which devil mag option [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

atm743

06-03-2005, 10:13 PM

really for that much i would jest get an e-mag or if you much have the eyes than an x-mag

i love my e-mag. its fast as hell. rechargible barrery (no the crap 9 volt to they are a good size battery) and soon RRfireblade will put out the new firmware wich has new modes of fire and features.

if i were you i would jest get an stock e-mag with ule frame than build it up to how you like it or find a good deal here on ao or e-bay and then if you have $$ left over buy build your self a mech mag for a back up or whatever you want as a back up

bravecoward

06-03-2005, 10:15 PM

i was orignally going to do that

Fallout-

06-03-2005, 10:16 PM

but i do have a $700 credit bill.Oh well that a bouns if I ever saw one.
Say it with me..... Mehhh Bouns!
:rofl:
Sorry I had to. hope you get you're mag and light me up now.

mandatory

06-03-2005, 10:19 PM

I may do that as well if thid devilmag thing falls through. I just dont really like the battery pack...on second thought i do like the way e/x-mags look. Also they may be making a drop in preditor board for the e-mags, from what i read on the other threads.

WARPED1

06-03-2005, 10:20 PM

While GADevil is a nice guy(met him at last years World Cup), from what I here he doesn't get the guns done quick enough to justify $900. Buy something else like a Proto............

mandatory

06-03-2005, 10:23 PM

the only thing i didnt like about the e/x mag when i tryed one out at AO nor cal vs. socal (i went gunless caus mine wat at devilsden) was that the battery pack was real slippery when my hands started to sweat. couldnt get a good grip on the thing. hopefully after i get my devilmag i will start looking into getting an e-mag and hooking it up.

mandatory

06-03-2005, 10:27 PM

While GADevil is a nice guy(met him at last years World Cup), from what I here he doesn't get the guns done quick enough to justify $900

Thers no question that chris is a cool guy, i mean hes offering a great product and makes mags a force to be recond with, i just think he either overextended himself or has really bad luck with his outside contractors.

Eric Of Extreme Measures

06-03-2005, 10:32 PM

Man i drive Tuna crazy for 3 day priority, and have paid $100 extra just to get things done a day earlier. i would have to be put in a straight jacket over this company or there would be a CNN headline somewhere...

Thats not cool, somewould should say somthing, we have alot of mags here and probably will have a Devil mag for our colletion one day, but i guess used, not from this blub...

Bad Bitness, just bad bitness.

atm743

06-03-2005, 10:46 PM

I Really like the devilmags. i was thinking to my self in getting one a while ago but thats jest too much. i would jest either get a viking or Excalibur.

if they were in the 700-800 range i would consider.

but its up to you.

and with your e-mag pack problem with the slippery hands. i had that problem to but i put a AGD sticker on it (their main symbol thats at the top of their site) and that really helps plus looks really nice. dosent give a plane look to the gun.

but really its up to you. I read really good things on the devilmags and chris. but its what you like in your marker. i love the modes of the devil mag but really theres alot of them and some to me you dont need like the first shots of semi or fullauto and change to an other mode. really all you need is a uncap'd semi with eye's on. capped semi with eyes off. ramping mode. full auto. and your psp and cofa, nppl modes.

I also dont like that idea of choosing the modes by trigger without a screen. i would shoot someone tring to switch mode's :D plus i would get lost.

but like i said its all what you like. But really i cant tell you anything on how they really are because i have never shoot one but from what i read thats what i think of them but i would probibly change what i said if i shoot one.

MadPSIence

06-03-2005, 10:51 PM

for what a devilmag costs.... built a custom mag with e-mag lowers. give Kevin aka. Classicmagger a PM... you could get something VERY sweet for like 700.. and if you're hardcore... you could get a Karta bodied X-mag style custom gun for just over 900.

besides devilsden is backed up for months and hasn't been keeping in contact with customers. I think they just don't have the resource or man power (or something) to keep up with any real demand.

WARPED1

06-03-2005, 10:55 PM

Thers no question that chris is a cool guy, i mean hes offering a great product and makes mags a force to be recond with, i just think he either overextended himself or has really bad luck with his outside contractors.
Well, he is just one guy.... Does he have a helper?

master_alexander

06-03-2005, 11:30 PM

and if you dont feel like getting this, get a pneumag frame, whis is supposedley coming out in august.

if you are willing to wait...

so just get a fixer upper for right now.

WARPED1

06-03-2005, 11:35 PM

and if you dont feel like getting this, get a pneumag frame, whis is supposedley coming out in august.

.
August 2250? Or February 30 2006?

atm743

06-04-2005, 12:01 AM

August 2250? Or February 30 2006?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

sorry couldn't resist.

but really when is it going to come out??

is there any new news in RR's thread??

sorry to get off topic

indulgence

06-04-2005, 02:13 AM

Whatever you order, ORDER NOW! if you don't, everyday you wait before your order is equal to 10 days after you order.

master_alexander

06-04-2005, 03:15 AM

August 2250? Or February 30 2006?

last i was reading it was late august/september and possibly in november. where did you get february from? and if i was meaning in 2250, i would have said it, otherwise it generally means the coming up august. :D

you know you could do alot with $900 as well...

NASurfer

06-04-2005, 04:42 AM

why not getting a used emag here on AO (that aliens8mydad guy had a hella of a deal), then getting on the preorder list for the predator board drop in upgrade. you'll save a little money, and you'll have the option of switching to mech if the electro breaks down.

