Star Wars Episode 1-3, A LOST HOPE

[Steelrat]

Well, I just saw Ep 3, and I know I will catch hell for this, but it was

TERRIBLE

TERRIBLE

TERRIBLE

It was horrible on so many levels I can't even explain it. Why Lucas had to try to shoehorn every character from the last 3 into the first three I will never figure out. C3PO knew R2D2? Chewbacca knew Yoda? Gimme a break!

And the worst, I mean worst part, has to do with the suspension of reality. I'm not talking about spaceships and droids, that I can deal with. What I cannot deal with is people behaving in ways that make no sense. So Anakin has a bad dream about Padme, and next thing you know thats the "justification" for whacking Mace Windu. Then, I guess in the spirit of "In for a penny, in for a pound" he whacks a bunch of little jedi kids. That kind of behavior is so far from realistic that the light from realistic will take a thousand years to reach it. And thats just one small example of totally irrational behavior a movie thats full of it. I just can't deal with that.

I now wish Lucas had NEVER made episodes 1-3. Things were so much better when everything was left to the imagination, much as with the original Matrix. No amount of cool fights or special effects can overcome how terribly done these movies have been. I only hope to god that I can banish them from my mind and go back to enjoying the original three.

[Warewolf50]

u realize he wrote them all at the same time and im guessing all the characters that he shoehorned in there were written in it originially so he wasnt forcing them in, he was jsut following what the original story called for.

Bout the dream thing the reason it freaked anniken out so much is cause he had the same dreams bout his mom dieing and that came true. Also didnt yoda pretty much tell him that he can tell the future but he cant let it affect him or what he does.

And i agree wiht you that he went bad very quickly, he was regretting what he did to windu then automatically started worshiping the emperor, then to the killing of the lil kids. I did find that scene kinda funny though (master anniken what are we goona do there are to many of them) anniken pull sout light saber and the scen changes.

Ryan

[Steelrat]

u realize he wrote them all at the same time and im guessing all the characters that he shoehorned in there were written in it originially so he wasnt forcing them in, he was jsut following what the original story called for.

Bout the dream thing the reason it freaked anniken out so much is cause he had the same dreams bout his mom dieing and that came true. Also didnt yoda pretty much tell him that he can tell the future but he cant let it affect him or what he does.

And i agree wiht you that he went bad very quickly, he was regretting what he did to windu then automatically started worshiping the emperor, then to the killing of the lil kids. I did find that scene kinda funny though (master anniken what are we goona do there are to many of them) anniken pull sout light saber and the scen changes.

Ryan

Well, writing them at the same time as the original three (if thats true) doesnt make it any less lame. It was all just too tidy. I mean, just look at it. Darth Vader built C3P0, who was a buddy of R2D2 before the first movie? And Obi Wan Kenobi knew R2D2? So, where was the recognition in Ep 4 when Obi Wan deals with R2 when extracting the Death Star info?

I know they went to great lengths to make it seem as if Anakin truly believed the dream would come true, but I still don't find his behavior even remotely plausible. Anakin has been a jedi for what, 15 years, and instead of going to the council or something for help he goes to his buddy the Chancellor. And all the chancellor has to do is relate some lame anecdote about "The Tragedy of Lord Somethingorother" and Anakin becomes some sort of whiney flunky to him.

There were some neat scenes. I enjoyed the General Grievous character, though he went down like a little Biatch. I also enjoy watching the Jedi do their thing, and the battle scenes are always cool, though since when do turbo-laser cannons eject casings?

I don't even know if I'll buy the DVD at this point. I found the killing of the younglings very disturbing, and I think Lucas stuck stuff like that in the movie in an attempt to make it "dark," even though just sticking in disturbing scenes alone isnt enough to make it a dark movie.

At least he minimized Jar Jar's screentime.

[1stdeadeye]

I know they went to great lengths to make it seem as if Anakin truly believed the dream would come true, but I still don't find his behavior even remotely plausible. Anakin has been a jedi for what, 15 years, and instead of going to the council or something for help he goes to his buddy the Chancellor. And all the chancellor has to do is relate some lame anecdote about "The Tragedy of Lord Somethingorother" and Anakin becomes some sort of whiney flunky to him.


Annakin went to Yoda about his dream. He was not satisfied with Yoda's answer of "Let them go." Palpatine stepped in with the answer Annikan wanted to hear. That simple.

[Steelrat]

Simple enough to make him kill the men, women, and children he has spent the past 15-20 years with? To me, it just seemed ludicrous. I didn't buy it for a second. All Palpatine had to say was "I can help you" and Anakin is slicing and dicing kids?

And I really needed the good, sensical plot to overcome the terrible dialogue and so-so acting.

The only really "good" moments for me is when the Jedi were betrayed on the various planets (I thought that was well done) and the final scenes. However, I think the final scenes appealed to me only because they were directly tied in with 4-6.

[Steelrat]

Try this one on for size. Anakin doesnt really tell Yoda the whole story about his dreams because he is afraid that he will get kicked out of the order. Yet he's willing to KILL everyone in the Jedi order? Huh :confused:

I've been waiting years for this movie, and all I got was a turd. That $20,000 fan movie was just about as enjoyable as this, and at least they have an excuse.

BTW, at least 2 people in the theater I was at fell asleep during the movie.

[WingMan13]

Dude you have to remember this is Sci-Fi/ fantasy. Our perception of life here on Earth does not fully translate into Lucas's galaxy. When the title scrolls, your suppossed to tranfer yourself to a galaxy far far away. If you dont do that then your just not gonna have fun. You think Anakin went down the dark path too quickly? If you think in terms of Lucas's galaxy, you need to remember the dark side consumes you and dominates your destiny. There was nothing quick about it because the dark side was always tempting Anakin since he was young. Anakin was a murderer even before he killed those in the Jedi temple. Now lets think about this in a Earthling perception. Lucas needs to make a movie and speed it along for the audience quickly. Do we honestly want to sit down and watch multitudes of needless episodes or five hour movies just to get certain points across? Sit back and enjoy!

[matt-o]

i completely agree with steelrat. george lucas killed star wars with the EP1-3, the acting was horrible, the plots were corny and unfounded, and he tried to fit too much into them. the diologue was absolutely horrible and only served to link battle scenes together. the only good actors in all of these movies were ewan mcgregor and the dude who played darth maul. also i have to say that i hate the complete overuse of computer animation. NOT EVERY SCENE NEEDS TO BE MADE ON A GREEN SCREEN, the old wire suspended models were much more beleivable (as corny as they looked). and computer animation allowed them to put things yoda's fight scenes in, and even though those were entertaining they detracted from the movie in the end.

[Steelrat]

Thanks Matt.

To Wingman, I already said that I have no problem with suspending disbelief for sci-fi. I just expect the behavior to be plausible. Giving Lucas a free pass because the dark side of the force can cause irrational behavior is making it too easy on him. A movie doesnt have to drag to be plausible. In fact, I get the feeling that Lucas felt the need to explain EVERYTHING.

And even if this were somehow unrelated to the first three movies, I still would not have enjoyed it too much. Underneath the special effects and the hype, it was a subpar script with mediocre acting.

Again, this is my own opinion. Its just sad when I enjoyed The Chronicles of Riddick at least 4 times as much as this movie.

[tony3]

Still haven't seen the 3rd, hoping to get out tonight to see it. I can say though, I enjoyed 1 and 2 plenty. They both were entertaining and wanted made you want to be in the movie.

[Blennidae]

While I don't dislike it as much as Steelrat does, he does raise valid points.

I was hoping for a reason I could "relate" to that made Anakin turn. Something I could accept. The whole "power of life and death" just didn't do it for me. When Luke decides to fight Vader in the end of Jedi, I could understand the reasoning. I was hoping for something more like that. Something I could see as a plausible cause.

Having Anakin hack the younglings only served to show Obi-Wan he had turned. I think it would have been more believeble if they just had Anakin give access to the Jedi temple and then had boatloads of clone troops do the killing. I love my wife, but I'm not sure a dream of her dying is going to give me cause to go psycho on a bunch of little kids I have known for years.

I think they should have kept R2 with the same mobility he had in the previous movies. I was ok with the little rocket things letting him fly a bit, but what they let him do in this one was just wrong. Do you remember how much trouble he had getting out of the X-ing on Dagobah? They have him leaping out of ships now, its just not believeable.

Too many digital sets. They just aren't as realistic as a regular set. All the shiny columns just didn't look as good as the white hallways of the blockade runner.

But with all the faults, I'll probably see it again in theaters once the crowds die down, and I'll buy the DVD. I think for me, if there had been a better reason for Anakin to turn, I would have enjoyed the movie more.

[bleachit]

if Annikan hadnt lost his mother and was emotionally stable.. then the way he "turned" wouldnt have been plausible. Annikan was very immature and clearly feared the loss of Padme more than anything.. especially after what happened to his mother..

throw in the way he was manipulated by Palpatine and his distrust for the Jedi Council... and it begins to make sense. Annikan was unstable emotionally and was prone to irrational behavior.

as for the killing of the Jedi in the temple.. he really didnt have much of a choice after he helped kill Mace.... and he allowed himself to believe that the jedi had turned on the republic.

[Steelrat]

R2 was one of those "cutesy" things that annoyed me. Included in that is:

-Chewbacca knowing Yoda. I mean "Miss you much I will, Chewbacca?" Lame.
-R2D2 and C3P0 knew each other, then for whatever reason Bail Organa orders C3P0 mind wiped. So why doesnt he order R2D2 wiped, and why doesnt R2D2 recognize C3P0 in ANH?
-Capt. Antilles? Was that Wedge or his dad? lame.
-Darth vader built C3P0???? That alone should get Lucas a death by stoning.
-Yoda's ninja fighting moves


Things done well
-Whole Jedi thing was done well
-Development of Obi Wan character
-Explanation for the creation of the Empire

I know my reaction seems harsh, but after 20+ years and hundreds of millions of dollars, there is no excuse for doing this poorly. Peter Jackson took a creative but poorly written book series and turned them into magnificent movies.

[oldsoldier]

u realize he wrote them all at the same time and im guessing all the characters that he shoehorned in there were written in it originially so he wasnt forcing them in, he was jsut following what the original story called for.

Bout the dream thing the reason it freaked anniken out so much is cause he had the same dreams bout his mom dieing and that came true. Also didnt yoda pretty much tell him that he can tell the future but he cant let it affect him or what he does.

And i agree wiht you that he went bad very quickly, he was regretting what he did to windu then automatically started worshiping the emperor, then to the killing of the lil kids. I did find that scene kinda funny though (master anniken what are we goona do there are to many of them) anniken pull sout light saber and the scen changes.

Ryan


Hey, he didnt write them all at the same time. episode iv was called that, I belive, because it was the 4th time he tried to sell it to a major studio. It was a common misconception about it. I think he started writing the 1st 3 after Jedi. The first star wars was a total sleeper...it wasnt expected to gross anything. Hollywood, and Luca, were VERY surprised by its turnout.

[Blennidae]

-R2D2 and C3P0 knew each other, then for whatever reason Bail Organa orders C3P0 mind wiped. So why doesnt he order R2D2 wiped, and why doesnt R2D2 recognize C3P0 in ANH?
-Capt. Antilles? Was that Wedge or his dad? lame.


I am willing to go with the idea that a protocol droid with language capabilities is a greater chance to blurt out information he shouldn't than an astromech droid that only speaks machine language is. That was my take on it. R2 and 3PO seemed to already have somewhat of a relationship in ANH. I'm going with R2 not filling in 3PO with all the details in their past.

Capt. Antillies being the droids master was established in ANH, the name is just common I guess. Is Wedge ever reffered to by his full name in any of the movies? I can't remember.

[Steelrat]

I am willing to go with the idea that a protocol droid with language capabilities is a greater chance to blurt out information he shouldn't than an astromech droid that only speaks machine language is. That was my take on it. R2 and 3PO seemed to already have somewhat of a relationship in ANH. I'm going with R2 not filling in 3PO with all the details in their past.

Capt. Antillies being the droids master was established in ANH, the name is just common I guess. Is Wedge ever reffered to by his full name in any of the movies? I can't remember.

