Fireblade.... No mech mode?

[Emert426]

SO I just hear from tuna that there is no guarantee a Fireblade will work in mech mode(manual)...

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Haha is there no disclaimer? Anyone have this happen to them? Sounds pretty outlandish that a trigger would be sold that wont work in manual mode

[Muzikman]

Since fireblade software seems to be just a firmware upgrade, mechanical mode should work. I would see no reason why not.

[A-Tach-One]

Dang, I am waiting for my Fireblade trigger. I hope mine works. :(

[frop]

Since fireblade software seems to be just a firmware upgrade, mechanical mode should work. I would see no reason why not.

I think he's talking about the trigger, not Fireware.

Makes no sense to me that mech mode would not work. I think I was a CYA statement (no guarantee).

[SpecialBlend2786]

It will work in mech mode.

[Muzikman]

er...sorry I didn't read that right.

Well, does the trigger come with a guarantee that it will work in mechanical mode? If not, then no, it's not guaranteed to work. The tolerances on the trigger are very tight, if they are off just a little the gun will not work in mechanical mode unless you play with the trigger rod, and even then you risk ruining your sear and bolt.

[MonsterMag]

I just got my fireblade yesterday. Well lets just say Its fricking awsome. Its a hair , I can blow on it and it fires. :wow:

Mech works great 2

[Jonno06]

any more info on this fireblade trigger please?

[onedude36]

I think there were 2 batches, the first had mech mode and the other had a hole drilled in the backside to make it tourney legal without removing your trigger rod.

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

maybe you shouldnt have sold the trigger i did for you... ;) then you wouldnt have to deal with this problem

[Emert426]

haha i havent sold it yet bro... I'm thinking about keeping it now.... But I'm so low on cash its really bad

I do love it tho

[BigEvil]

You may have to adjust the trigger rod to get it to work in mech mode. Thats all.

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

yeah and doing that can cause premature sear/bolt wear.

[BigEvil]

yeah and doing that can cause premature sear/bolt wear.


Nada

[Jonno06]

Nada


he said 'CAN'.


i have heard of MANY times when people mess with the trigger rod and have ended up with irregular sear wear.

[RRfireblade]

SO I just hear from tuna that there is no guarantee a Fireblade will work in mech mode(manual)...

Since Tuna has no connection to me or Logic Paintball in anyway, of course he would not 'guarantee' anything having to do with a Fireblade trigger. However I can only make the assumption that he should have the technical ability to make any neccessary adjustments on such a simple thing as the trigger in Mag.

But, regardless of whether he actually has that ability or not...

I guarantee it. Anyone who has "any" problem with a Fireblade trigger can send the marker to me and I'll make sure it functions perfectly....period. Just get the marker to me and consider it done.

Jay. ;)

[Emert426]

^^^^

Good Businessman :cheers:

[CoolHand]

Man oh man do I ever love the doom and gloomers of AO.

You know what guys?

We hold better tolerances with those FireBlades than AGD does with their trigger rod settings. We hold -+0.005" on most dimensions of the trigger. Some places get -+0.002". The holes are reamed and speced to -0.000" +0.001". There is no way that sear assmebly is checked and set for length to those kind of tolerances. And even if it were during original assembly, its not going to say that way once it goes in the bin with the rest of the batch. I mean, its a frigging threaded rod and clevis, which you have to bend to assemble. I'm sure they mic the rod length down to a thou when they snap them onto the sears.

The line between mech mode working correctly with no bounce, and having uber hybrid bounce is so fine that we have to design to the "correct" rod length. Sometimes the trigger rods just come up a fuzz too short (or long) from the factory. Its not hard to lose 0.015" in a thin metal clevis and tiny bent pin connection. One little tweak during assembly, shipping, whatever, and its too short to work exactly like it needs to. AGD's solution is to set it long and just let i bounce. We all know that will get you tossed from a tourney, but it will work every time out of the box.

When you walk the razor's edge for performance, sometimes you have to actually tune and tweak your marker. It comes with the territory.

I have never ever seen an E/XMag that would not work in mech mode with a FireBlade. If it doesn't work the very first time, a half turn to one full turn of the sear rod usually fixes it up just fine (that would be a change in length of ~0.015" - 0.025").

