BPS challenge have a vid

[yakitori]

I have a video that I took of my shooting my Ion and I need help analyzing and hosting the vid. Anyone care to help.

Since Lohman and Beemer said that its VERY rare for anyone to shoot and maintain 15bps for 5 seconds, I tried it.

This was in SEMI mode on my Ion.

I counted out 100 balls of scortch from a 200 rd container. I know that it takes a second or so to get the rythym going, but that is why I took 100 balls. I calculated that 15bps for 5 seconds is 15 x 5 = 75 balls. So I used 100 to make sure that I could account for any bad rythym at first. Some please analyze the sound clip for me from the time I actually start getting good rythym and for 5 seconds. Then take my average balls per second, and let ups know what it is.

I watched the video and counted like 3-4 balls at first that were out of rythym, then subtracted that from 100. I had only one ball left in the halo when I was done that didnt get fed. So that is maybe like 95 balls I actually shot in good rythym. From the media player I counted the seconds from when I started getting going good which was around 19 sec. into the vid, and then the time when all the shots were gone which was around 25 seconds. So that was 6 seconds of shooting and at 95 balls total. So 95/6 = 15.8 bps.

I know its not as accurate as a sound analyzer program. So will someone help.

I have the video on my computer, but I need help hosting. Anyone care to help me earn about 120 bucks from these three users.

bound for glory - 50
beemer - 50
lohman - 20

:p

I expect to see graphs and calculations too.

If they pay up, I will compensate the person who helps w/ the vid.

Thanks

[yakitori]

oh, and one condition. The ppl that said I cant do it cannot help to earn your money back.

After all you are all adults, you work, you have money. ;)

[SCpoloRicker]

*hrm*

You may want to shoot Blennindae, Z-man, or someone I'm obviously forgetting a PM. I know Blenn and Z have both done soundwave stuff before.

As for "the 15bps bet"; there were some implied conditions that I'm not sure if you've met.

We shall see. :)

[yakitori]

*hrm*

You may want to shoot Blennindae, Z-man, or someone I'm obviously forgetting a PM. I know Blenn and Z have both done soundwave stuff before.

As for "the 15bps bet"; there were some implied conditions that I'm not sure if you've met.

We shall see. :)

what are the "implied" conditions. I said that I could shoot an avg of 15bps or more for a period of 5 seconds. Are the implied rules that every second I must be over 15 bps? Cause there are a couple of skipped shots, but for the most part it is a decent rythym. The condition was that I couldnt shoot 15bps over a 5 second period, and I think I may have done it. I have tried to upload to putfile.com, but I recieved an error msg like cannot find server.


I will try again. I have dialup so this is taking longer than I expected. As for walking 15bps, I dont think I can do that. I think Im more around 12bps w/ spikes to 14 or so.

Cant wait to get the vid up though. It is a little shaky at first cause Im shooting on my own, and I didnt have anyone to take it for me.

Anyone willing to help w/ the file?
:clap:

[hitech]

Getting the file to someone is going to be difficult. If you figure out how to get it to me(email, pm attachment, ???), I'll "host" it and link it to this thread.

[bound for glory]

i got my 50 right here, lightweight :rolleyes:

[Lohman446]

It is obviously more possible with five seconds than 8, or ten seconds. And I do reiterate that I did acknowledge that a few people, VERY few, would be able to do it. We went from an initial challenge of eight seconds to five. The challenge I issued was sustain it for 5 seconds, that is not average out to. That being said, if you averaged 15BPS for a full five seconds to the rest of the terms I'll still give it to you. That being said, I do not expect Beemer or Bound for Glory to be obligated to it, the terms were very clearly sustained not averaged.

If you in fact did it, and met the terms, then I'm going to need your paypal. I do expect you to acknowledge somewhere that it is not something that everyone who claims they do it, do. I do not have the ability to analyze it myself, I will try if you want to send me the video to Lohman446@aol.com.

This was not the entire 15BPS bet as has been done elsewhere - the one that has so far proven impossible. What I asked for is possible, for a very select few people I imagine. You would have to look up the original post to make sure this is what I said, but if I recall it was something like:
1) I required to be able to see the trigger pulls and attribute them to a shot fired. (basically a verification that it was not rebound mode or enhaced, or bounce).
2) I required it be sustained 15+ BPS for 5 seconds. Now there is some question of sustained or averaged - the terms were sustained, but for Yak here I will honor averaged.
3) That it be with paint.

[bound for glory]

:tard: oh, come on, lohman! we both know yak IS NOT going to hit 15. and when did it drop to 5 secs.? but in the very unlikly event yak does hit 15, not only will he get $50us from me, i'll also laser ingrave his name on my devilmag and i'll give him a great big wet kiss :rofl: boy, the length people will go to make idiots of themselves...

[SCpoloRicker]

Sweet. I don't know if I should start hollering "Someones got a plate full of crow sandwich coming up" or pull up a plate myself.

