cocker or mag what yall think?

[ZeezNutz]

i am a new member of staff at a field near my home. they are looking at me to join their team. its a novice team. everyone there shoots cockers. my tippman 98 is not good for speedball because its about 3 feet long and still isnt nearlly as accurate as their guns. one guy is willing to sell me a mag for 225 and he says its in really good condition and works like a dream. this is a man who is also on the team and who i trust very well, but if you mention the word mag everyone else starts to flip out. they hate mags for some reason. they complain about how short the range is on a mag and say that they are harder to work on than cockers. what do yall think?

[Shaft]

Mag's do not have a shorter range.

Mag's are not hard to work on.

[cphilip]

Get yourself away from these guys as fast as you can. They have everything backasswords. Cept for the guy with the Mag. Trust him. The others are squirrel bait

[Sqweezer]

They're just ignorant. All they have heard is "cocker good mag bad. " I'm sure most of them have never worked on a mag.

[FeelTheRT]

those guys are paintball preps. There are nothing wrong wiht Mags and they preform very similar. Mags acutally are a million times more consistant than the Cocker stock. You might hear they say stuff like, Mags do'nt have as much range and accuracy as Cockers but thats all totally bogus. All guns have the same range as long as they are at 300fps. Accuracy is based upon teh paint to barrel match and the consistancy. There are other factors such as the recoil of the gun but both Mags and Cockers have very little. I currently shoot a Ccoker right now and I really do'nt notice much difference except for the trigger feel.

[MagNumPI]

Bieng a guy that owened both a cocker and a mag (guess which one I sold), the cocker is a nice gun , and the mag is a nice gun.. saying one shoots farther then the other implies that one of the two setups is either HOT or in under 280 fps.. take both systems and place them side by side , same paint , same velocity and fire.. you'll see they both are EXACTLY the same.

Downs: Cocker: -Timing (not a big deal but if done wrong you get a chopper)
-Pnematics , sure they look cool , but remeber the more moving parts, the more trouble they can produce.
-BLOWBACK , if it is not timed perfectly you get blowback.. results in ball soup.

Mags have next to no downs , except mabey blowback , fix get a new bolt or a powerfeed. mags are smaller and more responsive.. tell you "team friends" to get out of the hype and get into the technical.. EVERY gun fires the same distance if the paint to barrel match is good and the velocity is the same.

IMO Cockers are fun if you like show off a flashy marker and to stay at the staging area and fiddle , if you like to play and win buy a mag.

Simple!

[Russ]

Oh, how true! Range. Accuracy. Reliability. Get out of the hype and into the technical! Best line I've heard in a while! :D

[MagNumPI]

It's true.. ask any new cocker owner..

Why did you get the cocker?

"It is the most accurate marker in the game..."

What makes it this way?

"I don't know it just is.. besides it looks cool with the back block moving.. this makes it better"



Only an avid player will admit that they are both equal. Everyone else thinks is better cause it's flashy.

[FooTemps]

I want a mag...simple, tough, relable, and not a pain. I can only play paintball 4 times a year so I don't want to fiddle with stuff while I'm there, I want to enjoy the time I spend there... But I'll only do this if I win the rt that's up for grabs right now... or if I can scrounge up enough money to pay e_magman for his mag...

[PyRo]

Well, it really depends what you like more, mags or cockers. But no way is a mag harder to work on, you need an engineering degree to work on a cocker :). Maybie not that hard, but alot harder than a mag. Range is the same with all guns.

[zvanut]

go against the flow goldfish ;)

always wanted to say that :)

[gam-e]

i got a cocker to experience other types of markers, it has now become my primary marker.

why else did i get it? the moving back block

mmmmmmmmmh, look at the shiny chrome thing moving, aaaah

[MagMan5446]

You gotta listen to a lil' bit of public enemy.

Don't believe the hype!!

[MagNumPI]

You know what, I never thought of it that way and it probably makes sense on some level.

[The Mag Man]

I thought this story would be appropriate for this thread:
<p>
About 6 months ago, my friend bought a brand new PF Automag. He plays with for about a month. After one month, he goes back to the pro shop where he bought it at. They start telling him about the Autococker. "The Mags are good, but Cockers get more range and are more accurate." My friend took the bait perfectly. He walked out of that store with a brand new 2001 Cocker with a complete Freak set. Those guys at that shop knew exactly what they were doing the second he walked in. My point is that ignorant people will tell you anything to make THEMSELVES believe what they are saying. Take your "team" for example. They tell you that their cockers are better, but do they know why? NO, of course they don't because they are ignorant. Just because something costs more, doesn't make it better.
<p>
Stick with a Mag, and go give those Cocker boys hell.