The sears can wear funky ONLY IF THE SEAR ROD IS SO LONG THAT THE SEAR CAN NEVER FULLY RESET. IE, the sear rod is bound up against the back of the trigger so much that the sear is partially tripped at rest.

Since the only issue anyone ever has with the FireBlade is that it doesn't push the sear rod back far enough (IE there is too big of a gap between the back of the trigger and the sear rod) to fire the marker in mech mode, you would need to lengthen the sear rod over ~0.250" (or roughly TEN times as much as you could ever need to fix the problem) to cause any sear issues at all.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if you lengthen the rod ten times as much as you should, you deserve to chip a sear, as you are stupid. There, I said it. Stupidity should hurt.

Like Jay said, if you can't make it work, one of us can. If Tuna doesn't think he can do it, fine, that's his problem. We can. Its a simple thing. One so trivial in fact, that a smart man might surmise that the only reason he would even mention it at all, would be to stir up trouble. . . . . . . .

[Automaggot68]

Man oh man do I ever love the doom and gloomers of AO.

You know what guys?

We hold better tolerances with those FireBlades than AGD does with their trigger rod settings. I mean, its a frigging threaded rod and clevis.

The line between mech working and having hybrid bounce is so fine that sometimes the trigger rods come up a fuzz too short from the factory.

I have never ever seen an E/XMag that would not work in mech mode with a FireBlade. If it doesn't work the very first time, a half to one turn of the sear rod usually fixes it up just fine (that would be a change in length of ~0.015" - 0.025").

The sears can wear funky ONLY IF THE SEAR ROD IS SO LONG THAT THE SEAR CAN NEVER FULLY RESET. IE, the sear rod is bound up against the back of the trigger so much that the sear is partially tripped at rest.

Since the only issue anyone ever has with the FireBlade is that it doesn't push the sear rod far enough (IE there is too big a gap between the back of the trigger and the sear rod) to fire the marker in mech mode, you would need to lengthen the sear rod over ~0.250" (or roughly TEN times as much as you could ever need to fix the problem) to cause any sear issues at all.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if you lengthen the rod ten times as much as you should, you deserve to chip a sear, as you are stupid. There, I said it. Stupidity should hurt.

Like Jay said, if you can't make it work, one of us can. If Tuna doesn't think he can do it, fine, that's his problem. We can. Its a simple thing. One so trivial in fact, that a smart man might surmise that the only reason he would even mention it at all, would be to stir up trouble. . . . . . . .


<3


Did I mention how much i love my Logic Frame?

[A-Tach-One]

Man oh man do I ever love the doom and gloomers of AO.

You know what guys?

We hold better tolerances with those FireBlades than AGD does with their trigger rod settings. We hold -+0.005" on most dimensions of the trigger. Some places get -+0.002". The holes are reamed and speced to -0.000" +0.001". There is no way that sear assmebly is checked and set for length to those kind of tolerances. And even if it were during original assembly, its not going to say that way once it goes in the bin with the rest of the batch. I mean, its a frigging threaded rod and clevis, which you have to bend to assemble. I'm sure they mic the rod length down to a thou when they snap them onto the sears.

The line between mech mode working correctly with no bounce, and having uber hybrid bounce is so fine that we have to design to the "correct" rod length. Sometimes the trigger rods just come up a fuzz too short (or long) from the factory. Its not hard to lose 0.015" in a thin metal clevis and tiny bent pin connection. One little tweak during assembly, shipping, whatever, and its too short to work exactly like it needs to. AGD's solution is to set it long and just let i bounce. We all know that will get you tossed from a tourney, but it will work every time out of the box.

When you walk the razor's edge for performance, sometimes you have to actually tune and tweak your marker. It comes with the territory.

I have never ever seen an E/XMag that would not work in mech mode with a FireBlade. If it doesn't work the very first time, a half turn to one full turn of the sear rod usually fixes it up just fine (that would be a change in length of ~0.015" - 0.025").

The sears can wear funky ONLY IF THE SEAR ROD IS SO LONG THAT THE SEAR CAN NEVER FULLY RESET. IE, the sear rod is bound up against the back of the trigger so much that the sear is partially tripped at rest.

