AO Research Team!! Need You For Testing!!>>>

[AGD]

Team AO - Research Division,

I have a special experiment that I need you to test and collect data on. At worst it will be fun and you will waste about 50 paintballs. At BEST it will change the future of painball. Read on....

As most of you know paintballs change with time and humidity. This is the single biggest challenge facing paintball today. We have recently had a discussion around Tech Tip #4 about how brittle the paint has become under the gause of "tournament paint". Paint gets old etc. and there is basically nothing you can do about it. Well there might be a way to change that but we have to test it with lots of different paint and different people.

Webbie is a cigar affecianado and while I am not, I was still curious as to how they kept those humidors at a stable humidity level. This lead to an email exchange on where to get humidity sensors and how to CALIBRATE THEM.

To calibrate the sensors you need a known, stable humid environment. Humm, to keep paintballs fresh, you need a known stable humid environment.... In order to test your sensor AT HOME (like where you store your paintballs) you need an easy way to generate this environment. So you see where we are going with this?

To my amazement there is an easy way to do it and here it is. Take a small cup and fill it 1/2 inch with regular old table salt. Drop in two tablespoons of water and mix it around so it’s clumped up. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT NOT TO PUT IN TOO MUCH WATER!! The idea is to have a salt paste about like toothpaste in consistency. If you over water it, this test will not work. This forms your humidity generator and when placed in a small sealed environment will generate EXACTLY 75% humidity.

Now for the test setup, take fifty to 100 or so paintballs and leave them in the bag they came in. Take out 10 paintballs and do a bounce test (see Tech Tip #4) and record how many bounces EACH ball takes to break. You will be reporting these numbers in the final data sheet.

Take the bag of paintballs you have left and put them in a safe, room temperature place somewhere in your house. Set the bag on the floor, open it, and place your cup of watered salt standing up in the bag. Carefully close up the bag with a twist tie and write down the time you closed the bag next to the bounce test numbers.

Wait until around the same time the next day and open your bag and take out 10 paintballs and reseal the bag quickly. Do the bounce test on the ten balls, recording the number for each ball AND what time you tested it.

Repeat this procedure the next day noting again the bounce numbers and time of test.

If we get fifty people to do this test accurately we will be able to add some serious scientific knowledge to paintball. The initial bounce tests ploted against the following two days tests will generate a curve of data that can tell us many things.

This data will tell us:
1. How long does it take for humidity to affect paintballs?
2. If every ball is in the same humid environment do they all break the same?
3. Is 75% humidity too much or too little? Do they get gooey or brittle?
4. Are all types of paintballs affected in the same way? Dry paint vs regular gelatin?
5. Which paint, dry or regular, likes 75% humidity best?
6. If paint starts fresh and consistent does this help or hurt it?
7. If it starts old and inconsistent does this make it better or worse?
8. If it starts as say 5 bounce paint, how much does this add or subtract from the bounce test?
9. If it starts at 5 does it go to 10 (+5) or if it starts at 1 does it go to 10 or just 5 bounces?

IF this makes paint more consistent and the results show that you can generate your own perfect paint storage THIS WILL ABSOULUTLEY BE A HISTORIC DAY FOR PAINTBALL AND YOU CAN SAY YOU WERE PART OF IT!!!

If not then you can all say you participated in a real, honest to goodness scientific experiment. Maybe some of you can get credit at school.

This is an important project for you all to do accurately and document properly and I have confidence the members of AO are a cut above and up to the task. If you forget to test the balls the day after and its 2 or 3 days later that’s ok too just don’t lie about the data!! All data will generate a smoother curve and tell us something but we need at least 40 tests to give us statistically significant data. You provide the data, I’ll crunch the numbers.

Damn this is cool!! If this works out we get to poke RPS and the rest of the paint manufacturers in the eye with the results!! You can go to tournaments not caring what kind of paint they give you. You can setup your gun to shoot the type of paint YOU expect it to shoot. That stuff sitting around for 6 months would STILL be good!

I’ll put the data template on the post below.

Let me know if your going to participate!!

Dr. AGD


ps here is the link to the cigar info
http://www.cigargroup.com/faq/#6.1

[AGD]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test

AO nickname -
Manufacturer of paint-
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)-
How many weeks old is this paint? -
Is this dry paint? - y/n

Date-
Time-
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-
Bounce average -
Comments-



After one day in humidor
Date-
Time-
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-
Bounce average -
Comments-


After two days in humidor
Date-
Time-
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-
Bounce average -


Comments-

[Russ]

I'm here for you, Tom!

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test 11-29-01

AO nickname - Russ
Manufacturer of paint - 32 Degrees
Name of paint - Team Colors > New Orleans > Winter Fill
How many weeks old is this paint? - purchased 11-23-01
Is this dry paint? - No

Date - 11-29-01
Time - 12:00am
Bounce test results...
9,0,6,1,3,2,0,1,1,7,0
Average - 2.73
Comments - very inconsistent, paint that didn't bounce once, got a zero.



After one day in humidor...
Date - 12-29-01
Time - 11:45pm
Bounce test results...
7,2,11,5,9,16,5,2,1,4,8
Average - 6.36
Comments -


After two days in humidor...
Date - 11-30-01
Time - 11:45pm
Bounce test results...
6,3,2,4,1,2,10,5,2,1
Average - 3.6
Comments -

[AGD]

Russ,

Thanks for being the first on board!!