Lohman446

06-04-2005, 06:15 AM

When I made a list of issues that it would take to bring me back to a mag after I had gotten rid of my E and picked up a Shocker the Devilmag filled 90% of them. I decided to try it. When I get it, I'll let you know, maybe the end of this month

http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AoMi.gif

nt2004

06-04-2005, 08:11 AM

Bad Bitness, just bad bitness.
quoted for truth

mags247

06-04-2005, 08:44 AM

nt2004

06-04-2005, 09:27 AM

The Vid for the Devil mag looks awesome. If you believe in Social Security, Santa and the Easter Bunny go ahead and order one.

I just bought another shocker 05 vision with ramping nerve board for 705 shipped. On my door in 3 days. It is Silver. Despite what others say the build quality is quite good. It feels like a solid piece of milled alluminum.

BTW it mows mad muppets.
you do have a point. I regret my purchase and I'm trying to sell it now. I should have just bought a proto in the first place, which is actually what I'm doing now. Yeah!

WARPED1

06-04-2005, 09:34 AM

last i was reading it was late august/september and possibly in november. where did you get february from? and if i was meaning in 2250, i would have said it, otherwise it generally means the coming up august. :D

you know you could do alot with $900 as well...
I bet you a new Proto to find Feb 30 on any real gregorian calender! I'll PM you my shipping address......................

nt2004

06-04-2005, 10:16 AM

how bout this?
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/February+30th
or this
http://hem.fyristorg.com/hok/lee/calender.htm#30 days

can I have a proto now? :D

tdogreb

06-04-2005, 10:22 AM

Lohman446

06-04-2005, 10:50 AM

Lets say this:

If you order a DevilMag you are ordering it on a its done when its done basis with no promises to a timeline

If you are ok with that than order one, I think it will be worth it. If you are not... then don't

WARPED1

06-04-2005, 12:24 PM

how bout this?
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/February+30th
or this
http://hem.fyristorg.com/hok/lee/calender.htm#30 days

can I have a proto now? :D
I said a real calender, not a joke, like I have made..........

nt2004

06-04-2005, 03:30 PM

I said a real calender, not a joke, like I have made..........
doesnt matter, i have a proto now anyways :D

WARPED1

06-04-2005, 03:37 PM

doesnt matter, i have a proto now anyways :D
Smart move! Enjoy mowing muppets or ripping faces or whatever crap PBN is spewing out this week.
Anyway, back to the thread previously scheduled. What boards are going in DMags again? Some kind of Predator?

mandatory

06-04-2005, 03:59 PM

Snorkie

06-04-2005, 05:55 PM

hey nt2004, are you trying to sell you devilmag befor you get ity??? i may want to do the same thing. get this bad taste out of my mouth. I wonder if i could sell my devilmag and have chris send it to the person who buys it???? i knd of want the devilmag though...at least for a little while....god nows what will happen if uit breraks down the line...another 3-months to get it fixed???
yeah I'm trying to. I made a bad decision buying it and my new proto just flat out owns all so I'm attempting to sell it. Let me tell you, these things aint easy to push

nt2004

06-04-2005, 07:06 PM

oops i just now realized I posted under my friend's name

mandatory

06-04-2005, 10:29 PM

This is the problem with people today. They order a custom built product, then expect the thing on their doorstep the next day. Try ordering a custom built car from one of the big three and see if you get it the next day or 3 months later. Good luck with that and they have unlimited resources. If you read the devil mag thread you will see why Chris quit answering Mandatory's e-mails, and some of the others, they're just asking how much longer is it going to be, over and over, 7 days a week. So if you want a devil mag expect a wait for it. If you want the ultimate mag ,order a devil mag today. If you just want a fast gun and you want it now, get the flavor of the month.

the problem is, is that i did not know that it was going to be like this when i bought purchased the gun back on march 2nd. I purchased it under the assumption that "it could be done for AO day on April 1st-3erd"., as we got closer to april 1st it became apparent that it would not be done by then. i was bummed but what ever.i went gunless to AO day and played a total of 1 and a half games.(mostly due to my shyness and not lack of spare guns.) I got back and asked chris if it might be done by a April 9th tournament and he said if all goes well maybe. I was amped. I entered the tourny. come the week befor it becomes appaent that it will not be done so i scramble and buy a used 2003 impulse w/o eyes just in the nic of time to play. the gun died mid way through the last game after i dove into the snake. nocked the noid gasket loose. i was happy though. we placed 3rd. my best finish yet.a few weeks passed and the frames were supposedly back from the machienist. Now it seemed we were waiting for more preditor boards. i e-mailed chris the following week on may 12th and he responded on may 13th..."if all goes right we will have more preditor II boards in 3 weeks. maybe" that is the last contact i have had with him. I havent played since the tourny on aprl 9th. Im going on vacation next week to the east coast to skimboard in a few contests. hopefully it will take my mind off of the paintball situation for a while. give you guys a break from me....ha ha. But honestly its not a big deal to me. Paintball is a secondary or even 3rd level priority in my life right now. It may change as i save money over summer but, to tell you the truth i cant afford to play right now. Im just on here looking after that $700 investment I made some 3 months ago, as well as learning more about the sport in general. and meeting some cool people. Im not trying to be nagging or anything, I just want people to know where im comming from. I hope this sheds some light onto my situation, for some people assumed I knew things when i didn't.

mandatory

06-04-2005, 10:33 PM

Oh yeah...thats basicly my whole paintball carreer right there summed up. excepet for one 3 man a few weeks befor the april 9th tourny. I used my ule, x-valved mech mag in a feb 26th tourny and then immeadatly sent my gun to chris on march 2nd. befor that i had only played 3 or 4 times. so im real new to paintball, but that doesnt mean i can be taken advantage of.