Since the only issue anyone ever has with the FireBlade is that it doesn't push the sear rod back far enough (IE there is too big of a gap between the back of the trigger and the sear rod) to fire the marker in mech mode, you would need to lengthen the sear rod over ~0.250" (or roughly TEN times as much as you could ever need to fix the problem) to cause any sear issues at all.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if you lengthen the rod ten times as much as you should, you deserve to chip a sear, as you are stupid. There, I said it. Stupidity should hurt.

Like Jay said, if you can't make it work, one of us can. If Tuna doesn't think he can do it, fine, that's his problem. We can. Its a simple thing. One so trivial in fact, that a smart man might surmise that the only reason he would even mention it at all, would be to stir up trouble. . . . . . . .

Are you forgeting that some of us are customers and payed the 60.00 w/shipping for your trigger? If one hears news or gossip like this, aren't we allowed to speak about it? I do not beleive I am a doom and gloomer! But thanks

[Emert426]

Didn't mean to start anything guys.... I'm a big fan CoolHand, you do a great job, and I can't wait to get my trigger...

I'm just a new emag user that got a little spooked thats all.....

[magmanl337]

Are you forgeting that some of us are customers and payed the 60.00 w/shipping for your trigger? If one hears news or gossip like this, aren't we allowed to speak about it? I do not beleive I am a doom and gloomer! But thanks
Take my word for it, Jay and Ryan weren't talking about you.

[CoolHand]

Are you forgeting that some of us are customers and payed the 60.00 w/shipping for your trigger? If one hears news or gossip like this, aren't we allowed to speak about it? I do not beleive I am a doom and gloomer! But thanks

No no no.

I wasn't talking about you guys, the customers have every right to be concerned.

I was talking about the people who start these rumors. Its very nearly always the same few, and they know who they are.

That's who I was referring to.

No worries for you guys. :clap:

The ones who deserve the scorn know who they are. :mad:

[Tunaman]

Man oh man do I ever love the doom and gloomers of AO.

You know what guys?

We hold better tolerances with those FireBlades than AGD does with their trigger rod settings. We hold -+0.005" on most dimensions of the trigger. Some places get -+0.002". The holes are reamed and speced to -0.000" +0.001". There is no way that sear assmebly is checked and set for length to those kind of tolerances. And even if it were during original assembly, its not going to say that way once it goes in the bin with the rest of the batch. I mean, its a frigging threaded rod and clevis, which you have to bend to assemble. I'm sure they mic the rod length down to a thou when they snap them onto the sears.

The line between mech mode working correctly with no bounce, and having uber hybrid bounce is so fine that we have to design to the "correct" rod length. Sometimes the trigger rods just come up a fuzz too short (or long) from the factory. Its not hard to lose 0.015" in a thin metal clevis and tiny bent pin connection. One little tweak during assembly, shipping, whatever, and its too short to work exactly like it needs to. AGD's solution is to set it long and just let i bounce. We all know that will get you tossed from a tourney, but it will work every time out of the box.

When you walk the razor's edge for performance, sometimes you have to actually tune and tweak your marker. It comes with the territory.

I have never ever seen an E/XMag that would not work in mech mode with a FireBlade. If it doesn't work the very first time, a half turn to one full turn of the sear rod usually fixes it up just fine (that would be a change in length of ~0.015" - 0.025").

The sears can wear funky ONLY IF THE SEAR ROD IS SO LONG THAT THE SEAR CAN NEVER FULLY RESET. IE, the sear rod is bound up against the back of the trigger so much that the sear is partially tripped at rest.

Since the only issue anyone ever has with the FireBlade is that it doesn't push the sear rod back far enough (IE there is too big of a gap between the back of the trigger and the sear rod) to fire the marker in mech mode, you would need to lengthen the sear rod over ~0.250" (or roughly TEN times as much as you could ever need to fix the problem) to cause any sear issues at all.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if you lengthen the rod ten times as much as you should, you deserve to chip a sear, as you are stupid. There, I said it. Stupidity should hurt.

Like Jay said, if you can't make it work, one of us can. If Tuna doesn't think he can do it, fine, that's his problem. We can. Its a simple thing. One so trivial in fact, that a smart man might surmise that the only reason he would even mention it at all, would be to stir up trouble. . . . . . . .Stir up trouble? Thats absolutely rediculous. My problem is that when i build a custom Emag, my sears all come in pieces...not put together. I set the trigger rod length to 2.125 as per AGD specs. I dont have time to loctite the trigger rod, install The Fireblade, test, find out that it doesnt work, take the gun apart, pick some imaginary sear rod length, re loctite, reassemble, test, find out it doesnt work correctly and start the process all over again. What is the correct trigger rod length for the Fireblade to work correctly anyway? How much does one have to charge to install one of these triggers? 50 bucks? Because thats about how much time it takes to get one right. If all the triggers are the same, Please post the correct trigger rod length that it needs to be so anybody can adjust one. I know its not rocket science, so please let us know.

