Doubt is creeping into my mind.

[cdacda13]

I am about to get a Flied angel speed.
This is my first time spending a huge amount of money on anything, so I worried about making the wrong choice.
And, theres a little voice in my head saying"Get a viking, its better"
So, insted of argueing with myself(and looking like an idoit) Ill let you guys do that ;)
So, which is better, an 04 viking or a Flied angel speed

[Jackel411]

Keep in mind vikings are no longer made..

[magman007]

the viking is a better marker, but i still dont reccomend it. Honestly, spend the money on a new proto. I shoot a dm5 and absolutely love it. With the proces dropping on the protos, you can snatch a top class marker up for a really good deal. they will shoot smoother than an angel or a viling ( ive owned both, an 04 speed, and a 04 featherlight viking) i wasnt impressed with either. i really reccomend the proto, i cant stress that enough

[magman007]

Keep in mind vikings are no longer made..


neither are 04 speeds

[RRfireblade]

Niether gun is "Better".

Both are faster than you and both can be equally consistant (accurate),Viking will be more efficient,Speeds going to lower in profile and lighter in most cases.So all that's left is cost and preferance.

Right now Vikings are WAY WAY WAY over priced IMO. I've had people offer $2000 for mine (DC), pure madness. $1500 is pretty standard for anything milled and $1000 for 04 stock. Unlesss you must have a viking I'd go with what best fits your budget.

Jay.

[RRfireblade]

Proto would be a great chioce but not one he was choosing from. ;)

[cdacda13]

I tought about the proto, but I dont like spool valve.

I have seen viking (unmilled 04s) for 700-800. Thats not a bad price.
But the flied speed will cost only 675$ shipped.

I dont know what to do.

[68magOwner]

Right now Vikings are WAY WAY WAY over priced IMO. I've had people offer $2000 for mine (DC), pure madness. $1500 is pretty standard for anything milled and $1000 for 04 stock. Unlesss you must have a viking I'd go with what best fits your budget.

Jay.

not at all, 04 vikings can be had for ~$700 now with some ups, and, i am in love with mine, it is the smoothest marker i have shot (less kick than teammates DM5, really), most consistent thing i have seen (+-2 all the time), super fast (unless i have to play in psp mode, no fun), feels really nice in my hands, just not enough good things i can say about this marker, now, my team has had 3 other vikings, none of which performed at the level of my current one, so, mabey i just have the god of all vikings, but, right now, i wouldnt rather shoot anything else

[RRfireblade]

Sounds like your answer ther if you read my post. ;)

Your not going to see much of a performance difference between the 2 IMO, especially if this is your first 'Highend' marker. Put the extra money into paint and air.

[RRfireblade]

not at all, 04 vikings can be had for ~$700 now with some ups, and, i am in love with mine, it is the smoothest marker i have shot (less kick than teammates DM5, really)


Yeah unmilled probably. Like I said, can get a Speed w/ ACE for less. :)

And IMO , no way a Viking,Timmy,any other hammer ram based marker, has less recoil than a spool valve gun . ;)

But.....

Shoot 'em both, buy what you like and what fit's into your budget.Your the only one who has to like it.

That's all I'm going to say anymore here.

[cdacda13]

Sounds like your answer ther if you read my post. ;)

Your not going to see much of a performance difference between the 2 IMO, especially if this is your first 'Highend' marker. Put the extra money into paint and air.
Not first high end, I owned a mag. Thats high end mechcanical. ;)

[tony3]

Only exception to that is a stock shocker vs any angel with tuned evolve kit.

[68magOwner]

And IMO , no way a Viking,Timmy,any other hammer ram based marker, has less recoil than a spool valve gun . ;)



well, your wrong, and thats my opinon :rolleyes: ;)

[MadPSIence]

I'll say an Excalibur is smoother.

[RRfireblade]

well, your wrong, and thats my opinon :rolleyes: ;)

K, you win. ;)

[teufelhunden]

I'll say an Excalibur is smoother.


It's cute that you have such a woody for that gun.. ya know, it's really not the be all to end all. Or close.

[TDonovan]

I'd take the speed out of those two. Vikings are efficient, fast, & reliable, but they aren't for me. Just a little too big for my tastes.

[Conversekidz]

i am getting rid of my proto, i hate it, even has virtue.