And for what its worth, my understanding of the conditions from the earlier bet were

1. NPPL robot legal trigger settings
2. No enhanced rate of fire settings
3. paint
4. I had thought it was 10 secs. But whatever the time, it was >15 bps sustained. As in; at no point during the sequence does the gap between shots drop below 15 bps.

[yakitori]

I emailed the file to you lohman at your AOL addy. I hope it works. It didnt seem to take as long as I though to send it, so Im not sure if everything went through good. Let me know.

:D

[MicroMiniMe]

Paging Leatherpant....
Leatherpants to thread 4.

I recall LP being the generally accepted fastest fingers on AO.

[Lohman446]

Sweet. I don't know if I should start hollering "Someones got a plate full of crow sandwich coming up" or pull up a plate myself.

And for what its worth, my understanding of the conditions from the earlier bet were

1. NPPL robot legal trigger settings
2. No enhanced rate of fire settings
3. paint
4. I had thought it was 10 secs. But whatever the time, it was >15 bps sustained. As in; at no point during the sequence does the gap between shots drop below 15 bps.


I made the bet simpler... for various reasons. 1) I can't test it on the NPPL robot 2) I required to see trigger pulls, to avoild enhanced 3) I required paint 4) I dropped it to five because Yak told me how "easy" it was to do for 5-8 seconds on the break 5) I did require it to be sustained, but as I have said, if he averaged it on this video (and this is your one chance for the average) then I'll still pay it.


I can sustain 15bps for what I need it for. You can sustain it for about 5-8 seconds on a break? If not you need to practice and youve used ramping too long.

When I challenged him to an 8 second video he waffled it down to five, so I challenged him to a 5 second video instead. He MAY have done it... I doubt it but I admit he may have to some degree. I doubt he sustained it

[abunkerer]

This thread is fun to watch, because it is the stereotypical "Yo, I can walk my My DMfizzle 20 bps no problem" funny/sad thing is that some people really think they can..usually it comes close to 10-12.


For those interested, this discussion started here: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175402&page=1&pp=30

THere has been a fair amount of back-peddaling going on from Yak. He went from being able to hit 15 bps for "as long as he needed to" off the break or 5-8 seconds, to "well over" 15 while using the illusive "raking technique", then being able to sustain 15 for 5-8 seconds, but "more like 5", and now it's hitting 15bps on an average within 5 seconds.

Can he do it?! Some claim it to be impossible, but not me!

I say: Go get em' Yak! don't let them tell you what you can or can't do, you can do it!

:shooting:

[Lohman446]

I emailed the file to you lohman at your AOL addy. I hope it works. It didnt seem to take as long as I though to send it, so Im not sure if everything went through good. Let me know.

:D


I did not get any e-mail to AOL yak... I have all SPAM guards turned off to

[SCpoloRicker]

Just to be fair abunkerer I'm pretty sure that others have had a standing wager on the whole 15 bps thing.

yakitori is just the latest and greatest. Hopefully we'll get a soundwave done and we can be done with this.

[Jack & Coke]

...I have the video on my computer, but I need help hosting...




Uload your video and host it for free here:


http://www.putfile.com/

or

http://www.yousendit.com/


then come back and post the link they send you...

:cheers:

[yakitori]

I made the bet simpler... for various reasons. 1) I can't test it on the NPPL robot 2) I required to see trigger pulls, to avoild enhanced 3) I required paint 4) I dropped it to five because Yak told me how "easy" it was to do for 5-8 seconds on the break 5) I did require it to be sustained, but as I have said, if he averaged it on this video (and this is your one chance for the average) then I'll still pay it.



When I challenged him to an 8 second video he waffled it down to five, so I challenged him to a 5 second video instead. He MAY have done it... I doubt it but I admit he may have to some degree. I doubt he sustained it

I even shot a little slow at first to show its not in rebound. Once I get into the rythym you will see.

I said 5-8 seconds because that is about how long an avg breakout is. I later said numerous times that it is prolly closer to 5 than 8, but hey, Ill do you the pleasure if I win. I will go buy more paint and shoot a full hopper just the same as I did in the vid.

Dont trash talk when you havent even seen it yet. It is being scanned my norton and it is about 50 percent sent. I do have dial up...remember.

And lohman is the one that dropped it down to 5. read here. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175402&page=3

Ive already said that Im not a robot, and that dropping below 15 is going to be very difficult because of rythym. There are a couple skipped shots, but I think that I maintained it for 5 seconds on avg. If not, it is pretty damn close.

I recal saying that I am not a robot and I dont have sensors to tell me when I am below 15. And once you fall below, you fall below. You cant get a perfect rythym going forever, but a couple skipped shots aint bad.

[abunkerer]

yeah, I know...I remember the one over on pbnation for a thousand dollars, I'm just being silly, too much coffee



Just to be fair abunkerer I'm pretty sure that others have had a standing wager on the whole 15 bps thing.

yakitori is just the latest and greatest. Hopefully we'll get a soundwave done and we can be done with this.

[yakitori]

its about 75 percent sent. It is on its way to you though lohman, hold tight.

