New HP tank on commercial airplane guidelines?/rant

[barberjohn]

well i just got home from a not so enjoyable plane trip back home from St. Louis, mostly due to the fact that they would not allow my tank on the plane without the security people being able to see directly into my tank. at first they got me because the tank was pressurized, and i had to come down and depressurize the tank for them (i have a 2k3 maxflo), which i do admit was my fault, i should not have left my tank pressurized. but then they told me that they have to see some plunger that allows the tank to pressurize then depressurize during flight, during which im like :confused:. so after this guy finishes trying to explain to me what an on/off valve/regulator is, i tell him that my tank has one built in and i have left it to the ON position, allowing air to release during flight. so then the guy says this lever could "jiggle" close, and im like wtf, no, it wont. so i continue to argue, saying that it is safe to go on the plane, when he finally gives up on the "plunger" deal and says he must see inside the tank for me to take it on the plane with me. *the security guy says that the FDA was cracking down on this 'sorta stuff', thus making stiffer regulations*. so now im like :mad: and saying in order to do that i would have to take off the secondary and primary reg, stripping the locktite out of the tank which i have been told only an authorized airsmith SHOULD do. anyways, i ended up having to send the tank to myself via usps that was conveniently down stairs, ruining my plane trip (not that i was excited anyway).

so, my question is that is this for real? do they really have to see INSIDE the tank in order for it to be allowed onto the plane now? if this is true, then a whoooole lot of paintballers like me are going to be mighty pissed at their friendly airport security guys.

[KapitalJin]

Unfortunately their guidelines are very strict and if they dont follow it, its their neck. Also, many people have never seen the sport paintball before? Half the people dont even know what a hpa tank looks like. They see carbon fiber and something that looks like it can blow up and make a big deal out of it. Whatever looks complicated to them, its a bomb!

thats why I go on road trips... haha!

[Lohman446]

Once depressurized you can unscrew a max-flo tank (at least the new style ones) making them compliant with these regulations. At least as I understand it. And yes, there are other tanks that this can be done with.

[AGDlover]

Ya kinda sucks you should have said "Gimme some tape and i'll tape the damn thing on!!!! :mad: " but its nothing new infact I'm shipping my tank to Lohman for IAO since I cant bring it on the plane and he's driving. but ya kinda sucks that you had to go through all of the BS and I chuckeled when i saw "*the security guy says that the FDA was cracking down on this 'sorta stuff'"

OK the FDA? The Food and Drug Administration?

[RingOfScale]

wait, just checking ... in reality there is no danger right ? ? cause i mean, if they are rated to go to 3000 psi, thats equal to 204.1379 atm (or, 204.1379 times our normal pressure at sea level) ... and if you go up to 35,000 feet high, the pressure isnt going to drop down low enough to make 1 atm into something 200 times the pressure of the outside air <> <>


EDIT: left a word out <>

[MonsterMag]

Well if you have 4500psi in there and the pin valve goes or the piston in the nipple somehow opens 4500 pounds of air is gonna come out. enough to put a hole through the plane.

What about co2 tanks? When I went to texas laster year I had no problems. I Have a crossfire , if I plan I flying should I just bring a wrech and unscrew the nipple for them?

[Jaan]

If those people had half a brain they'd be working real jobs.

The last time I got on a plane, I was going to North Carolina for 3 days to visit a sick cousin. They almost didn't let me on the plane because I only had one suitcase with me and it didn't have much in it. Jesh, do I really have to explain that a guy doesn't need much for 3 days and two nights? It's not like I bought a one way ticket lol.

When my little brother came back from Iraq some dufus "confiscated" an empty cigarette lighter with Saddam's picture on it because it was a "torch". This was on the last leg of the trip back from fighting a war for a year. Exactly how many brain cells do you need to have before you realize if an American soldier wanted to commit an act of terrorism he might have done it while he was in Iraq surrounded by machine guns and explosives rather than wait until he was almost home and try to do something with an empty cigarette lighter. The incredible lack of common sense boggles the mind.

Sorry, I had to vent (c:

[Blazestorm]

You're not supposed to loctite your regs.

Buy a www.guerrillaair.com reg... they don't have to be loctited down when you attach them to the cylinder, simple hand-tightening is fine. NIFTAH EH?

