Time for something new

[black tri star]

After been playing with my phantom and my minimag for a while I've decided to get something new something a little more "high end" I'm comong off of pump play so I don't shot much and I'm looking for accuracy, ruling out angels and other such guns. I'm thinking along the lines of an E2 karni or maybe a shocker, Emag. I can't really make up my mind. any suggestions?

[jenarelJAM]

my opinion... don't go karny or e2, because its basicly a cocker with its unique milling and an e2, and the e2 isn't enough of an upgrade over the e1 to warrant several hundred $'s.
don't go shocker either because its overpriced
I would vote emag or viking, both are extremely dependable guns. both will be able to shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. the emag has mech backup, the viking has incredible efficiency. the emag has lvl10, the viking has eyes. look into the viking and emag a bit more, I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised... :clap:

[master_alexander]

e mag or an x mag. warped, if emag, get a new rail and ule the whole thing, predator board nd anno it orange, just like the 1970 Judge GTO, itll be the judge of all guns.

yea i have though about this for a while...

[68magOwner]

I'm comong off of pump play so I don't shot much and I'm looking for accuracy, ruling out angels and other such guns.

you do realize that ALL markers will have the same "accuracy" given the same paint to barrel match right? :rolleyes:

anyway, my personal suggestions would be something AKA (viking/excal) or a proto matrix

[St Elmo's Fire]

you do realize that ALL markers will have the same "accuracy" given the same paint to barrel match right? :rolleyes:

anyway, my personal suggestions would be something AKA (viking/excal) or a proto matrix

Nonsense. He's wanting consistency in the airflow as well. That does affect the shot. I'll go with the first mate, and suggest an E-Mag or something AKA.

[Wassupstranger67]

The shockers are nice and they should be comming down in price vary soon, i think i can sell a vision shocker for about $800 and the vision with the maxflow for about $1350 The freestyles are about $700. If you want a little cheaper B2K's are about $500 with PDS. Or bob long alias for a $1000.

[minimag03]

Angels are just as accurate as all other markers, so keep that in mind while buying. I'd suggest and Excal. It is basicly a closed bolt Viking with very little kick. If you dont like Excals most trixs will give you what you are looking for.

[WARPED1]

my opinion... don't go karny or e2, because its basicly a cocker with its unique milling and an e2, and the e2 isn't enough of an upgrade over the e1 to warrant several hundred $'s.
don't go shocker either because its overpriced
I would vote emag or viking, both are extremely dependable guns. both will be able to shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. the emag has mech backup, the viking has incredible efficiency. the emag has lvl10, the viking has eyes. look into the viking and emag a bit more, I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised... :clap:
The Shocker is not overpriced. You just must still be holding somewhat of a grudge for SP's stupid legal moves they tried. If you want real Shocker info, go to www.shockerowners.com






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[slade]

The shockers are nice and they should be comming down in price vary soon, i think i can sell a vision shocker for about $800 and the vision with the maxflow for about $1350 The freestyles are about $700. If you want a little cheaper B2K's are about $500 with PDS. Or bob long alias for a $1000.
shockers are less than that. i picked up my freestyle for $445 (best gun for the price, IMO) and b2k4s with eyes are somewhere around $300. alias's are still around 800 or 900 used.

[WARPED1]

Stock vision Shockers cost me about $700.

[Athius]

Macdev Cyborg for $600 at paintballkingdom.com

This is the best electro and best deal ever.

1700 shots from a 45/4500. Now that is efficient.

[AGD202]

lmao are u KIDDING???? 800 for a vision shocker?! i just got mine brand new burnt orange w/ vision and ramping for $725.... and i could get one w/o vision for lower $600's

i would look at shockers too, i have never seen one that was not acurate or one that breaks a lot

[dolphin1823]

After been playing with my phantom and my minimag for a while I've decided to get something new something a little more "high end" I'm comong off of pump play so I don't shot much and I'm looking for accuracy, ruling out angels and other such guns. I'm thinking along the lines of an E2 karni or maybe a shocker, Emag. I can't really make up my mind. any suggestions?

do you have any upgrades on your mini-mag? (lv 10 bolt, ule body ?) If so, you may want to look into getting some E-mag lowers, you won't have to buy an new barrel or air set up (drop forward, on/off, hoses, fittings) If not, I'd go for a completely different gun, and hold on to your mag as a back-up.