[MagMan5446]

Your story is implying that the store owners are at fault. They're just trying to make a buck. It's your friends fault, he should've researched these things. The owners aren't ignorant, they're smart, it's your friend that's ignorant, no offense to him though.

[The Mag Man]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like the store was ingnorant. You are right, my bud was being ingnorant, thats why he fell hook line and sinker for their propaganda. But the store did pull off a nice scam on my bud. It just made me mad to think he just wasted 600 dollars. :mad:

[Russ]

The store in that 'Cocker story, is a lot like a store near me (and I suspect like a lot of stores, all around the country) There are perpetuating myths about a 'Cocker's range and accuracy being superior to most other guns, and a Mags rep for being a paint blender. It's too bad, really. I see a couple of my buds messing with their 'Cockers, air leaks, out of time, chopping balls, broken parts, and they take it all in stride. I get a barrel break in the E-Mag, and their all over me! Blender!

From what I've seen, a lot of 'Cocker problems come from peoples' perception that they MUST be modified to perform. This is far from the truth, but folks are compeled to modify them, and usually make them LESS reliable.

'Cocker or a Mag, get the one YOU like, not the one your "friends" say you should have. :)

[FooTemps]

All my friends say that the mag is a good paintballgun but they like the autococker cuz it looks cooler. They admit that they autococker better than the automag only because of looks and they don't care. But they all want high end electros like the emag, timmy, angel, shocker 4x4 turbo.

[Mild 7]

I have both cocker and mag, and I prefer my mag better for reliablitity. Here's my pros and cons about the both:

My Cocker:

(Pro)
1. Very, very quiet.
2. Good consistency.
3. Shoots very far and straight.
4. Don't chop ball.
5. Lighter--->CO2.

(Cons)
1. Bulky.
2. Very long trigger-pull (No trigger job)
3. Slow to fire, short-stroke easy.
4. High maintaince.
5. A LOT less reliable than my mag.

My RT:

(Pro)
1. Looks pretty.
2. High rate of fire.
3. Easy to maintain.
4. Easy to clean.
5. Extremely gas efficient.

(Cons)
1. God ITS HEAVY. (10 lbs. w/full loader & air)
2. Much louder than my cocker.
3. "I" feel the range is shorter than MY cocker.
4. Chopped more balls than my cocker.
5. Make me play paintball too much.

Both are great, and I love'em both. But, I've been using my RT faithfully for the past 3 years and used my cocker as a back-up gun. Funny thing is, I never had to use the back-up in the past 3 years.:D

[Miscue]

I ordered a Retro Valve from some paintball shop. I came to pick it up. They said they didn't order it because "I really didn't want one. It would turn my gun into a blender." I was kinda POed about that.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Miscue
I ordered a Retro Valve from some paintball shop. I came to pick it up. They said they didn't order it because "I really didn't want one. It would turn my gun into a blender." I was kinda POed about that.

LOL! WHAT IDIOTS!!! HAHAHAHA!!! Blender, LOL! LOL! Don't they know that the retro is the fastest valve on the market and no ultra-alpha-number uno-super-light-fast-mega-lighting-fire-water-Z-speed autococker could match it? Well, they would know that the retro is good but they want you to buy that ultra-blah, blah, blah... autococker for 2000 dolla....

[theraidenproject]

am i the only one that doesn't like the cocker back block moving? Seriously, point and shoot? or psst, clack, shoot? I think cockers are ok, but i very much prefer mags. also, about buying a mag, i think it's very smart to just sell it w/out barrel, hose connectoins, etc, b/c it makes it cheaper, and most people change all those anyway, as opposed to a cocker with comes with barrel, bottom line, etc (at least my friend's did anyway)

[MagNumPI]

Cockers don't coem with bottom line setups , you have to get the shop to install it, and it's extra.

[theraidenproject]

magnumpi - ok. my friends had one when he got it. i didnt know the store did it, i didn't ask, i just assumed it came with it.

[Bartman]

My personal preffrence would be a cocker.

But, there should be no diffrence in accuracy and range between the 2 guns.

It realy all comes down to personal preference in the end.


Bartman
team I have No Idea
www.ihni.org

[slateman]

Here we go again! Another stupid Mag v Cocker debate.