Okay, you got me on the Antilles part, I didn't remember that. The whole C3P0/R2D2 thing I still believe was a crutch. I fully believe that Lucas made a point of trying to intigrate characters from the original movie into EP 1-3 as an attempt to generate fan interest. It would have made much more sense to just keep them out of it.

[gamarada717]

"Look at me, I know everything about Star Wars and want to sound intellegent. So I'm going to put down the new movies and sound classic"

You're telling me that these movies were actually bad? As in, this movie is worse than a chick flick?

Just because you had the story rewritten in your head a different way doesn't mean that the movie sucks. It's not your damn story. Money can not buy a great story.

Personally, I loved the entire series. Episode 2 lacked some acting skills, but was made up for with cool effects. I hate you Star Wars fanboys that believe everything should come out the way it does.

[quik]

It was entertaining, which was what it was supposed to do. If it didnt entertain you, go post on a message boa...


oh wait.

[Steelrat]

"Look at me, I know everything about Star Wars and want to sound intellegent. So I'm going to put down the new movies and sound classic"

You're telling me that these movies were actually bad? As in, this movie is worse than a chick flick?

Just because you had the story rewritten in your head a different way doesn't mean that the movie sucks. It's not your damn story. Money can not buy a great story.

Personally, I loved the entire series. Episode 2 lacked some acting skills, but was made up for with cool effects. I hate you Star Wars fanboys that believe everything should come out the way it does.

When did I say I knew everything? I guess I offended you by not liking it. Should I be sorry or something?

Were they absolutely horrible? No. Were they extremely disappointing? Yes. Like I said, I enjoyed the Chronicles of Riddick more than any of there, and that movie never tried to be anything other than a mindless scifi action romp.

Frankly, your attitude sucks. Why the hell should you hate me for disliking the movie? Another idiot who can't bother to come up with a decent post.

[Eatem Alive]

Well, I just saw Ep 3, and I know I will catch hell for this, but it wasTERRIBLE


*GASP!* your lucky you aint in cali more, partner. :shooting:

i haven't seen it yet but i'm going tomorrow. i don't care how it turns out...i just love everything star wars.

[Steelrat]

*GASP!* your lucky you aint in cali more, partner. :shooting:

i haven't seen it yet but i'm going tomorrow. i don't care how it turns out...i just love everything star wars.

You're just the kind of sucke..ah, customer that Lucas was counting on ;)

me/runs and hides

In all seriousness, I love Star Wars too, but I don't think that gives Lucas a free pass. Rather, it makes me expect more from him.

[Blennidae]

"Look at me, I know everything about Star Wars and want to sound intellegent. So I'm going to put down the new movies and sound classic"

You're telling me that these movies were actually bad? As in, this movie is worse than a chick flick?

Just because you had the story rewritten in your head a different way doesn't mean that the movie sucks. It's not your damn story. Money can not buy a great story.

Personally, I loved the entire series. Episode 2 lacked some acting skills, but was made up for with cool effects. I hate you Star Wars fanboys that believe everything should come out the way it does.

There is more than one generation of fan out there. So much of the flak Lucas has received is from the older generation. The ones who grew up watching and waiting for the original trilogy to play out.

The older "fanboys" feel somewhat let down in the direction Lucas has taken the story. I don't think any fan wants a "cute" Star Wars movie. Ewoks were hated in '83 just like Jar Jar is now.

For the younger generation who never saw the original cuts on the big screen, I don't think they realize the impact Star Wars had on the previous generation. The story was more important than how cool things looked. We were able to look past a puppet and see a character.

When you see all those same characters later, and they all seem to have some previous connection, it makes it hard to believe.

What was Chewbacca's purpose in Ep. 3? Did it serve to tell us the relationship he has with Han Solo? He was there just to say Chewbacca was in the movie. I would have been happier just to see a wookie in the background that looked like Chewbacca. It would have been a tip of the hat to the fans, without beating us over the head with it. Does that make any sense?

[Steelrat]

There is more than one generation of fan out there. So much of the flak Lucas has received is from the older generation. The ones who grew up watching and waiting for the original trilogy to play out.

The older "fanboys" feel somewhat let down in the direction Lucas has taken the story. I don't think any fan wants a "cute" Star Wars movie. Ewoks were hated in '83 just like Jar Jar is now.

For the younger generation who never saw the original cuts on the big screen, I don't think they realize the impact Star Wars had on the previous generation. The story was more important than how cool things looked. We were able to look past a puppet and see a character.

When you see all those same characters later, and they all seem to have some previous connection, it makes it hard to believe.

What was Chewbacca's purpose in Ep. 3? Did it serve to tell us the relationship he has with Han Solo? He was there just to say Chewbacca was in the movie. I would have been happier just to see a wookie in the background that looked like Chewbacca. It would have been a tip of the hat to the fans, without beating us over the head with it. Does that make any sense?

One of these days I will learn to make a calm, rational, intelligent response like this.

Maybe ;)

[hAppy]

I have heard both goods and bads, mostly bads though. Seems as if the first 3 episodes are way more futuristic then the last 3, how ironic :rofl:

And it sounds here as if George Lucas had to cram the rest of the story in one 3 hour episode. I don't plan on watching it in the theatres, for SW tends to drag. I will just wait until someone can do the people a favor by uploading it to the beautiful internet.

[gimp]

It's already there!!! yay!!!

[gamarada717]

When did I say I knew everything? I guess I offended you by not liking it. Should I be sorry or something?

Were they absolutely horrible? No. Were they extremely disappointing? Yes. Like I said, I enjoyed the Chronicles of Riddick more than any of there, and that movie never tried to be anything other than a mindless scifi action romp.

Frankly, your attitude sucks. Why the hell should you hate me for disliking the movie? Another idiot who can't bother to come up with a decent post.

For some reason, I can pull the fact that you said they were extremely horrible by your use of increasingly large font with the word "Terrible". ;)

"Another idiot who can't bother to come up with a decent post...."

I hear that every time I criticize someone. Ironic how that works, hand in hand...You acuse me of not being able to accept the fact that you didn't like the movie, but YOU can't accept the fact that I don't like your opinion of the movie.

And quite obviously, you have to have been a member of the forums for longer than 2 months to be intelligent.

Why would you post your thoughts about the movie unless you wanted other people to talk about it?

Your entire post contradicts itself Steelrat. Blennidae, I salute you for a good comeback, and I see your reasoning. However, including things like Chewbacca was not intended for people who have been with the series their whole life. It was intended for the people who have never seen the movies before I believe...if you were to watch the movies from 1 to 6, and not know how anything was going to happen, it might be kind of confusing.

[Eatem Alive]

You're just the kind of sucke..ah, customer that Lucas was counting on ;)

me/runs and hides

In all seriousness, I love Star Wars too, but I don't think that gives Lucas a free pass. Rather, it makes me expect more from him.
you are exactly right. i am a HUGE sucker for star wars. they are good movies...search your feelings ryan, you know it to be true. ;)

[MicroMiniMe]

As part of the first generation base of fans you have to realize things.
Before Return of the Jedi came out we took bets if Vader REALLY was Luke's father.
We saw the movies in theaters 10+ times for the most part.
Uh, yeah, the Slave Leia thing. We are sorry. :confused:

But Lucas had help with the script writing on the first series IIRC. THe script had some wit and geeky jokes. The dialogue was pretty simple and easy to follow for kids and such, but the wit and zingers made them classic. "Get this walking carpet out of my way!" "And I thought they smelled bad on the outside."

Now Lucas has a huge head/ego and did everything himself. The script is still for kids (well SITH maybe not entirely) but lacks the wit and zingers. Its just another action sci fi movie is all. We had expectations of greatness and he didn't get on par with before.

[Duzzy]

You acuse me of not being able to accept the fact that you didn't like the movie, but YOU can't accept the fact that I don't like your opinion of the movie.

I viewed the very first line in your post as an indirect attack, and I think that is what he was commenting on not your opinion of his opinion. And I think in your first post you came across as an :cuss: whether you meant to or not.

Why would you post your thoughts about the movie unless you wanted other people to talk about it?

"Look at me, I know everything about Star Wars and want to sound intellegent. So I'm going to put down the new movies and sound classic"

This is a comment on his opinion of the movie? Sounds like mockery and insult to me.

Your entire post contradicts itself Steelrat.

Your first post wasn't that hot either ;)

Blennidae, I salute you for a good comeback, and I see your reasoning. However, including things like Chewbacca was not intended for people who have been with the series their whole life. It was intended for the people who have never seen the movies before I believe...if you were to watch the movies from 1 to 6, and not know how anything was going to happen, it might be kind of confusing.

Don't know so I won't comment.


Let's all play nice shall we. :rolleyes:

I have yet to see Episode III and I probably won't unless someone I know buys the DVD or someone I know goes to see it and I tag along.

To be honest the first two were disappointing. I thought the character of Anakin in Episode II was horrible. I didn't feel sorry for him, he came across as a whiny kid who wasn't getting everything he wanted. I wanted him to die so I wouldn't have to hear it any more.

The dialogue hasn't been that great in my own humble opinion. If you think it was great then I am glad you enjoyed it, but I didn't.

I think the biggest thing that hurt the first two (Other than parts I didn't consider very cool and interesting like Anakin being conceived by Micro-Chlorine stuff. Can anyone say Jesus wannabe?) was the lack of real choices. A good movie keeps you guessing, you are never quite sure what the person will do and frankly I didn't feel that in Episodes I & II. I didn't think the relationships between the characters were very solid either.

That is my totally off topic commentary so please enjoy it.

[gamarada717]

Duzzy, you have to admit that lots of people who watch Star Wars always have the attitude of, "The older ones were better, he ruined the new ones and they're utterly horrible".

Which, in my opinion, he clearly didn't. Could they have been better? Sure. Were they bad? No, not at all. I think anybody who says any Star Wars movie is bad doesn't know what he's talking about...either that, or they're stupid. I would say I would like for a 7,8, and 9 to come out, but I'll most likely be barraged with flames on how he would, "Mess them up".

[Steelrat]

For some reason, I can pull the fact that you said they were extremely horrible by your use of increasingly large font with the word "Terrible". ;)

"Another idiot who can't bother to come up with a decent post...."

I hear that every time I criticize someone. Ironic how that works, hand in hand...You acuse me of not being able to accept the fact that you didn't like the movie, but YOU can't accept the fact that I don't like your opinion of the movie.

And quite obviously, you have to have been a member of the forums for longer than 2 months to be intelligent.

Why would you post your thoughts about the movie unless you wanted other people to talk about it?

Your entire post contradicts itself Steelrat. Blennidae, I salute you for a good comeback, and I see your reasoning. However, including things like Chewbacca was not intended for people who have been with the series their whole life. It was intended for the people who have never seen the movies before I believe...if you were to watch the movies from 1 to 6, and not know how anything was going to happen, it might be kind of confusing.

You insult me and criticize me as being another fanboy, and that wasnt a personal attack? :rolleyes:

I thought it was terrible. If it had been absolutely horrible, I would have walked out.

Taken on their own, I feel Ep 1-3 were mediocre, at best. Taken as part of the series as a whole, they were very disappointing. I want to talk about it to get other viewpoints. Instead some people label me as a "fanboy" who does nothing but trash the new movies.

Did I see the original movies when they were released? Yes. Was there something almost magical about them? Yes, despite the unfortunate Ewok fiasco in Ep 6. Did the new ones generate the same feelings? No. Do some movies still generate those kinds of feelings for me? Yes, plenty. Just not 1-3. And believe me, it makes me very sad that they turned out that way. I feel the same way about Starship Troopers, which was always one of my favorite books, but was butchered when it came out at the movies. Decent eye candy, but not what it should have been.

And thats what I think of Ep 1-3. Decent eye candy, but not even close to what they should/could have been.

[Steelrat]

Duzzy, you have to admit that lots of people who watch Star Wars always have the attitude of, "The older ones were better, he ruined the new ones and they're utterly horrible".

If lots of people who watch Star Wars have that opinion, doesn't that tell you something?

