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View Full Version : Rt Co2


Adamk58
06-02-2005, 09:21 AM
everybody says you cant run co2 through an RT valve, but Ive been doin it for years. Id like for someone to explain to me why people say its bad for the gun. I dont get it.
maxama10
06-02-2005, 10:27 AM
i really dont know... :confused:
Dayspring
06-02-2005, 10:37 AM
Because at the rate that the RT valve recharges, it will suck liquid CO2 into the valve before it has a chance to phase change into a gas and flood it. The orings were not designed for CO2 and will crack and leak.
trains are bad
06-02-2005, 01:10 PM
You can run CO2 through an RT valve.

You can smear yourself with catfish bait and jump into the shark tank at the zoo, too.

The issue here is not whether you CAN or not....it's, why would you want to.

The core of the problem is that the RT wants an input of 800ish psi. CO2, in a marker size tank/setup just cannot provide it at high rates of fire even if you could keep all the liquid out. I regularly hook my xvalve via remote to a non-siphon bulk tank of CO2 for testing and troubleshooting purposes. I haven't had it apart in over a year and it's going strong.

There is nothing magical about CO2. But it will NOT power an RT valve succesfully. Trust me. I don't even think CO2 powers classic valves satisfactorily.
goforbroke
06-02-2005, 04:22 PM
Because at the rate that the RT valve recharges, it will suck liquid CO2 into the valve before it has a chance to phase change into a gas and flood it. The orings were not designed for CO2 and will crack and leak.

Not only is this true but i heard from the person that gave me my rt that rt's use left over gas (or something like that) to push the trigger forward again after each shot, and CO2 is not able to do this.
Dayspring
06-03-2005, 08:39 AM
Not true at all.

A classic mag and RT mag BOTH reset the trigger by using gas to push the on/off pin down into the sear. The classic mag uses regulated air to do it (~450-psi) and the RT does it with 800+psi. That's the RT kick you feel. They changed the air routing in the gun to recharge so quickly, the RT kick was a side-effect of this new air path in the valve.



Not only is this true but i heard from the person that gave me my rt that rt's use left over gas (or something like that) to push the trigger forward again after each shot, and CO2 is not able to do this.
Jaan
06-03-2005, 10:25 AM
Not only is this true but i heard from the person that gave me my rt that rt's use left over gas (or something like that) to push the trigger forward again after each shot, and CO2 is not able to do this.
Yessss ... I seem to remember something about the RT standing for "Reactive Trigger" ...
Dayspring
06-03-2005, 11:05 AM
Both the classic and RT valves use air to reset the trigger. The reason for the RT kick is that the RT valves use twice the amount of pressure to reset the trigger than the classic does.

Has nothing to do with CO2 being able to do it or not.
agdkicks
06-03-2005, 05:32 PM
Yessss ... I seem to remember something about the RT standing for "Reactive Trigger" ...

rt as in rt pro or rt valve does not stand for reactive trigger, it means "retro valve", your thinking like the tippmann rt
Jaan
06-03-2005, 08:33 PM
rt as in rt pro or rt valve does not stand for reactive trigger, it means "retro valve", your thinking like the tippmann rt
No, I'm thinking this ...

Now if that guy isn't AGG I don't know who is :rolleyes:
Soopa Villain17
06-04-2005, 02:51 PM
so if i have an anti siphon co2 tank, a expansion chamber , and a huge bag of o rings , i can use my co2 tank on my x valve mag when n2 is not avalalbe ?
Dayspring
06-04-2005, 04:05 PM
No.
Soopa Villain17
06-05-2005, 01:49 PM
y ?
monkeyking
06-06-2005, 07:33 AM
Now if that guy isn't AGG I don't know who is :rolleyes:

Ha ha ha! Was that a poster made exclusively for Provincetown paintball fields?

Is the deal with the RT solely that it recharges faster? Obviously, the sear is set using pressure on a Classic, but it, what, resets faster (alongside the recharging of the whole action) because it has 3000 psi going into it?

The Classic I've got (actually, pre-Classic) says that it regulates 3000 psi down, right on the valve. I imagine everything goes on after regulation, though.
Dayspring
06-06-2005, 08:32 AM
The orings in the gun weren't made for CO2, and it doesn't matter how much anti-liquid stuff you put in between the tank and valve, it will take a few shots and then start to freeze up.

Why not take AGD's word on it and NOT use it?


y ?
Soopa Villain17
06-06-2005, 08:44 AM
just wondering thats all
monkeyking
06-06-2005, 10:50 AM
The orings in the gun weren't made for CO2, and it doesn't matter how much anti-liquid stuff you put in between the tank and valve, it will take a few shots and then start to freeze up.

Why not take AGD's word on it and NOT use it?

Because this is the tech forum, and people want to know what makes things work or not.

What makes o-rings "made" for CO2? I'd wager that the o-rings freezing is not due to the o-rings themselves, but rather to the configuration of the gas path.

Obviously, one person here got it to work, so wouldn't it make more sense to ask what conditions make it function? Like living in Florida, or having all sorts of gassifying features on the gun? Or taking one or two shots at a time in woodsball?
Dayspring
06-06-2005, 11:12 AM
The TYPE of oring will make it suited for CO2 or not.
sniper1rfa
06-06-2005, 11:35 AM
It will work - however the RT recharges so fast that the tank will freeze far too fast to use effectively in a game. Think a frozen tank in five to ten shots.


Not only that, but the mag will draw liquid co2, which will cause the velocity to spike, which is dangerous.
Pacifist_Farmer
06-06-2005, 03:31 PM
hmm I have never run CO2 through my RT but this raises a good question.

Do a little research and we see that most Oring materials are ok for both dry and wet CO2.

http://www.marcorubber.com/compatibility.htm

except silicone, which if I'm not mistaken is what we use almost exclusively in Paintball.

Sure one could argue that using PTFE would solve this problem, but the guns were not designed to use PTFE orings and that opens up a whole new world of problems.
Alpha
06-06-2005, 03:47 PM
90 duro poly o-rings anyone?

But you guys gotta remember... Nitro was INVENTED for the automag rt valve. Thats a fact.
Adamk58
06-06-2005, 03:57 PM
The thing is that most people dont use co2 in the gun just because it says not to. Im pretty sure they put that on there because the gun wont run as well on co2, and by "wont run as well" i dont mean that itll crap up all the time and freeze up and what not. I just think it wont shoot as fast and there will probly be a much bigger gap in shot to shot velocity. But my original RT was one of the first ones ever made and it still works to this day, and i have never ran it on anything other than co2.