Please put in each of the bounce test numbers if you still have them and edit your post to reflect that.

Thanks!

AGD

[MajorDamage]

Im planning on doing this, I have some Proball and some old BigBall. I'm planning on testing both paints. Thanx Tom! YOU RULE :D!

ENDO!

[Hexis]

I will start two batches tomorrow. RPS Marb Green/Yellow fill, the very brittle stuff from Paintball Sam's Big Game 2 in Oct and the replacement Pink/Grey RPS. Both are the new advantage shell. Would it be good to try 9 month old paint? I have some RPS Marb from Big Game 1 in May also. That's the non advantage shell.

[AGD]

Guys,

The bigger variety of paint you can test the better!

AGD

[Bad Dave]

What about getting the manufacturer to put sell by dates on their paint?

[cphilip]

Ha HAHAHAH! I just happen to own Three Humidors!!!!

OK I am going to wait and recheck the humidistats in them this weekend just to be sure. I guess webby told you about the use of Propylene Glycol and water at 1:1 ratio that is the normal Humidor fluid used to achieve the 70% humidity that Cigars like so I guess that since most do not have humidors that you decided it was easier for more involvment to go with the salt test level of 75% But I was wondering you like a 70% run too? I can always set one of my Humidors up with a petri dish of wet salt and let it stabilize for a day or so and run that but I can do the 70% right away.

I have pretty much experience in the Salt calibration technic myself (webby didn't know you were into Cigars! I am a long time member of the Fuente site and a Don Carlos and Hemingway line of Fuente Cigars fanatic)

Anyway I have some Power Ball pearl I will use and I think I can get ahold of some Proball by then. I will report when I get started.

[AGD]

Cphilip,

We would have to have a bunch of tests at the 70% level to tell us anything. Best to stick with the salt for this run.

Thanks

AGD

[hitech]

I won't be able to start until this weekend, is that soon enough?

Also, the paint I plan to use is left over from about two weeks ago. I assume that is okay. I'll post the results.

Tom, didn't you develope a "plastic" shelled paint ball many years ago?

[cphilip]

Got it! 75% it is Boss...

[Dave]

FINAL & COMPLETE RESULTS---------------posted December 9, 2001--------------


AO nickname - Dave
Manufacturer of paint-RPS
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)-PMI Premium
Paint description-Orange/Blue shell, medium bore, NEVER BEEN OPENED bag.
How many weeks old is this paint? Bought 11/17 at 8:25 pm
Is this dry paint? - No

Date-11/29

Starting Time-3:47 pm

Ending Time-3:59 pm

Temperature where paint is stored-72 degrees

Temperature where paint is tested-60 degree

Humidity in the test-75% at stored area

Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10

1---1
2---3
3---0
4---0
5---0
6---0
7---1
8---6
9---0
10--0
-
Bounce average -1.6

Comments-I first tested on rough concrete, but then moved to smooth concrete. The paint is very inconsistent and extremely, extremely brittle. More broke on first contact with the ground.


TEST 2-After one day in Humidor

Date-11/30

Starting Time(checking paint)-3:57 pm

Ending Time-4:05 pm

Temperature where paint is stored-73 degrees

Temperature where paint is tested-68 degrees

Humidity in the test-N/A

Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10

1---0
2---2
3---0
4---0
5---2
6---1
7---2
8---5
9---0
10--0

Bounce average -2.4

Comments-Still very brittle, a little more consistency, and improving slightly. The day was very, very muggy and humid outside. It had rained in the morning. I noticed that the humidor was not at the proper consistency-it was to dry. It had gotted JUST wet enough to hold together, so I added some more water and it became a mushy paste, but not too wet at all, not runny.


TEST 3-After two days in Humidor

Date-12/1

Starting Time(checking paint)-4:27 pm

Ending Time-4:32 pm

Temperature where paint is stored-73 degrees

Temperature where paint is tested-64 degrees

Humidity in the test-N/A

Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10

1---2
2---9
3---1
4---2
5---5
6---0
7---6
8---6
9---1
10--0

Bounce average -3.2

Comments-Starting to look better! The paint bounced a little higher today! It didn't feel or sound as brittle-the paint was much more responsive today than it had been in previous days.


TEST 4-After three days in Humidor

Date-12/2

Starting Time(checking paint)-4:02 pm

Ending Time-4:05 pm

Temperature where paint is stored-70 degrees

Temperature where paint is tested-undeterminable, but cold

Humidity in the test-N/A

Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10

1---0
2---1
3---1
4---0
5---2
6---1
7---0
8---4
9---1
10--9

Bounce average -1.6

Comments- This paint is terrible! LOL! I can't use it with my superbolt because the superbolt just has a chopfest with it, but it works ~ok~ with my foamie

Tom, I have been doing TWO other tests along with this one, with full bouce test sheets...here are the 3 tests I have been doing-

1. 500 rds w/humidor -the test you gave us to do, and the results posted above

2. 400-500 rds without humidor-comparing to see the difference between it and the first test

3. 75-200 rds outside w/humidor-these balls were left outside for one day, then brought inside and placed in a bag with the humidor to test the recovery.

well, have fun with the data, and I hope I participated in changing paintball:D

-Dave

[Army]

So I guess my Swisher Perfectos still in their wrappers don't count? LOL:)

[emaggot4life]

Cool I love experiments. As it stands, I will be doing the first test today (Thursday), the 2nd Saturday, and the 3rd monday. I have a messed up work schedule, 1 day on 1 day off. This will hopefully still be useful for the results.

