Lets be subjective about how a gun "feels"

[Carbon]

howdy yall. in about a month or so i think i will be putting down my emag in. I still love her, but she will be in my gear bag playing second string to gun xxxxx.

anyhow, there is a lot of talk about how if you spend over X number of dollars for a gun, you probably are gonna get similar performace to other guns in that price range. Inevatably the decision is gonna be base on, "well, pick what guns feels right."

Well lets be subjective for a moment. This may be odd, trying to quantify the abstract but,

What criteria makes for a gun that feels right? For me off the top of my head, the guns that ive shot that felt right, i decided must be a factor of these variable.

Weight distribution:
with a 14 in. barrel
full halo b
reversed micro drop
68/45k tank

Geometry:
distance of the front grip/reg relative to the grip frame
location of the hopper, front? back? middle, over the front grip/reg.

Recoil:
in single shots and sustained streams.

incidentaly, the only gun that comes close to the feel of my emag to me, is the new Shocker with a similar setup.

thoughts?

[Chris_automag_07]

ummm smart parts ;)


out

[magman007]

well, i base my feel on opperation of the marker, kick etc. And i still Feel that a spoolvalved marker is the way to go. so smoothe it is rediolous. and that is what i am happy shooting

[VFX_Fenix]

For me it's about ballance and hand/arm position

My E-Mag actually doesn't ballance well at all with an aluminum barrel on it and a full Egg (it becomes tail heavy) but it does have propper hand/arm position for me now that I'm running a CP rail instead of the Microdrop.

close to ideal set-up for ballance and arm position.
14" Stainless Long Shot
Full Egg II
CP Rail
68/4500 Flatline w/ AGD adapter block and tank set as far forward as the rail will allow

foregrip position is good on my E-Mag for me with the battery pack

So long as the ballance point of the marker is somewhere over the webbing of my shooting hand (roughly where the field strip bolt is on the Automag) and the tank doesn't force my elbow out farther than I already naturally want to put it I like it. There becomes and issue when things start to get too long, like how my friend has his shocker set-up with the reverse Maxflow rail and his 68/4500 Manifold Maxflow.

The Ion also has a very mag-esque feel to it though admittedly it's a bit lighter and a lot more tail heavy because of the reduced weight of the rest of the gun.

Appart from the Shocker and the Ion you'll be hard pressed to find something that'll put your body roughly into the same position as your E-Mag. Personally I'm partial to Angels too and if I weren't shooting an E-Mag, I'd be shooting an 05 Speed.

[master_alexander]

for me, i can adjust, go from one game with a z gripped mag, to an A-5...

but it depends on how it feels when you are in a tucked position tuck under a bunker or shooting from it. a smooth trigger pull it awesome. with my z grip, i like to use a drop and have a super small setup, and with annything with a 45 frame i like it to be about 18 inches less my arm length.

[hobbesTZ]

I prefer my guns to be a bit more back heavy because it helps me keep my tank stable when I'm shouldering it, which is the only way I hold it. It's never going to be so back heavy that I can't control it when I'm running with it one handed. My only issue comes with the tank, if I don't have a cover it will slip and slide all over the place, and if I used a CO2 tank the flat bottom makes it hard to shoulder.

[LS1 WS6]

Why don't you keep your E-mag and preorder a drop in Predator board from TAG. It would help the rest of us get them sooner. :D

Seriously, if you love your mag, the new board would make it as fast or faster than any other gun out.

[TDonovan]

I don't really have a set criteria, but...

-I don't like having the foregrip/reg too far away from the frame.
-Has to feel "natural" when I shoulder a tank and run/gun
-Kick doesn't matter unless it's like a 98c
-I enjoy playing with light guns

That said... I find these high end guns comfortable.

05 Speed (45 or 90*)
05 Defiant
Critical Framed Intimidator (05 frames feel a little odd, but I can get used to em)
Shocker
Ego

For some reason the DM series of guns doesn't feel that good to me right now. I don't know why.

[Flow_Tech]

I don't really have a set criteria, but...

-I don't like having the foregrip/reg too far away from the frame.
-Has to feel "natural" when I shoulder a tank and run/gun
-Kick doesn't matter unless it's like a 98c
-I enjoy playing with light guns

That said... I find these high end guns comfortable.