[magman007]

Well if you have 4500psi in there and the pin valve goes or the piston in the nipple somehow opens 4500 pounds of air is gonna come out. enough to put a hole through the plane.

What about co2 tanks? When I went to texas laster year I had no problems. I Have a crossfire , if I plan I flying should I just bring a wrech and unscrew the nipple for them?


first off, do the math. the cubic feet in the tank, and the cubic feet in the belly of an aircraft, cannot cause a hole in the airplane. i belive it adds up to only 17psi increase in the aircraft. not bad at all.

second off, you must remove the reg. totally. not the nipple trick, it doesnt work

[scrumpy]

Think about this: A 3000psi dump is enough to crush bone is it not? Let's imagine an HPA tank that is stored along side the thin membrane surrounding the aircraft. Let's also imagine that somehow this HPA tank ruptures and dumps 3000psi into this membrane - what do you think will happen? Do you think that it could possibly put a hole into the aircraft and cause a bit of trouble? Safety first.

[Beemer]

Check this thread out for some answers.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=156022

You are now more informed and educated, I hope. Aint it great? Spread the word.

____________
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[jetgirl]

Check this thread out for some answers.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=156022

You are now more informed and educated, I hope. Aint it great? Spread the word.

____________
http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

I wonder - this doesn't apply to shipping, does it? At that rate, it would be easier to ship the tank or rent one. The last thing I want is my baggage delayed several hours because my tank also looks like a bomb. Still, I'd rather have the plane I'm on get to its destination in one safe piece than to take chances. Do the same rules apply with scuba tanks?

[warpspyder]

Think about this: A 3000psi dump is enough to crush bone is it not? Let's imagine an HPA tank that is stored along side the thin membrane surrounding the aircraft. Let's also imagine that somehow this HPA tank ruptures and dumps 3000psi into this membrane - what do you think will happen? Do you think that it could possibly put a hole into the aircraft and cause a bit of trouble? Safety first.

No. First off if for some reason it managed to it wouldn't matter anyway. Where the tank would be isn't pressurized, so it's highly unlikely that the walls would be that thin. AND the baggage is placed inside containers, so not only would said tank have to break through the wall of the aircraft (which is actually increadibly strong) it would also have to make it out of his bag, and out of the cargo container, and THEN puncture the fuselage w/ enough force to cause problems. It would have to be one big flippin' hole, as planes are subjected to massive pressure changes during normal operation (Do you have any idea the rate those planes climb at?). And that's assuming the reg just blows off. Leaking out will never cause enough force to do much more than maybe move the tank a bit. :eek: Am I right?

[Beemer]

I wonder - this doesn't apply to shipping, does it? At that rate, it would be easier to ship the tank or rent one. The last thing I want is my baggage delayed several hours because my tank also looks like a bomb. Still, I'd rather have the plane I'm on get to its destination in one safe piece than to take chances. Do the same rules apply with scuba tanks?


i ended up having to send the tank to myself via usps that was conveniently down stairs

And what were the requirements per usps to ship it?

[MonsterMag]

Is the lugage cabin pressurized?

[rabidchihauhau]

I don't even know why this subject is being debated: the TSA has said NO to pressure tanks that have a permanently attached valve/regulator/whatever, period.

Get a screw-on reg/tank and be prepared to open it up at checkin or ship your stuff. End of story.

[shartley]

It does not matter if the workers know about paintball or not. Terrorists usually don’t try to put bombs on airliners that LOOK like bombs…. 50 sticks of dynamite wrapped in electrical tape and an alarm clock fastened to it.

Flying on an airliner is not a “right”, so if you choose to do so, you have to deal with all the issues that are associated with it. And when it comes to paintball and flying, I think it is just easier to ship your equipment than to fly with it.


If those people had half a brain they'd be working real jobs.
What do you consider a “real” job? Do janitors have “real” jobs? How about firefighters? Teachers? Taxi Drivers? Soldiers? Cleaning Ladies/Gentlemen? Cooks? Cashiers? Fruit Pickers?

What do you think would happen if all these people who are not working “real” jobs were not there?