I have 56k so its slow, but it is coming.

[Lohman446]

its about 75 percent sent. It is on its way to you though lohman, hold tight.

I have 56k so its slow, but it is coming.


I'll look at it, might send it to hitech as well though, he has hosting abilities :) Im just going to satisfy my own curiosity seeing the vid. YOu might be right on this, but I expect you are going to be surprised at what it actually is

[yakitori]

I'll look at it, might send it to hitech as well though, he has hosting abilities :) Im just going to satisfy my own curiosity seeing the vid. YOu might be right on this, but I expect you are going to be surprised at what it actually is


I will be suprised what it actually is too. Remember, there is a period of 5 seconds in there where I am shooting the fastest. That is why I chose 100 balls. Since 15 * 5 = 75 that gave me about 25 shots or so to get into the rythym.

Also, my email just said that I cannot send it cause its too big. I am trying to send again. I have tried putfile, and it didnt work. I will try the other vid hosting that was suggested.

This is my first time of putting a vid up, so be patient. I am a noob at this. :D.

[hitech]

Here is another one to try:

http://www.mypicgallery.com

[yakitori]

ok guys, I think putfile worked finally. Someone w/ a faster connection speed than me will have to check.

Here is the link

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=MVI_0328_3


Please let us know if it works. We will worry about analyzing it later

Thanks for everyones patience, I know Im slow on the computer. :D

[bleachit]

not working for me..

[mag88888]

not working for me either.

[Lohman446]

Me either.. driving you insane yet Yak. See, noone would have ever put up a video if I had simply said prove it, because for some of us making the video, and getting it uploaded would be a pain. Theres an incentive here, prove me wrong and I'll paypal you the money. I thought it was a fair incentive - not that I really beleive Im going to be proven wrong yet...

[Flow_Tech]

it works for me,but its only like 1 second long with no shooting? :confused:

[JimmyBeam]

i couldnt get it to work

[yakitori]

try this link. This is the second time Ive uploaded it to putfile. I dont know why its not working.

I am going to keep trying to email it to you and try to figure out why it wont work. Im sure its something very simple and Im just not getting it.

*shakes head* Sorry guys.

I will keep trying though.

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=MVI_0328_381

[bleachit]

2nd one doesnt work for me either

[SteelSoul]

how big is the file?

[yakitori]

this is freakin sad. Im pulling my hair out.

I will find a way guys. Dont worry, it will get put up.

:D.

Sorry its not working, but Ive done everything Im supposed to.

I tried compressing the file to send via email. Still have problems, even from my home email.

Ive uploaded to the putfile twice. The site says that they allow .avi file types, which it is, but it still wont upload.

I am now trying to resend the email to Lohman.

Lohman, does your AOL email have a limit to filesize that you can recieve? If so, does anyone have an email address that I can send it to?

Thanks guys.

I apologize for this again.

[doober]

works for me

[doober]

worked perfectly fine for me, pretty fast, but your not walking the trigger

[SCpoloRicker]

I'd like to say that this thread is in a much better tone overall than the one this morning. :) :cheers:

Now: Lets see it.

[yakitori]

so it works for you! :D Great.

the file is like 7.9 MB

Is there anyway you can get it so that others can see it. I already said that I get to choose the trigger technique. And the stock Ion trigger is hardly that "walking friendly"

I was told that I could not shoot 15 bps, and thats what I was trying to acheieve. I hope it starts working for everyone else.

I went through a lot of trouble to get it up and I want ppl to see it now.

And yes. Even if I didnt accomplish what I said I could, at least I changed the demeaner or any animosity (spelling?) between anyone. I think there should be more things like this to spark discussion instead of us ending up arguing about things.

peace. Please let us know if anyone else can see it.

[Automaggot68]

Paging Leatherpant....
Leatherpants to thread 4.

I recall LP being the generally accepted fastest fingers on AO.


Thats only when he's eating during the video, though.
/sandwich

[brikar]

video worked for me as well...but I cant count that fast...

second one yakatori

[yakitori]

hey guys, which link worked for you? the first one or the second one?

[Boydster]

Second video. That's pretty darn fast.

[yakitori]

ok guys. when I go onto the putfile site for me it says its been viewed 4 times, so I know some of you have seen it. I dont know why its so slow. Maybe there is some kind of lag time from thier server from the time I upload until the time it can be viewed.

I dont know .

Hitech, I got your PM and I tried everything, I kept getting a "page cannot be displayed" screen when I click on my documents under the briefcase. I have no idea what to do now. I think I will just hang tight and see if they putfile starts working for more ppl.

I hope so.

Thanks for being patient guys. :cheers:

[hAppy]

Get on aim!

[Lohman446]

I have yet to see it, but I'm really just waiting on teh sound analysis

[viper_ssc]

For those that putfile does not work for heres another link to it
http://www.p8ntball226.com/yakitori.avi
I hosted it on my website so it should work.
I used goldwave and noticed it was only 14 BPS most of the time, but this is the first time using goldwave so I don't know really how to do it so I could be wrong.