I am sticking with my 04 viking with a tadao board, the viking will shoot a true 23bps with the tadao board (sound verified) and gets twice the effeciancy that the proto gets.

Yes the viking is no longer made, but aka is still in business and there are still a number of places you can get your yearly tune ups on the viking.

[68magOwner]

i dont see why people are pointing out that the viking is no londer made, buecause neither is the 04 speed, so, that dosent make a difference, both markers can still be readily teched if need be, and both still have upgrades comming out for each

with the arrival of tadao for vikings, aka owners are getting re-hyped (i personally will not be picking up tadao unless i get spare cash, because my pandora board is fast as hell and has the psp modes i need as well, so, i see no need, but, thats just me)

[tony3]

i am getting rid of my proto, i hate it, even has virtue.

I am sticking with my 04 viking with a tadao board, the viking will shoot a true 23bps with the tadao board (sound verified) and gets twice the effeciancy that the proto gets.

Yes the viking is no longer made, but aka is still in business and there are still a number of places you can get your yearly tune ups on the viking.

A true 23 bps will really help you, wait no. You will never shoot that fast legally. efficency on protos really isn't that bad. You get 1200ish on a 68/45 fill which is about standard. Vikings dont get 2400 on a 68/45. Why does it matter so much anyways. Most decent fields have pushbutton fill stations which take about 1 second for you to fill.

[WARPED1]

The whole point of the Viking not being made isn't that the Vikings no longer made, but that the guys who invented it and stuff are no longer with the company. And STD's site seems to no longer exist.

[Banshee23]

http://www.stdindustries.com/

Seems to work for me :)

Oh, & between those two I'd take the Viking.

[WARPED1]

Seems to work today, last night it wouldn't. Odd.

[rkjunior303]

How's the warranty with WDP?

Lifetime warranty with my Viking.

Good reason to buy one, to me..

[Banshee23]

Angels only come with a six month warranty... But the Vik's warranty is only good for the first owner. If you're getting it used & the warranty card was previously sent in then you have to have it recertified first at one of AKA's techs, costs around $50 I believe.

[magman007]

not at all, 04 vikings can be had for ~$700 now with some ups, and, i am in love with mine, it is the smoothest marker i have shot (less kick than teammates DM5, really), most consistent thing i have seen (+-2 all the time), super fast (unless i have to play in psp mode, no fun), feels really nice in my hands, just not enough good things i can say about this marker, now, my team has had 3 other vikings, none of which performed at the level of my current one, so, mabey i just have the god of all vikings, but, right now, i wouldnt rather shoot anything else


well, you must have a really odd idea of perception, because it is physically imposible for a hammer riven marker to opperate smoother than a spoolvalved marker. your team mate must be a complete retard, and either A have his dwell way too low and his lpr too high, or you just suck at having nerves.

yes i have shot vikings with mightymaxes and perfectly tuned, still alot more kick ( which really bothers me) than my dm5, or my dm4, or my toxic matrix. or any shocker i have ever shot.

[barrel break]

Or an Ion for that matter (In "kick")
I think Protos are a great deal right now.
Of those two I would go for the angel, I just love speeds.

[onedude36]

Also kick does depend on what kind of drop you have. My friend shoots a timmy with a duckbill and a 68/30 which doesnt kick. Others report noticeable kick. Longer is less kick.

BTW: I would pick the viking. They are just sexy to me.

[WARPED1]

You can't go wrong with the Proto now, look at those prices.

[dahoeb]

oh gosh...."it is physically impossible that it has less kick, blablabla". whatever

i've never shot a dm4/5 so i'm not gonna comment on their recoil, but i have shot most other markers, mags, angels, timmies, what have you, and the viking takes the cake in every case. its got less recoil than any of those markers, is more efficient and more accurate (due to less kick, not the gnomes).
before you go saying a spool valve has less kick, blablabla, think about this; a mag has one significant moving object, the bolt. now we all know the bolt is small and is light, but we also know that mags (more notably, ule mags in my experience) have more kick than quite a few markers. a viking has a lot more parts moving back and forth inside than a mag but still less kick...odd isn't it? but its true for my mags.

maybe its the weight, which is what i think. a lighter marker isn't gonna be quite as stable as heavier one. my old all steel mag had little noticeble recoil i remember. but when i got my xmag i was suprised at that kick. if you have a steel barrel, that will also make a difference.

