Ops! I did it again. AO First Look.

[CoolHand]

Many of you may have noticed that I have been a bit less active on AO for the last few months. Many projects have diverted my attention, but I wanted you all to know I hadn't forgotten about you.

Proof of this you ask? Sure.

Gentlemen. BEHOLD!

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UltimateMagFrame2DWire.jpg

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UltimateMagFrame3D1.jpg

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UltimateMagFrame3D2.jpg

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UltimateMagFrame3D3.jpg

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UltimateMagFrame3D4.jpg

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UltimateMagFrame3D5.jpg

Specs:

Cross Block Safety
Trigger Stops
Intellifeed Ready
Takes standard .45 Grips
Built in Snatch Grip
Integrated Dovetail Rail
Multipule Bottom Line Possitions
Countersunk Rear Frame Screw (no more blisters on your thumb joint)
Hybrid Frame Angle - Combines both the comfort of a Vert style frame, with the short height and standard grips of a standard .45 style frame.
Light Weight

Price will likely be in line with what our products have sold for in the past.

Colors will likely be just black, red, blue and raw.

So, what do you all think?

[MonsterMag]

wow that a nice frame , great job

[SpecialBlend2786]

mmmm :)

I like it.

Ryan = awesome

[AGDlover]

I chose Eh I really dont like the shape

[master_alexander]

i was going to sell the extra box parts mag i have but noooo....you have to come out with this thing.gee thanks for making such a great product and making me want to buy it!


bottom line,
i like it.

[Maggot6]

The only thing that would make me want to buy it is no more thumb blisters.
Good idea :)

[chairman_mao]

Looks good. :cheers: I like the intgrated rail and the "hybrid angle". Would like to see it with a rail and body if possible.

[Creative Mayhem]

Looking good. IT will be cool to see an actual on gun model with grips.

[t33kyboy]

Wheres the preorder page?

[CoolHand]

Looking good. IT will be cool to see an actual on gun model with grips.

Its not a 3D model, but its the best I have right now:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UMF-FullAssembly.jpg

No preorder this time. I'm still trying to decide if they are worth doing or not.

That's what this thread is for.

If they don't go over very well, I won't waste my time.

[LockNLoad]

Very cool indeed. Is that a CCM 86 frame modified for mags?

http://www.chipleymachine.com/images/paintball_accessories_03.gif

[CoolHand]

No, its a Logic Paintball 82.5 Degree frame for Shockers redone for the Mag:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/RedUSFShocker1.jpg

:p

:ninja:

:cheers:

[Automaggot68]

Once again you never cease to impress!
Maybe I could trade in my Ver t frame for one?.... :ninja:
I'll PM you!

[_tMAN]

To tell yout he truth I have never really been a fan of your work, nothing personal, just preference. It looks to "squarish" for my tastes. But a great product non the less.

[p8ntball365]

Finally countersunk screws. Looks good.

[warbeak2099]

No post travel adjustment on the trigger? Other than that, looks great. *cough*need an electro version*cough*

[LockNLoad]

My apologies. I didn't know that you came out with the Shocker frame before CCM came out with their 86 frame.

[Chipper]

I really wish I hadn't sold my mag.

[warbeak2099]

My apologies. I didn't know that you came out with the Shocker frame before CCM came out with their 86 frame.

I don't think he did. But it doesn't matter, they're two different frames. Different angles.

[LockNLoad]

I don't think he did. But it doesn't matter, they're two different frames. Different angles.

The best part is, his other vert frame in the dealer's forum is selling for $90, and he said they would be priced the same. At $90 for this new frame, who cares, right?

[warbeak2099]

Exactly. Beautiful looking frame. *cough*again, electro version is needed!*cough*

[WickeDKlowN]

I really wish I hadn't sold my mag.
Ditto. If I don't like the cocker thats headed my way, I know what I'm getting next.

[Augiedoggy18]

I have been wanting to do a mech mag anyway. I would definitely buy that frame! Produce and sell it to us; no more taunting! :D

Nick

[Automaggot68]

To tell yout he truth I have never really been a fan of your work, nothing personal, just preference. It looks to "squarish" for my tastes. But a great product non the less.
You've never used it, and there isn't a working prototype that we've seen yes
how can you say it's a great product none the less?