[cphilip]

Naw Army... Swishers are only good for keepin the dog pecker Gnats out of your face.:D

[udtseal]

Count me in Tom! Right at your side!! I have 3 fresh bags of Polar Ice! Purchased from Tunaman on Nov. 17th. These are dry shell so this could be interesting!! I will start today and get back with info!

HERES MY RESULTS, TEST DAY #4

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test

AO nickname - UDTSEAL
Manufacturer of paint- RPS
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- Polar Ice (winter fill)
How many weeks old is this paint? - 1 week 5 days
Is this dry paint? - YES

Date- 11/29/01
Time- 4:16pm Easter Standard
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-2,2,3,1,2,1,1,10,6,1
Bounce average - 2.9
Comments- WOW! Brittle paint! I cant explain the 10 and 6 bouncers. I did the test exactly how tom said in tech tip #4. No wonder I would break one occasionally at Top Gun. At least it is pretty consistently brittle! haha



After 3 DAYS in humidor
Date-12-02-01
Time- 5:20pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 2,5,2,3,5,1,1,10,4,5
Bounce average - 3.8 !!!
Comments- Sorry for not updating sooner, I have been so busy. But, this bounce test is on the 4th day. I completely forgot bout the bag, college sucks. Sorry tom, but maybe it can still be useful, I sure hope so. The bag has been sealed for 3 days straight and the numbers were greatly improved! Well, I think so anyway. I think you are on to something there Dr. Kaye! hehe!

[zvanut]

Tom, is it ok for me to post my data after 3 days

[i-luv-my-rt]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test

AO nickname - I-luv-my-rt & Ityl
Manufacturer of paint- Reaper Paintballs
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- Reaper White/White
How many weeks old is this paint? - 3-4
Is this dry paint? - NO

Date- 11/29/01
Time- 5:57(eastern)
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 10,10,7,5,1,11,1,6,18,1
Bounce average - 6.4
Comments- This paint has a very watery fill. Small bore(size) I realized that if you hold the paint in your hand it will affect the paints bounce dramatically. I took a ball from my hand and it bounce 35 times. So far very inconsistent paint.



After one day in humidor
Date-11/30/01
Time- 6:30
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 10,12,11,15,17,13,8 and the other 3 i lost count
Bounce average - 12.4
Comments- This paint got harder causing very high bounce numbers. Good? We'll see when i play this weekend with it.


After two days in humidor
Date-12/2/01
Time- 10:15 am
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-
Bounce average - Wouldnt Break!!!!


Comments- I skipped yesterday so that i could post what the paint was like before i went out and practiced. Well when me team arrived i bought a half case of Diablo Blaze b/c i knew 1 case with my new e-mag wouldnt be enough. Well i started with the Blaze and had no breaks all day. Then i switched to this Reaper and the non-humidified paint wouldnt shoot. I noticed that this paint grew from about a .684 to a good .686. Without using the humidor to adjust my paint i was unable to shoot it. This is a major improvement and am glad to have come apon this. The only problem is, is that i had alot of bounces that day. This wasnt very unsual but still not good. Maybe less time in the humidor would have fixed that.
Thanks AGD!!!

[845]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test

AO nickname - 845
Manufacturer of paint- PMI
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- Premium black/red white fill
How many weeks old is this paint? - 4
Is this dry paint? - y if your are referring to the kind without oily feeling shell

Date- 11/29/2001
Time- 6:35
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 8,8,6,1,10+,5,3,3,4,2
Bounce average - 5.3
Comments- Damnn this stuff isnt going to break easily, one bounced up and hit me in the head before i caught it, tastes funny but strangely satisfying :D



After one day in humidor
Date- 11/30
Time- 6:46pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 3 2 6 41 16 8 2 2 1 2
Bounce average - 8.3
Comments- Strange numbers?? Dog ate one


After two days in humidor
Date- 11/1
Time- 6:46 pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 15.1.4.14.1.1.13.19.2.7
Bounce average - 7.7


Comments- Not very constant

[Dave]

Wow....I started it this evening...I hope I added enough water to the Humidifier...it is JUST wet enough to form a paste. I will post results in 3 days. I also think there ought to be an official Results post for the paint testing, so Tom won't have to sift through posts to get the info. So far, something I have all ready noticed...and something that might surprise paintball manufacturers....so far, all the paint has proved very inconsistant...my PMI was extremely incosistant with a High/Low of 13/0
This is going to be incredible when its over...thanks Tom for asking for our help and getting us involved. When Sunday rolls around I'll have a ton of info for you.

-Dave

[X-Plosive]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test 11-29-01

AO nickname - X-Plosive
Manufacturer of paint - RPS/PMI
Name of paint - PMI premium, blue/orange shell, orange fill
How many weeks old is this paint? - purchased 11-12-01
Is this dry paint? - Yes

Date - 11-29-01
Time - 7:05pm
Bounce test results - 4,6,2,2,10,10,1,6,1,1 average 4.3
Comments- The bouncing was very inconsisten but what do you expect from 2 and a half week old paint. The paint was still hard and didn't deform even when you pressed on it.