and if the marker is longer, again, you'll probably have a little less noticeable kick.

so just think about the setup of the marker before you go off and start a flame war saying this has less recoil than this or that marker.

and to answer this thread: i was thinking about getting an angel before the viking, but i decided to go ahead and give the viking a chance. this has been the best purchase in paintball i've made yet. its thoroughly exceeded all my expectations in every categorie. people that own vikings show that they've got a style and class of their own and aren't afraid to be different, so that just gives it even more points. sure its ugly as sin, but once you get out there and start hammering on that trigger, the milling on your marker isn't gonna win the game for you. plus you can just get it annoed or milled later if you want. then you'll truly have a unique marker, you won't just be the run of the mill angel or dm4 totin player that we've all seen before. plus, you can always sell your viking and get an angel if you don't like it, but if you pass up the chance to get a viking, you may not ever get another chance at using one. theres good reasons that viking have high resale values and are in high demand, its cause they have outstanding performance. they probably have some of the best bang for the buck. at dbnpaintball.com you can get used vikings for 650-750. i bought my brand new 04' from there, with pandora and eyes for 750, they're definatly not 1500....

[dahoeb]

You can't go wrong with the Proto now, look at those prices.

he said he doesn't want a proto or dm4/5, he wants a viking or an angel. let it go.

[Southparkrocks]

While the viking doesn't have the greatest resale anymore, all angels have horrible resale, if you ever want a new gun it's gonna be a ***** to sell or trade it.

[WARPED1]

he said he doesn't want a proto or dm4/5, he wants a viking or an angel. let it go.
Oh, I missed that, ok then. Go WDP!







____________________________

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Go to Berkshire Paintball! (http://warped1fl.tripod.com/)

[Conversekidz]

A true 23 bps will really help you, wait no. You will never shoot that fast legally. efficency on protos really isn't that bad. You get 1200ish on a 68/45 fill which is about standard. Vikings dont get 2400 on a 68/45. Why does it matter so much anyways. Most decent fields have pushbutton fill stations which take about 1 second for you to fill.



funny on my field its allowed, so yes 23 does help.


Yes that is pretty good with the proto, but when the viking will get twice the shots on the same fill it does give you an advantage when you can only get 3k fills (such as the field I play at).

So unless you know my playing style, or where I play you really say an statement like you did.



Honestly get the viking, get it with either a pandora or tadao board an you will be set.

[Conversekidz]

While the viking doesn't have the greatest resale anymore, all angels have horrible resale, if you ever want a new gun it's gonna be a ***** to sell or trade it.


actually 04 vikings are going for almost the same price as new.

[Torbo]

get it, if you dont like it trade it. its not that hard. Its not like youre bound to keep the gun for ever if you dont like it.

[JimmyBeam]

if i had to make the decision id go with the Viking in a heartbeat

[cdacda13]

Well, after argueing with myself, i bought something else.

a Red A4 Fly, is my new baby.

[WARPED1]

Well, after argueing with myself, i bought something else.

a Red A4 Fly, is my new baby.
Good choice.

[Sparta]

Don't forget about the new Defiant 2's. They are only 695 from just about anywhere that has them, and they have the same board as new Alias Timmy's - but without the LCD. You can't really upgrade the reg (it's reverse threaded), but it's a REALLY great reg to begin with.

[tony3]

funny on my field its allowed, so yes 23 does help.
Yes that is pretty good with the proto, but when the viking will get twice the shots on the same fill it does give you an advantage when you can only get 3k fills (such as the field I play at).
So unless you know my playing style, or where I play you really say an statement like you did.
Honestly get the viking, get it with either a pandora or tadao board an you will be set.

So your field allows uncapped ramping or whatever firing mode you want? That sounds quite safe to me. I don't even think you realize how fast 23bps really is, hell I know I run my gun is psp ramping mode at 15bps and that is pretty damn fast. I can almost guarentee you aren't shooting 23bps normal even with ramping modes. How much paint do you shoot in a day? Shooting 23 bps you will shot a bag of 500 is 21 seconds. So a case of paint lasts you 84 seconds in theory? Sorry I don't know you style of play because it sounds frankly like you are lying unless you play outlaw ball which is pretty unsafe if you allow people to shoot 23 bps.