First off, this is an Automag forum supported by AGD.
What do you think were gonna do, recomend an autococker?!?

Second, its all about preference. I shot both guns before making a decision. I liked the mag better. I was just more comfortable with it. End of story.

Third,and I cannot stress this enough, RANGE IS EQUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a question of physics, and you can't cheat physics. (Well actually you can but thats way to complicated for here) A mag shooting 300fps will go the same distance as a cocker at 300fps if both have the same barrel.

Fourth, Mags are not harder to work on. In fact, IMO, they are easy. You need two tools, an allen wrench and a nickle.
Next time they say that, ask them how many times they worked on a mag. Better yet, ask them how many times they've replaced their three-way hoses:D :D


All in all, go with what your most comfortable with. If its a mag, great. Show us a picture and register it with AGD. If its a cocker, well thats great for you. But know this: I'm gunning for you:D :D

[ZeezNutz]

i practicly get spit at because i shoot something other then a cocker. i think about getting a mag and they jump on me even worse. this makes a person think. and i came here to ask if maby they were correct in some of the things they said or if they were wrong.

anyway,
thank you everyone else for your help. i am going to get that mag if it is what he says it is. and maby someone who they acctually know having a mag will help to set them strait on all this.





/me tramps off into the firey gates of "cocker is better then mag" hell holding his new mag

[ZeezNutz]

i almost forgot, anyone have any ideas on how to make my old talon into a berrel plug? is that even legal? help me out some of you technical wizards out there

[FooTemps]

You can turn your old talon into a barrel plug by...

Melting it and making a mold that would fit into the barrel with insets for o-rings for better fit.
Taking the talon body and plugging one side to make a hard plastic barrel condom.
OR
You could just go buy a plug...

[Arcturus62]

Let me dispel some myths:

1. Anyone who tells you that two different guns shooting the same FPS will shoot a ball the same distance is wrong. FPS is a measurement of velocity at some given instance. What is not taken into consideration is the rate of deceleration when the ball is coming out of the barrel. All balls are decelerating by the time they exit your barrel. Depending on the type of gun, the ball, the barrel (length and shape), and the type of impact mechanism, the rate of deceleration can differ. The people who posts the argument "it's simple physics, same speed=same distance" are not very astute. Two balls can both leave the barrel at 300FPS, but if one ball is decelerating faster, it will travel less. Deceleration has many factorsI was a professor of physics at UC Berkeley for nearly 8 years, and I will state as a matter of fact that velocity (although a factor) is not the primary function for determining the distance a ball will travel.

So how do you tell which gun shoots farther? Empirical evidence. As many will tell you, you have to shoot both to see which one you like. Shoot the AutoMag and then Shoot the Cocker. I personally believe that the cocker shoots farther, but I currently play with the Mag because it's more reliable and consistent. I will sacrifice a feet or two of distnace, if my gun can shoot the object I'm aiming at, and shoots when I tell it to shoot (aka: less ball crunching).


2. Automags are NOT harder to maintain. The level of compentency is a factor. Some people who are intellectually lower on the evolutionary ladder will tell you that Mags are hard to maintain. But once again, use empirical evidence. I believe that if you try cleaning the AutoMag once, then you will see that it is just as easy to clear and clean. Once you do it a couple of times, then it will be as easy as any other gun. It might take a few more steps than a Spyder or a step more than the Cocker, but in no way should that discourage you from getting the Mag. The maintenance is not only trivial, but also enjoyable.

When it comes down to it, people are going to upgrade their guns until the cows comes home, so you will always see someone on the field that looks like he can shoot farther, faster, or get better accuracy. Try out a few guns, buy the one that feels good to you, and then be proud of your purchase. Don't fall to "gun-envy". When it comes down to it, it's the man behind the gun that makes the most difference. Field Strategy, a semi-aggessive playing style, and a good attitude will make up for any hardware differences.

[covadsucks]

Talons Rule! LOL....I own both. I love them both as they are very accurate.

[MagNumPI]

Ok ok ok... I got a problem with

1. Anyone who tells you that two different guns shooting the same FPS will shoot a ball the same distance is wrong.

Your new to paintball arn't you.

Any gun shooting the same paint at 300 fps will go the same distance in a perfect world with absolutly no interferance.

Balls travel the same distance, they may seem they don't cause say the wind picks it up or it hits a tree..


Thats the way it is man.. go take physics..