[Steelrat]

you are exactly right. i am a HUGE sucker for star wars. they are good movies...search your feelings ryan, you know it to be true. ;)

Hey, I'm a bigger sucker. I saw it before you, after all ;) And I saw 1 and 2 before opening night at special screenings. Just don't let Lucas use his Jedi mind tricks on you. Remember what Obi-Wan said "The Force
can have a strong influence on the weak-minded." ;)

[Steelrat]

As part of the first generation base of fans you have to realize things.
Before Return of the Jedi came out we took bets if Vader REALLY was Luke's father.
We saw the movies in theaters 10+ times for the most part.
Uh, yeah, the Slave Leia thing. We are sorry. :confused:


Dude, no way am I sorry for that. She was smokin'!

I am, however, very very sorry for the Ewoks.

[Eatem Alive]

Just don't let Lucas use his Jedi mind tricks on you. Remember what Obi-Wan said "The Forcecan have a strong influence on the weak-minded." ;)
they're just movies. i am a big fan but they have no bearing on my life so much as to make me argue in deep discussions with others. i enjoy them for what they are...entertainment.

[adam_61550]

I know my reaction seems harsh, but after 20+ years and hundreds of millions of dollars, there is no excuse for doing this poorly. Peter Jackson took a creative but poorly written book series and turned them into magnificent movies.

Poorly written?!?! Have you read LOTR? As good a quality as the movies are, the books are far, far better.

[Alpha]

No offense at all.. But its a movie. If you get your panties in a knot from just a few subtle issues like that, your not going to have fun seeing it. You can pick apart any movie. Your supposed to laugh and say "Oh that chewbaka... He slays me."

[Steelrat]

they're just movies. i am a big fan but they have no bearing on my life so much as to make me argue in deep discussions with others. i enjoy them for what they are...entertainment.

OH SNAP! Et tu' Eatem?

[Steelrat]

Poorly written?!?! Have you read LOTR? As good a quality as the movies are, the books are far, far better.

Its just my personal opinion, but I think Tolkien was a poor writer. However, he was incredibly imaginative, which is why the books have had such an impact.

[Steelrat]

No offense at all.. But its a movie. If you get your panties in a knot from just a few subtle issues like that, your not going to have fun seeing it. You can pick apart any movie. Your supposed to laugh and say "Oh that chewbaka... He slays me."

The thing is, they put those very issues in there to appeal to hardcore fans. Unfortunately, since Lucas is well into his Howard Hughes phase, he seems to have little appreciation for what the fans were really looking for. It certainly wasn't Jar Jar Binks, an alien short-order cooks case of plumber's butt, or a whiney Darth Vader. Again, this is just MHO.

[Eatem Alive]

ok, i saw it today...liked it...hayden is still a bad actor...darth vader still kicks ***!

[Steelrat]

ok, i saw it today...liked it...hayden is still a bad actor...darth vader still kicks ***!

Seeing Vader, the Emporer, and Grand Moff Tarkin looking at the Death Star being built made me want to watch Ep 4 ;) Darth is always awesome, but the whole "Noooooooooooo" thing actually made a lot of people in my theater laugh. I suspect that isnt the reaction Lucas was looking for.

I think Hayden got better. At least Lucas didn't make him act to whiny in this one.

[Vex]

I think the biggest thing that hurt the first two (Other than parts I didn't consider very cool and interesting like Anakin being conceived by Micro-Chlorine stuff. Can anyone say Jesus wannabe?) was the lack of real choices. A good movie keeps you guessing, you are never quite sure what the person will do and frankly I didn't feel that in Episodes I & II.
Why should there be a plot to keep you guessing--YOU ALREADY KNOW HOW THE STORY TURNS OUT!!

[Vex]

Okay, bear with me--long post ahead: :eek:
Here we go:
1. George Lucas wrote ALL of the Star Wars movies at the SAME TIME during the early '70s. He wrote them not as individual episodes, but as one long "Space Opera". If you think I'm wrong, do your research and prove me wrong! He then broke them down into 9 episodes and then re-re-vamped them to 6. (Sorry folks, but by the time he made ANH, he never intended on filming 9 episodes...) Also, don't you think it makes almost no sense that you're just "thrown" into a movie and don't know anything about the characters? Remember the mention of the Clone Wars in ANH? There were a lot of questions as to what the hell happened before ANH that leads up to all of the fighting, the Empire, who exactly were the Jedi Knights, and why Luke was so special. Also, A New Hope implies that there was hope previously--so what happened?
Lucas had an imposible time finding a studio to release Ep. 4: A New Hope (so named not because it was the fourth time he pitched it, but because it was that chapter in his saga--sorry oldsoldier, but that's a fact. ;) ) Finally, and exec at Fox greenlighted him and he began production. Because Star Wars was such a huge hit (at the time it was the highest grossing movie ever!) that when it came time to film The Empire Strikes Back, Lucas took out a loan from a bank to finance the movie so that he could have total control and the rights to his movies. He bankrolled Jedi himself. He didn't want the studios to have the rights to his projects; his life.
This is all stuff that's on the bonus disc with the Original Trilogy DVDs--come on, people!!

2. C-3P0 and R2-D2 knowing each other: They are together in ANH, right? At the end of Ep. 3, Bail Organa orders Capt. Antilles (not Wedge--wouldn't have been born yet, or else be very young) to wipe 3P0's mind--thus, he doesn't remember anything prior to that (Anakin building him, relationship with Padme, etc.)--there's his excuse for not putting 2 and 2 together with Luke Skywalker's name sounding familiar.
R2-D2 pretty much belonged to Anakin during Episodes 1, 2 and 3, not Obi-Wan. R2 would not know that Anakin became Vader--how would he?
In ANH, Leia programs the droid with a message for Obi-Wan Kenobi, whom she knows about because of her father, whom he "served" in the Clone Wars. So they had to show Bail Organa in Episodes 2 and 3 for continuity. Now, R2 would know that he's supposed to find Obi-Wan, and could possibly know who he is, and give him a message. Obi-Wan on the other hand wouldn't necessarily remember one droid, from 20 years earlier, especially if he didn't interact with it a whole lot. Since it's 20 years later, there's also the possibility that R2's memory has also been wiped--it could happen.

3. Yoda knowing Chewie: What's wrong that? Wookiees live for over 200 years, and Yoda is 800, so where's the problem? It's not like Chewie had a huge role in the movie, or a very defining one for that matter. Yoda mentioned that he had a good relationship with the Wookiees, that's why he went to Kashyyyk. Chewie could have been a high-ranking warrior and that's why he was interacting with Yoda. Yoda went into seclusion, so Chewie could easily have forgotten about him. Plus, Chewie was in the movie for nostagia. It was nice to see an original character that every Star Wars fan should be familiar with. Plus, his involvement in the story is plausible, due to the fact that a campaign of the War was fought on Kashyyyk.

3. Yoda's fighting skills: The dude is an 800 year old Jedi--don't you think that his skills should surpass most? He's never dealt with a Sith Lord until Count Dooku (because they were "extinct" for over a 1,000 years.) And Dooku was not even close to the level of Sidious, so he gave Yoda a good run for his money in a battle of Force knowledge/manipulation. Plus, Yoda's a little old dude, he can only withstand so much...

4. Anakin vs. Mace: Anakin didn't kill Mace--I thought that was pretty obvious. He stopped Windu from killing Palpatine, albeit by slicing off his saber hand, thus allowing Palpatine to take advantage and fry him with Force lightning. Anakin was already confused by Palps. He was already being teased and baited with great power that could save Padme from death. If Palps were to die, then he would lose Padme. After Mace took a dive from umpteen stories up, Anakin couldn't believe what had just happened, so he was even more confused and therefore easily swayable. Palpatine had already earned his trust in the previous movie and they had a close relationship in this one. Anakin was hurt to find out that his mentor was the Sith Lord, but he was intrigued by the possibilty of having the power to save his wife. Palpatine played on Anakin's heart strings until they snapped. Once Anakin pledged himself to the Dark Side, for the purpose to save Padme, Palpatine had complete control over him. Anakin finally gave in to anger and fear.

5. Anakin and the Jedi Temple: The younglings weren't the only ones killed by Anakin. They were just the only ones "shown" so that we would get the feeling of how evil Anakin was to become. This was the most disturbing scene and I felt very sad during that one. Anakin was led to believe that the Jedi were his true enemies and that they needed to be dealt with. So of course he's got to kill the children, so that they don't grow to become Jedi and pose a threat. Besides, killing children is nothing new to him, he already slaughtered the Tusken Raider kids in Episode 2--remember? I actually was kind of hoping that they would show Anakin kill some Jedi--I was a little disappointed.

6. Anakin and Palpatine: Anakin is confused and lost. Palpatine knows this, knows his power potential, knows his loss, and plays on that. Nothing new here. I actually thought that Palpatine's revelation to Anakin about being a Sith Lord was flawlessly smooth, along with Ankakin's transition to the Darkside. Hurried? Maybe; but there was only 2 1/2 hours, so...

Overall. I felt this movie did a lot to tie up a lot of loose ends and open questions. They explain that Qui-Gon figured out how to live on in the Force and taught Yoda, who teaches Obi-Wan. They show how Vader got into the suit. They show that 3-P0's mind was ordered wiped. Bail Organa took Leia to Aleraan. Obi-Wan gave Luke to Beru and Owen on Tatooine.
In my opinion, mine only--I flame no one--I felt this was an excellent movie and an appropriate ending to a great story.

[Duzzy]

And oddly enough there was more to the movies than Anakin becoming Darth Vader...

And yes the fact that I knew the resolution did hurt it, but it didn't have to. Have you ever read a novel that starts out at the end and then leads up to it? Some of them are done very well and it doesn't bother the reader. This did bother me.

There is also a lot of "wasted" time. Why did we need Podracing? Why did we need Naboo? Why couldn't Jar Jar die in the first movie? Preferably in an opening battle scene... Why did Anakin have to come across as a whiney :cuss: who had the mental maturity of a 12 yr old?

I think that if Lucas would have cut out a lot of stuff, and added more "explanation" it would have been even better. I think Episode III would be cool if it were only a few years before Episode IV and the plot was Vader hunting down the Jedi and it causing an inner conflict. And had some snippets of Luke and Leia growing up maybe? And the conflict between the rebellion and the "Empire". Episode II could have been about him having kids and becoming Vader and Episode I could have had him becoming a Jedi.

*Edit*

You posted in between my reply, so just so you know this is to the post where you quoted me. The second post isn't bad.

[Vex]

And oddly enough there was more to the movies than Anakin becoming Darth Vader...

And yes the fact that I knew the resolution did hurt it, but it didn't have to. Have you ever read a novel that starts out at the end and then leads up to it? Some of them are done very well and it doesn't bother the reader. This did bother me.

There is also a lot of "wasted" time. Why did we need Podracing? Why did we need Naboo? Why couldn't Jar Jar die in the first movie? Preferably in an opening battle scene... Why did Anakin have to come across as a whiney :cuss: who had the mental maturity of a 12 yr old?

I think that if Lucas would have cut out a lot of stuff, and added more "explanation" it would have been even better. I think Episode III would be cool if it were only a few years before Episode IV and the plot was Vader hunting down the Jedi and it causing an inner conflict. And had some snippets of Luke and Leia growing up maybe? And the conflict between the rebellion and the "Empire". Episode II could have been about him having kids and becoming Vader and Episode I could have had him becoming a Jedi.
He had to show you the different stages of Anakin's life. He was a nice, polite, and talented little boy in Ep.1 (the podracing was there to show off Anakin's skill, and as eye candy.)
By Ep. 2, you see young adult Anakin, whiney, a bit. But he's whiney because he feels he's being held back by Obi-Wan. He knows he supposed to be the Chosen One, and he's extremely impatient. Acting like a typical teenager if you ask me... ;)
Intead of showing things that might confuse people--the Jedi being hunted by Vader, etc. Lucas chose to start at the beginning of the Star Wars saga--with the introduction of Anakin Skywalker--the antagonist of the Original Trilogy. He wanted to show how Anakin went from that nice little kid to the cold, heartless Dark Side Terminator.
Believe it or not, as annoying as Jar Jar is, he was actually essential. Remeber when Padme was absent from the Senate in Ep. 2? She appointed Jar Jar to represent Naboo. Well, Jar Jar is weak minded, and Palpatine knew that, so he influenced Jar Jar to vote for granting him emergency powers to fight the Separatists and eventually start the Clone Wars.
Everything and everyone has a place in the SW universe. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

[bam wannabe]

phazeshifter... THANK YOU!

about time someone clears this up for everyone else.
u are now my hero. :hail:

[BigEvil]

There were a few scenes that were deleted that could explain some of the c3po mind erasing thing. In the scene when Yoda and Obiwan decide to split the twins up, i read dialog that was omitted that when the question about the droids was brought up, it was determined that r2 could be trusted and 3po couldnt. Something like that.