WARPED1

06-05-2005, 01:58 AM

I wonder if TAG's DIY drop in Predator board, with eye logic, will put Chris out of business?

mags247

06-05-2005, 11:23 AM

I wonder if TAG's DIY drop in Predator board, with eye logic, will put Chris out of business?

I wish that AGD would just work out a deal with Tag and get it out on their own. Never gonna happen though.

PaintDiddy

06-08-2005, 07:57 AM

hey nt2004, are you trying to sell you devilmag befor you get ity??? i may want to do the same thing. get this bad taste out of my mouth. I wonder if i could sell my devilmag and have chris send it to the person who buys it????

I saw the devilsden website, so you cant get refunds even if you havent received the product? thats not cool .

Lohman446

06-08-2005, 08:11 AM

I saw the devilsden website, so you cant get refunds even if you havent received the product? thats not cool .

Its a custom job done on time and materials. Chris starts getting all the materials together for you when you order, so he uses the money for that. As with any custom job you are responsible for the time and materials he has into it, and you are paying for the finished product. Yes you pay up front. This is normal under customer work - some of us were spoiled by AGDs X-mag system where you ordered on your word and then paid (or however the system went) or declined it later. Chris is doing this as any custom job is normally done and these practices are common, and just part of custom work. Having a firm price up front is not common in custom work, so be thankful for that, many custom shops would have charged more because of the unforeseen problems that have come up. Chris is not doing anything abnormal here.

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http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AOIAO.jpg

nt2004

06-08-2005, 08:29 AM

I saw the devilsden website, so you cant get refunds even if you havent received the product? thats not cool .
dont even get me started on that. I asked for a refund because I never received a product or a time frame really, and he simply said no and started ignoring all my emails. Thats great business :rolleyes:

nt2004

06-08-2005, 08:32 AM

Its a custom job done on time and materials. Chris starts getting all the materials together for you when you order, so he uses the money for that. As with any custom job you are responsible for the time and materials he has into it, and you are paying for the finished product. Yes you pay up front. This is normal under customer work - some of us were spoiled by AGDs X-mag system where you ordered on your word and then paid (or however the system went) or declined it later. Chris is doing this as any custom job is normally done and these practices are common, and just part of custom work. Having a firm price up front is not common in custom work, so be thankful for that, many custom shops would have charged more because of the unforeseen problems that have come up. Chris is not doing anything abnormal here.

If he was smart, we would have treated this like a preorder list. You shoulnt charge people if you dont have a product and have no clue when you will get them made. Chris has so many processes out of his control and he knows that. So how could he possibly think what he is doing is a good idea?

Lohman446

06-08-2005, 09:07 AM

If he was smart, we would have treated this like a preorder list. You shoulnt charge people if you dont have a product and have no clue when you will get them made. Chris has so many processes out of his control and he knows that. So how could he possibly think what he is doing is a good idea?

I agree that treating it like a preorder list would have been nice. However, lets look at it from Chris view point. He likely did not have the capital to self finance this (if you think he's making a lot per marker I don't expect your right). People wanted this, he was willing to do it, however it required payment in advance. Granted things have gone much worse than anyone expected, but I do not see any other way that Chris could have done this. When AGD did the X-mags... well they had the capital to finance, and knew they could sell them if some people backed out. Chris did not have this luxury, and had to do it this way. At least in my opinion

__________________________________________
http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AOIAO.jpg

nt2004

06-08-2005, 10:09 AM

I agree that treating it like a preorder list would have been nice. However, lets look at it from Chris view point. He likely did not have the capital to self finance this (if you think he's making a lot per marker I don't expect your right). People wanted this, he was willing to do it, however it required payment in advance. Granted things have gone much worse than anyone expected, but I do not see any other way that Chris could have done this. When AGD did the X-mags... well they had the capital to finance, and knew they could sell them if some people backed out. Chris did not have this luxury, and had to do it this way. At least in my opinion

If he couldnt afford to take the risk of a preordered first batch, then he had no business making the frames in the first place. If you dont have the money and the ability to deal with numerous customers and give them real answers, then you shouldnt be in this business. He made some bad choices and he isnt dealing with them at all, he's ignoring them and that frustrates me much more than any wait time.

SCpoloRicker

06-08-2005, 10:14 AM

Whining on one thread wasn't enough for you two?

Lohman446

06-08-2005, 10:22 AM

If he couldnt afford to take the risk of a preordered first batch, then he had no business making the frames in the first place. If you dont have the money and the ability to deal with numerous customers and give them real answers, then you shouldnt be in this business. He made some bad choices and he isnt dealing with them at all, he's ignoring them and that frustrates me much more than any wait time.

Noone else was taking the risk to produce them without payment up front. Chris would not have started the attempt if there had been. While I agree the wait time has been frustrating it is something all of us should have expected (and few of us did) with a custom job of any type. I cannot speak for anyone else here, but Chris has kept open all lines of communication with me, even when I have been less than positive. Is the wait more than any of us, including Chris, every anticipated? Yes it has been, but I beleive Chris has made every reasonable effort to get these done for us. I understand your frustration, at least part of them... but I do make an effort to understand that Chris is doing everything he can, within reason, to get this done.