[yakitori]

If that one doesnt work, then this one should.

http://akaowners.org/upload/MVI_0328_3.AVI

Im waiting on sound analysis.

Remember, it has to be 5 seconds of shooting anywhere throughout the vid. I would take the time from 14sec. to 20 seconds and analyize it. Actually 14-19, or 15-20.

Let us know how it turned out.

I will PM ya w/ my paypal addy guys. :D.

[Gumbe]

give me the fingur :mad: that fast how do you do that :confused:

[yakitori]

give me the fingur :mad: that fast how do you do that :confused:


lol, sorry bout the birdie. that was just my natural feel. It had nothing to do w/ the situation, I promise. :D

soundwave anyone?

[SCpoloRicker]

And yes. Even if I didnt accomplish what I said I could, at least I changed the demeaner or any animosity (spelling?) between anyone. I think there should be more things like this to spark discussion instead of us ending up arguing about things.


But aren't we just going to end up circling, saying nothing, and riding the mag bandwagon? ;)

[rx2]

I analyzed the sound file in both Pro Tools and Steinberg Wavelab 5.0, using an absolute grid set to 1 second increments. I selected exactly five seconds of the sound file, and I selected from the middle to ensure that I didn't count the beginning, where you were a lot slower, and the ending in which you tapered off a bit. So, after selecting the fastest five seconds of the sound file, I cleaned up the audio a little using plugins from WAVES, and then counted the total number of shots fired, and divided by five to get the average. The number that I came up with after two counts in either program (4 total) was 13.8 bps, or 69 shots total. There were moments that 16 bps was hit, but the AVERAGE was 13.8. Now, I should state that I made absolutely certain that I was including every peak that was an actual shot. Due to echo, and a cheap microphone, there are peaks in the file that were not actual shots, and thus should not be counted. I scrubbed through these peaks several times, at full and half-speed, to determine that they were not actual shots.

So, I am confident that the sound file does not represent 15 bps. If you factor in the slower beginning and end, the average falls even lower.

[warbeak2099]

I'm guessing that will average out to around 13-14bps. Someone goldwave it or something.

[yakitori]

I analyzed the sound file in both Pro Tools and Steinberg Wavelab 5.0, using an absolute grid set to 1 second increments. I selected exactly five seconds of the sound file, and I selected from the middle to ensure that I didn't count the beginning, where you were a lot slower, and the ending in which you tapered off a bit. So, after selecting the fastest five seconds of the sound file, I cleaned up the audio a little using plugins from WAVES, and then counted the total number of shots fired, and divided by five to get the average. The number that I came up with after two counts in either program (4 total) was 13.8 bps, or 69 shots total. There were moments that 16 bps was hit, but the AVERAGE was 13.8. Now, I should state that I made absolutely certain that I was including every peak that was an actual shot. Due to echo, and a cheap microphone, there are peaks in the file that were not actual shots, and thus should not be counted. I scrubbed through these peaks several times, at full and half-speed, to determine that they were not actual shots.

So, I am confident that the sound file does not represent 15 bps. If you factor in the slower beginning and end, the average falls even lower.


Graph please. I am supposed to just take your word for it? If you goldwaved it, it shouldnt take you that long to take a frame and post it as a pic.

Let me know. This was done w/ a digital camera. A sony powershot a75, and I was shooting a plastic trashcan. That was probably what caused an echo.

And, is it possible that if you too the actual peaks of shots, and didnt set the increments to 1 sec. that I couldve avg. 15. Say you took one peak at the fastest period of shooting and peaked it to another shot 5 seconds away, that would be 15. Lower your increments of time to about .25 seconds and take the frame over a 5 second period. that will give a more accurate analysis.

I personally feel you should lower your time scale less than one second. That can cause the results to be off by more than 1bps, in such a short shooting frame.

[rx2]

Eh, give me a few minutes here. I have to re-extract the sound file, load it into PT, re-analze, snapshot, load into Photoshop, crop, save, and post. By the way, I will have to post all five seconds, so it will be a large file.

[Lohman446]

Yak, going off the prelim analysis, which I am open to see more, let me tell you this... you did two things I did not think would happen

You averaged over 13 for five seconds - I expected to see analysis show 9-11 12-13 tops. that in itself is an accomplishment.

You peaked a full second at 16BPS... I know higher is possible, two shots at a total of 20BPS for instance or more, but 16 for a full second is more than I would have thought you would have managed.

Maybe you did better, but you see how fast that is (and I still cant get the video (56K at home)) and its incredibly fast to most people. 15BPS is more than anyone can beleive it is, it comes from eharing about ridiculous numbers for so long.

Edit (assuming above is correct) you didn't get 15 :p :D (all in good fun man)

[yakitori]

Eh, give me a few minutes here. I have to re-extract the sound file, load it into PT, re-analze, snapshot, load into Photoshop, crop, save, and post. By the way, I will have to post all five seconds, so it will be a large file.