There was also a scene with Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and Padme that was cut that had them talking about the formation of the rebellion. They axed this scene but kept the whole elevator sequence in. That I dont understand.

I think that this movie could have easily been 4 hrs and still not long enough. As far as Anakins "quick" jump to the dark side, dont forget, he's been under Palpatines influence since he was 10. He had also already let the dark side influence his actions previously.

just my $.02

[Vex]

There were a few scenes that were deleted that could explain some of the c3po mind erasing thing. In the scene when Yoda and Obiwan decide to split the twins up, i read dialog that was omitted that when the question about the droids was brought up, it was determined that r2 could be trusted and 3po couldnt. Something like that.


There was also a scene with Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and Padme that was cut that had them talking about the formation of the rebellion. They axed this scene but kept the whole elevator sequence in. That I dont understand.

I think that this movie could have easily been 4 hrs and still not long enough. As far as Anakins "quick" jump to the dark side, dont forget, he's been under Palpatines influence since he was 10. He had also already let the dark side influence his actions previously.

just my $.02
You are correct. There were scenes that should not have been cut, but I think that the discussion of the formation of the rebellion was a good one to delete--it was still too early in the story for the formation to really be feasable. They (senators, etc.) don't really know how Palpatine is going to rule. I think it takes a few years to get a Rebellion formed. They also cut the scene where Yoda speaks with Qui-Gon. Supposedly, we only hear Qui-Gon and not see him. Before he died, Qui-Gon only learned how to retain his consciousness in the Force and not his physical identity (spirit). He figures it out over time and passes this info on to Yoda, yada, yada, yada...
ROTS could easily have been 4 hours long and it still would have left some things up in the air. It did a great job of tying up some loose ends from Ep. 4 though, and for that, I give Lucas a lot of credit.
As far as C-3P0, someone else in the thread mentioned that it probably wasn't a good idea to let a chatterbox protocol droid know about such goings on, with the senators, Jedi, etc.

[Vex]

phazeshifter... THANK YOU!

about time someone clears this up for everyone else.
u are now my hero. :hail:
Thank you, thank you! Don't applaud, just send money! :D

[Blennidae]

3. Yoda knowing Chewie: What's wrong that? Wookiees live for over 200 years, and Yoda is 800, so where's the problem? It's not like Chewie had a huge role in the movie, or a very defining one for that matter. Yoda mentioned that he had a good relationship with the Wookiees, that's why he went to Kashyyyk. Chewie could have been a high-ranking warrior and that's why he was interacting with Yoda. Yoda went into seclusion, so Chewie could easily have forgotten about him. Plus, Chewie was in the movie for nostagia. It was nice to see an original character that every Star Wars fan should be familiar with. Plus, his involvement in the story is plausible, due to the fact that a campaign of the War was fought on Kashyyyk.


I don't want to address every point, as I agree on some of them, but I'll try to explain what "I" think is wrong with the Chewie/Yoda scene.

Sure both have long lifespans, both are on the planet for a reason. Where I think the problem lies is, its a planet full of wookies. Why have so many main characters know each other? Its a BIG galaxy. It makes it hard to believe that the wookie Yoda knows is going to end up working with a smuggler who hangs out on Tattooine, who happens to get picked to fly an old jedi and the son of the guy who helps bring down the republic. This particular son is now in possession of the droid dad built.

Does that make sense? Like I mentioned, having Chewie make a cameo appearance would have made me happier. Like the shot of the YT-1300 class ship, we as fans know what it represents, but we don't need it to be so blatent.

[Thordic]

Blennidae -

The Force works in mysterious ways :) Chewie and Han may have been the only ones who could have saved Luke and helped him do what he did.

[Steelrat]

Okay, bear with me--long post ahead: :eek:
Here we go:
1. George Lucas wrote ALL of the Star Wars movies at the SAME TIME during the early '70s. He wrote them not as individual episodes, but as one long "Space Opera". If you think I'm wrong, do your research and prove me wrong! He then broke them down into 9 episodes and then re-re-vamped them to 6. (Sorry folks, but by the time he made ANH, he never intended on filming 9 episodes...) Also, don't you think it makes almost no sense that you're just "thrown" into a movie and don't know anything about the characters? Remember the mention of the Clone Wars in ANH? There were a lot of questions as to what the hell happened before ANH that leads up to all of the fighting, the Empire, who exactly were the Jedi Knights, and why Luke was so special. Also, A New Hope implies that there was hope previously--so what happened?
Lucas had an imposible time finding a studio to release Ep. 4: A New Hope (so named not because it was the fourth time he pitched it, but because it was that chapter in his saga--sorry oldsoldier, but that's a fact. ;) ) Finally, and exec at Fox greenlighted him and he began production. Because Star Wars was such a huge hit (at the time it was the highest grossing movie ever!) that when it came time to film The Empire Strikes Back, Lucas took out a loan from a bank to finance the movie so that he could have total control and the rights to his movies. He bankrolled Jedi himself. He didn't want the studios to have the rights to his projects; his life.
This is all stuff that's on the bonus disc with the Original Trilogy DVDs--come on, people!!

2. C-3P0 and R2-D2 knowing each other: They are together in ANH, right? At the end of Ep. 3, Bail Organa orders Capt. Antilles (not Wedge--wouldn't have been born yet, or else be very young) to wipe 3P0's mind--thus, he doesn't remember anything prior to that (Anakin building him, relationship with Padme, etc.)--there's his excuse for not putting 2 and 2 together with Luke Skywalker's name sounding familiar.
R2-D2 pretty much belonged to Anakin during Episodes 1, 2 and 3, not Obi-Wan. R2 would not know that Anakin became Vader--how would he?
In ANH, Leia programs the droid with a message for Obi-Wan Kenobi, whom she knows about because of her father, whom he "served" in the Clone Wars. So they had to show Bail Organa in Episodes 2 and 3 for continuity. Now, R2 would know that he's supposed to find Obi-Wan, and could possibly know who he is, and give him a message. Obi-Wan on the other hand wouldn't necessarily remember one droid, from 20 years earlier, especially if he didn't interact with it a whole lot. Since it's 20 years later, there's also the possibility that R2's memory has also been wiped--it could happen.

3. Yoda knowing Chewie: What's wrong that? Wookiees live for over 200 years, and Yoda is 800, so where's the problem? It's not like Chewie had a huge role in the movie, or a very defining one for that matter. Yoda mentioned that he had a good relationship with the Wookiees, that's why he went to Kashyyyk. Chewie could have been a high-ranking warrior and that's why he was interacting with Yoda. Yoda went into seclusion, so Chewie could easily have forgotten about him. Plus, Chewie was in the movie for nostagia. It was nice to see an original character that every Star Wars fan should be familiar with. Plus, his involvement in the story is plausible, due to the fact that a campaign of the War was fought on Kashyyyk.

3. Yoda's fighting skills: The dude is an 800 year old Jedi--don't you think that his skills should surpass most? He's never dealt with a Sith Lord until Count Dooku (because they were "extinct" for over a 1,000 years.) And Dooku was not even close to the level of Sidious, so he gave Yoda a good run for his money in a battle of Force knowledge/manipulation. Plus, Yoda's a little old dude, he can only withstand so much...

4. Anakin vs. Mace: Anakin didn't kill Mace--I thought that was pretty obvious. He stopped Windu from killing Palpatine, albeit by slicing off his saber hand, thus allowing Palpatine to take advantage and fry him with Force lightning. Anakin was already confused by Palps. He was already being teased and baited with great power that could save Padme from death. If Palps were to die, then he would lose Padme. After Mace took a dive from umpteen stories up, Anakin couldn't believe what had just happened, so he was even more confused and therefore easily swayable. Palpatine had already earned his trust in the previous movie and they had a close relationship in this one. Anakin was hurt to find out that his mentor was the Sith Lord, but he was intrigued by the possibilty of having the power to save his wife. Palpatine played on Anakin's heart strings until they snapped. Once Anakin pledged himself to the Dark Side, for the purpose to save Padme, Palpatine had complete control over him. Anakin finally gave in to anger and fear.

5. Anakin and the Jedi Temple: The younglings weren't the only ones killed by Anakin. They were just the only ones "shown" so that we would get the feeling of how evil Anakin was to become. This was the most disturbing scene and I felt very sad during that one. Anakin was led to believe that the Jedi were his true enemies and that they needed to be dealt with. So of course he's got to kill the children, so that they don't grow to become Jedi and pose a threat. Besides, killing children is nothing new to him, he already slaughtered the Tusken Raider kids in Episode 2--remember? I actually was kind of hoping that they would show Anakin kill some Jedi--I was a little disappointed.

6. Anakin and Palpatine: Anakin is confused and lost. Palpatine knows this, knows his power potential, knows his loss, and plays on that. Nothing new here. I actually thought that Palpatine's revelation to Anakin about being a Sith Lord was flawlessly smooth, along with Ankakin's transition to the Darkside. Hurried? Maybe; but there was only 2 1/2 hours, so...

Overall. I felt this movie did a lot to tie up a lot of loose ends and open questions. They explain that Qui-Gon figured out how to live on in the Force and taught Yoda, who teaches Obi-Wan. They show how Vader got into the suit. They show that 3-P0's mind was ordered wiped. Bail Organa took Leia to Aleraan. Obi-Wan gave Luke to Beru and Owen on Tatooine.
In my opinion, mine only--I flame no one--I felt this was an excellent movie and an appropriate ending to a great story.

1. I never argued this point, and what you are saying makes sense. The creator of Babylon 5 did the same thing with that series. I know that Lucas certainly modified the script, and did not just drag it out of the vault, dust it off, and hand it out to the actors.

2. Not buying it. Millions and millions of droids, and the two droids in Ep1-3 happen to be the same two droids from Ep 4-6? I think that Lucas intentionally added in characters from 4-6 in a blatant attempt to generate fan interest "Come and see Chewbacca!" However, in doing so he sacrificed plausibility. And including them did nothing to advance the movie, other than relying upon the same ol' C3P0 "We're doomed!" humor as a crutch. Like Blennidae said, it could have been done in a more subtle manner, such as having R2 brifely featured in a scene. I'm also not buying that R2 wouldn't have filled everyone in during Ep 4-6. He was there for every battle and showdown, Im sure he knew what was going on with Anakin and Vader.

3. See #2 and Blennidae's comments. "Miss you much I will, Chewbacca." Too much for me.

4. Yoda's mighting skills. Its just me, but I would have preferred to see the old master tossing stuff around with his mental abilities rather than doing the ninja lightsaber moves. I did enjoy seeing him whack the 2 imperial guards when he went to see palpatine, but that was using the ol' mental powers. The lightsaber jumping just seemed corny to me, like something that was there to appeal to little kids.

5. Anakin and Mace. Lets not split hairs. When Anakin chopped off Mace's arm, I'm sure he wouldn't be thinking that he, Mace, and Palpatine would be having a nice sit down chat afterwards. But thats not really important. Whats important was that Anakin was confused by his dreams and Palpatine's promises. So during that confusion, he kills Mace. Fine. But after doing so, he just completely gives up on 20 years of Jedi training and becomes Darth Vader, just like that. There was about 10 seconds of though, and then hes off to chop up Jedi kids. Then afterwards, he rushes home to give Padme a hug? I understand that there were time constaints and all, but thats just not believable behavior. I think it would have been better if, as someone suggested, Anakin were persuaded to let some Troopers into the Temple to "arrest" the Jedi. Then, after the troopers slaughtered the Jedi, it would have created even more anguish for Anakin, pushing him more towards the Dark Side.