[manike]

Originally posted by Arcturus62
Let me dispel some myths

Actually that Is what I am about to do for you...


Originally posted by Arcturus62
1. Anyone who tells you that two different guns shooting the same FPS will shoot a ball the same distance is wrong

Nope, they are correct if all other factors pertaining to the launch of the projectile are the same, such as mass of the projectile, angle and resistance to motion. These are factors completely independent of the type of gun and how it was fired which after the ball has left the barrel is irrelevant as long as it hasn't produced spin on the projectile. You as a physics professor should know this...


Originally posted by Arcturus62
What is not taken into consideration is the rate of deceleration when the ball is coming out of the barrel.

Very true, because it is COMPLETELY irrelevant. All balls after leaving the barrel are decelerating. They are decelerating due to resistance forces which comes from the air the ball moves through. This is the same for all balls fired from all guns. Wether the ball was accelerating up to the point it left the gun or decellerating is irrelevant. What maters is that we measured the velocity at a point after the ball left the barrel and is then under the same deceleration as any other ball would be. The rate of deceleration after the ball leaves the barrel is not dependent on the type of gun or how it was fired by a gun (I'm ignoring spin as it's not relevant to this arguement).


Originally posted by Arcturus62
The people who posts the argument "it's simple physics, same speed=same distance" are not very astute. Two balls can both leave the barrel at 300FPS, but if one ball is decelerating faster, it will travel less. Deceleration has many factorsI was a professor of physics at UC Berkeley for nearly 8 years, and I will state as a matter of fact that velocity (although a factor) is not the primary function for determining the distance a ball will travel.

Excuse me? Would you like to tell us what are the primary functions for determining how a ball will travel? It is velocity, mass, resistance to motion and angle of elevation. There are other factors but these are by far the most important. You are right to say if one ball is decelerating faster then it will travel less but what you are overlooking is that the rate of deceleration is not linked to the type of gun firing the ball.

You say you were a Physics professor? Well I find that very, very hard to believe. I actually studied a course on ballistics and projectile motion at university and asked my professors about certain things to do with paintball guns and the myths behind them. They would laugh like crazy about what you are implying. Please do show me the maths and state what the primary factors are. I'd like to see it :) all in full detail. I'm sure I could work through it and understand it so please don't pull any punches in your analysis. Please point out the factors that are relevent to the type of gun that fired the ball and why they have an effect.

The square of the velocity is a primary factor in the amount of energy that the projectile has and thus extremely important and pertinent in how far it will travel and it's ability to overcome resistance to motion.


Originally posted by Arcturus62
So how do you tell which gun shoots farther? Empirical evidence. As many will tell you, you have to shoot both to see which one you like. Shoot the AutoMag and then Shoot the Cocker. I personally believe that the cocker shoots farther, but I currently play with the Mag because it's more reliable and consistent. I will sacrifice a feet or two of distnace, if my gun can shoot the object I'm aiming at, and shoots when I tell it to shoot (aka: less ball crunching).

I personally think you are a fake physics professor. I'd love for you to prove me wrong though and post a full workings on projectile motion and paintball firing :)

I will say that there is a difference between maximum attainable range and effective range though. This is different, Effective Range (ER) is dependent on consistency and some guns like the autococker can be better at this. It is not the same as maximum range or what you were referring to though so I will leave that for another debate.


Originally posted by Arcturus62
someone on the field that looks like he can shoot farther, faster, or get better accuracy.

You will get guns that have more accuracy and more effective range, but if we disregard spinning the paintballs you will not get guns that have a greater potential range. Potenatial Range is not Effective Range there is a big difference.

manike

[Wild_Osiris]

I figure that I need to get into this mess. This debate over which is the better gun mags or cockers has been asked a thousand times. Here is my opinion and knowledge. I hope that I am not biased.

Ihave played with cockers before, and they are not only beautiful guns but they are real tourney guns as well. There upgrade path is unmatched by any marker. Their triggers are the most adjustable of any marker out there. In the old days I have heard that cockers were easy to get out of time and not ready out of the box. Apparently today is a different story. I really enjoyed shooting a cocker, for the limited time I was able. They are exceptional guns. Even the maker of mags Tom Kaye will tell u this. He recommends you get both markers. As does Budd Orr maker of the autococker.