[68magOwner]

Nonsense. He's wanting consistency in the airflow as well. That does affect the shot.

consistency affects a markers precision, not accuracy, but, thats a different story, what high end marker isnt consistent? none of them, so, once again, all the markers he is looking at (high end) will have the same "accuracy"

[warbeak2099]

Impulses and Shockers aren't that consistant out of the box and they're higher end. An Lpr fixes that right up though.

[b&r automag]

I would go for the Shocker. Accuracy, consistency.......blah.....blah...blah......... Just fine tune any marker and find the correct bore to ball size and any marker is just as good as the other marker. The main thing, maybe the only thing that can make a marker better than another is the person playing behind it, and especially how well he maintains his marker (which brings me to my main point.) Maintenence on the shocker is just as easy as a mag, if not easier. Just take everything out thru the back, clean, lube, and presto changeo, shes ready to rock again. The bolt internals in a shocker are so simple.

I got mine (05 shocker) for 650 BN. It has Vision and the Nerve Board. The only adjustment I had to make on it was that I had to turn down my rate of fire because this thing is really fast. My aiming was not really that great from the start. People would not even tuck in when going heads up with me :( , but now they sort of pay attention to where I am. I also have a e2 mini half block cocker. The only thing crappy is when I get hit on the gun, the cleaning is pretty cumbersome. The shocker is super light and really small. When you get hit on the marker it is very easy to clean. I had this gun for about a month, ran about 10 cases of paint thru it and still did not chop a ball. I run a 45/45 tank and it handles my 5 pods and hopper (that's almost 650+ shots). I guess the only BAD thing about this marker is how fast it shoots. You try not to spray the paint, but you just can't help it.

I stand behind a Shocker 100%. The main thing is how easy it is to take apart and clean!...not to mention it's really small and light! Performance wise...I actually can get 1 kill for the day, and people now take note of me more as to where I am on the field.....but honestly, my pb skills still suck. Get the shocker, you won't be dissapointed!

[Wassupstranger67]

lmao are u KIDDING???? 800 for a vision shocker?! i just got mine brand new burnt orange w/ vision and ramping for $725.... and i could get one w/o vision for lower $600's

i would look at shockers too, i have never seen one that was not acurate or one that breaks a lot
Really where did you buy it at???

[VFX_Fenix]

don't go shocker either because its overpriced
I would vote emag or viking


Back the truck up here.... You do realise that a Vision Shocker is one of the cheapest of the "high end" guns performance guns out there AND cheaper than EITHER of your choices AND comes with enhanced firing modes AND are in current production with a reasonable number of mods/ups AND comes with Eyes (and before people start screaming "but is only has a reflective eye," wel guess what, break beam "eyes" have just as many elements as the Vision eye, a transmitter and reciever, also reflective eyes can be tuned more precicely so that they don't shoot things they aren't supposed to, like ball bearings and what-not).

Also

Shockers see better consistancy over the chrono with the stock bolt kit vs. the HE bolt kit, and in all reality since you're using comp air ANYWAY you should either be playing at a field with air OR carry your own SCUBA so the HE kit, while an upgrade, is one that you don't "need" in order to make the Shocker "better" on anything other than air usage.

Not to mention that you can buy an Ultimate Vision Shocker for under $1000 and get a great air system with it. Can you do that with the E-Mag? No. The Viking? I think not. Karnivor? Not unless you're in good with WGP.

In the "Bang for your New Gun Dollar" competition, the Shocker wins hands down. You get one of the best air systems and barrels on the market with the purchase of the gun (if you get the ultimate, otherwise just the barrel) and all the enhanced firing modes that the popular tournament serries allow.

Consistancy in muzzle velocity from shot to shot = consistant ball placement which translates into "accuracy" in the lay-person's mind.

Consistancy of muzzle velocity comes from good air flow through regulators (recharge) and other air channels at all RoF's.

The Max Flow is one of the best breathing regulators on the market with consistant muzzle velocity (tested myself with a Pred II powered Shocker over a radar chrono) beyond the feeding capacity of a HALO B in full auto. Beyond 50bps in dry firing the marker starts to starve for air in full auto.


EDIT - Also the Shocker will feel much like an Automag when you one, my biggest complaint about the Shocker and just about every other SP gun is the trigger. I've tried the stock trigger and the NDZ trigger and neither of them work for me on the shocker as far as how they feel. Shooting them they're great and I'm very glad I did get to play with my friend's, almost convinced me to buy one actually lol.