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http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AOIAO.jpg

Asym

06-08-2005, 10:30 AM

However, lets look at it from Chris view point.

When Chris didn't hear anything from the machinest he wasn't too happy either and was fairly irate and even talked about making a trip up to see him. I understand there have been major problems throughout the process of making the Devilmag, but Chris is now doing the same things those suppliers did to him lack of communication. Yes I do understand it does take time away from building the mags to answer emails but if he would just give updates somewhere be it on his official thread here, his website or forums we wouldn't be wondering.

I'm on the list also and supposed to be in the first batch. I never heard anything from Chris that boards were on backorder, only people posting here on AO have said this so I have no idea if its true at all. So all we see are these rumors that people post on the forums. Last email I recieved was that the frames in the first batch were back from ano and were being cleaned up, which was about a week and a half ago.

nt2004

06-08-2005, 11:07 AM

my point is that he should have only done one batch, and did it as a preorder. I'm guessing most of the cost in these frames lies in the pred II boards. He could have went through the whole machining process and worked out all the kinks with the machinists, etc. THen once everything was figured out machining wise and once all the frames were in, then he could have started approving payments and could have started receiving guns for anno and for eye drilling and all that good stuff. This would have been a better choice because if anyone decided to drop out, he'd only be stuck with a raw frame, no internals or gun or anything, just an easily sold raw frame. He wouldnt have had to pruchase anything in terms of boards or AGD parts until he knew he had the frames ready to be assembled and sold.

Chris seems like he was no where near being ready for such a large undertaking. He's gotten way too ahead of himself and now we have to pay for his mistakes? Sounds like bad business to me and I'm sick of it

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 11:43 AM

dont even get me started on that. I asked for a refund because I never received a product or a time frame really, and he simply said no and started ignoring all my emails. Thats great business :rolleyes:
Call the better business bereau, thats bad. As nice a guy as Chris was. You canmnot do business like that!

______________________________________

http://www.members.shaw.ca/Chance_K_J/SPA/minibanner2.gif

nt2004

06-08-2005, 12:34 PM

i should, this is ridiculous

PaintDiddy

06-08-2005, 01:13 PM

There are definately 2 sides to an arguement here. Yes, we all know all about how custom work is such a royal pain in the butt. But theres also such a thing as good business manners too. I dont doubt hes a great guy, and Im sure the finished product is great. But as a good business gesture, it would be nice that those that ordered annoed/ unannoed bolt on frames (you know the things that aren't made custom to a specific person), be issued their money back so people can move on. Chris can easily resell them to anyone else.

I guess he is covered by that disclaimer at the bottom of his website, but I think it would be a good business gesture and it would solve this fiasco between customer and small business owner. If that devilmag rips, which Im sure it does and from the field reports, it sounds like it does, chris will sell them out fast anyway when they are produced.

frop

06-08-2005, 01:43 PM

Call the better business bereau, thats bad. As nice a guy as Chris was. You canmnot do business like that!

What's BBB gonna do? Tell him to fix it or they'll call him a bad boy?

teufelhunden

06-08-2005, 01:47 PM

I don't see the DevilMag as being custom work. When one can go onto a website, and in 4 clicks order a DevilMag, it isn't custom. Custom would've been one guy approaching Chris and saying "hey, put this board in this frame with these eyes".. not Chris coming to the market saying "Hey, look what I have, give me money and I'll give you one"

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 02:00 PM

What's BBB gonna do? Tell him to fix it or they'll call him a bad boy?
Make him refund money then close him down for bad business...............

I don't see the DevilMag as being custom work. When one can go onto a website, and in 4 clicks order a DevilMag, it isn't custom. Custom would've been one guy approaching Chris and saying "hey, put this board in this frame with these eyes".. not Chris coming to the market saying "Hey, look what I have, give me money and I'll give you one"
You are correct, Devilsden is not custom, he's a small business. Now Doc, is a custom shop, or Punishers Customs.

Lohman446

06-08-2005, 02:03 PM

Make him refund money then close him down for bad business...............

In MI the BBB has almost zero power... not sure how that varies but they are a joke up here. That being said... I still think that Chris is doing everything he can to get us these as quickly as he can. There have been snags that many of us should have seen and others that none of us could have seen. I commend Chris for the effort he puts into this, even if I don't like the wait.

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http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AOIAO.jpg

PaintDiddy

06-08-2005, 02:12 PM

In MI the BBB has almost zero power... not sure how that varies but they are a joke up here. That being said... I still think that Chris is doing everything he can to get us these as quickly as he can. There have been snags that many of us should have seen and others that none of us could have seen. I commend Chris for the effort he puts into this, even if I don't like the wait.

Well some people are in different situations then others, to some the wait is not a big deal. Some others actually have not been able to play over the last few months (no, im not one of them). I think there should be an "out" for those that just want to move on.
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Lohman446

06-08-2005, 02:15 PM

Well some people are in different situations then others, to some the wait is not a big deal. Some others actually have not been able to play over the last few months (no, im not one of them). I think there should be an "out" for those that just want to move on.

It would be nice... I agree with that. However, what would be nice and what is possible may be two different things. I think Chris has already outlayed the capital in parts and ordering parts... and it may not be available to simply refund.

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http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AOIAO.jpg

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 02:19 PM

The long wait is not the issue I think. It's the refusal to refund money.

CoolHand

06-08-2005, 02:20 PM

I gotta say this, so bear with me here.