[Dude]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test

AO nickname - Dude
Manufacturer of paint- 32 Degrees
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- Team Colors
How many weeks old is this paint? - one
Is this dry paint? - no

Date- 11/29/01
Time- 6:41 pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 7,3,2,3,4,10,3,9,2,1
Bounce average - 4.4
Comments-

These paintballs were curiosly inconsistent in their bounces needed to burst open numbers

After one day in humidor
Date-
Time-
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-
Bounce average - 4.5
Comments-


After two days in humidor
Date-
Time-
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-
Bounce average -


Comments-

[BarryTolar]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test

AO nickname - BarryTolar
Manufacturer of paint- Diablo (Sheridan)
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- Sheridan Visible Impact
How many weeks old is this paint? - Bought new tonight (How long it's been on Walmart's shelf is anyones guess)
Is this dry paint? - y/n Well It's not oily

Date- 11/29/2001
Time- 7:30
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
4-1-1-1-1-2-2-1-4-4
Bounce average - 2
Comments- It's Walmart paint but somebodys gotta test it - anyway it's about the only thing that will fit my Armson old barrel so



After one day in humidor
Date-11/30/2001
Time- 7:30PM
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
6-3-4-1-11-1-2-11-2-8
Bounce average - 4.625
Comments-


After two days in humidor
Date-12/1/2001
Time-7:30PM
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
2-10-2-4-6-5-2-6-7-8
Bounce average - 5


Comments-


Manufacturer of paint- RPS
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- Big Ball
How many weeks old is this paint? - Bought 2-3 weeks ago
Is this dry paint? - y/n Well It's not oily

Date- 11/29/2001
Time- 7:30
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
1-2-4-2-6-2-2-2-1-3
Bounce average - 2.25
Comments-


After one day in humidor
Date-11/30/2001
Time- 7:30PM
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
1-1-11-2-2-1-3-4-8-3
Bounce average - 3
Comments-


After two days in humidor
Date-12/1/2001
Time-7:30PM
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
1-2-3-1-8-8-6-7-4-12
Bounce average - 4.375


Comments-

[rhetor22]

Well i have 3 paintballs right now, no lie, thats it. When i get my mag i will buy some paint and test it out. Should be able to by next week.

Tom, Should we also test with different humidities to see the results?

[AGD]

Guys,

This is absoulutely great! I am really excited! You have all posted your first results and we have a nice spread in the bounce numbers. I would like you to edit your posts as the next data comes in so we have everyones data on the same post ok?

We need about 40 tests for statistically significant data so lets get a few more on board!!

AGD

[jr]

tom, i work for a company that makes environmental simulation test chambers. www.envirotronics.com and i know that there is a company a couple of blocks from you that have test chambers. dont think what im saying is that what your doing is not right im just letting you know that there is alot of ways of doing this. dont you think that the temperature makes a paintball change also?
dont the paintball companys have testing like this?

[Chaos]

haha i know what tom is up to! Get the patent out on this AGD, this is something that will be needed by every player but will be very cheap to make and help the sport greatly. If AGD doesn't make it, i'm going to make it and get the patent then go to diablo and RPS and all them. Ok i'm done sounding like a fool, here's what i think you're up to

Ok go look in a bag of beef jerkey. There is the 'liquid crystals' (you know, the things you always wanted to eat when u were a kid cause u didn't know what was in the magic package in your beef jerkey that says "Do NOT eat") that 'preserve the freshness'. Now go look in say, a new pair of leather shoes. In the box, there is the same sort of thing, to preserve the freshness. Its in a lot of things, just small cloth bags that have the liquid crysals in them, coat pockets even have them! Now, think if in each bag of paintballs, there was one of these seals. Your beef jerkey stays fresher because its in an airtight back, then when u open it it has the flavor saver, and its all in a ziplock back. Now, in each of your bag's of paintballs, there is one of these. This makes getting the shipment of paintballs from the factory to the store to your garage much less of a worry, then your paint will still be 'fresh', even a month later when you finally hit the field. Think about how much of an impact this could have...... first off major profit to the inventor, but this would make paint a lot cheaper in the long run IMO

[Hexis]

You are talking about desiccant. It's a drying agent in a small package. It's not a "freshness keeping device", it keeps stuff from geting humid in sealed areas. You want beef jerkey to be dry. You want your coat pocket to be dry. Dehydrating paint is not the answer.

[Russ]

Start of test 11-30-01

AO nickname - Russ
Manufacturer of paint- RPS
Name of paint - Polar Ice > Green
How many weeks old is this paint? - arrived @ the Store on 11-28, purchased 11-30
Is this dry paint? - Yes, advantage shell

Date - 11-30-01
Time - 6:00pm
Bounce test results individual numbers...
6,26,3,13,2,23,2,21,1,6
Bounce average - 10.3
Comments - $60/2000. Does anyone make a good, consistent paint?



After one day in humidor
Date - 12-01-01
Time - 6:00pm
Bounce test results individual numbers...
2,1,22,2,5,1,22,14,5,10
Bounce average - 8.4
Comments - I won't be buying Polar Ice again!


After two days in humidor
Date - 12-02-01
Time - 6:20pm
Bounce test results individual numbers...
10,4,7,40+,1,1,10,17,11,2
Bounce average - 7
Comments - I didn't average in the 40+, and I didn't feel like testing it any further!