And killing the raider kids is light years from killing Jedi Kids he has known for years.

6. I don't buy giving Lucas a pass to rush the storyline because of time constraints. Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

There were some very well done things in the movie, such as the betrayel of the Jedi, I.E. Order 66 or whatever. Also, the ending, showing where Luke and Leia ended up, was also well done. I just can't overlook the bad. Starship Troopers at least had an excuse, as they had a limited budget. What was Lucas's excuse?

[BigEvil]

Steelrat,

I think everyone is missing something here. After Anikin housed Mace to save the Chancellor, Palpatine put it to him: (paraphrase) "What do you think the Jedi will do with us?"

So basically, once Anikin turned on Mace, it was all or nothing at that point. I think it was meant to be a "them or me" thing.

[Hexis]

After seeing 3 I now get a lot more out of 1 and 2. The entire point of 1 and 2 was to setup the fall, to give Anakin real motivation to go to the dark side.

Ep 1, he has to leave mom, that's a tough deal for a small child.
Ep 2, he has nightmares and finds out that they are real, and had he acted earlier, he may have saved mom. Then he fins a honey and shacks up. This both gives him somone that he cares about quite deeply, and starts to alienate him from the jedi.
Ep 3, The nightmares start again, this time he's worried abot his honey. Living for a few years with a wife that he can not admit to has also alienated him more. Palpy manipulates this masterfully to create an "Anakin vs the Jedi" situation, and gives him hope of saving his honey. That's pretty powerful for him.

I think the motivation was failry well established.

[Lohman446]

I thought they did a good job of explaining Anakins turn.

Mace had told him repeatedly that he did not trust him, and Anakin felt betrayed by the Jedi council when they refused to make him a "master" and gave him a seat on the council. He felt further betrayed when the asked him to spy on Palpatine (sp) but refused to ask officially. That action, and the secrecy was against the "jedi" code. Add to it Palpatine making it seem that the Jedi were trying to take power for themselves, and that he was just trying to restore "peace". Jedi can read peoples feelings, except for those powerful - certainly it must be confusing to them when they cannot read someone's feeling - how hard would it be for them to "see" a lie. Add this to Mace's desire to kill Palpatine rather than arrest him because he was "too powerful" and it surely could have seemed to Anakin that Palpatine was "right" and that the jedi were trying to take over. That and there was animosity with Mace to begin with - Anakin may not have attacked say yoda, or OB1 in that case but here Mace was trying to kill Palpatine when he was the most powerful there and Mace and Anakin did not like each other to begin with. I can see where it was possible for him to "defend" Palpatine. Once that step was made it would ahve been easy for him to beleive that the jedi in the temple were turned. Remember hsi words that he hoped OB1 served the empire and not the Jedi order when asked by Padme... it was not totally sudden.

[dre1919]

"Just because you did it first doesn't mean you did it better."

That's pretty much the way I feel about Star Wars. George Lucas made a wonderful and important addition to the Pop Culture Universe, but they aren't THAT great of films. They have incredible imagination and effects, yes, but aside from the first three movies (and Ewan McGregor), they don't have that good of acting. In addition to that, the good actors they do have (like Samuel L. Jackson), they hogtie with choppy and wooden script writing. This is all in addition to the fact that Lucas is lost on how to write a love scene. They are just movies, and people take them way too seriously. However, with that said, I am a very casual fan of the franchise and here are my thoughts on Episode III: Revenge of More Marketing.

I liked this movie more than the other films actually, mainly because it was more violent and had darker undertones. However, there were things I did not like about it: As Steelrat pointed out, it was just too TIDY. Too many characters knew too many other characters for any believeability to set in...it was just "Hey, this is the last prequel so we need to get all these guys in somewhere". I thought it was somewhat cowardly how Jar Jar, although I found him annoying too, was done away with completely after Ep.1. Nobody liked him? Too bad, he's part of the story. Just because there was media backlash he gets written out.

Anyway, my biggest issue with this film was Anakin himself. They spend all this time telling you how much of a powerful Jedi he is, even more so that Yoda, and yet he can't beat Obi Wan at the end? Sure, his ego and anger unbalanced him, but as a Sith they are supposed to make him stronger. If he's already the "chosen one", more powerful than even Yoda, and then made EVEN MORE powerful by his anger and ego as a Sith, then how does he lose to anybody? You would think threachery would be the only way to do someone like him in. Fighting one Jedi, even a really good one in Obi Wan, should be fairly easy for one of only two Siths...especially the almighty Anakin. Instead, he loses three limbs in one shot? No way. Obi Wan was like "I have the higher ground, it's over!" Ok, I've seen some fights between Jedi, in this film even, where they're fighting over all sorts of obsticles and Obi's standing on a little hill and thinks he's won his fight with Anakin? How? Not to mention, two more points on this fight: One, Anakin stright up drops Count Dooku, a better swordfighter at the time than Obi AND Anakin by himself, and he still can't beat Obi? I doubt it. Two, how come neither him or Obi used the "Force Push" to knock one or the other into the lava? They show they fighting like that all the time, and Anakin, all powerful, wouldn't think to force push Obi down before leaping over him? There were too many discrepencies to the way they fight. Count Dooku used the force push in his battles, so did Anakin when killing the seperatists (closing the doors). Where was his all mighty mastery of the Force against Obi Wan?

I agree, I think they sped up his decent to the dark side a bit. I can completely understand the angle they took, and the reasoning why he would join though. That was well done in my opinion. He loved his wife above all else, so whatever had to be done to save her was not out of the question. Also, he never really liked the Jedi or felt like he belonged, so what's it to him to kill some if he can gain personally from it? He's already shown he can kill in revenge, so why not cold blood, and for a good purpose? I really liked the cloaked, hooded, evil Anakin much better than the half robotic Darth Vader (by the way, if I joined the Sith I'd want a better name than "Vader"). The others get Sideous, Plagus, Tyrannous and Maul and he gets Vader? I would have told Palpatine "Thanks for making me sound like a car from the 70's."

These are pretty good films for their imagination, imagery, and place in Pop Culture but they are just that...movies. They aren't a happening, or a cult like experience. I think people should take them for what they are and be entertained, making their own critique like they would any other film.

[bleachit]

Anyway, my biggest issue with this film was Anakin himself. They spend all this time telling you how much of a powerful Jedi he is, even more so that Yoda, and yet he can't beat Obi Wan at the end? Sure, his ego and anger unbalanced him, but as a Sith they are supposed to make him stronger. If he's already the "chosen one", more powerful than even Yoda, and then made EVEN MORE powerful by his anger and ego as a Sith, then how does he lose to anybody? You would think threachery would be the only way to do someone like him in. Fighting one Jedi, even a really good one in Obi Wan, should be fairly easy for one of only two Siths...especially the almighty Anakin. Instead, he loses three limbs in one shot? No way. Obi Wan was like "I have the higher ground, it's over!" Ok, I've seen some fights between Jedi, in this film even, where they're fighting over all sorts of obsticles and Obi's standing on a little hill and thinks he's won his fight with Anakin? How? Not to mention, two more points on this fight: One, Anakin stright up drops Count Dooku, a better swordfighter at the time than Obi AND Anakin by himself, and he still can't beat Obi? I doubt it. Two, how come neither him or Obi used the "Force Push" to knock one or the other into the lava? They show they fighting like that all the time, and Anakin, all powerful, wouldn't think to force push Obi down before leaping over him? There were too many discrepencies to the way they fight. Count Dooku used the force push in his battles, so did Anakin when killing the seperatists (closing the doors). Where was his all mighty mastery of the Force against Obi Wan?



Anakin is very unstable emotionally and very confused mentally... Obi Wan is very level headed. that alone is enough to win a fight. Obi Wan taught Anakin, he has been with him for years. No one would know Anakin better than Obi Wan. Obi Wan has become a very powerful Jedi himself and is definately in control of himself much more so than Anakin. Also he takes a stab at Anakin's pride and arrogance when he claims he has won the battle. Anakin decides to show off, rather foolishly and Obi Wan, level headed, takes advantage.

as far as force pushing... they tried that, and both ended up in a wall.

[gamarada717]

4. Yoda's mighting skills. Its just me, but I would have preferred to see the old master tossing stuff around with his mental abilities rather than doing the ninja lightsaber moves. I did enjoy seeing him whack the 2 imperial guards when he went to see palpatine, but that was using the ol' mental powers. The lightsaber jumping just seemed corny to me, like something that was there to appeal to little kids.



I might agree with you on that one...I mean, in Episode 2, when Yoda busted out the light saber, everbody cheered. It was cool to see the little guy who walks with a cane flying through the air...but, they did the same thing for Episode 3. I too would have liked to see some more mental throwing of things. But, there is a pretty logical reason for that. The only things he had to throw were important pieces of the Senate room, and he probably didn't think that destroying things was the best way to kill Sidious.

[Steelrat]

I might agree with you on that one...I mean, in Episode 2, when Yoda busted out the light saber, everbody cheered. It was cool to see the little guy who walks with a cane flying through the air...but, they did the same thing for Episode 3. I too would have liked to see some more mental throwing of things. But, there is a pretty logical reason for that. The only things he had to throw were important pieces of the Senate room, and he probably didn't think that destroying things was the best way to kill Sidious.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think Yoda would have cared about breaking a marble bust or two when taking Sidious down ;)

A good friend, who is also a huge Star Wars fan, has told me that the "book lore" indicated that Jedi masters were all about the mental abilities, and considered using lightsabers to be crude and childish. That made sense to me too. Frankly, when I saw Yoda bust out the light saber in Ep. 2, I audibly groaned.

[Rooster]

I've tried to debate this with the fanboys that think Lucas can do no wrong, but Episode three was terrible.

The CGI looks fake. The Darth Maul lightsaber battle was the best in the prequels, where the dancing CGI blobs were kept to a minimum.

The story line was not continuous into Episode V.

Padme, who fought the trade federation at 14, dies of a broken heart?

The head jedi is going to kill someone in cold blood? The jedi don't have enough congnition or reflexes not to get shot in the back by their own troops?

A vision ends up driving Vader to kill children, on the command of someone he has a lose affiliation with? My boss has taught me alot. He even given me valuable personal advice. I consider him a friend and mentor. If he told me to kill someone, I doubt I would do it.

The battle scenes lacked the grandure of the last five. The scope was los in the quick fly through at the begining.

Last, the were no real people. They were either clones, robots, or jedi. Where is the everyman Han Solo type guy? Someone normal people can relate to.

[Lohman446]

Why did the battle droids express pain when hurt... and others fear when confronted, wouldn't that have not been programmed into them?

[Steelrat]

I've tried to debate this with the fanboys that think Lucas can do no wrong, but Episode three was terrible.

The CGI looks fake. The Darth Maul lightsaber battle was the best in the prequels, where the dancing CGI blobs were kept to a minimum.

The story line was not continuous into Episode V.

Padme, who fought the trade federation at 14, dies of a broken heart?

The head jedi is going to kill someone in cold blood? The jedi don't have enough congnition or reflexes not to get shot in the back by their own troops?

A vision ends up driving Vader to kill children, on the command of someone he has a lose affiliation with? My boss has taught me alot. He even given me valuable personal advice. I consider him a friend and mentor. If he told me to kill someone, I doubt I would do it.

The battle scenes lacked the grandure of the last five. The scope was los in the quick fly through at the begining.

Last, the were no real people. They were either clones, robots, or jedi. Where is the everyman Han Solo type guy? Someone normal people can relate to.

Glad I'm not alone.

[Steelrat]

Why did the battle droids express pain when hurt... and others fear when confronted, wouldn't that have not been programmed into them?

I wondered the same thing myself when the droids were trying to get off the command deck of Grievous's cruiser. I'm no expert, but if I were going to design a droid to go into battle, a sense of fear might be something I would leave out of their programming.