When my little brother came back from Iraq some dufus "confiscated" an empty cigarette lighter with Saddam's picture on it because it was a "torch". This was on the last leg of the trip back from fighting a war for a year. Exactly how many brain cells do you need to have before you realize if an American soldier wanted to commit an act of terrorism he might have done it while he was in Iraq surrounded by machine guns and explosives rather than wait until he was almost home and try to do something with an empty cigarette lighter. The incredible lack of common sense boggles the mind.
Yeah, because people who do terrorist acts are not in the US Military or former US Military members…… Oh yeah, they have been. Sorry I forgot.

And of course those who want to commit terrorist acts always do it in places that are full of armed people and explosives. Oh yeah, they don’t do they. Sorry, I forgot.

I personally think there are more important things to complain about than a cigarette lighter being confiscated. And common sense goes for everyone, to include those typing on internet forums. ;)

[BigEvil]

Im not sure if anyone mentioned this already cus im too lazy to read every post, but I believe most players who need to travel ship their equipment seperately, say via Fed Ex or something.

I know most hotels will accomodate accepting packages for their guests. (for a small fee)

There is still certain PB items that you can put in your checked luggage at the airport. Your clothes, harness, mask ext shouldnt be problem.

Even though we call them "Markers" the rest of the world still sees them as "guns" so always check with the airline first.'

[Raven001]

It does not matter if the workers know about paintball or not. Terrorists usually don’t try to put bombs on airliners that LOOK like bombs…. 50 sticks of dynamite wrapped in electrical tape and an alarm clock fastened to it.

Unless their names are Boris & Natashia :D

[rabidchihauhau]

Unless their names are Boris & Natashia :D

yeah, but then the people working the counter would be "Moose und Squirrel"...

[jetgirl]

And what were the requirements per usps to ship it?

The tank just has to be empty. I know because I shipped a tank a few months ago.

[warpspyder]

Is the lugage cabin pressurized?
No. Not for your regular luggage. Obviously for animals it would be.

[Jaan]

I personally think there are more important things to complain about than a cigarette lighter being confiscated. And common sense goes for everyone, to include those typing on internet forums. ;)
All I was pointing out was how ridiculous it was to expect someone who had ample opportunity to commit acts of violence against Americans with some serious ordinance would wait until he got home and do it with an empty cigarette lighter.

Perhaps I should point out that he had THREE lighters, and they only took / found one. So, I don't know what's worse ... either the guy was stealing the lighter for himself because it was cool, or that he was actually trying to keep people safe and missed the other two lighters. Either was it's a cause for concern.

I'm sorry, but from what I've seen, I DON'T feel safer at all, and I have a right to say so. There may ... may .... be a slight reason for the new regulations concerning pressurized tanks, but how many have blown up before? Has this really been a problem in the past? I have a sneaking suspicion that it was just the brain child of some pencil pusher looking out for his own job. Hummmmm ... what can we go after next ... high pressure tanks, oh, that sounds scary.

Yes, they have new regulations and yes, if we want to fly we have to put up with it or State Troupers with sub machine guns will open up on us (seriously, what the hell are they actually there for?) but that doesn't mean it will accomplish anything and it doesn't mean we have to blindly accept their word that it does either.

/RANT :dance:

[Target Practice]

Paging Army to thread #177884.

Anyway, this is why you ship your equipment. You don't have to lug it with you, it's insured, and you know nobody is going to give you crap about it.

[barberjohn]

lol, FDA was just something i knew off the top of my head, but he did quote some acronym. as for shipping, usps took it, no problems with them :rolleyes: . w/e, i hate this terrorism scare stuff, but im glad its there, for all our sakes :) .

[Rick-USA]

The accronym he probably quoted was TSA (Transportation Security Administration). The rules passed out this year require the inspector to be able to visually see inside your tank. Some airlines have taken that a step farther and don't allow tanks of any type on the plane even with the regs removed. This is also the same group that doesn't let you carry any tools in your carry on bags and makes you remove your shoes when going through the metal dectector.

The requirements for shipping them UPS, USPS, etc simply state they have to be depressurized. If you are questioned there you can usually just show the person asking the guage or remove the rupture disk so as to prove it's vented to the outside air.

My best advice short of shipping your equipment ahead of time to a friend or the hotel is to call your airline well before your flight time and ask them what the requirements are. I don't fault the security people at all for enforcing the rules they have. Just because a person getting there doesn't always know the rules makes it a lot harder for the people trying to enforce them to seem like they know what they are doing. ;)