[magman007]

oh gosh...."it is physically impossible that it has less kick, blablabla". whatever

i've never shot a dm4/5 so i'm not gonna comment on their recoil, but i have shot most other markers, mags, angels, timmies, what have you, and the viking takes the cake in every case. its got less recoil than any of those markers, is more efficient and more accurate (due to less kick, not the gnomes).
before you go saying a spool valve has less kick, blablabla, think about this; a mag has one significant moving object, the bolt. now we all know the bolt is small and is light, but we also know that mags (more notably, ule mags in my experience) have more kick than quite a few markers. a viking has a lot more parts moving back and forth inside than a mag but still less kick...odd isn't it? but its true for my mags.

maybe its the weight, which is what i think. a lighter marker isn't gonna be quite as stable as heavier one. my old all steel mag had little noticeble recoil i remember. but when i got my xmag i was suprised at that kick. if you have a steel barrel, that will also make a difference.

and if the marker is longer, again, you'll probably have a little less noticeable kick.

so just think about the setup of the marker before you go off and start a flame war saying this has less recoil than this or that marker.

and to answer this thread: i was thinking about getting an angel before the viking, but i decided to go ahead and give the viking a chance. this has been the best purchase in paintball i've made yet. its thoroughly exceeded all my expectations in every categorie. people that own vikings show that they've got a style and class of their own and aren't afraid to be different, so that just gives it even more points. sure its ugly as sin, but once you get out there and start hammering on that trigger, the milling on your marker isn't gonna win the game for you. plus you can just get it annoed or milled later if you want. then you'll truly have a unique marker, you won't just be the run of the mill angel or dm4 totin player that we've all seen before. plus, you can always sell your viking and get an angel if you don't like it, but if you pass up the chance to get a viking, you may not ever get another chance at using one. theres good reasons that viking have high resale values and are in high demand, its cause they have outstanding performance. they probably have some of the best bang for the buck. at dbnpaintball.com you can get used vikings for 650-750. i bought my brand new 04' from there, with pandora and eyes for 750, they're definatly not 1500....



buddy, one word. Pressure. mags kick or have "barrel rise" due to pressure, higher pressure being released behind the ball that has to expand and a high rate to propel the ball down the barrel. every marker kicks, due to this pressure being released behind the ball. also the way the pressure is distributed.

now look, the matrix and the mag, baisically distribute the air in the same method, through the bolt the whole way. but the mag does it at a much higher pressure, even with lvl 10. where as the trix releases a lower pressure blast of air, Also consider how violently the bolt must push forewards, in what speed, to over come the spring holding it back.

ram driven markers kick as well, due to their opperation, and the release of the air. you understand now?

[Conversekidz]

So your field allows uncapped ramping or whatever firing mode you want? That sounds quite safe to me. I don't even think you realize how fast 23bps really is, hell I know I run my gun is psp ramping mode at 15bps and that is pretty damn fast. I can almost guarentee you aren't shooting 23bps normal even with ramping modes. How much paint do you shoot in a day? Shooting 23 bps you will shot a bag of 500 is 21 seconds. So a case of paint lasts you 84 seconds in theory? Sorry I don't know you style of play because it sounds frankly like you are lying unless you play outlaw ball which is pretty unsafe if you allow people to shoot 23 bps.


normal day of play for me is 2-3 cases in a day.
And yes I know how fast it is, and what makes 23 bps unsafe compared to 15? Its not like the gun goes off and gets stuck firing.

the fields rule is that you are not allowed to shoot a full auto, but uncapped ramping is allowed (yes its a stupid rule, but thats the fields rule, so I play with it).

The field is a woodsball field, its not like we are shooting 23 in close quarters like you would on an airball field.

If you have a problem with it, take it up with the field. Its American Canyon, its in American Canyon and its home team is the Hornets.

[Southparkrocks]

actually 04 vikings are going for almost the same price as new.

You still can sell your viking for 500, speed is like 400ish at most.

[TDonovan]

Don't forget about the new Defiant 2's. They are only 695 from just about anywhere that has them, and they have the same board as new Alias Timmy's - but without the LCD. You can't really upgrade the reg (it's reverse threaded), but it's a REALLY great reg to begin with.