[BobDoleIsMyHero]

As to droids having the ability to feel pain and fear that is common to the series as a whole(see ROTJ when droids are being tortured in jabba's palace). Lucas wanted to make droids more human as well as using droid emotion for comical values.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet(as i didn't care to read every post)but c3po and r2d2 knowing eachother prior to a new hope is not a mistake if you watch again you will see the c3po mentions that they have been through a lot together.

in general i agree with most of you that the prequels should never have been made, that being said i think you guys are finding flaws that don't exist just to be able to get a few more digs in on these low quality films. the greatest problem by far with these movies is that unlike the originals the screen play was written by lucas himself. in 4-6 he wrote the story and professionals wrote the screen play but in 1-3 he wrote it all. not many actors could work with the crap he calls dialogue. ick.

As for the thing with Anikin, I am certian that i would have no qualms about slaughtering a room full of children to ensure that I could sleep with Natalie Portman...

[Vex]

RE:

I've tried to debate this with the fanboys that think Lucas can do no wrong, but Episode three was terrible.

The CGI looks fake. The Darth Maul lightsaber battle was the best in the prequels, where the dancing CGI blobs were kept to a minimum.

The story line was not continuous into Episode V.
What about it wasn't continuous? What questions do you still have?

Padme, who fought the trade federation at 14, dies of a broken heart?
She died as a result of the Force choke that Vader laid upon her throat.

The head jedi is going to kill someone in cold blood? The jedi don't have enough congnition or reflexes not to get shot in the back by their own troops?
If you watch closely, you will see that the Jedi all realize too late what is happening. The only clueless ones are the one on the speeder bike and Plo Koon, in the starfighter. But then, they were traveling at high rates of speed and there wouldn't have been much they could do anyway. Every other Jedi went down fighting/trying to fight.

A vision ends up driving Vader to kill children, on the command of someone he has a lose affiliation with?
It's not like he hasn't killed kids before...Besides, they are traitorous Jedi.
My boss has taught me alot. He even given me valuable personal advice. I consider him a friend and mentor. If he told me to kill someone, I doubt I would do it.
What if he told you what you wanted to hear though? What if you were confused about your life and he seemingly had all of your answers?

The battle scenes lacked the grandure of the last five. The scope was los in the quick fly through at the begining.

Last, the were no real people. They were either clones, robots, or jedi. Where is the everyman Han Solo type guy? Someone normal people can relate to.
This story doesn't involve the "every man" and has no place for him. It is about the rise of Vader and the fall of the Jedi. Besides, I thought Bail Organa was pretty ordinary. If you want to see the "Han Solo", watch the OT.

[Vex]

All in all, everyone has their opinions about the movie(s) and they are not wrong for that. I'm glad that there is a discussion/debate about them though because I love talking about the films, books, etc. While my knowledge on SW is what I would call extensive, I am by no means an expert.

Thanks for all of the great discussions!


I just wanted to say that :D

[Steelrat]

Phazeshifter, when the medical droid talks to Obi Wan, it specifically states that there is nothing physically wrong with Padme, and that she had just lost the will to live. Force choke had nothing to do with it.

[Asian_Sensation]

well first off everyone is pissed about the whole.... all the sudden he becomes evil cuz of a dream.

Dreams have done a lot in the real world today.... for example.

Dr Martin luther king jr had a dream once.... and it changed America forever.

then what about you guys saying... stuff about how the chanceller warps his mind is unrealistic.... but when someone was in such a state of fear and confusion as anakin was it is easy to manipulate. Hence the chanceller said exactly want anakin wanted to hear like the stuff about the council being traitors and truning against them(anaking joining council but not being a master..... um watching (samuel jackson...forgot characters name) going against the jedi way by killing a prisoner)
and another real life example of this type of manipulation is....

Adolf Hilter. to come into power he manipulated tons of people because germany was in depression and the people where in a state of fear and confusion... and once again... he changed the world forever.

idk what else to really say about your guys nay saying... maybe you guys should think more before you rant and get angry...anger leads to the dark side.....

[Steelrat]

well first off everyone is pissed about the whole.... all the sudden he becomes evil cuz of a dream.

Dreams have done a lot in the real world today.... for example.

Dr Martin luther king jr had a dream once.... and it changed America forever.

then what about you guys saying... stuff about how the chanceller warps his mind is unrealistic.... but when someone was in such a state of fear and confusion as anakin was it is easy to manipulate. Hence the chanceller said exactly want anakin wanted to hear like the stuff about the council being traitors and truning against them(anaking joining council but not being a master..... um watching (samuel jackson...forgot characters name) going against the jedi way by killing a prisoner)
and another real life example of this type of manipulation is....

Adolf Hilter. to come into power he manipulated tons of people because germany was in depression and the people where in a state of fear and confusion... and once again... he changed the world forever.

idk what else to really say about your guys nay saying... maybe you guys you think more before you rant and get angery...anger leads to the dark side.....

Wait, I missed something. Anakin killed the jedi because he had a dream about Martin Luther King Jr. manipulating Hitler, what?

Seriously, no one is angry or ranting. I only got a bit upset when that one guy's argument consisted of "STFU."

[Asian_Sensation]

Wait, I missed something. Anakin killed the jedi because he had a dream about Martin Luther King Jr. manipulating Hitler, what?

Seriously, no one is angry or ranting. I only got a bit upset when that one guy's argument consisted of "STFU."

o lol.... i hate "stfu" comments lol but what i was showing were examples that any can happen... especially if one is strong with the force. ;) :rofl: :rolleyes:

[ascetic1]

"Just because you did it first doesn't mean you did it better."

Anyway, my biggest issue with this film was Anakin himself. They spend all this time telling you how much of a powerful Jedi he is, even more so that Yoda, and yet he can't beat Obi Wan at the end? Sure, his ego and anger unbalanced him, but as a Sith they are supposed to make him stronger. If he's already the "chosen one", more powerful than even Yoda, and then made EVEN MORE powerful by his anger and ego as a Sith, then how does he lose to anybody? You would think threachery would be the only way to do someone like him in. Fighting one Jedi, even a really good one in Obi Wan, should be fairly easy for one of only two Siths...especially the almighty Anakin. Instead, he loses three limbs in one shot? No way. Obi Wan was like "I have the higher ground, it's over!" Ok, I've seen some fights between Jedi, in this film even, where they're fighting over all sorts of obsticles and Obi's standing on a little hill and thinks he's won his fight with Anakin? How? Not to mention, two more points on this fight: One, Anakin stright up drops Count Dooku, a better swordfighter at the time than Obi AND Anakin by himself, and he still can't beat Obi? I doubt it. Two, how come neither him or Obi used the "Force Push" to knock one or the other into the lava? They show they fighting like that all the time, and Anakin, all powerful, wouldn't think to force push Obi down before leaping over him? There were too many discrepencies to the way they fight. Count Dooku used the force push in his battles, so did Anakin when killing the seperatists (closing the doors). Where was his all mighty mastery of the Force against Obi Wan?



You have raised some good points, and some I would like to share my opinion on...
First, I have my own tid bit to add here....Seeing all of the movies, i would have to agree that the acting in 4-6 was far better than 1-3, but the effects were great in 1-3. Again, to each their own, so I take these movie for what they are worth...Now here's the thing, way back when they didnt have all of these special effects, so insted they used scaled down models and what ever they could with explosions etc, but hell it still looked awesome. Nowadays almost EVERY movie has some, if not all computer effects added in for either realism or accomplishing something that humans cannot. There is no possible way you can imitat large scale battle fields in the middle of a desert, small arena, or in the middle of a volcano without the use of computers, am I right? Add in the 500,000 plus soldiers, weaponry etc...So all of what Lucas was doing was staying with the times, and who can blame him? Anyways the "first" three movies, in all essence, were majorly used to connect the characters of 4-6, showing how Luke and Leah were related, the republic was turned into the Empire, Sith created the wars for Anikan's turnover, how Obi Wan/Robots/Wookie came into play...I wasnt expecting anything more from these movies, seeing the final product already in the last ones.

Ok, now onto the quotes. Anakin wasnt a 30 year old trained veteran Jedi, he was an 18-19 year old kid, with a large ego, and bitter past. He let his feelings get the better of him as well as his ego making him stray from the Jedi dudes, and felt left out. Feeling he had bigger fish to fry, he left and turned against them, also wanting to save his wife from these dreams of his. Had he been all powerful, he would have defeated Dooku in the second movie no? Instead he lost his right arm! He defeated Mace Windo because he was caught off guard, ready to kill the Sith guy, who was supposed to be powerful as well..I dont recall at the time why he defeated Dooku so easily as you said, but yes he cut off limbs(that i do remember) With Obi, both used the push thing, and both flew into walls..They were equally powerful. Anakin was still lacking the training he needed to BE all powerful, because we was unpatient, one of the other reasons he distrusted the council(no "big" assignments)..

All in all, the "prequels" if you will only got better in time in my opinion. Yes Jar Jar was a pointless babbling freak, and the only real significance of the Wookies was an Alliance to the Republic, the movies were still good and only got better regardless of the poor acting in 1-2, and the seemingly needless or overdone special effects..Each person has a preference in what they like/dont like, and thats what I have to say

[Asian_Sensation]

well said...

but i see people bringing up that Anakin is the chosen one the almighty who will bring down the sith.... yet in the last epsiode he proves this prophecy....hence him throwing the sith downa well thing lol


also in the battle between yoda and chancellor.... the chancellor says somehting about anakin WILL become the most powerful jedi..EVENTUALLY stronger then both you and i..... so i believe that means anakin was not complete yet... he was on his way to becoming powerful....

another thing brought up is the fight with obi won.... first off anakin was not fully trained int he ways of the sith.... hence him being an apprentice (the chancellor saying to the seperatist..."my APPRENTICE (anakin) will deal with you") also if episode 4 obi and anakin fight again.... when anakin is fully trained.... and anakin teh pwned obi.

so stop asking these futile questions my young padawans..... maybe if you were stronger with the force you could figure it out.... hmmm stronger you must be, yes. :sleeping:

[Automaggot68]

Uhm.
On the note of Yoda and Chewie....at what poiint the the latter Episodes did Yoda and Chewie ever interact?

I mean.

Because Yoda never left Dagobah in the movies. And Uh.
Chewie never went there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Blennidae]

Uhm.
On the note of Yoda and Chewie....at what poiint the the latter Episodes did Yoda and Chewie ever interact?

I mean.

Because Yoda never left Dagobah in the movies. And Uh.
Chewie never went there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


I think that is the point. Since there is no further relationship between the two shown in the later movies, it was gratuitous to show them together like they did in ep.3. It didn't really add anything to the story. It was just a "hey look, Chewbacca's in the movie!" kind of thing.

[wyn1370]

To anyone who thinks lucas wrote all the movies at the same time, go back and watch the interviews again. He blantantly said that he had a very loose outline, nothing more. There needed to be a clone war, the republic becomes an empire and anakin becomes vader, that's all he had. I think in the since the first news of the prequals hit, he has changed the description of what was already completed for 1-3 drastically. 1-3 vs. 4-6 seem like they where written by completely different people because they where, end of story.

On a similar note, has anyone heard the old tale that lucas bought the stories off someone else?

[BigEvil]

On a similar note, has anyone heard the old tale that lucas bought the stories off someone else?

If that were true there would have been HUGE amounts of litigation all the way back from 1978. Even if someone 'sold' the stories to him, im sure whomever that was would have a least tried to get their hand in the cookie jar.

[dre1919]

You have raised some good points, and some I would like to share my opinion on...

I really don't have a problem with the prequels. They have great effects, are entertaining and awesome to watch, so to me it's no big deal. I just think people spend too much time disecting them...like we are here for example. :)

Anyway, my thing with Anakin is that ok, someone brought up the point that Obi Wan taught him, so he would know how to beat him. That, and his statement of the fight being "over" was a taunt to get Anakin to do something stupid. However, my point was, if he was "all powerful" and the most amazing Jedi ever (The Chosen One), he still shouldn't be able to be taken out by anyone than perhaps Yoda. He bested a Sith Lord BY HIMSELF (Dooku), because Obi Wan got knocked cold. Ok, both Anakin and Obi tried the force push thing on each other? I forgot that...but why not come back to it at a more opportune time? Like, say, when Obi Wan is trying to keep his balance on an object. Count Dooku used it on Obi to knock him out in their fight, so obviously Obi can be surprised by it, he just wasn't the first (and only time) Anakin tried it on him. I would have went back to that tactic. Or, if he was ruthlessly evil, he could have even used Padme as a human shield to get Obi to submit. He was all the way evil by that point, and believed Padme to be covorting with Obi, so why not a ruse (not saying he'd actually kill Padme or anything)?