I would like for someone else to analyze it too. I think I couldvle hit 15 for 5 sec. If you lower your time increments to .25 or even .1 and account for a five second period, Ill bet there is 15 shots avg in there somewhere.

I know how to read graphs, I am a science major. I think by setting it to 1 sec. that it is making it more bias toward "not acheiving it"

I know you are doing this voluntarily and I dont mean to insult in any way at all, but I just would like a more detailed analysis.

Also we are talking 1bps differnce here. And human judgement is not always that accurate, so I still think its possible that I shot 15bps over 5 sec.

If not, hey no biggie. Its still plenty fast. And its on an Ion that is capped at 17 I beleive. I have my ROF blinks set to like 25, but If I maxed it out, it might help.

Also w/ a gun that has Unlimited ROF and an angry board, Like my Viking, I think I could do it. ONly thing is, I dont have a two finger trigger. I only have a razor blade. It is a double trigger, but there is no hump in the middle.

[yakitori]

Yak, going off the prelim analysis, which I am open to see more, let me tell you this... you did two things I did not think would happen

You averaged over 13 for five seconds - I expected to see analysis show 9-11 12-13 tops. that in itself is an accomplishment.

You peaked a full second at 16BPS... I know higher is possible, two shots at a total of 20BPS for instance or more, but 16 for a full second is more than I would have thought you would have managed.

Maybe you did better, but you see how fast that is (and I still cant get the video (56K at home)) and its incredibly fast to most people. 15BPS is more than anyone can beleive it is, it comes from eharing about ridiculous numbers for so long.

Edit (assuming above is correct) you didn't get 15 :p :D (all in good fun man)


keep in mind though lohman, this is my Ion. It is capped at 17. I dont get much room to get higher than that. Ill bet that I peaked at more than that, given the unlimited rof w/ WAS which is uncapped.

That and it was a stock Ion trigger w/ a heated magnet to lighten it.

I still think that the time frame should be shortened enough to account for more than 1bps. Cause setting it to 1 sec. gives me a +- 1 ball that couldve been fired.

That and I only did that one time. If I had enough paint and a faster gun, and enough time, I would have definitely proved the three of you wrong.

:cheers:

[rx2]

To prove that I am not a fabricator out to ruin the bet of someone I don't know, here is a screenshot of the peak data in Pro Tools. In order to fit the whole thing on the screen, I had to zoom out, so it is a little harder to read. Other than that, it is the raw audio data from the clip, completely untouched. Please note that it does contain a few peaks that are of low energy - these are not actual shots fired, but rather background noise, so they do not count. There are only a few of these dubious peaks, though, so it isn't too hard.

This should demonstrate that I am not fabricating numbers. As I said, you did hit 16 a couple of times, but you also missed a few shots, which I am sure hurt things.

Also, setting the time grid to a lower increment changes nothing, really. I began at the beginning of a peak. No matter what I set it at, the selection would still end at the same precise point. The only thing that would change the matter is if I started the selection earlier or later. Just as a pound is a pound the world around, five seconds is five seconds, no matter how you slice it. I too, would like others to analyze it, to ensure objectivity in analysis. As someone with a degree in math and biology, I also know a thing or two about graphs and scientific process.

<img src="http://members.core.com/~ctron/bps_analysis.jpg">

[Lohman446]

keep in mind though lohman, this is my Ion. It is capped at 17. I dont get much room to get higher than that. Ill bet that I peaked at more than that, given the unlimited rof w/ WAS which is uncapped.

That and it was a stock Ion trigger w/ a heated magnet to lighten it.

I still think that the time frame should be shortened enough to account for more than 1bps. Cause setting it to 1 sec. gives me a +- 1 ball that couldve been fired.

That and I only did that one time. If I had enough paint and a faster gun, and enough time, I would have definitely proved the three of you wrong.

:cheers:


Even if it is a +/- 1 difference, that only gets you to an average of 14.8 - we have not even discussed the difference between average and sustained. Though I am open to further analysis and the possibility of flawed at this point. I would also remind you, nicely, that you were the one who stated how "easy" it was and that everyone should be able to do it. I say this in niceness, and it does nto translate well over the internet. 15BPS is not as simple as so many belevie it to be

[yakitori]

at least everyone who watched the vid knows that I am from the south right? :p How do yall like my draw. :D.

[abunkerer]

^Right, the point is that it is nearly impossible to pull 15bps in a game setting, and those kids that say that they "shoot 15-20bps no problem" just sound silly to people who know what is realistic.

To get a gun to shoot that fast you have to probably hold the gun in a certain way and/or do some wacky trigger pull that would be ineffective/inaccurate and get you shot if you tried to use it in a game.
I did hear that Bob long was able to pull 15 but his gun was probably bouncing haha.

Your average of 13 is pretty respectable, good job yak!