Is it taking a long time? Yes.

Did you all know this up front? Probably not.

Should you have expected it? Certainly.

This is a story that plays out over and over and over again in paintball, yet no one ever learns the lesson. Happened to me. I learned my lesson. You don't see my stuff going on preorder anymore, do you? Chirs has learned his lesson too, I guarantee it. He just has to fix the mess he's already in.

If he has got all his money tied up in these things, I can see why he won't refund your money. If he does, his business goes belly up, and he is left broke, with a bunch of half finished markers that he can't sell until he finds more thousands to put into them.

Chris should not have to go out of business because you guys changed your minds or lost your patience.

And yes, this is custom work. Anything that is done in quantites of less than 500 (hell in this case I'd bet its way less than 100), and has never been done before (which this hasn't), is custom.

nt2004

06-08-2005, 03:05 PM

Chirs has learned his lesson too, I guarantee it. He just has to fix the mess he's already in.

I still dont see why the consumer has to pay for his mistakes. If he cant deliver and he tied up all our money, then it should come out of his pocket. I personally ordered just a bolt on unanno'd so how difficult do you think it would be for him to resell it? Its not much of a "custom" order if you ask me

CoolHand

06-08-2005, 03:43 PM

I still dont see why the consumer has to pay for his mistakes. If he cant deliver and he tied up all our money, then it should come out of his pocket. I personally ordered just a bolt on unanno'd so how difficult do you think it would be for him to resell it? Its not much of a "custom" order if you ask me

No, see this is where you are wrong.

You all (mag users in general) were dieing for a good electro frame, but no one wanted to make one ('cause there wasn't enough money in it to justify all the trouble).

Chris stepped up as said he'd do it. You all knew up front that this project:

A) Had never been done before (at least not well).
B) Was being done on a shoestring by a new company. (Lets be honest here, anything from an AO dealer is done on a shoestring, be it Tuna, Rogue, Me, Luke, GADevil, or whoever)
C) Didn't have enough interest for anyone else to do it. (only through concentrated begging was Chris talked into doing it)
D) Would be high dollar, and long wait. (Don't say you thought a made from scratch add on part done in runs shorter than 100 and hand assembled one at a time (by the same guy) would be done quickly, and for not a lot of money)

If you think that it should be high quality, built fast, and sold cheap, you are mistaken. If you would call these parts production run stuff, you are mistaken. I cannot help that. Just because you think it, does not mean it is correct.

Ever wonder why no one wants to do these projects that "everyone" wants? Its because only about 0.5% of the folks who jump up and down will have the patience to see the project through. So that when someone does go to the trouble to give you exactly what you want, you all turn on them, and this sort of thing is the result.

It seems nearly all of you want the parts you want, when you want them, in the time frame you want them in, from a small business that will take care of you, but for the price that a giant like NPS could do them for. Those things are mutually exclusive, and you need to realize it. Untill you do, IMO, you all deserve not to have the parts you want made, because its just not worth the hassle.

Chris gave you all exactly what you asked for, and if he's lucky, he won't go out of busines for his trouble.

rkjunior303

06-08-2005, 03:47 PM

Make him refund money then close him down for bad business...............

You are correct, Devilsden is not custom, he's a small business. Now Doc, is a custom shop, or Punishers Customs.

..or Destructive ;)

SCpoloRicker

06-08-2005, 04:01 PM

Whining on one thread wasn't enough for you two?

/thought it was worth repeating

PaintDiddy

06-08-2005, 04:04 PM

It seems nearly all of you want the parts you want, when you want them, in the time frame you want them in, from a small business that will take care of you, but for the price that a giant like NPS could do them for. Those things are mutually exclusive, and you need to realize it. Untill you do, IMO, you all deserve not to have the parts you want made, because its just not worth the hassle.

I dont think anyone ever thought that what Chris was doing was easy. As far as unrealistic expectations go, waiting a few months with darn near no communication is not the same as expecting something on your door 3 days after you order it. I mean we got some kids here having there parents telling them they got scammed. I do say, I think whats going on here is just one bit of bad luck after another for Chris, and he is legitamately trying his best, but any consumer in their right mind would be justifiably outraged. As far as refunds are concerned, I dont think any of us know his money situation, but actual official updates can do alot to ease alot of peoples minds here.

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 04:22 PM

CoolHand

06-08-2005, 04:49 PM

Chris shouldn't have made a website and offered the gun to the general public if he didn't have the money to issue refunds when requested. He made it seem like it was a production run, like lots of guns in a short time. What he should have done is just quietly offer it to a few of his friends at first, build up a buzz. Then get a SBA 7a(thats a guarenteed small business loan) to invest in DevilsDen and start producing them more, even if only like 5 a year! Not like now where it's like 1 in 3 years..........

Yes, that is a good business plan . . . . . . . if you qualify for such things. Not everyone everywhere will.

And, just to be clear, I doubt very seriously that things went down exactly as NTwhatever said they did. I know when I have a dispute with a customer (it doesn't happen often, but it does happen), the side they tell the forum is generally not even close to what actually happened. For some reason when people post about their bad deals, they think they need to make it sound worse than it really was. Mostly, I guess, this comes from them being mad, and wanting to make the biggest dent they can, but seriously folks, you gotta tell the whole story.

I don't know the details of their dealings (and really I don't want to know), but I can tell you that if I am doing a custom job for someone, there is no backing out after I have sourced the parts and started the work. That's just the way it goes. I am not willing to eat a half pink half yellow shocker with a DM5 board just because the person changed their mind. You try moving a monstrosity like that, when the only person in the world who thought it was cool already changed their mind. No thank you.