This isn't a crack at Ryan, as he knows I've got nothing but love for his products.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I like it. It's different than most 'Mag products. You do not see many "squarish" products for mags. It brings a fresh design to the table. As a fan of your Ripper V-M, I like this as well. Maybe radius the edges alittle more to make it flow better. That should keep the squarish look, but flow better as well.

[Carbon Blue]

Wow that looks awesome. Will it include only a single trigger stop? or double trigger stop (with a set screw on the top of the trigger but underneath it)? Would you estimate it to be lighter than the agd intelliframe?

You mention that it will come in the color scheme raw. I currently have a raw 2005 karta body and rail, will your raw be the same type of color that deadlywind offers (meaning does it look like chrome almost?)

[Teamslayer76]

Exactly. Beautiful looking frame. *cough*again, electro version is needed!*cough*

QTF

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Will it include only a single trigger stop? or double trigger stop (with a set screw on the top of the trigger but underneath it)?

It has two stops. You can see where the holes should be in the CAD drawings. One for firing point, the other for post-travel. There is also an unadjustable pre-travel stop.

[surealpaintballer]

great frame... i liek the rail idea

[deadbox101]

I really like the frame and hope it goes into production. However i think it would be a great idea if you could make your own grips for it, something that really flowed with it.

[tony3]

Nice job Ryan, way to keep improving your product.

[KapitalJin]

Would you make one with the hole big enough for the banjo bolt? :D

[Big'n slo]

Looks great!!!

Now just mill a tad more out so we can fit a LPR/3way/actuator in that sucker :D

[luke]

As usual I like it.

The snatch grip is a little sharp though. ;)

[CoolHand]

As usual I like it.

The snatch grip is a little sharp though. ;)

I'll have you know it has a fifteen thou radius on it.

You'd have to try pretty hard to hurt yourself I think (besides it will be funny when you do :argh: ).

[CoolHand]

Would you make one with the hole big enough for the banjo bolt? :D

If you send the marker down, I will see what I can do. Should be able to modify one to fit it.

[UTDragun]

Originally Posted by warbeak2099
Exactly. Beautiful looking frame. *cough*again, electro version is needed!*cough*QTF
Double QFT

[Ohms Law]

If you are going to the trouble to design ANOTHER mechanical frame, why don't you design in a solenoid mounting plate and add a predator board to it. You are a TAG dealer and should be able to get good pricing on the boards right?

[TheTramp]

I think it looks great. I love the cross between the vert and the 90*. It also look big enough that it would fint my hands nicely. These days the trend seems to be frames made for 15 boys or dudes with little girlie hands.

[LudavicoSoldier]

If you are going to the trouble to design ANOTHER mechanical frame, why don't you design in a solenoid mounting plate and add a predator board to it. You are a TAG dealer and should be able to get good pricing on the boards right?

I second this! The ONLY way I am going to pick up another mag (anything) is if someone sells a DIY electro based frame. I want to do it on my terms, not DevilsDen's or TAG's!

BTW hot frame!

[Hairball]

As soon as you said you were discontinuing the V-M, but starting something else, I would have placed good money on you doing something similar to this... My estimate was about a 75° angle though. I was right about fitting 45 grips too.

[CoolHand]

WE WANT AN ELECTRO FRAME!

Well, to tell you the truth, the reason I haven't done this is that I didn't want to compete with Chris. The market is small, and to further divide it serves no one.

However, since it appears he has more customers than he can handle, I will take a look at the design and see if I can shoe horn it all in there. If I can, I will.

No promises though, I didn't have that in mind when I designed this one, so it may not work (or I may have to start over).

[Creative Mayhem]

Ryan keep us posted on the progress of this thing, I think I may have a project for this frame, provided it gets made that is.

[mcdkid]

It looks great, but one suggestion- Make a hole in the trigger guard so we can get the 1/8 in there to the front frame screw.

[CoolHand]

OK, it looks like this one is doable.

I am going to have a half batch made, and we'll take it from there.