[deweasel697]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test

AO nickname - deweasel697
Manufacturer of paint- Kick'n
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- Kick'n Premium
How many weeks old is this paint? - Bought 12-1-01
Is this dry paint? - n

Date- 12-1-01
Time- 8:30
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 12, 5, 8, 6, 13, 2, 4, 1, 5, 10
Bounce average - 6.6
Comments- Inconsistant breaks



After one day in humidor
Date- 12-2-01
Time- 9:40
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 3, 5, 4, 4, 5, 2, 7, 4, 7, 4
Bounce average - 4.1
Comments- The ball breaks were much more consistant. I did notice that when the ball broke it wouldn't break as large as yesterday, sometimes the ball would just crack and drip a very small amount of paint out.


After two days in humidor
Date- 12-3-01
Time- 9:48
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 4,2,4,1,4,5,7,9,2,3
Bounce average - 4.1


Comments- Same average as previous. Still noticed that the paint didn't break very well.

[Russ]

Up, let's keep this on the front page. :)

[MajorDamage]

Sorry I can't do the test yet, I had to use my paint to play Saturday :( SORRY! I have let Tom down! Now you must unleash the porposes and reindeer upon me to sentence me to me demise of kickboxing these fiends! Or just forgive me and give me some cash to show that I am forgiven, either way :D.

ENDO!

[hitech]

Just a quick update. I have three different brands of paint and will be starting the test tonight.

[AGD]

Guys,

We only have about 9 tests that have reported back with the second days data. To make this a good test no one can argue about we need about 40 tests. Minimum would be 20 so lets get some stuff going here!

AGD

[the JoKeR]

On a somewhat related topic, I have found that keeping my paint in a humidified enviornment during winter months here in Wisconsin helps keep my paint more usable. A 50:50 mix of distilled water and propelene glycol poured over floral foam (exactly the same as my cigar humidor) helps keep it all fresh. Paintballs in my humidor you ask? My La Gloria Cubanas' would never allow it! A 48 quart Coleman cooler gives me room for a couple cases of paint, AND it helps minimize temperature swings (it's insulated).
Sorry, Tom, but I can't swing the actual experiment as requested at this time, though. Just wanted to give some food for thought to those of us who get to enjoy paintball in the snow!
By the way, better luck next time at Paintball Sam's scenario game! I had to go with old age and trechory (Harry) in that game!:D

[hitech]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Note: I am assuming that you only count the bounces in the bounce test. That you do not count the drop that the paint broke on.
Times are when the paint was removed from the humidor.

Start of test - 12/3/2001

AO nickname - Hitech
Manufacturer of paint - RPS
Name of paint - Advantage PMI
How many weeks old is this paint? - Approx. 2 weeks
Is this dry paint? - ??? (The shell is different)

Date- 12/3/2001
Time- 21:43
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 2, 4, 0, 0, 0, 7, 0, 0, 2, 6
Bounce average - 1.75

Comments - Interesting numbers since we had NO problems with this paint. No one had any problems. We have also just used some for shooting "pratice" with no problems. This paint is great.



After one day in humidor
Date- 12/4/2001
Time- 21:39
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 16, 0, 0, 5, 6, 8, 0, 0, 1, 0
Bounce average - 2.5

Comments-


After two days in humidor
Date- 12/5/2001
Time- 22:23
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 4, 4, 2, 1, 5, 6, 5, 3, 2, 0
Bounce average - 3.25


Comments-


AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test 12/3/2001

AO nickname - Hitech
Manufacturer of paint - Nelson
Name of paint - Anarchy Tournment Formula
How many weeks old is this paint? - Approx. 2 weeks
Is this dry paint? - No

Date- 12/3/2001
Time - 21:44
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 2, 9, 8, 0, 0, 6, 1, 7, 2, 3
Bounce average - 3.625

Comments- Again, no problems with this paint at the field.



After one day in humidor
Date- 12/4/2001
Time- 21:40
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 8, 5, 3, 8, 0, 10, 2, 7, 2, 8
Bounce average - 5.375

Comments-


After two days in humidor
Date- 12/5/2001
Time- 22:24
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 6, 7, 12, 25, 0, 4, 2, 4, 40+, 7
Bounce average - 8.375

Comments- I quit after 40 bounces. Since the paint seemed fairly consistent I did one extra ball. Here are the numbers replacing the 40+ with the extra ball.

- 6, 7, 12, 25, 0, 4, 2, 4, 5, 7
Bounce average - 5.875

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test 12/3/2001

AO nickname - Hitech
Manufacturer of paint - ???
Name of paint - Pro Ball
How many weeks old is this paint? - Approx. 4 weeks
Is this dry paint? - No

Date- 12/3/2001
Time- 21:45
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 0, 3, 4, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 4, 6
Bounce average - 1.75

Comments - Again, no problems with this paint at the field.



After one day in humidor
Date- 12/4/2001
Time- 21:41
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 5, 1, 1, 0, 7, 4, 7, 4, 0, 5
Bounce average - 3.375

Comments- Most of the paint now has a dimple.


After two days in humidor
Date- 12/5
Time- 22:25
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 10, 28, 14, 2, 15, 3, 5, 10, 2, 25
Bounce average - 10.5


Comments- Still dimpled.

[magmonkey]

i have some very stale very bad paint at a friends house i'll get it tommorrow and start the expiriment

[hitech]

It's time to give something back. It's time to help Tom out. The entire test should only take you an hour spread out over three days. Let's run some more tests!