[WARPED1]

Back the truck up here.... You do realise that a Vision Shocker is one of the cheapest of the "high end" guns performance guns out there AND cheaper than EITHER of your choices AND comes with enhanced firing modes AND are in current production with a reasonable number of mods/ups AND comes with Eyes (and before people start screaming "but is only has a reflective eye," wel guess what, break beam "eyes" have just as many elements as the Vision eye, a transmitter and reciever, also reflective eyes can be tuned more precicely so that they don't shoot things they aren't supposed to, like ball bearings and what-not).

Also

Shockers see better consistancy over the chrono with the stock bolt kit vs. the HE bolt kit, and in all reality since you're using comp air ANYWAY you should either be playing at a field with air OR carry your own SCUBA so the HE kit, while an upgrade, is one that you don't "need" in order to make the Shocker "better" on anything other than air usage.

Not to mention that you can buy an Ultimate Vision Shocker for under $1000 and get a great air system with it. Can you do that with the E-Mag? No. The Viking? I think not. Karnivor? Not unless you're in good with WGP.

In the "Bang for your New Gun Dollar" competition, the Shocker wins hands down. You get one of the best air systems and barrels on the market with the purchase of the gun (if you get the ultimate, otherwise just the barrel) and all the enhanced firing modes that the popular tournament serries allow.

Consistancy in muzzle velocity from shot to shot = consistant ball placement which translates into "accuracy" in the lay-person's mind.

Consistancy of muzzle velocity comes from good air flow through regulators (recharge) and other air channels at all RoF's.

The Max Flow is one of the best breathing regulators on the market with consistant muzzle velocity (tested myself with a Pred II powered Shocker over a radar chrono) beyond the feeding capacity of a HALO B in full auto. Beyond 50bps in dry firing the marker starts to starve for air in full auto.
:clap: :clap: :dance: :hail: :hail:
NOT EVERYONE ON AO IS A MINDLESS ZOMBIE! I knew there were a few of you, but it's just nice to see one.

[minimag03]

Not to mention that you can buy an Ultimate Vision Shocker for under $1000 and get a great air system with it. Can you do that with the E-Mag? No. The Viking? I think not. Karnivor? Not unless you're in good with WGP.
Why not? You can buyt nib Viking for $775 and buy a nib Dynaflow for $250.


In the "Bang for your New Gun Dollar" competition, the Shocker wins hands down.
Nib Viking, $775. Again, not hands down.


The Max Flow is one of the best breathing regulators on the market with consistant muzzle velocity (tested myself with a Pred II powered Shocker over a radar chrono) beyond the feeding capacity of a HALO B in full auto. Beyond 50bps in dry firing the marker starts to starve for air in full auto.
I would love to see a video of this testing the Shocker at 50 cps.

I like a lot of SP's stuff so don't think I'm just another hater.

[VFX_Fenix]

Why not? You can buyt nib Viking for $775 and buy a nib Dynaflow for $250.


Nib Viking, $775. Again, not hands down.


I would love to see a video of this testing the Shocker at 50 cps.

I like a lot of SP's stuff so don't think I'm just another hater.

http://www.akalmp.com/markers.htm <- NIB 04 Viking Unmilled $999

[FallNAngel]

1700 shots from a 45/4500. Now that is efficient.

That's a load is what that is. Unless you're shooting the paintballs at some rediculously slow speed, there's no way you'll get that kind of efficiency. 1700 on a 45/4500 equates to basically 2,500 on a 68/4500. Are they efficient? Sure.. about as efficient as most any other well tuned stacked tube electro will be... perhaps a bit better. But not that efficient.


(and before people start screaming "but is only has a reflective eye," wel guess what, break beam "eyes" have just as many elements as the Vision eye, a transmitter and reciever, also reflective eyes can be tuned more precicely so that they don't shoot things they aren't supposed to, like ball bearings and what-not).

Yes, but it also relies on the software *MUCH* more, especially to do things such as not shoot ball bearings. Granted BB eyes can't do that at all, but my point is, it's not a huge selling point... the software has to support it... IIRC it doesn't stock.


In the "Bang for your New Gun Dollar" competition, the Shocker wins hands down. You get one of the best air systems and barrels on the market with the purchase of the gun (if you get the ultimate, otherwise just the barrel) and all the enhanced firing modes that the popular tournament serries allow.

That depends... you could also look at 05 Freestyles as well, which will get efficiency about on par with the Shocker (perhaps slightly better stock). Do you get all the enhanced modes (What enhanced modes? Only enhanced mode I know of on a Shocker is rebound)? No... but really, how many people really use them and don't have to use a sponsored gun anyway?


The Max Flow is one of the best breathing regulators on the market with consistant muzzle velocity (tested myself with a Pred II powered Shocker over a radar chrono) beyond the feeding capacity of a HALO B in full auto.