[tyrion2323]

Okay, now hang on. I highly doubt that Tunaman is going around trying to spread false rumors or bad-mouth products. Let's all just chill out. Having dealt personally with both Tunaman and Coolhand, I know that both guys deliver. Let's keep it at that!

[SpecialBlend2786]

Is it just me or does Ryan always have false rumors spread about his products...

[Tunaman]

I am just trying to figure out how to sell/install/install customers triggers so they don't COST ME money!

[Tunaman]

Is it just me or does Ryan always have false rumors spread about his products...And nobody said ANYTHING bad about his or any other products. I am not into that.

[ClassicMagger]

Hey:

Tuna nor any other AGD Tech or Dealer cannot warranty or guarantee that one of Logic's triggers will work in the E-Mag.

It is NOT covered under AGD Warranty. You can read it all you like; and I know I have. There is no special exception to the warranty process that says a Logic Trigger is under our warranty.

Also, moving your trigger rod ANY length outside of the 2.125 that AGD specifies is moving it outside of spec, which can void your warranty.

So, I'd suggest for anyone who would like to void their AGD warranty with a product other than AGD's to go to the person who makes that product and demand a warranty from them.

TunaMan is doing it for his own good. Why warranty a product you don't create or the company you work for doesn't create??? Makes no sense to me, if I were in his position I wouldn't warranty it either or guarantee that it will work.

Peace said.

If you would like to go into this any farther and choice words need to be used all of you know how to E-Mail or PM me.

-ClassicMagger

[Vex]

Hey:

Tuna nor any other AGD Tech or Dealer cannot warranty or guarantee that one of Logic's triggers will work in the E-Mag.

It is NOT covered under AGD Warranty. You can read it all you like; and I know I have. There is no special exception to the warranty process that says a Logic Trigger is under our warranty.

Also, moving your trigger rod ANY length outside of the 2.125 that AGD specifies is moving it outside of spec, which can void your warranty.

So, I'd suggest for anyone who would like to void their AGD warranty with a product other than AGD's to go to the person who makes that product and demand a warranty from them.

TunaMan is doing it for his own good. Why warranty a product you don't create or the company you work for doesn't create??? Makes no sense to me, if I were in his position I wouldn't warranty it either or guarantee that it will work.

Peace said.

If you would like to go into this any farther and choice words need to be used all of you know how to E-Mail or PM me.

-ClassicMagger
100% True.
Word to your mother...

[RRfireblade]

Hey:

Tuna nor any other AGD Tech or Dealer cannot warranty or guarantee that one of Logic's triggers will work in the E-Mag.

It is NOT covered under AGD Warranty. You can read it all you like; and I know I have. There is no special exception to the warranty process that says a Logic Trigger is under our warranty.

Also, moving your trigger rod ANY length outside of the 2.125 that AGD specifies is moving it outside of spec, which can void your warranty.

So, I'd suggest for anyone who would like to void their AGD warranty with a product other than AGD's to go to the person who makes that product and demand a warranty from them.

TunaMan is doing it for his own good. Why warranty a product you don't create or the company you work for doesn't create??? Makes no sense to me, if I were in his position I wouldn't warranty it either or guarantee that it will work.

Peace said.

If you would like to go into this any farther and choice words need to be used all of you know how to E-Mail or PM me.

-ClassicMagger


Umm, yeah...that's precisely what I've already stated back at the top of this page but...yeah, again. ;)

As well as what action should be taken should an issue arise.

Why are we still talking about this?

As for Tuna, if it's to much trouble for you to install a Fireblade trigger, either charge what you feel it's worth to do or simply don't do it. It's only 'your' choice to make so make it, thanks. :)

If anyone needs one installed, I've already stated it will cost them no more than shipping charges to my front door.

End of discussion.