I just have a problem with the fact they trumpet how powerful of a Jedi he is, and yet someone can best him in a straight up sword fight. Ok, maybe he's not as good with a saber yet. Fine. Where's his special mastery of the Force above and beyond that of a normal Jedi then? It would have made me happier to not see him lose to Obi Wan, better to have a draw or a no contest (or even him being tricked) by him falling into the lava, or getting badly burned by it or something (other than the way he did). I just didn't buy the discrenpencies in fights. Dooku slapped Obi around like a little girl, Anakin crushes Dooku, then loses to Obi. No continuity. Other than that, I think the film was really good.

One last point that I thought was odd. Anakin was always this petualant, angry teenager. Ok, but as soon as he straps on the Vader armor he becomes very calm, collected, "yes master" type. What, did his suit come with instant maturation as well? How come Palpatine could snap his fingers and Annie would no longer even question or get mad about a decision? He was cold and lifeless, with no emotion anymore (until the end of his final battle with Luke)?

~dre

[Lohman446]

It was loosing Padme that turned him lifeless, he lost all will to be "himself"

[MicroMiniMe]

To anyone who thinks lucas wrote all the movies at the same time, go back and watch the interviews again. He blantantly said that he had a very loose outline, nothing more. There needed to be a clone war, the republic becomes an empire and anakin becomes vader, that's all he had. I think in the since the first news of the prequals hit, he has changed the description of what was already completed for 1-3 drastically. 1-3 vs. 4-6 seem like they where written by completely different people because they where, end of story.
...

This was my understanding as well. From the the George Maltin interviews on the VHS box set. Also, didn't ole Steve Speilberg get started with Lucas, and then went off on his own doing the Raiders of the Lost Arc/Indiana Jones trilogy?

Lucas has a good relationship with Joseph Campell, and had a great ability for storytelling and creativity. But writing a manuscript is not his strength.

/So in 10 years will there be 'Remastered Enhanced' versions of 1-3? :tard:

/Jar Jar played by Michael Jackson as himself on work release
/Younglings just all fell down the stairs, nothing to see here...
/IG88 has a cameo as a Jawa Juice vending machine

[MrMag]

PADME!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO




....... :tard:

[breg]

Episode 3, I will never get the ticket price back. About the only good part, visually was the opening scene with the space battle raging around the two Jedi. But, aside from that and Padme's nightgown, the movie was over wrought, and well down right hokey. In fact, my friend said that when DarthVader yelled NOOOOO!!!!! Reminded him of the commerical when his light saber ran out of juice against the Energizer Bunny.
Though I DID like how when Palpatine went into dark side mode, his very posture changed, along with his voice.
I just did not like the movie as much as I thought I would.
Hell, even Samuel Jackson did not have a good Jedi death. He got thrown out a window!

[HarrysSon]

i just saw it today lol, i thought it awesome but R2D2 didnt have jets on episode 4, 5, or 6... i liked how things fell into place into the older movies like Anakin becoming darth vader and all those other things

on a scale of 1-10, i give episode 3 an 8

[Vex]

Phazeshifter, when the medical droid talks to Obi Wan, it specifically states that there is nothing physically wrong with Padme, and that she had just lost the will to live. Force choke had nothing to do with it.
Actually, the Force choke had everything to do with it.
Breakdown:
Anakin's pissed because he thinks Padme, his love, betrayed him to Obi-Wan. She sees that he's totally consumed by the Dark Side; he chokes her; she loses her will to live...

TA DA! :clap:

[Vex]

This was my understanding as well. From the the George Maltin interviews on the VHS box set. Also, didn't ole Steve Speilberg get started with Lucas, and then went off on his own doing the Raiders of the Lost Arc/Indiana Jones trilogy?

Lucas has a good relationship with Joseph Campell, and had a great ability for storytelling and creativity. But writing a manuscript is not his strength.

/So in 10 years will there be 'Remastered Enhanced' versions of 1-3? :tard:

/Jar Jar played by Michael Jackson as himself on work release
/Younglings just all fell down the stairs, nothing to see here...
/IG88 has a cameo as a Jawa Juice vending machine
Spielberg and Lucas did Indiana Jones together.
Lucas had a rough outline of how he wanted the story to go. He had the ENTIRE saga written around the same time.
There are dozens of interviews with him stating this.

[Steelrat]

Actually, the Force choke had everything to do with it.
Breakdown:
Anakin's pissed because he thinks Padme, his love, betrayed him to Obi-Wan. She sees that he's totally consumed by the Dark Side; he chokes her; she loses her will to live...

TA DA! :clap:

Yeah, but thats not what you implied before:


She died as a result of the Force choke that Vader laid upon her throat.

Good reasoning that second time though ;) But Homey still don't play that.

[wyn1370]

Spielberg and Lucas did Indiana Jones together.
Lucas had a rough outline of how he wanted the story to go. He had the ENTIRE saga written around the same time.
There are dozens of interviews with him stating this.
ok, you're stating two completely different things, how can he have a rough outline and have the the ENTIRE saga written, not the same.

Personally I think he's full of crap, and he had next to nothing completed for 1-3. And even if he did, who's to say he didn't completely re-write it all anyway. I mean look how much he has changed of the original triology between all the different versions.

[SlartyBartFast]

i just saw it today lol, i thought it awesome but R2D2 didnt have jets on episode 4, 5, or 6...

Heck, all droids needed cranes to get them in and out of ships.

1-2-3 = Ships piloted by droids. Complex display screens.

4-5-6 = Ships piloted by humans. Low tech.

Star Wars has always been great eye-candy with a poor story and badly thought out premise.

THe worst thing though is that the writing was so poor, nothing was left open. Nothing left to discuss, few questions to keep interest.


But all I could think of while Anakin/Vadar was being transported after being burned was: "Good thing he lost his legs, otherwise that medical pod would be too short." :rofl:

But really. Why would Obi leave Vadar alive? Either finish your enemy off, give him a sword to take their own life, or have pity for your own comrade/brother and put him out of his misery.

Star Wars never took its tech seriously like the trekie idiots, so htere's less to explain and incongruities are forgiveable. But, the lack of explaination and the unclear aspect of when Anakin was being a whiney impatient idiot and when he was under the influence of either the dark side or Sidious' mind powers made it difficult to follow.

[matt-o]

I think that is the point. Since there is no further relationship between the two shown in the later movies, it was gratuitous to show them together like they did in ep.3. It didn't really add anything to the story. It was just a "hey look, Chewbacca's in the movie!" kind of thing.
though i didnt like ep3 much i did kind of like how lucas did that. the only reason yoda survived was because he was not only with the clones, but the wookies. i dunno why but i liked that, obi wan's survival of that huge fall sucked however and made no sense. im kinda starting to like ep3 more since ive watched the other 5 again, its sure not as good as 4/5/6 but much better than the ep1/2.the darker theme of the movie helped alot to make it more interesting and cover up the little things. but i also doubt that the death star took 18 or so years to finish, or that it could be kept secret from the alliance for that long.

[atm743]

jest to say this before reading my post

its late im tired i can spell so please dont flame me because i can spell

i have things that i want to state and i would like to see what people have to think on my thoughts of the movie and what will happen





well i have jest got back from seeing it and i have to agree and disagree with you

i really do hate how he has the dream and he's like must save padima

plus with all the charactors shorted it dosent look like it can jest jump from this movie to the episode 4

also i have to say is

were is lando carizian and hon solo

hon know's chobaka and lando stole the melenium falcon from the empire

ooooooooooooooooo

there has to been an other episode then

i can see it now

STAR WARS VERSTION 3.5 :D

but i did like the fighting sequenses and how it shows how he turned and what happen to luke and lea

[atm743]

note this may be a spoiler to some people i dont think it will but im saying it anyway
































why at the end did yoda say that we can talk with jrigon jin ???

then nothing showed him ??

whats with that.

[Steelrat]

Lucas is moving the whole franchise over to TV. I guess he wanted to create some good lead-ins to a potential series.

[atm743]

Lucas is moving the whole franchise over to TV. I guess he wanted to create some good lead-ins to a potential series.


man that sucks

Everytime you see though 1 hour long shows they dont turn out good

i have faith that he will make an other star wars movie

[Vendetta]

As a 35 year old male, I can tell you that Star Wars died for me half way through Return of the Jedi. Everything was going along so great until those damn Ewoks showed up. Episodes 1-3 were terrible, but the worst cut of all was altering the original Star Wars. :cry:

[SCpoloRicker]

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwars/4-04A-2004.jpg


DAMN YOU BEARDED ONE!

and the flannel you rode in on

[SlartyBartFast]

The underlying of the Star Wars movies is clear: Women lead to the dark side.

Both Anakin and Luke are OBVIOUSLY related. They both come from the whiney, impatient, selfcentered, and desperate for female company side of the force.

They BOTH fall for the first girl they’re locked in a spacecraft with.

However, only Anakin gets the girl. Luke remains the single Geek.

Only Anakin turns to the dark side.

Therefor: Women lead to the dark side. :rofl:

Or, Is the series all about “You’ll sell your soul for a woman, but not for your sister.”?

[SlartyBartFast]

All right, I have to admit I had the giggles from the opening battle scene.

Picture this: Technology that can destroy planets, lazers, explosive devices, etc.

So, what do you pack into a hyper fast and sophisticated missile? Yes, that’s right, automated dremel tools.

Or, what IS R2 doing when the computer interface doo-hicky is spinning? Technology enough to create lightsabers, computer to computer communication accomplished by rotary telephone.

Droids flying ships: Why limit your droids interface with the ship to human interfaces and consoles? Why have droids on the bridge at all?

I’ll make a lot of room and suspend my disbelief for the sake of a good story unfortunately Star Wars was NEVER good, just great eye candy. So, the mind is left to wander and try to fathom the bizarre Rube-Goldberg universe that is being presented.....

[Vendetta]

Or, Is the series all about “You’ll sell your soul for a woman, but not for your sister.”?

How about selling your soul for the pre-teen market?

I had forgot about the sissification of Han Solo. :mad:

[Vex]

I had forgot about the sissification of Han Solo. :mad:
Apparently, Princess Leia tends to have that effect on men. I mean, if you saw her in her Slave Girl bikini, you'd "sissify" yourself pretty quickly to get into that chastity belt...

Anyway, I hate to say it, but Han Solo is more macho than Luke, the great Jedi; however, later on in the books, he finally does come around and start kicking butt.

[Vendetta]

I meant that Lucas altered the scene to make the alien shoot at Han first. Han shot it under the table and the alien didn't shoot. :shooting:

May be I should have said that Lucas PC'ed the scene, ala Spielberg in ET turning guns into walkie-talkies. He's getting on my ____-list too. :cuss:

[bunny5]

note this may be a spoiler to some people i dont think it will but im saying it anyway

why at the end did yoda say that we can talk with jrigon jin ???

then nothing showed him ??

whats with that.

I forgot where I read this but they actually had a long scene about that but took it out. I'll try and find the source for it.

Well if you haven't bought the other movies digitally remastered. Lucas actually puts alot of extras in them.

Off the top of my head, very strong jedis can basically come back from the force. Blah blah blah. Anakin is in the 6th movie... Lucas put him in digitally. Its pretty tight.

[Vex]

I meant that Lucas altered the scene to make the alien shoot at Han first. Han shot it under the table and the alien didn't shoot. :shooting:

May be I should have said that Lucas PC'ed the scene, ala Spielberg in ET turning guns into walkie-talkies. He's getting on my ____-list too. :cuss:
Gotcha! ;)


Here's how the Star Wars Saga goes (read carefully):

In the beginning (Eps. 1-3), the galaxy was all techno-savvy and junk. Lots o' droids that could do lots o' stuff. R2 units had booster jets and battle droids had senses of humor. After Palpatine became the Anti-Jedi; he pretty much axed the galaxy's techno advancements. Things sort of reverted to a "Dark Age" and that's why the HUDs (heads up display) in the X-Wings weren't as modern, and that's why the R2 units no longer had booster packs, yada, yada, yada...etc. and so on.