What other guns / regulators did you also test?


Beyond 50bps in dry firing the marker starts to starve for air in full auto.[/b]

You mean 50cps ... which basically means nothing.

[usmc8892]

give the angel speed 2005 a whirl...all i have added is an aftermarket barrel, haven't had any problems at all since the initial break in and learning curve.

[minimag03]

http://www.akalmp.com/markers.htm <- NIB 04 Viking Unmilled $999

Dan, and AKA master tech, sells them for $775.

[VFX_Fenix]

True, should be CPS, and I've based statements on Have Blue's Dyno test of various regulators, granted, not a be all end all, but eh, it's better than anythinhg else I could have provided reguarding recharge anyway.

Point about the Freestyle - though that wasn't one of his "list guns" - is none the less a good marker and would be a good candidate coming in at around $100+ less than the vision shocker though if he wanted to use any enhanced modes of fire he'd have to buy an aftermarket board which would cost at least $100 (unless there's something out from Vaporworks, but I haven't looked into that). A high quality adjustable air system will also put the cost of the Freestyle on par with the Ultimate Shocker.

The Enhanced firing modes are also kinda iffy but so far as I know Rebound is legal for NXL/Millenium/PSP play as well as true semi for NPPL play. Also the Nerve board is programable for various versions of rebound from so called "fast ramping" to the gradual adding of shots to a set ROF.

There are implications in my original post which would indicate that more extensive testing was done, I did not intend to lead anyone to this conclusion at the time I wrote the initial reply. I do know that my E-Mag in 6-shot (the joys of 1.37 software) is also very consistant over the chrono with a Max-Flow attached though that doesn't mean as much when considering the nature of the Mag Valve. The only other gun I'd done any reasonable testing with over a chrono is an Ion in F/A which also is pretty consistant with the stock regulator being fed by a Max-Flow.

THe comment about the 50cps, which does indeed say very little, was more to give an idea as to how fast the Shocker can physically cycle being fed air with a Max-Flow. I suppose if you'd like I can try it out with a Flatline in a few months when I get back home.


Dan, and AKA master tech, sells them for $775.

Okay, I believe you, but I'm curious to see a link to his storefront where he sells these.

In any event the price quoted is still only $20 less than a Vision Shocker from PBgear.com (a commonly known source of gear)

[minimag03]

50 cps doesn't sound right. If they could cycle that fast, then you would hear people talking (or bragging) about it more often.

[VFX_Fenix]

50 cps doesn't sound right. If they could cycle that fast, then you would hear people talking (or bragging) about it more often.

It's something that we played with when my friend got his Pred. board. The gun will cycle completely at 50cps but it can't physically shoot that fast because there isn't enough air to shoot a ball. The fastest we've ever gotten it to shoot with paint was with a HALO B with Vision on. We do know that if you crank it much past 14 w/o the eyes in F/A with a HALO B and it'll start outshooting the HALO after the initial pre-winding of the drive cup spring has run out.

EDIT - I should also mention that at 50cps the 'noid on my friend's Shocker started having issues which allowed for the gun to cycle for maybe 10-15 seconds at that ROF before the 'noid would get stuck and he'd have to take it appart to manually reset the noid. Soooooo... while the Shocker IS capable, I guess you could say it isn't "recommended" Much above 40cps yields similar results with shoot-down and noid issues but above 50 the Shocker noticibly misses shots for one reason or another.

[viper_ssc]

Yea, well I got my shocker for only $4 :p , I love raffles.
I love my shocker, it's fast, light, and small. Only complaints are mine has no vision, I think the trigger guard is too small, and the stock smart parts asa doesn't work with all tanks.
Personally, I'd recommend the cyborg for $600, that's the best deal you'll probably find.

[LeatherPants]

Proto Matrix.

I own a DM5, Alias, just got rid of a '04 Featherlite Viking, owned 2 E-Blades, 2 Impulses and 4 mechanical cockers.

My primary marker right now is the Proto. Less kick than a Viking. More efficient than a DM5, multiple boards available, and tons of parts.

I shoot alot of paint. I average 3 cases a weekend 3 times a month. The Proto has been working well for me. I was having chopping issues with the Viking in the end.

Dye has great customer service. I broke a wire harness. Emailed them and they sent me a new one.

You can find Protos NIB for under $700.

[SpitFire1299]

http://home.cwru.edu/~aag10/classics/shocker/shocker.gif
I got a shocker for free!


I say get an emag.. there very reliable.