I believe that the debate between accuratacy and distance doesnt depend on the stock marker much. I believe it is the consistency over the chrono that gives accuratacy and a nice tight barrel to paint match that give distance and accuratacy.(low pressure has no effect on this only on breaking paint) You see it has been proven that all objects fall at the same speed.(unless wind resistance plays in it, Also it's an equation not a set speed but all objects abide by this equation) So if two objects are going at equal speed, and they fall at the same rate, which one will go farther? The answer is they are equal.(note this is also assuming all outside factors consisent which they aren't. For instance, On maker may shot on more fps, or one paintball might not be as round as the next, or one paintball isnt fitting through the barrel as well, or the barrel's finish isnt as nice as the next one)(paintball weight might also effect it, because a bmw to a mustang both hit the wall at the same speed but since one is heavier it hits with more energy).o yes there is some inconsisenecy in this but in general mags can shot just as well or as far and accurate as cockers.

I am a mag owner by heart and it will always be with me, but I will soon be a cocker owner too. I love there triggers and they are beautiful guns.

By now ur probably asking well what does the mag have. Well the mag does have price, incredible service and support. I Also think it's not fair to put a standard mag against a SFL cocker or even a STO. They're not in the same price range. NOw if you put an Rt in there, it's a bit different. The Rt has superior fire power (bps) and a much faster cycling rate. You may not need this though since you cant out shot most guns. I think you may be able to shoot faster with a Rt mag. The reactive trigger is a wonder, just be careful u most have a good hopper and like any other mechanical gun fully push and release the trigger. An Rt is hard to short-stroke with the right trigger frame just like a cocker.

In conclusion, you will be happy with both guns, They are both exceptional. Your making a good choice no matter what.

[manike]

Originally posted by MagMan5446
You gotta listen to a lil' bit of public enemy.

Don't believe the hype!!

Hey that's my Tag line. Didn't know it came from Public Enemy. I've been using since I first started looking a little more seriously into paintball (about 9 years ago!, I've been playing for over ten :)

Ever since I've been on the net I've signed my posts off with 'Don't Believe the hype!' ;)

manike

[Bartleby]

i must say that nothin you have written, Arcturus62, has any relation to a cocker or a mag, specifically. Sure, there are many factors that determine the distance a ball will travel under various conditions, however, you failed to defend your notion on a cocker shooting farther than a mag. Why do you believe this to be so? So you can explain the laws of physics but you cannot relate it even slightly to the topic at hand. I'm curious to know how it is you can possibly believe the things you do.

[manike]

Just for those of you that are interested, the paintball trajectory calculator can be found at

http://home.surewest.net/hoelkers/dyrgcmn/trajectory.html

Please note that there is no place to state how many elves you have in your set up or what type of gun you are using as it is not relevant to the calculation.

Try it out!

manike

[Arcturus62]

I will post a reply to Manike and all other who question the factors of calculating distance.

The formula (feel free to look it up in your physics book):
distance = intial speed * time + ( 1/2 ) * acceleration * time^2

given: no other extraneous factors (ie: angle of the gun is the same, and no wind).

Distance calculators assume constant acceleration (ie: gravity). But since this is a "projectile" launched with a certain amount of variable force (F=ma), acceleration would not be constant. The balls flying through the air are decellerating faster or slower due to intial resistance (friction, resistance, etc.) from the gun. Each gun, and each shot, will produce a variable amount of force, and since the mass of the paintball is fairly equal, the acceleration of the ball is the major variable.

I will keep this answer short and sweet. Speed is a factor in determining distance, but not the SOLE factor. And this is gun independent. If you're firing 2 automags at the same FPS, it also may shoot different distances, however, this is more unlikely since most of the factors that would affect acceleration would most likely be equal. But nevertheless, the formula applies.

If you're going to reply to this post, please do not attack my personal background. I am a physics professor whether you believe me or not. I will try to enlighten those who have not studied physics, but if anyone is soo "gun-ho" about believing that speed is the ONLY factor in determining distance, then please don't bother to reply since no formula (no matter how basic) would convince you otherwise. Let people read and judge for themselves.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Arcturus62
Two balls can both leave the barrel at 300FPS, but if one ball is decelerating faster, it will travel less...

Can you show us a graph or the formula(s) that show that? If the objects have the same mass and the same velocity then do they not also have the same momentum? If at the same point in time they have the same momentum and the same trajectory (assuming neither is spinning/tumbling) and are traveling through the same medium, why wouldn't they follow the same path?

How does "deceleration" effect momentum? Or does it effect something else that causes the paintball to follow a different path?