[yakitori]

Even if it is a +/- 1 difference, that only gets you to an average of 14.8 - we have not even discussed the difference between average and sustained. Though I am open to further analysis and the possibility of flawed at this point. I would also remind you, nicely, that you were the one who stated how "easy" it was and that everyone should be able to do it. I say this in niceness, and it does nto translate well over the internet. 15BPS is not as simple as so many belevie it to be


I didnt say that everyone should be able to do it, I just said that they need more practice. And I will remind you again, this was an ION. If my peak was higher, and I maintained it over a certain period of time, you would be wrong. You do realize that dont you.

You just said two posts up that ppl can peak at over 20 bps for a short period of time. Wouldnt that increase my avg? yes. But, Like I said, the Ion is not capable of much more than 15, so hey.

So as this pertains to ramping, what is the difference between a 14 bps or a 15bps. My point is that it levels the playing field. Everyone else states that there is more to the game that shooting fast. So, by setting a cap at 15 it allows everyone to be capable of the same speed, yet it allows those other skills to come into play more. That is why everything requires practice.

So, my point is that I can acheive 15bps in a game for what it is needed for. Emphasis on NEEDED FOR. I also said that the longest time you need to shoot that fast is on a break out for about 5-8 seconds. The rest of the game is basically snapshooting, and running after pinning someone in their bunker. Am I wrong?

And so my question to you is, the 15bps rule allows how many balls per second MAX? 15 right. So, even ramping guns w/ their timing will be a bit under 15 will they not? For the most part they will be right around 14.8 or so. Plesae correct me if Im wrong.

Besides. Im a front guy. I am more of a in your face, bunker yo azzzz, not a back sweetspotter.

And Everyone has taken my statement out of context. I said AS LONG AS I NEED TO, and the LONGEST WOULD BE 5-8 seconds. And the REST IS SNAPSHOOTING. So, as long as I NEED IT would not be all that long right? I peaked at 16bps for OVER a whole second. Even though the trigger technique is not what I normally would do, I could sustain 15bps for as long as I needed..........WHICH IS NOT VERY LONG.

do you guys get it now.

[minimag03]

I can tell you that it isn't 15 bps for 5 seconds just by watching it. I do have to give you credit for being able to shoot that fast on a semi Ion with stock trigger.

[yakitori]

^Right, the point is that it is nearly impossible to pull 15bps in a game setting, and those kids that say that they "shoot 15-20bps no problem" just sound silly to people who know what is realistic.

To get a gun to shoot that fast you have to probably hold the gun in a certain way and/or do some wacky trigger pull that would be ineffective/inaccurate and get you shot if you tried to use it in a game.
I did hear that Bob long was able to pull 15 but his gun was probably bouncing haha.

Your average of 13 is pretty respectable, good job yak!

you say that like the analysis is complete. Its only been done by one person. And all it was was a statement. If you read my posts above, you would understand why a time increment of 1 second is not a good timing frame when you are taking Balls Per SECOND.

I still think that I was closer to 14 than 13. But ya, Im not disappointed at all.

You think thats funny, Jim Drew told me in an email that he can shoot 18-20 legally. I think maybe he meant peaking.

I actaully think that is what most ppl mean when they say they can shoot this or that many balls per second.

[hitech]

If you want to step up the ROF a little, use manike's raking technique. Rake all the way down to the "hook" at the bottom of the trigger and back up. That gives you one extra shot per rake cycle. :D

_____________________________________________
<img src="http://www.synreal.net/sig/hitech.gif">

Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD <img src=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4161d9d6_207d/bc/Hosting/smiley_mini102.gif?CCCglmBB7Iu5tWX9>
Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
The only Hitech Lubricant (http://www.kercon.com)

[yakitori]

ya, but then it takes the extra time to travel your finger over that distance. Unless I had a trigger w/ multiple humps in it, like say 4 humps, then I would just have to practice forever again. Trust me, Ive practiced alot. So much it gets on my wifes nerves hearing the trigger click all the time.

from the graph that you provided, I actually counted 71 peaks over a 5 second period. That was 71/5 = 14.2 over 5 seconds.

Everyone else count and post what you come up w/.

And Im sure that you can tell it wasnt 15bps by watching the vid. You can tell the differnce between 1 bps when its 14 or 15? Damn if you can, youre good.

[Insaneman1731]

What exactly do you want it like Goldwave'd? I will do it for "compsention". I think thats money. Lol.

[68magOwner]

2nd one worked for me, i believe it was stated that raking was not allowed (which you did) also, didnt sound terribly fast, but, could jsut be the vid

[Insaneman1731]

I can Goldwave..PM me...

AIM = Insaneman1731

[yakitori]

What exactly do you want it like Goldwave'd? I will do it for "compsention". I think thats money. Lol.

lol. Its all good man. Not a big deal. I think Ive done enough. I dont pay up unless I get payed. :D.

But the data has to be real. If you decide to do it, and its not 15bps, then no pay for me or you.

I think it is safe to say that I was bested on this one. I came close, and I did it in only one attempt w/ an Ion and a stock trigger.