[Temo Vryce]

Tom you are one of the few people that I know that do thier best work at night. It must be the peace and quiet and the proximity of the moon. Man I hope this works out for ya Tom. If shows what I think you're hoping it shows. We are going to be able to get the paintball manufactures to make us the kind of paint we want to play with. Now if you can only get all of them to Ban red Fill and not just a few.

[edweird]

OK I know im jumping in to the middle of this but...

1. I know you droped the silical pack idea because it was all wrong ...But most humidors use a clay pack that retains moisture at 70ish for almost a month barring excessive enviromental interfereance.

2. This kick *** finally we can see the true in consistancys in paint. Yes i know that it really matters were on the ball the impact occurs(seam or no seam), but this is a great study that I really wish that I could assist you guys in. But im exilled in korea for a year with no paint to be had.

3. I am amazed that there are so many cigar smokers in paintball.... hrrm advertizing in cigar mags hrrrm.... and most of you have good taste; fuente and the sort. Heck I might just bring out one of my opus x sticks down to the field when I get back stateside on mid tour.

4. Thank you all for doing this I hope that we can pass this along and get some higher quality paint or at least learn something from this all. Heck agd might actually get intrested in this and find themselves in the "quality" paint business. And maybe they can drive them brass eagle bastages back to k mart were they belong.

damn the man save the empire
Ed Ostling

[hitech]

:cool:

[AGD]

Guys,

Thanks to all who participated but this is not enough for a statistical sample. I said more in this thread but on second thought edited it because I didn't want to say something I would regret later. The simple fact is we need more tests, when we get 20 data sets here I'll be glad to spend the time to crunch the numbers.


AGD

[Riot[Z-Grip]]

I seriously seem to have missed this thread before, is it too late to do the experiment and post data? I'll start right now (1:38AM)! Sorry Tom and all those who have already participated in the experiment, I'll get my act together now if it's not too late.

-Riot

[AGD]

It's not too late! Data tastes good all the time.

AGD

[Hexis]

I'm still planning on starting mine, but have een delayed because of Holiday/Family stuff. I have two kinds of RP, and I can go pickup some more at one of the local shops.

[Dave]

C'mon guys! So far we only have 2 paint tests that have gone for 4 days...we need people to post their final days, so lets do it!:)

-Dave

[hitech]

Originally posted by Dave
C'mon guys! So far we only have 2 paint tests that have gone for 4 days...we need people to post their final days, so lets do it!:)


Did I screw up? I thought the test only ran for two days. I thought I was done. They are still in the humidor (I was curious about the long term effects), but it's been over a week.

[hitech]

For those of you who haven't run this test, what is stopping you? I don't mean this as a rhetorical question. I really want to know what is keeping you from being able to run the test.

[Dave]

yeah you were supposed to test it a 3rd day from being in the Humidor...I dunno if Tom will care if you pull it out now, in any case it would be interesting. The most interesting thing in my test was I ended up with the EXACT same number I started with- 1.6 on the bounce test. Man, talk about paint that really bites the lame-o stick.


-Dave

[hitech]

Originally posted by Dave
1.6 on the bounce test. Man, talk about paint that really bites the lame-o stick.

Mine wasn't any better. However, what I find interesting is that no one had any problems with the paint. It was the preferred paint by everyone in our group.

[marc]

Hey I just wanted to tell you that i am still going to do this like i said i i would. Just that i have goten alot of homework this week. I have 3 bags i will test and at the latest i will start testing sunday. Im getting eztra credit from this too .

[MajorDamage]

Up for this! And I bought a case of Team Colors, so tommorow I will do the bounce test and make my saltpaste! I would do it now, but I'd wake people up :(. Come on guys! Help Tom out! He gives us contests, and cool products and you won't even give him $2 of paint? FOR SHAME! :)

ENDO!

[joeyjoe367]

I've got some Diablo Blaze that's about 3 & 1/2 weeks old. I'll make sure to get results every day for 4 days.

[MajorDamage]

Here ya go Tom, I just got done with the first part of the experiment, I hope I did the salt thing right :). I put about half a 140rd tube in the bag, so I should have enough paint for about 6-8 days. Oh, and anyone using Team Colors, search the outside of the bag, there is a tiny hole in each bag in my case, so I think they put them there. I tied the twist tie underneath that so it wont let the air out.

Start of test

AO nickname - MajorDamage
Manufacturer of paint- 32 Degrees
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- San Fransisco Team Colors
How many weeks old is this paint? - I bought this Saturday, but I think its about 1 to 2 months old.
Is this dry paint? - no

Date-12/18/01
Time- 5:10
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
-15, 0, 9, 4, 4, 0, 0, 1, 4, 10
Bounce average - 4.7
Comments- Very inconsistent I guess lol

Second day results

Date-12/19/01
Time- 5:10
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10 - 1, 6, 6, 0, 4, 1, 18, 2, 2, 2
Bounce average - 4.2
Comments- I guess it got a little better, and it stayed about the same bore size(I check it)

Third day results

Date-12/20/01
Time- 5:10
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10 - 4, 4, 11, 1, 4, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0
Bounce average - 2.6
Comments- Seems to be getting more brittle...

Fourth Day Results

Date-12/21/01
Time- 5:10
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 7, 0, 12, 5, 0, 4, 0, 5, 24, 2, 1
Bounce average - 6
Comments- Inconsistent......lol


ENDO!