05 Speed (45 or 90*)
05 Defiant
Critical Framed Intimidator (05 frames feel a little odd, but I can get used to em)
Shocker
Ego

For some reason the DM series of guns doesn't feel that good to me right now. I don't know why.
not to rain on your..uhh..parade?..but a critical frame is an 05 frame,Critical themselves saidthat its the exact same thing as an 05 frame..

[68magOwner]

i have an almost identical setup to what you describe (14in barrel, reversed rail, 68/45, halo B) on my 04 viking, and i love how it feels

[RRfireblade]

What criteria makes for a gun that feels right?

Well I'm not sure what your asking, what "I" look for? Or a suggestion as to what you should get?

So...

I don't know what you should get. ;)

And...

I don't think there's specifically a perfect gun for each person, to me they all have pros and cons and each person usually picks the one (if they actually try them and do research before they buy) that has pros that appeal to them and cons that aren't significant to them. That could be anyting from size and weight, balance and ergonomics, speed and efficiency and combinations of all those things.

And here's the kicker to that, those things typically change fairly often as time and experience changes nd develops for each player. ;)

I have like , I don't know, maybe 50 guns? And then there are 5-10 that I play with on a regular basis, often changing the line up of and depending on what I'm planning on playing.(pump,Semi,Scenerio) I had a thread here somewhere about a typical day of play for me and it had a pic of 10-15 guns that I planned on bringing that day.Anyway...

To me, each gun has it's own personallity and I enjoy those differences between each one.Usually focussing on the Pros and just getting enjoyment out of the uniqueness of each one. But thats me.

Therefore, generally speaking.....

"What criteria makes for a gun that feels right?" - to me:

It needs to have a certain aire of quality, as in, solidly built contruction, materials appropriate to thier application, well designed parts and quality in machining and finish.

It need to have confortable balance in my hands and feel comfortable when naturally shouldered to fire.

It needs to be of an appropriate weight to my style of play, generelly not 'real' heavy but not super light either.

And it needs to have performance specs appropriate to it's intended use.

The specifics beyond that are nothing more than personal preferance based on my mood at the time and budget.

IMO. :)

Jay.

[LudavicoSoldier]

I generaly like these criteria as of late:

1. 45 or hybrid 45 frame
2. Forgrip/reg should be level with the bottom of the grip frame
3. Tank size of 68 or 70ci
4. Rail or reverse rail for 70ci stubbys
5. 14" or 16" barrel
6. Loader as low as physically possible
7. Combination of any of these to make the gun balance in line with the grip frame

[Carbon]

Why don't you keep your E-mag and preorder a drop in Predator board from TAG. It would help the rest of us get them sooner. :D

Seriously, if you love your mag, the new board would make it as fast or faster than any other gun out.

yeah i considered it. But, speed is not my primary concern as of late. Currently i've capped my emag at 17 (4.0 software) I suppose i just want something different, but at the same time simillar?

im curious. I think, it would be neat to make a "mockup gun" with a regular sized 68ci tank as a baseline build stucture.

just a simple frame that can have weights added and subracted to it to simulate weight distibution.

other than the tank, Its general shape would be, well, general. A fitiment for a reg that is adjustable, rake angle wise and horozontal wise.

a frame thats has a modular angle and an overall placement distance relkative to the reg.

and a hopper fitiment that is horizontally adjustable as well.

Take this Mockup gun, and have a sample of maybe 1000 players or more build/adjust it so that it feels right to them. Then take the specs/configuration of that mockup gun and see what the data holds.

what is the most common config? what is the basic shpae of a comfy gun if tehre is one. I suppose in the end what you will get is the common gun.

Consider this though, Myself being a layout artist/graphic designer, there is a general basic formula for what "looks good". There is theory as to why more people will chose layout A over layout B

thoughts?

[VFX_Fenix]

Actually that seems like it'd be pretty cool to have a mock-up gun to move around and play with. Might just be the next "bit step" in paintball. Tailor made paintball guns. I'd actually be pretty curious to see what that turned up actually.

It would also be interesting to take that same model and retest it in a year or two and see if things have changed. Admittedly paintball is dynamic like the rest of the world and what's good today will be junk tomorrow.

The evolution of paintball gear is littered with this, from coiled remotes to big loopy drops to barrel lengths. However in paintball it's generally been driven by the competetive portion of the sport with "what the pros are doing". I remember when a tourney set-up was your tricked out Slider frame 'Cocker, or Tricked 'Mag, with a T-Stock running on a remote in a 6+1 belt harness, JT Goggles, Renegade jersey and pants, some cleats and maybe some knee/shin pads.

