. Have you ever wondered why when you walk into a 6th ave or any other electronics place that sells them, they are not with the other speakers to be demoed? They cannot compete with other speakers that are bigger and better. Yes they do make nice small speakers but that is about it. This is where physics comes in, the cubes are not big enough to produce the low frequencies that the company even claims. This is why you will not see them around other speaker with good midrange drivers.

OK, this has gone on long enough. but I hope you get the point, I am glad so many people have so many opinions but just throw in a little science once in a while and think about what you are saying.



:cheers:

[Enemy]

My gun will be new and will not have to be upgraded. (turns nose up and dusts shoulder off)

have fun with your non he shocker!! i have a shocker and an xmag! lets tally the total for both on upgrades!

xmag: trigger 50
xpower 50
total: 100

shocker: HE bolt 80
clamping feedneck 35
new frame 110
new board 150
Total: 375




next lets take into account that the shocker is made of cheap aluminum not 6061 so its anno doesnt stay and has even been known to just rub off! lets also add that it has bolt stick so bad that it has a tendency to not even work on the first shot and craves more grease than anyother gun on the market!

[mags247]

have fun with your non he shocker!! i have a shocker and an xmag! lets tally the total for both on upgrades!

xmag: trigger 50
xpower 50
total: 100

shocker: HE bolt 80
clamping feedneck 35
new frame 110
new board 150
Total: 375




next lets take into account that the shocker is made of cheap aluminum not 6061 so its anno doesnt stay and has even been known to just rub off! lets also add that it has bolt stick so bad that it has a tendency to not even work on the first shot and craves more grease than anyother gun on the market!

I have the nerve board stock. The stock feedneck is lo profile and holds my egg fine, why would I need a new frame? The bolt is less than 80 but let's say 80 for grins.

Simple math $80 is still less than $100. Do you disagree?