[MajorDamage]

AGD, if you want I can try and get some of the "Chrono Paint" from the field where I work. Its like a bunch of old Proball and FirstChoice, and I can do the test with this. I figured I'd offer because you havn't got a whole lot of people to do this yet. I can also maybe get some NitroDuck paint that some people left in their rental guns last week after they played lol, when I left Saturday some of the rentals still had almost a full hopper. I can check and see if I can have this stuff too, its pretty fresh(although its sitting in hoppers, so may start to go bad).

ENDO!

[toymyster]

I will try this with some very old Steel Balls this week, and see what happens!!!

[bofh]

Ok, I don't normally have paint in the winter, and I didn't have the amount of salt that I thought I needed. I found a couple pods in my basement, and my wife brought home a 3lbs box of salt one day...


Paintballs kept in airtight cooler inside house. House temp set at 60. (yeah, I like it cold) The cooler should minimize temp changes. Drop testing done in fairly cold garage.

AO nickname - Bofh
Manufacturer of paint- RP Shearer
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)-
How many weeks old is this paint? - From Sping 1999 (Call it 80 weeks?)
Is this dry paint? - y/n no

Date- 12/15/01
Time- 11 pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 0,2,4,2,8,16,7,1,0,0
Bounce average -4.0
Comments- Some of the breaks were amazing. Shells spliting in half and flying a few inches apart.



After one day in humidor
Date- 12/16/01
Time- 11pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 5,4,34,11,4,3,13,10,2,1
Bounce average - 8.7
Comments- I really should clean up my garage.


After two days in humidor
Date- 12/17/01
Time- 11pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 21,27,2,8,3,3,8,3,31,0
Bounce average - 10.6
Comments- This stuff stains the concrete pretty good.

After three days in humidor
Date- 12/18/01
Time- 11pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
- 12,4,0,25,18,13,11,28,16,9
Bounce average - 13.6
Comments- The breaks are much less impressive. They don't split all the way in half anymore, and it's like they don't bounce back. Wife has stopped counting for me, and left garage, citing "It's too cold."

{edit - Added averages}

[Snooky]

I'm not sure if this will help at all in the experiment but im gonna post it for the sake of it. I have some paint that is from the middle of the air say july, august and i noticed that the bags of paint were untied and left for the air to get to them. They have gotten a ring of dust it looks like but its not dust its a white powder. I was wondering if anyone knew what caused the white powder. Im gonna try to shoot these balls and see what happens. Like i said doubt this will help but I'll post it anyway. keep up the work tom.

[MajorDamage]

Snooky, I don't know why, but some paint does that. This one kind of paint called First Choice used to do that even before you opened it. They changed it though lol.

ENDO!

[toymyster]

Ok, as I promised, here goes nothing:
I went to my local store, and got a bag of really old Steel Balls they had sitting around. This paint is well over 4 months old!!! By how old, I mean how long the bag has been open!! The bore diameter is anywhere from .680" to .691" (measured at the seam), and the balls are sadly and horrifically misshapen!!! I believe the humidity will affect diameter, that's why I will include it in the test!!!

AO nickname: Toymyster
Paint Manufacturer: X Enterprises
Paint name: Steel Balls
How many weeks old: 16-20 weeks
Dry paint: No

Day one: 12/19/01
Time: 12:30 pm
Temp: 72f
Bounce test of individual numbers 1-10
0,2,3,3,3,1,0,6,0,11,1
Bounce average: 3bounces
Comments: Extremely brittle paint, very old and misshapen.

Day two: 12/20/01
Time: 1:45pm
Temp: 68f
Bounce test of individual numbers 1-10
9,3,2,2,2,2,6,4,4,2
Bounce average: 3.6 bounces
Comments: Although still brittle, They seem much more consistent. Their shape was still ugly, and the diameter was between .685" to .691"

Day three: 12/21/01
Time: 1:25pm
Temp: 62f
Bounce test of individual numbers 1-10
3,7,4,6,2,2,2,3,4,4
Bounce average: 3.7 bounces
Comments: Not as brittle as first day. A lot more consistent also. I don't think anything can help the shape, and the diameter was between .685" to .693"

[MajorDamage]

Second day results

AO nickname - MajorDamage
Manufacturer of paint- 32 Degrees
Name of paint (Blaze, Advantage etc)- San Fransisco Team Colors
How many weeks old is this paint? - I bought this Saturday, but I think its about 1 to 2 months old.
Is this dry paint? - no

Date-12/19/01
Time- 5:10
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10 - 1, 6, 6, 0, 4, 1, 18, 2, 2, 2
Bounce average - 4.2
Comments- I guess it got a little better, and it stayed about the same bore size(I check it)

ENDO!