I'd say a minimum of six weeks before they are ready to sell, maybe 7 or 8 if things don't go perfectly.

No electro from this one, it just won't all fit.

Go find the other thread if you want to know what's going on with that project.

[VFX_Fenix]

that's cool... but I have to say not a fan of the snatch grip.... why do you need one on the 'Mag anyway? isn't there enough behind the trigger frame to hang onto already?

[CoolHand]

that's cool... but I have to say not a fan of the snatch grip.... why do you need one on the 'Mag anyway? isn't there enough behind the trigger frame to hang onto already?


Well, it does look cool, and I can machine it off for you if you want one without.

I always assumed the same thing, but people went nuts over the other guy's snatch grip, so what do I know.

Anyway, I like the look, even if it doesn't actually do anything revolutionary.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Reminds me of the Cobra Fierce frames, and the CCM ones. Then again like you said it also reminds me of your own Shocker frames which, from what i have heard, rule. How much do you reckon they will be?

[Carbon Blue]

is it lighter than the intelliframe?

will it both have upper and lower trigger stops?

When you say "raw" will it be the same polished almost chrome looking scheme as deadlywinds karta bodies?

[CoolHand]

Weight is looking like ~6.7 ozs (I got no idea what the IFrame weighs, so I can't make the comparison).

Price will be very similar to the Shocker Frames they look like (no prices in PB talk ;) ).

Upper trigger stop is fixed (its that bill on the front of the trigger). Lower stop and trigger rod contact are adjustable.

[SpitFire1299]

I chose Eh I really dont like the shape

Same with me.. i dont like how it has the thing coming out of the back like that.. its hard to say..

[FlawleZ]

I like it. Glad to see your creative mind is still at work for us AOer's to take advantage of. Keep it up!

[FlawleZ]

If you send the marker down, I will see what I can do. Should be able to modify one to fit it.

Nothing a few minutes with the dremel can't fix. ;)

[VFX_Fenix]

I have another quesiton!!!!

How am I supposed to attach my Flatline to that rail w/o set screws to hold it in place!!! :eek:

I guess I'll just have to figure that one out later....

[CoolHand]

I have another quesiton!!!!

How am I supposed to attach my Flatline to that rail w/o set screws to hold it in place!!! :eek:

I guess I'll just have to figure that one out later....

You run a big set screw (which comes with the frame) up into one of the bottom line screw holes.

Then you slide on the flatline in question.

Then you use the aforementioned big set screw to jam it in place.

Easy peasy, though you need to remove the grips on one side to do it.

So THERE! Mr. Doubting Thomas.

I kid, I kid.

:rofl:

[shartley]

Since you are going with a snatch grip, is there any reason why you didn’t extend that to the back of the valve? I think a rolling two hump effect similar to what another member posted here….
http://www.chipleymachine.com/images/paintball_accessories_03.gif
… would look better. Maybe something like this?....

http://www.shartleycustoms.com/forum/logic1.jpg

This was quick so refining would have to be done, but I think it gives an idea. Heck you may have already thought of it and discarded the idea for all I know. So with that said, if you are going to add the snatch grip on the end, why not the extended hook? Is it a production/material cost issue?

[Creative Mayhem]

I tend to agree with sam, the CCM snatch grip area with the dual grooves looks cooler ;)

[CoolHand]

I started out like that (not the dual grooves, but the snatch grip all the way to the back), but it just looked obnoxous for some reason. Plus, that adds like 2" of metal that is 95% machined away (IE it adds significantly to both the material cost, and the machining time).

Maybe I should just ditch the snatch grip. I just thought it looked cool.

[shartley]

I started out like that (not the dual grooves, but the snatch grip all the way to the back), but it just looked obnoxous for some reason. Plus, that adds like 2" of metal that is 95% machined away (IE it adds significantly to both the material cost, and the machining time).

Maybe I should just ditch the snatch grip. I just thought it looked cool.
I thought that may have been the reason. Why would the entire area not used have to be milled away? Wouldn’t one width of the tool be enough to cut out the frame as opposed to milling all the area out? That would save on machine time and tool wear. I don’t see how the material cost would not be a reasonable thing though.