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 05:13 PM

a half pink half yellow shocker with a DM5 board just because the person changed their mind. ROFLMFAO! Oh my god, did you really make one of those?

CoolHand

06-08-2005, 05:24 PM

ROFLMFAO! Oh my god, did you really make one of those?

No, I didn't. I had a kid ask for one, but before we could set the deal up he changed his mind . . . . . . three times. I ended up just telling him to take a hike, because I could see the hand writing on the wall. It was going to end badly, for both of us.

That's the sort of mind I'm getting towards most Mag products now too. Its far too much trouble for the minimal return I get. All the BS from AO, and the horrible luck (which seems only to attack Mag products for some reason ;) ) has forced me to look elsewhere for customers.

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 05:29 PM

No, I didn't. I had a kid ask for one, but before we could set the deal up he changed his mind . . . . . . three times. I ended up just telling him to take a hike, because I could see the hand writing on the wall. It was going to end badly, for both of us.

That's the sort of mind I'm getting towards most Mag products now too. Its far too much trouble for the minimal return I get. All the BS from AO, and the horrible luck (which seems only to attack Mag products for some reason ;) ) has forced me to look elsewhere for customers.
Make some Ion stuff too! There's 3 bodies out(besides the plastic ones.)
Team Strange body(coming soon)= $149
FBM Kage= $110
Deadlywind Foehn= $99
Coolhands_______= $??

KRAKMT

06-08-2005, 05:48 PM

Pretty sure that GADevil was hinting about is irritation about AO consumers 4 months ago. Doc got sick of his customers berating him on his boards. And I got the impression the xmag caused a bit of similar strife. Looks to me like the message board electronic world might be a little counter productive.
I doubt it would be any different if the product were released on a different message board. Coolhand- I am curious to track the hypothesis- let us know when you are posting a new product release on another message board. I was reading about the evo bolt for the freestyle or gearing up and then failure- people were down right pissed that someone tried and failed. It’s the end of the world if someone doesn't get immediate gratification.

I had planned on buying the Devilframe- and have just collected all the parts. But need to buy an interim marker first (hence the FS/proto research). Once that is done this week and the dallara/hypermag is sold or parted out. I will probably be willing to buy someone’s spot.

If you are not happy- sell your spot and move on but don't make it a colossal issue. Make a decision and try to remain civil.

No, I didn't. I had a kid ask for one, but before we could set the deal up he changed his mind . . . . . . three times. I ended up just telling him to take a hike, because I could see the hand writing on the wall. It was going to end badly, for both of us.

That's the sort of mind I'm getting towards most Mag products now too. Its far too much trouble for the minimal return I get. All the BS from AO, and the horrible luck (which seems only to attack Mag products for some reason ;) ) has forced me to look elsewhere for customers.

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 05:54 PM

I'm curious to see how TAG's drop in Emag board with eye logic is going to drive the Devilmag off the face of the earth or not, we'll see.

KRAKMT

06-08-2005, 06:02 PM

Don't think it will make that much difference. I would be curious to see GADevils numbers but I suspect the draw was for the new frame and eyes. People want a verticle egrip that is better than the hyper. The emag still will need eye drilling and hopefully the devilmag gripframe will feel better.

I'm curious to see how TAG's drop in Emag board with eye logic is going to drive the Devilmag off the face of the earth or not, we'll see.

CoolHand

06-08-2005, 06:21 PM

Make some Ion stuff too! There's 3 bodies out(besides the plastic ones.)
Team Strange body(coming soon)= $149
FBM Kage= $110
Deadlywind Foehn= $99
Coolhands_______= $??

Yeah, you know I am looking real serious like at doing an ION frame/trigger combo that will help with the 'Meh' type trigger feel that the ION is plagued with.

But, we won't be doing it if I can't hit a certain $$$ mark. Just gots to see what I can come up with.

As always, stay tuned. :ninja:

nt2004

06-08-2005, 06:26 PM

Just for the record, i never begged for an electro frame to come out at all. I went to his website about 6-7 motnhs after he started this service and ordered a bolt of frame. I never begged for custom frames, I just went with what he said was available.

And, just to be clear, I doubt very seriously that things went down exactly as NTwhatever said they did.
I'll make this real clear. Heres what happened with no embellishment.
1. I ordered a bolt on, unanno'd frame
2. Waited 3 months
3. After much frustration, I sent one email requesting a refund
4. He said no, simple as that.
5. I sent another email trying to reason with him/ask why
6. He never responded.
7. Sent him a PM to see if he ever received my email
8. Never responded
9. By now my dad thinks I got scammed, I can't convince him otherwise so he sends an email asking why I cant get the refund
10. GA Devil sends me a pm saying I'll get the frame as promised but he'll give no refund.
11. I tell him I rather not receive it, and ask if I can just sell my place in line.
12. Never responds
13. My dad still thinks I got scammed, emails him once again.
14. Never responds

Now i just gave up and bought a proto. I doubt he will ever send me a frame and if he does, I bet it wont be for a long long time. So here you go, thats EXACTLY what happened. Go ahead and judge it on that

WARPED1

06-08-2005, 07:13 PM

Just for the record, i never begged for an electro frame to come out at all. I went to his website about 6-7 motnhs after he started this service and ordered a bolt of frame. I never begged for custom frames, I just went with what he said was available.