I may not have the fastest fingers around, but like I said, Im a front guy. I like to run, dive, and snap. :ninja:

Honestly I dont really shoot that fast on the field. I only use what I need when I need it. I like to focus more on my moves than shooting fast.

But hey, it was fun to say the least. I do have a headache though from all that work today. :D.

What did everyone else count in the wave pic that was posted on page one. The red arrows at the top represents 5 seconds. I counted the peaks between them and divided by 5.

Anyone care to count?

[rx2]

I will say again - one second is one second, period. 5 instances of 1 second, or 50 instances of .1 second still eqauls one second. We are talking about sustained bps, NOT minimum time between two consecutive shots. As such, the result will still be the same NO MATTER WHAT MINIMUM INCREMENT IS USED. The only way anything would change would be if I cut off a peak, and discounted it, WHICH CLEARY DID NOT HAPPEN. When judging shots per second, it is illogical to say that a one second increment is inaccurate, when we are talking about measuring in shots per increment of one second. Furthermore, I would have to have dropped a total of 6 shots from the analysis in order to have miscalculated by the 1.2 shots per second needed to put you at 15. As for the two extra that you counted, I noted that there are a couple of erroneous peaks that aren't actual shots, and this is only evident when you scrub over it with the transport of your audio console, something that you cannot do with a mere .jpg...

I don't mean to sound hostile. It just seems like there are some sour grapes here, and you are now looking for ways to pick apart a sound analysis. If you would like, I could do it again using free selection, whereby the incremement would be a single sample. Being as I analyzed at 44100 Hz, the resultant increment would be 1/44100th of a second. Of course, you will still get the same exact result.

Oh well. I guess that we have come to a point where we not only need a video to prove that someone pulled the trigger, but another video of someone doing the analysis to prove that they aren't pulling a fast one.

In any case, in addition to using a faster board, perhaps you might want to try running around to get the blood flowing, and wiggling your hands in really warm water before your next attempt. That will get the adrenaline flowing, and also get your joints loose. I used to do this before recording in order to maintain utmost speed and fluidity. Seriously.

[yakitori]

2nd one worked for me, i believe it was stated that raking was not allowed (which you did) also, didnt sound terribly fast, but, could jsut be the vid

no actually in the other thread I said that I choose the trigger technique. I dont think I can walk that fast. Ive even said so in other posts, on numerous occasions.

[Lohman446]

I do need to say, that you came closer then I ever expected you too... :D

[Insaneman1731]

IM me. And send me the clip.

[Insaneman1731]

I got a clip. Give me a little time.

[yakitori]

I will say again - one second is one second, period. 5 instances of 1 second, or 50 instances of .1 second still eqauls one second. We are talking about sustained bps, NOT minimum time between two consecutive shots. As such, the result will still be the same NO MATTER WHAT MINIMUM INCREMENT IS USED. The only way anything would change would be if I cut off a peak, and discounted it, WHICH CLEARY DID NOT HAPPEN. When judging shots per second, it is illogical to say that a one second increment is inaccurate, when we are talking about measuring in shots per increment of one second. Furthermore, I would have to have dropped a total of 6 shots from the analysis in order to have miscalculated by the 1.2 shots per second needed to put you at 15.

I don't mean to sound hostile. It just seems like there are some sour grapes here, and you are now looking for ways to pick apart a sound analysis. If you would like, I could do it again using free selection, whereby the incremement would be a single sample. Being as I analyzed at 44100 Hz, the resultant increment would be 1/44100th of a second. Of course, you will still get the same exact result.

Oh well. I guess that we have come to a point where we not only need a video to prove that someone pulled the trigger, but another video of someone doing the analysis to prove that they aren't pulling a fast one.

If you used the fastest frame of peaks in the vid, and selected from peak to peak, then the time increments may not matter, but the way you stated it in the first post was that you set it to 5 seconds and moved the "5 second frame" around and took times. It would make a differnce of possibly +-1bps if you took the fastest grouping of balls.

I know 5 seconds is 5 seconds, Im not that dumb. Im saying that if the increment was lower that the time frame could possibly include one peak that wouldve otherwise been counted as .8 or whatever.

If you disagree, are you telling me that your analysis has a margin of error of 0.00000 bps?

I didnt mean to sound like you are pulling a fast one on me. I aplogize if you took it that way. I just went through a lot of trouble trying to get this vid put up and I was hoping that I might have done it. You have been very helpful in this and volunteering your work to analyze the sound clip, and for that you have my praise and thanks. :)

[Insaneman1731]

I can't save it..meaning I can't do it. Lol, I think that might be 15 actually at a point.

[yakitori]

I can't save it..meaning I can't do it. Lol, I think that might be 15 actually at a point.

but the bet was that it was an AVG of 15 over a 5 second period.

What I shoulve done was use more paint, and shot for a longer period of time to give myself a better chance of doing it. But, I selected 100 balls, and 15 for 5 seconds was 75balls, so I didnt give myself much room for error.

its all good guys. I will put this to rest. Again, I was bested on this one. :D

At least this thread got rid of any tension that was surfacing.