[marc]

AO nickname: marc
Manufacturer: unknown
Name of paint: Big Ball
Age: 2 weeks old
Dry paint: No

Date: 12-19-01
Time:6:30PM
Bounce results: 2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,7,11 (not in order)3,3,6,5,3,4,11,7,2,4 (in order)
Bounce average:4.8
Comment: This is bag 1


AO nickname: marc
Manufacturer: unknown
Name of paint: Big Ball
Age: 2 weeks old
Dry paint: No

Date: 12-19-01
Time:6:35PM
Bounce results: 1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,4,4(not in order)(in order)2,4,4,2,1,1,2,2,1,2
Bounce average:4.8
Comment: This is bag 2

[marc]

Sorry for bag 2 the average was 2.1. Hope it did not mess you up Tom. O and sorry for not doing this sooner but I had a report to do over the weekend and it took longer than I expected, and all yesterday my brother was on the computer, also doing a report(dont you think that students get way too much home work). I will get another bag for testing this weekend (country clubs paintball's paint)

[marc]

Hey tom just wanted to give this to you this is my control of the exparemnt (as in i didnt use any salt water mix but everything else the same, but im sure you know what a control is anyways. I had to do this for extra credit, hope it helps you
AO nickname: marc
Manufacturer: unknown
Name of paint: Big Ball
Age: 2 weeks old
Dry paint: No

Date: 12-19-01
Time:7:00PM
Bounce results: 1,2,2,2,3,3,5,5,6,7(not in order)2,7,5,3,2,3,2,1,6,5(in order)
Bounce average:3.6
Comment: This is controll bag

[MajorDamage]

LOL Without the saltwater mix that proves nothing lol. Oh, and Marc, Bigball is dry paint, it has that oilless shell.

ENDO!

[toymyster]

Marc, I believe the whole point of this experiment is the effect of controlled humidity on the paintball!!! You need the salt dough to conduct the experiment!!! By the way, I'm using a lided plastic container instead of a bag!!!
If this works, I'm building a humidor for my paintballs!!!!!

[AGD]

Thanks Guys!

Keep the data coming. Please remember to edit your old posts so we have all the data for each run on the same post.

AGD

[marc]

Ok so Im confused what do you (Tom) mean by dry paint, the shell or the paint itself because I have herd of some paint that is dry, unwashable its hard to understand but it is called dry paint. An major Im just doing what my teacher told me to do. An anyways an exparement needs to be conpared or you just prove how long the paintballs are good for in a certian humity, I have to see what is bette, humitity controlled or just a shut bag

[MajorDamage]

All RP paint has a dry shell with no oil on it, thats dry paint ;)

ENDO!

[marc]

O know why I thought that it was not dry, because tom wrote like is the paint dry, not the shell, I might have missinterperated this Tom can you help me out on this. And I have a little problem it says to add a cretin amount of water not a certian amount of salt, look at my diagram

[marc]

well my diagram wont go up anybody no how i can bring it down to the maximum bites

[AGD]

Marc,

Dry paint means the shell type. You should only put a small amount of water in the salt paste.

AGD

[marc]

Well sorry and Major you were right about the shell thing. I barrely added any water and made sure it was just lumpy. but I ll explain what I meant because my diagram didnt work: If you have a cup that has a diameter of 5 inches and 2 inches high of salt in it it has more salt than a cup with a diameter of 3 inches and 2 inches high of salt in it. so if someone didnt pay attention they might have messed theirs up. here is all my info.

Bag 1
AO Member name:marc
Manufacturer: I dont know
Name of paint:Big Ball
How old: 2 weeks bought
is it dry: yes

date: 12-20-01
Time:7:00pm
Bounce results: 2,2,8,9,11,11,12,12,13,24(not in order)11,2,9,2,8,11,12,13,12,24 (in order)
bounce average:10,4
Comments:Im not making this up it was really 24 bounces

Bag 2
AO Member name:marc
Manufacturer: I dont know
Name of paint:Big Ball
How old: 2 weeks bought
is it dry: yes

date: 12-20-01
Time:7:17
Bounce results:1,1,2,2,6,9,11,12,13,30 (not in order)1,11,13,9,1,2,30,2,6,12 (in order)
bounce average:8.7
Comments:Ya 30 bounces I didnt make that up either

Controll bag
AO Member name:marc
Manufacturer: I dont know
Name of paint:Big Ball
How old: 2 weeks bought
is it dry: yes

date: 12-20-01
Time:7:34
Bounce results: 1,1,2,3,3,5,7,7,10,15(not in order)10,5,2,1,7,3,1,15,3,7 (in order)
bounce average:5.4
Comments:

[toymyster]

I just added my day 2 results to my other post!!! This is looking interesting already!!!

[MajorDamage]

Yep...I'm always right...46% of the time is always, right? lol :)

ENDO!

[Russ]

AO Research Team Paintball Test for Humidity

Start of test - 12-21-01

AO nickname - Russ
Manufacturer of paint - Zap
Name of paint - Performance Plus, Blutonium
How many weeks old is this paint? - 4 weeks in the store
Is this dry paint? - N

Date - 12-21-01
Time - 12:00am
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
0,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1
Bounce average - .4
Comments - No wonder I broke so much paint tonight!



After one day in humidor...
Date - 12-21-01
Time - 11:40pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
0,0,0,1,0,2,4,0,2,0
Bounce average - .9
Comments - This stuff just doesn't break, it explodes!


After two days in humidor...
Date - 12-22-01
Time - 11:50pm
Bounce test results individual numbers 1-10
1,3,4,1,1,0,0,0,0,2
Bounce average - 1.2
Comments - Too bad I bought 3 cases of this stuff!

[toymyster]

Just updated my post recording day 3!!!

[Russ]

Let's keep it on the front page. C'mon guys, Tom needs your help! Test some of that "Christmas Paint" :)

[marc]

hey i got all my stuff and stats recorded but i just dont have enought time to type them out to night to let you know i didnt bail out. i should post them in after noon bye

[AGD]

Thread closed for data processing. Special thanks to the dedicated AO'ers who participated in this experiment.

AGD