The reason that Lucas dicked around so much with the OT and made the special editions is because he finally had the technology to make HIS movies the way he wanted to. He has stated many times that he didn't have the technology in 1977 to make SW the way he truly envisioned it. Of course, over the years, his vision has changed, but dammit: THEY ARE HIS MOVIES!!
Get over it people! If you don't like the movies, don't watch them! Then you won't have anything to gripe about and those of us that do like the movies won't have to listen to you bash them!
:D

[Vex]

ok, you're stating two completely different things, how can he have a rough outline and have the the ENTIRE saga written, not the same.
I see how that reads, but that's not what I meant.

I meant that Lucas had a rough outline of the entire story way back when.
Then he wrote the entire saga at the same time (I, II, III, IV, V, VI).
Of course he went back and re-wrote stuff for the first 3 movies. I'm sure there was a lot of stuff that he changed, but the basic story and outline stayed the same. If you read interviews with him, the entire saga was a lot different than it turned out.

[Miscue]

I don't like Hayden as Anakin... The kid from EP1 was a much better Anakin. I've thought to myself: "This is supposed to be one of the baddest bad-asses of all time???"

[GhillieGuy]

I would have to say that episode 3 rocked. And i'm getting a little tired of people bashing on the movie and saying how unrealistic it is. I mean thats cool if you think that but come on, leave it to yourself. Another thing is that Lucas planned it all out 30 years ago.. He planed out that they all knew echother and thats how they all first met. R2 and 3p0 met in the first serious and have been with eachother the whole series. I would have to say their were a few things that went "wrong" in the movie like when vader stepped off of the chamber he looked like frankinstien. And sometimes palpatine overexaderated. Overall it was a good flick.

[GhillieGuy]

Get over it people! If you don't like the movies, don't watch them! Then you won't have anything to gripe about and those of us that do like the movies won't have to listen to you bash them!
Very well said phazeshifter! :headbang: :D

[NoForts4Me]

I would have to say their were a few things that went "wrong" in the movie like when vader stepped off of the chamber he looked like frankinstien. And sometimes palpatine overexaderated. Overall it was a good flick.I believe the Frankenstein similarities were not a mistake. The scene is layed out very similar to the original Frankenstein movie, and we are supposed to see that Vader has become a "monster" very much like the Frankenstein monster...something to be feared, but also pitied. George Lucas is always very purposeful in his movies, more so than some imagine. He doesn't always pull it off, but there is almost always a method behind his madness.

[SCpoloRicker]

Lucas started writing Episode I in 1994.

He had a 6 page treatment of the prequels when he wrote IV-VI.

I'll take bets, fanboys. :ninja:

[WingMan13]

I believe the Frankenstein similarities were not a mistake. The scene is layed out very similar to the original Frankenstein movie, and we are supposed to see that Vader has become a "monster" very much like the Frankenstein monster...something to be feared, but also pitied. George Lucas is always very purposeful in his movies, more so than some imagine. He doesn't always pull it off, but there is almost always a method behind his madness.

Yes, very well said. :cheers:

[Dryden]

I think that is the point. Since there is no further relationship between the two shown in the later movies, it was gratuitous to show them together like they did in ep.3. It didn't really add anything to the story. It was just a "hey look, Chewbacca's in the movie!" kind of thing.On the bright side, at least the running time of the film dictated editing out the scene that would have made the wookie sequence even more absurd ... the child Han Solo, who was raised by wookies and which has been reported was originally filmed for Ep 3; probably will wind up on the DVD.

I want my money back just for the Darth Vader-is-born, "Noooooo," sequence. What began as the single scene in the entire prequel series that could redeem the franchise, the respirator clicking on and hearing the first breath of Vader, was completely underminded by that single line.

The dialogue between Padme and Anakin was dumb. Just dumb.

Screw Lucas. I wish Irvin Kershner & Lawrence Kasdan had made these films.

Empire Strikes Back:

"I love you."
"I know."

Now THAT'S dialogue.

[Steelrat]

I would have to say that episode 3 rocked. And i'm getting a little tired of people bashing on the movie and saying how unrealistic it is. I mean thats cool if you think that but come on, leave it to yourself. Another thing is that Lucas planned it all out 30 years ago.. He planed out that they all knew echother and thats how they all first met. R2 and 3p0 met in the first serious and have been with eachother the whole series. I would have to say their were a few things that went "wrong" in the movie like when vader stepped off of the chamber he looked like frankinstien. And sometimes palpatine overexaderated. Overall it was a good flick.

I'll bash on it all I like, thank you. I paid my hard-earned money to go see it, so I've earned that right.

I don't think Lucas had anything other than a very brief, very rough draft of the prequels planned out when he made the first movie, if he had anything at all.

[SlartyBartFast]

I don't think Lucas had anything other than a very brief, very rough draft of the prequels planned out when he made the first movie, if he had anything at all.

The finished script for all six movies IS brief.
:rofl:

The entire series can be summed up on one page single spaced.

[Vendetta]

He should have made the entire movie in CGI. May be he would have spent a little attention to the human characters.

[SlartyBartFast]

He should have made the entire movie in CGI. May be he would have spent a little attention to the human characters.
:rofl:

You think?

Imagine the movies with Jar-Jar as the hero. :shooting:

[SCpoloRicker]

Lucas started writing Episode I in 1994.

He had a 6 page treatment of the prequels when he wrote IV-VI.

I'll take bets, fanboys. :ninja:

Bears repeating.

/young Han on Kaashykk? NNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Vendetta]

As bad and annoying as Jar-Jar was, at least he had a personality. Unlike every live action actor Lucas worked with.

[bam wannabe]

Screw Lucas. I wish Irvin Kershner & Lawrence Kasdan had made these films.

Empire Strikes Back:

"I love you."
"I know."

Now THAT'S dialogue.


but Harrison Ford made that line. the origional line was for him to simply say "i love you too." but Ford said thats not the way Solo would have said it, so he changed it without notifying anyone of the time. So the credit for that line goes to a good actor, not a good writer.

[Vex]

but Harrison Ford made that line. the origional line was for him to simply say "i love you too." but Ford said thats not the way Solo would have said it, so he changed it without notifying anyone of the time. So the credit for that line goes to a good actor, not a good writer.
Correct! Ford totally made that scene ten times better than what it was supposed to be!

[Vex]

Lucas started writing Episode I in 1994.

He had a 6 page treatment of the prequels when he wrote IV-VI.

I'll take bets, fanboys. :ninja:
Well, no one said that Lucas didn't write the script for Ep. 1 in 1994. Of course he wrote the prequels later--he knew he was going to make them into films and had to actually write a detailed story, versus an outline.

Overall, he had the entire story outlined over 30 years ago. When he decided to make a movie (Ep. IV) he decided that it would be better to start the movies in the middle and focus on the galaxy's eventual triumph over the Empire.
Why he thought that, I don't know--but apparently, it worked!

[Jakedubbleya]

but Harrison Ford made that line. the origional line was for him to simply say "i love you too." but Ford said thats not the way Solo would have said it, so he changed it without notifying anyone of the time. So the credit for that line goes to a good actor, not a good writer.

yousa nerd jarjar!

[Vendetta]

Overall, he had the entire story outlined over 30 years ago. When he decided to make a movie (Ep. IV)

I don't remember it being called episode IV 30 years ago. I think he added that crap on later after Star Wars made Big $.


but Harrison Ford made that line. the origional line was for him to simply say "i love you too." but Ford said thats not the way Solo would have said it, so he changed it without notifying anyone of the time. So the credit for that line goes to a good actor, not a good writer.

Now the Lucas is this mega-powerful "director" the actors probablly had to follow his every word

[GhillieGuy]

I'll bash on it all I like, thank you. I paid my hard-earned money to go see it, so I've earned that right.

I don't think Lucas had anything other than a very brief, very rough draft of the prequels planned out when he made the first movie, if he had anything at all.
Hared earned money? It costs 5 bux to go and see it I work at a movie theater. Go ahead and bash on it all you want, no one really cares.. ;)

[Steelrat]

LOL, I guess there's 5 pages of noone caring ;)

[Vex]

I don't remember it being called episode IV 30 years ago. I think he added that crap on later after Star Wars made Big $.



Now the Lucas is this mega-powerful "director" the actors probablly had to follow his every word
From the very first showing of Star Wars, in 1977, it had "Episode IV: A New Hope" in the beginning scroll. This had a lot of people confused and asking, "Where did episodes I - III go?"

When Lucas made Star Wars, he was already a big name director--having a theatrical hit with "American Graffitti"--so every actor already knew who he was. Plus, Sir Alec Guiness (Obi-Wan Kenobi) was a very well established actor at the time, as was James Earl Jones, and Peter Cushing (Grand Moff Tarkin), not to mention that Carrie Fisher came from famous parents (Debbie Reynolds and singer Eddie Fisher).

Yes, I know too much trivial crap............ :rolleyes:

[Blennidae]

On a slightly positive note, has anyone seen it at a digital projection theater? It does make a difference in picture quality.

[Blennidae]

From the very first showing of Star Wars, in 1977, it had "Episode IV: A New Hope" in the beginning scroll. This had a lot of people confused and asking, "Where did episodes I - III go?"

Yes, I know too much trivial crap............ :rolleyes:

That is WRONG. The first release did NOT have episode IV in the scroll.

[Vex]

On a slightly positive note, has anyone seen it at a digital projection theater? It does make a difference in picture quality.
Lucky you. I don't think that one will come to Arkansas in the near future. Unless it's used to show you how to skin a deer or put muddin' tires on your truck...

[Jakedubbleya]

Do we honestly want to sit down and watch multitudes of needless episodes or five hour movies just to get certain points across? Sit back and enjoy!

yeah, we all hate a good drama here, taxi, 12 angry men, rear window... begone ye horrible films!

:rolleyes:

and no, i wasnt going to read a whole thread on how star wars does or does not suck, i just came across this while laughing at some of steelrats original observations.

oh, and apparently you have to be a dyed in the force star wars nerd to understand this movie.

thus, it sucks.

[SlartyBartFast]

That is WRONG. The first release did NOT have episode IV in the scroll.

True enough. The original became episode IV after Luca decided to call Empire episode V.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/cut_scenes/trash_compactor/missing_episode.htm

[Vendetta]

True enough. The original became episode IV after Luca decided to call Empire episode V.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/cut_scenes/trash_compactor/missing_episode.htm


Thank you for confirming.

[Vex]

Thank you for confirming.
I second that, as I stand corrected.

But even in 1981, 24 years ago, Lucas had his six-movie vision, and began to make it come true. :headbang:

[aaron_mag]

Didn't read all of this. But Steelrat is absolutely right. Too many inconsistencies. Too many cheap slapstick humor with R2D2 beating up a bunch of droids (I'll bet they wish he had rockets in episodes 4 to 6 ;) ).

The only benefit to Lucas making these movies was getting to see Natalie Portman in various exotic outfits. Other than that it all sucked (and he made lots of money).

[Vendetta]

I'm probably going to go out on a limb here because The Empire Strikes Back was so good, but I think should all have stoped at Star Wars (I refuse to call it Episode 4). The movie was perfect the way it was. Everything else may have brought Lucas great wealth, but I think it sucked the soul out of the original movie.

[aaron_mag]

I'm probably going to go out on a limb here because The Empire Strikes Back was so good, but I think should all have stoped at Star Wars (I refuse to call it Episode 4). The movie was perfect the way it was. Everything else may have brought Lucas great wealth, but I think it sucked the soul out of the original movie.

Return of the Jedi wasn't *that* bad. Yeah...it had the Ewoks, but the lightsaber fight on the bridge of the Death Star had good tension. Note that there is no tension in the entire prequel series.

The original movies could have been good too...but they ended up sucking.