[TDonovan]

not to rain on your..uhh..parade?..but a critical frame is an 05 frame,Critical themselves saidthat its the exact same thing as an 05 frame..

I know what you're saying. I was under the impression they were identical as well, but for some reason it felt slightly different. Maybe it was just the grips, or perhaps there are minor differences in the edges or something. Someone told me the critical ones were rounded off a little more. Coulda been the fact that the alias frame has a snatch grip on the back.

Eh, whaaaatever, i dunno, :)

[magmonkey]

I have a piece of t slotted extrusion that you could mount everything to and adjust just about every aspect of it I would just need to come up with a length and thread it for a barrel

Alan
DC

[buzzboy]

I like my guns two ways.

First is the rifle feel. My pro/carbine has the perfect rifle feel. It has the 45 pistol grip that sits out perfect when sholdering my gun with a 12 or 20 length tank. Also the horizontal front handgrip just makes it feel right when I shoot it like a rifle. The other thing I like about my P/C is how it is weighted with a 20oz co2, a full hopper and a 16 inch barrel. It feels "right". The 12oz co2 feels better when the hopper is starting to run low.

Second is the laid back feel of a gun like a mag. I still haven't shot a mag with the y or z grip but from my experience with guns that have vert or 45 frames I would much rather have them lean back. Tanks on non rifle gun have never felt right to me. The only way I really like them is with remotes or stocks. I haven't shot any guns with a nice drop yet so I don't know how that would effect the way I like the gun.

[cioeboy]

the best feeling gun to me is a 68 automag with a fore grip a long drop and a 68ci tank

[dj89]

For me it's about ballance and hand/arm position

My E-Mag actually doesn't ballance well at all with an aluminum barrel on it and a full Egg (it becomes tail heavy) but it does have propper hand/arm position for me now that I'm running a CP rail instead of the Microdrop.

close to ideal set-up for ballance and arm position.
14" Stainless Long Shot
Full Egg II
CP Rail
68/4500 Flatline w/ AGD adapter block and tank set as far forward as the rail will allow

foregrip position is good on my E-Mag for me with the battery pack

So long as the ballance point of the marker is somewhere over the webbing of my shooting hand (roughly where the field strip bolt is on the Automag) and the tank doesn't force my elbow out farther than I already naturally want to put it I like it. There becomes and issue when things start to get too long, like how my friend has his shocker set-up with the reverse Maxflow rail and his 68/4500 Manifold Maxflow.

The Ion also has a very mag-esque feel to it though admittedly it's a bit lighter and a lot more tail heavy because of the reduced weight of the rest of the gun.

Appart from the Shocker and the Ion you'll be hard pressed to find something that'll put your body roughly into the same position as your E-Mag. Personally I'm partial to Angels too and if I weren't shooting an E-Mag, I'd be shooting an 05 Speed.


Put a egg on any gun, it will not ballance well.

[Automaggot68]

Put a egg on any gun, it will not ballance well.
Yeah?

My Egg feels fine on my E-98 supergun....it feels great on My Viking....on my Dallara.... On my..
It balances just fine.

[dj89]

Yeah?

My Egg feels fine on my E-98 supergun....it feels great on My Viking....on my Dallara.... On my..
It balances just fine.

That’s good, glad it works for you. It just always felt back heavy to me.

If you think about it the center of the gun is the around the feed neck than most the wight is behind it so how would that be ballanced?

[Automaggot68]

That’s good, glad it works for you. It just always felt back heavy to me.

If you think about it the center of the gun is the around the feed neck than most the wight is behind it so how would that be ballanced?


How many Markers have feednecks that are in the CENTER of the marker itself?

Feednecks in the front..
Please correct me on any of these.

ALL Vikings
ALL Excaliburs
ALL Model 98s
ALL Autocockers
...
Hell.
You name some guns wth the Feedneck in the MIDDLE of the Marker. I'm talking about everyday, the ones you see people playing with.

[CKY_Alliance]

well, i base my feel on opperation of the marker, kick etc. And i still Feel that a spoolvalved marker is the way to go. so smoothe it is rediolous. and that is what i am happy shooting

Everyone talks about kick..i dont notice kick really...maybe im wierd..