Just thinking out loud. I like the look with the longer snatch grip, and I bet those who like snatch grips would as well.

[CoolHand]

I thought that may have been the reason. Why would the entire area not used have to be milled away? Wouldn’t one width of the tool be enough to cut out the frame as opposed to milling all the area out? That would save on machine time and tool wear. I don’t see how the material cost would not be a reasonable thing though.

Just thinking out loud. I like the look with the longer snatch grip, and I bet those who like snatch grips would as well.

That's called slotting, and in aluminum its a bit tough without a coolant through spindle on your machine. Basically, the chips come out at such a copious rate, that they pile up in the slot and bind the tool. At best this wears the tool faster, at worst, it can break it and ruin your billet to boot.

I don't like to slot unless there is no other way around it, and when I do, I like to keep the width:height ratio at about 1.5:1 or lower.

Even if you slot it though, it does still waste that chunk of alum there. Overall I'd say it would add ~$10 to the cost of the part (in material and machine time).

That's basically why I didn't go any farther out with the snatch grip. The one I put on there added style without greatly impacting the weight of the part or the cost of manufacture.

Plus, I don't really want to just rip off CCM's look. I've already had people think that I took the idea for the not quite 90 deg frame from them, this would do nothing to help my crediblity. "No, I didn't borrow the angle . . . . . . but yeah, that snatch grip I got from them." :(

[shartley]

That's called slotting, and in aluminum its a bit tough without a coolant through spindle on your machine. Basically, the chips come out at such a copious rate, that they pile up in the slot and bind the tool. At best this wears the tool faster, at worst, it can break it and ruin your billet to boot.

I don't like to slot unless there is no other way around it, and when I do, I like to keep the width:height ratio at about 1.5:1 or lower.

Even if you slot it though, it does still waste that chunk of alum there. Overall I'd say it would add ~$10 to the cost of the part (in material and machine time).

That's basically why I didn't go any farther out with the snatch grip. The one I put on there added style without greatly impacting the weight of the part or the cost of manufacture.
Thank you very much for the explanation.

Now the next question….. Might I suggest asking folks if the added $10 per grip frame would be worth it to them? When people are paying the price folks do already for a good quality grip frame an additional $10 for the added feature might just be worth it to them.

It is totally up to you, but I would hate to see you not do something folks want and would be willing to pay the extra money for. Again… just thinking out loud….

[shartley]

You added this while I was posting…


Plus, I don't really want to just rip off CCM's look. I've already had people think that I took the idea for the not quite 90 deg frame from them, this would do nothing to help my crediblity. "No, I didn't borrow the angle . . . . . . but yeah, that snatch grip I got from them." :(
I don’t think it would be ripping of their work if it did not look the same. For example, the quick mock-up I posted does not look like theirs. The shape is different, the dimensions are different, etc.

The choice is yours, but I don’t see it as ripping them off. Look at all the “ripping off of designs” arguments that have happened on AO concerning grip frames and other parts for the Mag in the past. Sometimes good designs/ideas are used by more than one person, and it is not because it is ripping someone else off, but because it is a naturally good design/idea.

Your credibility is strong with me, and I would bet it would remain so with others. Do what is best for you. I am fine with anything you decide.

[Carbon Blue]

is it lighter than the intelliframe?

will it both have upper and lower trigger stops?

When you say "raw" will it be the same polished almost chrome looking scheme as deadlywinds karta bodies?

[CoolHand]

is it lighter than the intelliframe?

will it both have upper and lower trigger stops?

When you say "raw" will it be the same polished almost chrome looking scheme as deadlywinds karta bodies?

I don't know what the intelliframe weighs, this one should hit around 6.7 ozs.

Yes. Upper is fixed, lower is adjustable.

No, raw is as it comes off the machine. Most of the cost of anodizing is in the surface prep. Raw is cheaper because I didn't have to pay someone to polish the part. If you buy raw from me, plan on spending a few hours sanding and polishing before it will look like the DW raw. They should call that finish "polished and unanodized" instead of raw.

[Carbon Blue]

thanks man