[Army]

Oh brother! Now we have identical objects, with identical weights, with identical accelerations, going at identical speeds, against identical air resistance, slowing at different rates due to being launched from different guns! Now that's funny!

Sir, if one object has reached 300fps at it's peak of acceleration, and another has decelerated to 300fps, both measured at an identical point (which for this argumnet is OUTSIDE the gun, thus OUTSIDE any further influential variables), both objects, balls, are now subject to the same air resistance and gravitational pull. This can only mean that both balls are NOW decelerating, from the SAME MEASURE POINT, from 300fps.

Nothing else is a factor after the balls have left the barrel. There is no longer ANY influence from the firing pressures, or barrel friction, as both balls are now OUTSIDE the gun.

I'm no Physics prof., I'm just a guy who has observed ballistics for the last 13 years. I deal with firearms, artillery, and explosives and I do feel quite qualified to point out that you are wrong. No matter what the flying object is, it is still subject to reality, not theoretical physics.

[hitech]

http://home.surewest.net/hoelkers/d...trajectory.html

Kinda hard to argue with, isn't it? Very enlightening. Thanks for that link.

[Miscue]

Yep. The ball can no longer accelerate once their is no force behind it. Once it leaves the barrel... there is nothing propeling it, universal situation for all guns/equipment. Once it hits 300 fps, and the only thing acting against it is air friction (which treats everything equally)... it makes no difference how it got to 300 fps... the ball was previously accelerating, decelerating, at constant velocity, shot with a rail gun... makes no difference.

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

Here you guys wanna do a test. Go ahead and waist your money on it if you dont believe all guns have same accuracy (range) if you do this...

Items needed:

Autococker (stock)
Mag (stock)

Freak kit on bolth.

Remove reg on cocker and run it with an asa adapter same setup with mag.

Get a gun mount like Tom has so you know there set up at perfect angles.

Make sure you match freak with paint perfectly.

Throw on a maxflow system for them bolth which is perfect cause it really concistent...and set the output 800 for both.

Chrono it in at 280 fps.

And all the paint loaded in the loader must be checked so you know none of them are eather defected...odd shaped..or cracked.

Now i guarantee you that there will be NO NOTICABLE DIFFERENCE IN THERE RANGE PERIOD CAUSE THIS SOMES UP TO PERFECT CALCULATIONS.

Now you can do that little prodject up there....or you can just trust laws of physics. Cause there "almost" impossible to break.

But make sure there are no elves around (autococker) and no gnomes around (automag) ;)

[DarkRipper]

The Mag fanboy goggles, they do NOTHING!!!

:D

C'mon guys... you are harshing the cocker as bad as the guys that harshed the mags.

So, who's right?

I've shot em all... mags, emags, RTs, mags with hyperframes and retrovalves, cockers of all flavors, angels, BM2ks, Imps, shockers (new and old), matrices, pumps, stock class markers, etc.

:)

What do I shoot now, after 9 years of playing paintball and after owning a ton of high end markers?

A cocker.

:)
Simple, really. I don't feel the gun offers better range or accuracy as it is... but I am a better shot with one. How is that? I dunno, and I'm sure there are physics whizzes that can explain to me exactly how I should be able to play just as well with an emag... but I don't.

It's a fact, for me anyway... I am a better player with a cocker. I don't care about the back block.. I find it annoying. I find the maintenance if your cocker goes down to be extremely annoying.. the angel and the mag have them over the barrel on that.

But I don't play as well with an angel or a mag.

Go figure.

:)
DR

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||
~snip~

Remove reg on cocker and run it with an asa adapter same setup with mag.

~snip~

Throw on a maxflow system for them bolth which is perfect cause it really concistent...and set the output 800 for both.



How exactly is taking the inline reg off a cocker going to make it like a mag? Then the cocker has NO reg, and the mag still has one. The LPR on the front regulates the COCKING pressure, not the firing pressure.

Next... A maxflow on a cocker without an inline reg is fine... on a mag? I don't recommend it. It's overkill. You don't need to double reg a maxflow. Even SP says that. It can cause flow issues... I've seen it happen on mags as well as other guns.

:) MHO

DR

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

umm...you always double reg mags...its tripple regulating it that kills it stupid. Umm lets see...one reg from the AIR valve...and 1 reg from the maxflow. Wow your dumb

Well lets see...taking off the reg will make it so there are no other things regulating it making it as concistent as possible. but if you wanna make it as close as you can you can throw on a gen x which is pretty similiar to a mag internal reg.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||
umm...you always double reg mags...its tripple regulating it that kills it stupid. Umm lets see...one reg from the AIR valve...and 1 reg from the maxflow. Wow your dumb

You're really amazing. The best you can do is call names?