You're kidding right? You can't replace the HPR? I checked one of them out today at the chicago open. INCREDIBLY light, VERY small, and had an awesome feel. Are you sure about that though, it would be incredibly stupid.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Don't forget about the new Defiant 2's. They are only 695 from just about anywhere that has them, and they have the same board as new Alias Timmy's - but without the LCD. You can't really upgrade the reg (it's reverse threaded), but it's a REALLY great reg to begin with.

where are they only 695? last i saw they were in the 800's :confused:

[Spartan X]

Niether gun is "Better".

Both are faster than you and both can be equally consistant (accurate),Viking will be more efficient,Speeds going to lower in profile and lighter in most cases.So all that's left is cost and preferance.

Right now Vikings are WAY WAY WAY over priced IMO. I've had people offer $2000 for mine (DC), pure madness. $1500 is pretty standard for anything milled and $1000 for 04 stock. Unlesss you must have a viking I'd go with what best fits your budget.

Jay.


It madness that5 you turned those down! You can get a unmilled and get it re-milled and anoed and all for less then what those guys ofefred you!


Custom Viking are going to around $1200 tops now

2003 customs under $1,000

non-custom ones are around $750 for a 2k4

and as cheap as $600 for a 2003 with eyes and was/pandora.


I have had MANY Many vikings, and excals, they are buy far5e the best guns I have ever shot.

Don't get me wrong I love how the proto's and dm's shoot, I'm actually a cirtified tech in them, I may even shoot one over my viking on a game day, but I chose the viking to OWN for the long run because they shoot just as good, and have a better maintanance record, and will last flat out forvere with out touching them. Can't say that for a DM.

[WARPED1]

where are they only 695? last i saw they were in the 800's :confused:
Google is your friend! :dance:

[SpecialBlend2786]

Google is your friend! :dance:

indeed, indeed it is

doh :tard:

[minimag03]

The red A4 Fly was a good choice. Both AKA and WDP are good companies that produce high quality markers. Also, if you ever get tired of the Fly, I'm sure a milled Viking owner would trade you.

[Sparta]

You're kidding right? You can't replace the HPR? I checked one of them out today at the chicago open. INCREDIBLY light, VERY small, and had an awesome feel. Are you sure about that though, it would be incredibly stupid.

I'm not kidding. The reg is reverse threaded, so until someone comes out with an adapter, you have to use the stock one.


where are they only 695? last i saw they were in the 800's :confused:

www.actionvillage.com. They're only 695 shipped.

[dahoeb]

buddy, one word. Pressure. mags kick or have "barrel rise" due to pressure, higher pressure being released behind the ball that has to expand and a high rate to propel the ball down the barrel. every marker kicks, due to this pressure being released behind the ball. also the way the pressure is distributed.

now look, the matrix and the mag, baisically distribute the air in the same method, through the bolt the whole way. but the mag does it at a much higher pressure, even with lvl 10. where as the trix releases a lower pressure blast of air, Also consider how violently the bolt must push forewards, in what speed, to over come the spring holding it back.

ram driven markers kick as well, due to their opperation, and the release of the air. you understand now?

the input pressure in a mag is a lot higher than that of a matrix, but actual bolt pressure is something like 90psi, give or take some, but its low. so i don't really think thats it.

if the marker is lighter, the marker won't be as stable. thats probably why when i had my all SS mag, i could hardly notice the recoil, the weight helped keep the marker stable.

theres probably a lot of physics at work here beyond the both of us, such as how the position of the bolt matter, and how it returns and who knows what else.

with the automag bolt, i agree, it does seem a little more violent, with that spring slamming it back like it does, so that could easily be a contributor. who knows.

[FSU_Paintball]

I gotta say, get a proto... I know that might seem stupid of me to say, but...

Vikings are nice, but they're not made any longer. Aside from that, AKA's quality control is really starting to slip since the big debacle over there and I wouldn't trust their warranty work to be the way it was.

Angels are nice, but I'm just not big on them. My teammate's 05 speed was very troublesome.

Protos are $675 new in the right place, are reliable, and very fast (get musashi 3). It's the "sweet spot".

[WARPED1]

All in all, the Proto is the best deal right now. The Vikings, while nice, are no longer made.
The Devilmag was a great idea, but poor Chris seems overwhelmed and may have bitten off more than he could chew, as they say. Go Proto..........