I'll make this real clear. Heres what happened with no embellishment.
1. I ordered a bolt on, unanno'd frame
2. Waited 3 months
3. After much frustration, I sent one email requesting a refund
4. He said no, simple as that.
5. I sent another email trying to reason with him/ask why
6. He never responded.
7. Sent him a PM to see if he ever received my email
8. Never responded
9. By now my dad thinks I got scammed, I can't convince him otherwise so he sends an email asking why I cant get the refund
10. GA Devil sends me a pm saying I'll get the frame as promised but he'll give no refund.
11. I tell him I rather not receive it, and ask if I can just sell my place in line.
12. Never responds
13. My dad still thinks I got scammed, emails him once again.
14. Never responds

Now i just gave up and bought a proto. I doubt he will ever send me a frame and if he does, I bet it wont be for a long long time. So here you go, thats EXACTLY what happened. Go ahead and judge it on that
No offense to Chris/GADevil, but I hope he never sells another item ever. That just sucks.

smilestyler

06-08-2005, 07:33 PM

I'm afraid that I have a hard time feeling sorry for you guys. I've been in your shoes, and waiting truly sucks. But on the other hand, as said before again and again, custom stuff takes time. Try ordering a Tunamag. It's no different! And those are from all premade parts.
If you can't weather the wait because you don't have other guns, or you can't afford to have money tied up in these things, don't order them. It was very obvious to me when GADevil started making these, that they were going to come with a long wait. I looked into buying one myself, so I know that he didn't misrepresent that fact. I would suggest that now that you have ordered them, buckle down and wait it out. If you really don't want these thing, you will undoubtedly be able to sell them for more than you paid anyhow.

nt2004

06-08-2005, 07:41 PM

SCpoloRicker

06-08-2005, 07:43 PM

http://www.ncaabbs.com/funnies/general/wahmbulance.jpg

/waiting too ;)

smilestyler

06-08-2005, 11:13 PM

Its not just the wait, its the uncertainty of if you'll ever receive it. He has so many process out of his control that it makes you wonder if he is even going to be able to build the frames

He's not going to screw you over. It may seem hard to believe cause you've got nothing to show for the money you spent.
Look at it this way, if he's got 25 frames on the go right now, do you think he's going to be able to screw over 24 other people? Not likely. It wouldn't take long to lynch the guy.
Just gotta be patient, it will all be worth it in the end. He will get 'em done.

mandatory

06-09-2005, 03:24 AM

I'm on the list also and supposed to be in the first batch. I never heard anything from Chris that boards were on backorder, only people posting here on AO have said this so I have no idea if its true at all. So all we see are these rumors that people post on the forums. Last email I recieved was that the frames in the first batch were back from ano and were being cleaned up, which was about a week and a half ago.[/QUOTE]

FIRST OFF.
as for.the the "rumor" about the preditor boards being on back order, I recieved an email from chris on may 13th and it went like this.....

"From: "Chris Brooks" <chris@devilsden.tv> View Contact Details View Contact Details
To: "'kendal hanel'" <khanel151@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: question..
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:18:10 -0400

If more the boards come in time yes it will be done. I was told
yesterday it
would be roughly 3 weeks for boards to get in.

Chris Brooks
(Owner)
Devil's Den Paintball
www.devilsden.tv
-----Original Message-----
From: kendal hanel [mailto:khanel151@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:15 PM
To: Chris Brooks
Subject: question..

I have a 5 man tourny comming up on 6/11/05. Any
chance that my gun will be here by then?? I need an
answer because this is a more expencive tournament
than im use to ($200 per player) and I dont want to
pay all that money if im not going to be shooting my
devilmag. I know you cant give us solid answers but in
this situation, unfortunatly, your the deciding factor
in wether I play in this tourny or not. thanks for
your time.

kendal hanel

__________________________________________________
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notice the e-mail I had sent him on the 12th .....??? I try to let him know my exact situation in each e-mail i send him and all i have gotten was vagueness and straight out lies.

SECOND:
Im happy to report that im going on vacation for a week to the east coast for a skim contest, so i will be able to forget this whole ordeal for a while. Depending on how i do in the contest, I may try to comendeer a ride to GAs shop to talk to him in person...see what its like at the shop. hopefully he will be more truthful in person.

LASTLY:
I just want chris, as well as all of yall, to know that I will wait how ever long it takes. I really want this marker. Its will be my first real electro, so im still excited to get it. the wait, although highly under estimated, isnt the bad part. Just be straight forward and truthful with me and i will be happy. :rofl:

mandatory

06-09-2005, 03:41 AM

woooo here's my all time favorite one. he had me hangin on this one.....

From: "Chris Brooks" <chris@devilsden.tv> View Contact Details View Contact Details
To: "'kendal hanel'" <khanel151@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: update?
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:27:45 -0400

Got 2 on my table now and 4 getting ready to ship. Yours is 3 down on
the
shelf of guns in linie to do. Hoping to have it next week.

Chris Brooks
(Owner)
Devil's Den Paintball
www.devilsden.tv
-----Original Message-----
From: kendal hanel [mailto:khanel151@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 2:20 PM
To: Chris Brooks
Subject: RE: update?

how bouts an end of the week report? going down to the
field in mexico to check it out and talk to the
operators there to talk about an AO trip. still gotta
shoot that impulse. fixed it myself though. turned out
to be a leaking noid' gasket, i think. eager to hit
15+ bps though. im only gettin 10-11 out of the impy.
keep up the awsome work. All the guns on the webpage
look great.

kendal

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DaveSM

06-09-2005, 01:12 PM

CoolHand understand pretty well the situation.