[jenarelJAM]

what you should do is use the raking technique stated above, using the lower hump as well. i do it on my emag, and instead of getting 2 balls per finger cycle, i actually get 4 (i think, possibly its just 3, but its too fast for me to tell :P). anyways, its not as consistant as what you have, but i believe that you could get faster using the bottom hump as well.btw, nice vid, and nice discussion, it was fun reading up about this.

[yakitori]

Oh well, now Im out 6 bucks on paintballs. Thats okay. It will make up for it this weekend at the AO TX meet and greet. I think paint is only 40 a case, and 5 bucks field fees and all day air. Not bad right. :D.

Im looking forward to it.

[bound for glory]

i will say you are one fast finger, yak. maybe not the 15, but faster than i thought you would go. i tip my devil to you.

[Tim Taylor]

I took a look at it and in a sample 2 second segment in the middle the BPS varies between 11.2 to 16.6. It is difficult to average it out but in the segment I sampled I would put it at 13.88.

I'm lucky to shoot 8 bps on my Emag so...

The info is in now who decides...

[Beemer]

Hats off to ya all. I can get the first round.

rx2..... Well done

Viper ssc.... good job on the hosting and trying the goldwave out.

Hitech......Nice Sig.

yakitori.....Hats off and kudos. Look at what ya learned about file posting. You have shown more class and style in this Thread then I thought ya had. You are on the line of the special few in ROF.[stop pissing off the wife :shooting: ] :nono: You werent bested just a hair slow :shooting: No more bets with you :cheers:

Lohman.....You seen the vid yet?????? and stop changing the bets after I post. :shooting: :cheers:

Bound for glory.......I still got 50 what do we do now. :cheers:

So what have we learned???????.

If it truly was only the special few to hit that ROF my risk is acceptable with multiple hits.
Whats the risk when everyone can do it. Remember Yak was on semi no ramping.

Peace Out

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/SigPic.jpg

[Skoad]

i might give a crack at this tomorrow.

what exactly do you want to see to check for bounce? some slow pulls-medium speed pulls? you want to see the trigger pulls more than anything else?

[Lohman446]

Beemer and Bound for Glory - I have another idea concerning BPS and bets... that we take the terms of ten second videos, full hopper, no bounce, must see finger movememtns in video and attribtue them to the marker firing, etc., we find someone willing to do goldwave analysis - and we run a contest to see who on AO has the fastest fingers... lets quit this "I can shoot 18BPS" nonsense here, lets have everyone step up and prove it. You each throw in $15, I'll throw in $20 and we'll run it for a month or so - give the winner $50 or so. It will cost each of us because there will be a winner, but it will involve anyone who wants to try it.

And yeh, Yak came much closer than I would have ever expected him to...

[Lohman446]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175620

Alright Yak, you're fast, but are you the fastest (new terms btw, check thread)

[yakitori]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175620

Alright Yak, you're fast, but are you the fastest (new terms btw, check thread)

U need a better trigger for my viking, and I think I can get better than what I did in this vid. The Ion is capped at 17 and I got 16.6, so I think that the uncapped WAS board could do a bit better. Im not going to buy a trigger just to try though. wait, I could dremmel down my stock Viking trigger w/ two humps. Hmmmm.

Should I do it? Na, Ill let others show what they can do. :D.

I dont have anything to prove anymore. I have other things I need to do. I will be stopping by to see how the contest is going though.

I know Im not the fastest though. I can tell you that w/o entering.

[bound for glory]

i'm in for the contest, lohman. and hey beemer! if you were in my area :cheers:

[UTDragun]

do stock dm3's have bounce? cuz on my friends it said i did 17
would jayloo be a good place to host?

[Lohman446]

do stock dm3's have bounce? cuz on my friends it said i did 17
would jayloo be a good place to host?

The "BPS" counter on guns are notoriously "vanity sized" and innaccurate. Besides, we are trying to measure for a sustained (or even averaged) ROF, not a peak ROF.

[TheTramp]

You're going to run into trouble with a general competition. With Yak and this little bet you could trust that he wasn't cheating. If you do a competition open to all then there WILL be cheating.

[Lohman446]

You're going to run into trouble with a general competition. With Yak and this little bet you could trust that he wasn't cheating. If you do a competition open to all then there WILL be cheating.

I may, I would like to think that AO is "better" than that... I'll watch for it, and disqualify as I need. I am hoping that AO as a whole is going to prove honorable

[Beemer]

i'm in for the contest, lohman. and hey beemer! if you were in my area :cheers:

Hey what state you in? Have :cheers: could travel. :bounce:

[UTDragun]

The "BPS" counter on guns are notoriously "vanity sized" and innaccurate. Besides, we are trying to measure for a sustained (or even averaged) ROF, not a peak ROF.
right, well i meant i was doing it consistantly, it peaked at 18, but if it doesnt bounce i could try a video

[bound for glory]

beemer, i'm in new jersey.