The Maxflow is the equivalent to two regs, not one. That's how you can run it without an inline on the cocker.

Now, 1 plus 2 = what?

Yes. I'M the one that's stupid.

:rolleyes:
DR

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||


Well lets see...taking off the reg will make it so there are no other things regulating it making it as concistent as possible. but if you wanna make it as close as you can you can throw on a gen x which is pretty similiar to a mag internal reg.

You edited your post and added this, so it wasn't in my first post.

I'm not really understanding what reg you are "taking off" the mag, considering the mag IS a reg... are you running an inline on your mag as well as the AIR? Then, if you aren't running C02, you are triple regulating, which in your own terms is "dumb".

Please. Don't attempt to continue flaming... it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

DR

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

How exactly is taking the inline reg off a cocker going to make it like a mag? Then the cocker has NO reg, and the mag still has one. The LPR on the front regulates the COCKING pressure, not the firing pressure.

Next... A maxflow on a cocker without an inline reg is fine... on a mag? I don't recommend it. It's overkill. You don't need to double reg a maxflow. Even SP says that. It can cause flow issues... I've seen it happen on mags as well as other guns.


BTW you dont make any sense ... now according to you it seems that "the cocker has NO reg, and the mag still has one. The LPR on the front regulates the COCKING pressure, not the firing pressure" therefore if that statement is true then how would this be " maxflow on a cocker without an inline reg is fine" your really make no sense.

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

wtf are you smoking you cant take any reg off of the mag my friend where did you get that idea.

"Remove reg on cocker and run it with an asa adapter same setup with mag"

remove cocker and run it with an asa adapter... same setup with the mag meaning RUNNING IT WITH AN ASA INSTEAD OF WITH A GAS THRU cause you get more flow.

now you understand..

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

and with this Well lets see...taking off the reg will make it so there are no other things regulating it making it as concistent as possible. but if you wanna make it as close as you can you can throw on a gen x which is pretty similiar to a mag internal reg.

im talking about the cocker answering your second statement...made in your first post ;)

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||

BTW you dont make any sense ... now according to you it seems that "the cocker has NO reg, and the mag still has one. The LPR on the front regulates the COCKING pressure, not the firing pressure" therefore if that statement is true then how would this be " maxflow on a cocker without an inline reg is fine" your really make no sense.

LMAO

What the hell are you talking about? Do you know how a cocker works?

The LPR on a cocker is the little lump on the front left side (under the barrel), under the little rod that cocks the gun. It controls the cocking pressure. Normally on a cocker, there is also an INLINE reg (we'll call it front grip for you), which could be (for instance) a Genx reg.

The mag IS a reg... what do you think the AIR valve is? :)

So, with the maxflow on the mag, you are essentially triple regulating...

With the cocker, no inline reg, and a maxflow, you should see better flow which makes your example a bad one.

Give up.

DR

[pntbawlrmz]

Again as some people have said, this is a mag forum and most answers are going to be biased. Go to a cocker forum or on pbnation somewhere and ask the same question. First they will tell you to use your brains and do a search and then you will start to get more even based replies cause its not a specific gun forum but just a paintball forum. I you like to tinker get a cocker, it'll be fun if you're the kinda person who played with legos when you were a kid. They are great to build up and customize, but you have to know what you are doin. The first day you have it you can't just go and take it all apart and expect it to work fine once you put it back togother unless you know what you are doing.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||
wtf are you smoking you cant take any reg off of the mag my friend where did you get that idea.

"Remove reg on cocker and run it with an asa adapter same setup with mag"

remove cocker and run it with an asa adapter... same setup with the mag meaning RUNNING IT WITH AN ASA INSTEAD OF WITH A GAS THRU cause you get more flow.

now you understand..

The Mag IS a reg, dude. You CAN'T take the reg "off" the mag. But, that is what you are saying... "take the reg off the cocker". If you don't "take the reg off the mag" then it's not the same setup, is it?

What you REALLY should say, is take an armageddon (or similar) and attach it to both the cocker and the mag. Put a Air America black ice on the cocker as a reg, as it's close to the AIR valve in design.

NOW we have something that's close in performance.