I decided to order a DevilMag. I considered that it was a CUSTOM built marker. I read doc's forum everyday so I know what hapenned with him. Customers that weren't abe to wait for their products were getting him down. I ordered my DevilMag knowing it would take a long time to have it. At the moment I have my phantom and my RT ULE mag so I'm not in a hurry to receive this marker. You should have considered the custom part of these markers before ordering them. This year at school I had a machining project. It took us 15 weeks, 12 hours a week to produce a mag body and the jig needed. Each body was on the milling and lathe machine for 3 hours each and we made 4 of these. This is custom job and Chris products are cutsom job also. I ordered a DevilMag beacause I want something different from everyone else. I don't want a timmy of the week or a DM#, I want a really custom mag and Chris offer us this option. Before ordering them I had the idea sleeing and refining for a few months so I know what I want and I know that I will be happy with my DevilMag when I'll get it. I also told Chris on my first e-mail that I would not ask him for a dealline.

warbeak2099

06-09-2005, 03:46 PM

last i was reading it was late august/september and possibly in november. where did you get february from? and if i was meaning in 2250, i would have said it, otherwise it generally means the coming up august. :D

you know you could do alot with $900 as well...

RRFireblade posted on pbnation that the upgrade for mags would come out most likely in January or February of 06.

Rudz

06-09-2005, 04:13 PM

all i can say is every 1 knew that devil mags were backed up from waiting, so if u ordered one every 1 knew u were waiting for a while

mandatory

06-16-2005, 02:20 PM

all i can say is every 1 knew that devil mags were backed up from waiting, so if u ordered one every 1 knew u were waiting for a while

thats compleatly not true. The only reason i ever poasted on here was to contact chris about getting a gun made befor a certin date. befor that i had never heard about the DM or read anything about it. I only went by what chris told me and what the web page said. he said if all goes well he could do it. I took his word. I knew it might take longer than expected. I knew it was gonna be a custome process. I even expected some bumps in the road.I definatly did not know about preievous problems with people offering upgraded mags and was told nothing of the "openended" type of time limit befor i sent my gun in. I did not expect to be ridiculed for following up on my money. I did not expect for chris to shut down communication when things went sour. Are these guns not important to him/you? they sure are to me. I have never had something this unique ever, and probably never will, so every day that im left wondering if im ever going to posess this gun is a day i dont play paintball and a day that paintball becomes less important to me, rather than increasingly important to me. I want this ordeal to end positively so that all of us can reap the bennifits of being part of a "non-big" bussiness type community.`We, the customers get a unique and custome done product, and you the sellers get loyal customers and the ability to make changes in schedual times and have an "openended" type deal. I think a little communication between the two will help the situation immensily. I hope i can stay in this community for my entire paintball expierence because i would reallly like to avoid haveing to switch to factory made fashion guns. :headbang:

SCpoloRicker

06-16-2005, 03:07 PM

FYI:

Mines shipping Monday. :ninja:

http://right-thoughts.us/images/uploads/nelson-haha.gif

Automaggot68

06-16-2005, 03:28 PM

thats compleatly not true. The only reason i ever poasted on here was to contact chris about getting a gun made befor a certin date. befor that i had never heard about the DM or read anything about it. I only went by what chris told me and what the web page said. he said if all goes well he could do it. I took his word. I knew it might take longer than expected. I knew it was gonna be a custome process. I even expected some bumps in the road.I definatly did not know about preievous problems with people offering upgraded mags and was told nothing of the "openended" type of time limit befor i sent my gun in. I did not expect to be ridiculed for following up on my money. I did not expect for chris to shut down communication when things went sour. Are these guns not important to him/you? they sure are to me. I have never had something this unique ever, and probably never will, so every day that im left wondering if im ever going to posess this gun is a day i dont play paintball and a day that paintball becomes less important to me, rather than increasingly important to me. I want this ordeal to end positively so that all of us can reap the bennifits of being part of a "non-big" bussiness type community.`We, the customers get a unique and custome done product, and you the sellers get loyal customers and the ability to make changes in schedual times and have an "openended" type deal. I think a little communication between the two will help the situation immensily. I hope i can stay in this community for my entire paintball expierence because i would reallly like to avoid haveing to switch to factory made fashion guns. :headbang:

Use the spacebar, Luke.

Automaggot68

06-16-2005, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=MadPSIence]for what a devilmag costs.... built a custom mag with e-mag lowers. give Kevin aka. Classicmagger a PM... you could get something VERY sweet for like 700.. and if you're hardcore... you could get a Karta bodied X-mag style custom gun for just over 900.

QUOTE]
I forgot to ask what Karta Body Xmag style means.

Asym

06-16-2005, 03:54 PM

Agree with Mandatory on this one, no we didn't know what we were getting into and "almost" all of us would be fine with the wait if we knew what was going on, ie. communication.

After not hearing from Chris for a while I have been looking around. In Coolhands thread in the dealers section he said that no one has predator boards in at the moment and it looks like all shipments of them are being held off untill after PSP Chicago which is June 22nd-26th. If thats the case, cool I know nothing can be done and I'm waiting on parts. Just hope its not a case like the machinist in KY that was in the hospital that held up the frames for so long and had Chris about to make a roadtrip since he wasn't getting any communication from that machinist.