Thanks....again,

Jay. :ninja:

[MonsterMag]

I have a fireblade from one of the first batches. It has no sear hole on the back, so instead of lengthening my trigger rod it has to be shortened to function. It works flawlessly now. I have it tuned so light. I can blow on it and it fires , yet shaking of the marker does not fire it. :D
Fireblades not only look great they shoot alot faster than the stock trigger.
http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/25000/100_1996_rs.JPG

[CoolHand]

No choice words needed CM, but you ought to know that we DO warranty our parts. No one need force me, I stand behind everything I've ever made.

Tuna - Who said you should warranty my triggers? I sure didn't. Also, who said that it was you who always starts the rumors? Again, it wasn't me. (Though it is kinda funny that you would get indignant about it.) My gripe in this situation is that only a very small percentage of markers ever have a problem. The problem is that most of the time, when someone from AGD says there might or could be a problem, certain folks on AO turn that into "You will have a problem, your sear will wear out in ten shots, AGD won't warranty your marker, and you'll be screwed!". This precedent was set long ago by the same folks that start the rumors. I don't know why things always go this way here, but they do.

These triggers were designed to drop into a stock EMag with the sear rod set to the stock length, and not bounce. The prototype was installed and tested for a good long while in Jay's XMag, and a brand new EMag I bought specifically for the purpose. If the tolerances of a specific marker all line up short, then you could have problems. I have heard from eight or ten people about their maker not firing in mech mode, out of the just under 200 FireBlades sold to date. That's a 5% chance of it not working the first time. That means that 95% of the time the thing will just drop right in and work like its supposed to. If you install one and end up having to take it apart the 5 or 6 times (like you said), then measure the durned thing when its done and write it down. Then the most you'd ever have to take one apart is twice.

What folks need to realize, is that any aftermarket part is going to void your manufacturer's warranty, for any marker. I don't know where this notion that AGD should warranty all sorts of modded markers came from, but it sure wasn't my idea.

We warranty our own parts, just like AGD, and just like every other manufacturer. Jay and myself have both said (on numerous occasions) that if the customer cannot make the trigger work, we will. If the trigger won't function at all (no matter who is installing it), then it gets replaced with one that will work. If we can't make it work, they get their money back. That's about as bullet proof of a warranty as you will get in paintball.

Its all this extraneous crap that makes it hard for me to justify more Mag products. I spend so much more time fighting false rumors and crap from people who really should not be trusted, than I ever do solving actual problems. And folks wonder why there aren't more aftermarket Mag parts. :rolleyes:

[SpecialBlend2786]

What folks need to realize, is that any aftermarket part is going to void your manufacturer's warranty, for any marker. I don't know where this notion that AGD should warranty all sorts of modded markers came from, but it sure wasn't my idea.

We warranty our own parts, just like AGD, and just like every other manufacturer. Jay and myself have both said (on numerous occasions) that if the customer cannot make the trigger work, we will. If the trigger won't function at all (no matter who is installing it), then it gets replaced with one that will work. If we can't make it work, they get their money back. That's about as bullet proof of a warranty as you will get in paintball

eggzactly.

And I believe on the Fireblade product page it states quite clearly:



Jay's even a nice enough guy to install them for free if you like.

If you are having your trigger sent to Jay, please put this address in the ship to fields during checkout:
Jason Hunter
473 Magnolia St.
Ormond Beach,Florida 32176

With that as well as Logic's warrenty, i really dont see what the issue is here. And i dont see why anyone would pay to get Tuna to install it or why he should have to feel obliged to do it when both Jay and Ryan have said they will do it for free minus the cost of shipping.

[BigEvil]

Its all this extraneous crap that makes it hard for me to justify more Mag products. I spend so much more time fighting false rumors and crap from people who really should not be trusted, than I ever do solving actual problems. And folks wonder why there aren't more aftermarket Mag parts. :rolleyes:


AMEN.

It this same crap that put the first throughts of retirment into Toms head too I bet.

[atm743]

Dang, I am waiting for my Fireblade trigger. I hope mine works. :(


you want to take a vise grip and take out the sear of the e-mag and make the sear pin longer

its really easy

take off the grips

get some niddle noise plyers and pull out the c clip

pull out sear

take vise grips and twist the sear pin to make it longer soo it will shoot in mech


make sure that you dont make it too long for e cuse there needs to be no bounce in e mode to make it leagal in ternements