Also, how does an ASA get more flow than a gas through? :D

DR

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

never new the maxflow has 2 regs...concidering my friend runs one on his RT pro and it runs great. No drop off or problems... well since its 2 regs and the AIR valve has a built in reg making it 3 why does he have no problems. I think its a great tank...like flatline better.(yes i know this you dont need to say that concidering i mentioned it already)

But if you wanna complain about the maxflow cause some users may not be as lucky as my friend with his RT then here.

Change the air system used to a hyperflow or dynaflow cause i have one of them on my back up mags and its great. And as the secondary reg run a gen x cause there really close in internals to the mag built in reg (AIR VAVLE).

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||
never new the maxflow has 2 regs...concidering my friend runs one on his RT pro and it runs great. No drop off or problems there since its 2 regs and the AIR valve has a built in reg making it 3 (yes i know this you dont need to say that concidering i mentioned it already)

It's the equivalent to two regs, not actually two regs. It's pressure regulating on both sides, or somesuch. Doc Nickel could explain it better.

:)

I'm glad that's all cleared up... it was pretty funny.

DR

[HoppysMag]

All in thought heres some pro's


Mag=
Super High Rate of fire.
Super reliable.
Looks cool.
Makes that cool sound!( yes im a recballer)

Cocker=
the cool rear cocking thingy.
Some what cool sound
Forward elf storage!

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

DarkRipper

You still are not getting what i was saying before.

Lets do this in baby steps now.....

TAKE OFF THE secondary REG ON THE COCKER, and run it through an asa adapter directly from the tank to the asa.

Now put on an asa adapter on the mag and run it like this instead of a gas thru. (got it ;) )

and also the reason why you get more flow from running it directly from gun to tank is because theres less time waiting (not that much long but theres a difference) for the air to fill in the gas thru ..then go in the little hole...then to the asa...then to the mag valve or just on a cocker without going to the mag valve (obviously) with an asa adapter its from the tank to the asa. Faster meaning better flow.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||
DarkRipper

You still are not getting what i was saying before.

Lets do this in baby steps now.....

TAKE OFF THE secondary REG ON THE COCKER, and run it through an asa adapter directly from the tank to the asa.

Now put on an asa adapter on the mag and run it like this instead of a gas thru. (got it ;) )

and also the reason why you get more flow from running it directly from gun to tank is because theres less time waiting (not that much long but theres a difference) for the air to fill in the gas thru ..then go in the little hole...then to the asa...then to the mag valve or just on a cocker without going to the mag valve (obviously) with an asa adapter its from the tank to the asa. Faster meaning better flow.

Alright, apparently you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you take off the reg on the cocker... IT HAS NO REG. It will then run single reg off the tank.

If you take the reg off the mag, it will not work.

As for the asa/gasthrough, give me a break. Most gasthroughs are just tubes. The amount of air in it as opposed to the longer length of hose you'll need to reach the ASA is negligible for this experiment.

What exactly was it you were trying to take me through with baby steps again?

I already stated how your experiment would have to be to be accurate:

cocker with black ice

mag

both with a single regged tank, like an armageddon.

Your example of the maxflow is poor, as it won't be as good on the mag as it will be on the cocker without it's inline reg. This is due to triple regulation on the mag at this point.

Again.

DR

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

sigh...

My experiment would work fine...

Gen-X + Hyperflow (cocker)

Hyperflow + ASA Adpater (mag)

and your still wrong about the gas thru my friend...

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by RaV3n_Pa1ntba||
sigh...

My experiment would work fine...

Gen-X + Hyperflow (cocker)

Hyperflow + ASA Adpater (mag)

and your still wrong about the gas thru my friend...

Now that you've changed it to a hyperflow, yes it would work. I believe I said that it would if you used a reg on the cocker and a single regged tank.

Wrong about the gas through? OK. Let's think about this. The hose has to reach the ASA, right? The hose can be shorter going to the gas-through, which ISN'T hollow like an expansion chamber, but rather is an aluminum sleeve if you will around a narrow tube that the air flows through.

So, it's negligible as to whether you use an ASA and longer hose, or a gas-through with a shorter hose.

:)
DR

[manike]

Originally posted by Army
Oh brother! Now we have identical objects, with identical weights, with identical accelerations, going at identical speeds, against identical air resistance, slowing at different rates due to being launched from different guns! Now that's funny!

I was going to post a reply to arcturus but Army summed it up just perfectly. There is no way better to put it than that.

manike

[Bartleby]

i'm justing sitting, waiting for him to make an attempt at a feasable response...no? ok then......