For anyone, reguarding ramping/enhanced firing modes..

[MadPSIence]

Ryan Greenspan, Dynasty cabana boy, was caught pulling near 22bps vs. XSV which I believe carries a heavy penalty. Well.. we all know the pros do dirty stuff time to time but this opens up a new matter.

With enhanced firing modes allowed.. it is impossible for cheaters to be caught before entering a field..and often even if they do cheat on field.. anything short of a NPPL ref-crew will have no way in hell to stop it.

So I'm guessing he probably had some sort of membrane switch or something to bypass the legal settings.. which well anyone can do for a small cost. Seeing as how cheating is all but unstoppable now, what do you guys think about this? Think.. guns are checked before the game.. but if a tap on a pad or special anything can bypass.. not only can speed be ramped but so can velocity via well or other settings and practically anything.

Further out... I went around reading the reactions of people in the PB community and I was deeply saddened to see the amount of support for Ryan Greenspan and Dynasty after the incident.

[Flow_Tech]

uhhh..not to be a jackass or anything,but the owner of Tadao,Will,built in a code into the dynasty boards that dont allow them to be used in any other way then how they should be...they cant be changed to have a "membranepad" that changes the top ROF..what probabbly happened was that he just put the top ROF on the uncapped ramping setting to show off/check for shootdown during high ROF and didnt turn it back down.

[MadPSIence]

uhhh..not to be a jackass or anything,but the owner of Tadao,Will,built in a code into the dynasty boards that dont allow them to be used in any other way then how they should be...they cant be changed to have a "membranepad" that changes the top ROF..what probabbly happened was that he just put the top ROF on the uncapped ramping setting to show off/check for shootdown during high ROF and didnt turn it back down.

do you really believe at a professional level that is the case? truly?

[Flow_Tech]

its very possible,i know for a fact that i have done that same thing,as my alias works sometimes without shootdown and sometimes doesnt.Anything is possible.

[Chronobreak]

i doubt it was an accident, and even so for such an event he should have double checked his mode/rof/w/e to be compliant with the rules of the event.

i feel a HEAVY penalty is in order, and if future occurances should happen banishment from that league.

stiff punishments are the only way to curve cheating.(If its not worth the risk of cheating then people wont, or very few will)

top level teams are considered icons/examples to many people, and frankly they arent being very good ones.(this comment isnt directed at any team inparticularly)

[magman007]

Frankly, i think ramping is gay, i think it is a cover up for a lack of skill, he obviously put it up, and didnt care.

[Snyiper]

Well to to totally stop cheating you are going to have to go to a IROC kind of thing where everyone uses the same type of marker, all made the same and inspected and handed out before each tourny. Since the "Pros" have all the latest gadgets the markers should be so equipted and the boards made non adjustable and sealed. Skills will be the determining factor that way and the cheating will be put on the back burner as far as guns go anyway!
Glenn

[shartley]

Well to to totally stop cheating you are going to have to go to a IROC kind of thing where everyone uses the same type of marker, all made the same and inspected and handed out before each tourny. Since the "Pros" have all the latest gadgets the markers should be so equipted and the boards made non adjustable and sealed. Skills will be the determining factor that way and the cheating will be put on the back burner as far as guns go anyway!
Glenn
Well NASCAR does not use the same cars but they do a good job preventing cheating. While I agree that an IROC style thing would be the easiest, I doubt manufacturers would allow that to fly.

I suggest that if the penalties for equipment cheating (and any for that matter) are high enough that would do the trick. But you have to have event organizers willing to enforce those penalties.

[drg]

Well to to totally stop cheating you are going to have to go to a IROC kind of thing where everyone uses the same type of marker, all made the same and inspected and handed out before each tourny. Since the "Pros" have all the latest gadgets the markers should be so equipted and the boards made non adjustable and sealed. Skills will be the determining factor that way and the cheating will be put on the back burner as far as guns go anyway!
Glenn

hey that's a pretty good idea. i mean add your own loader, tank, barrel, even grips but the gun itself can't be modified.

[Southparkrocks]

uhhh..not to be a jackass or anything,but the owner of Tadao,Will,built in a code into the dynasty boards that dont allow them to be used in any other way then how they should be...they cant be changed to have a "membranepad" that changes the top ROF..what probabbly happened was that he just put the top ROF on the uncapped ramping setting to show off/check for shootdown during high ROF and didnt turn it back down.

Can't the dynasty boards be uped to virtue for 75 bucks?

[BD_Paintball]

i was standing by the pits when it happened and he was saying that something was messed up with the board. he played earlier in the day it was fine, and i dont thing he would do that on purpose b/c there would be no way he would get away with it. i also took a pic of him talking to some guy about it but i dont feel like linking it.

[tdogreb]

If you belive that he did it by accident or that his board was screwed, I got a bridge I will sell you, cheap.

[MadPSIence]

rather than go straight IROC on guns why not just simply limit all firing to semi-automatic.. AND to insure this happens..

have the boards supplied by the NPPL

[Duck Hunt]

Where'd you hear about this? Get us a link.

Sean

[MadPSIence]

Where'd you hear about this? Get us a link.

Sean

dynasty forum on pbn..

you should be able to find it w/o a link

[WenULiVeUdiE]

i was standing by the pits when it happened and he was saying that something was messed up with the board. he played earlier in the day it was fine, and i dont thing he would do that on purpose b/c there would be no way he would get away with it. i also took a pic of him talking to some guy about it but i dont feel like linking it.

Programming does not magically change.

[DaveSM]

Well to to totally stop cheating you are going to have to go to a IROC kind of thing where everyone uses the same type of marker, all made the same and inspected and handed out before each tourny. Since the "Pros" have all the latest gadgets the markers should be so equipted and the boards made non adjustable and sealed. Skills will be the determining factor that way and the cheating will be put on the back burner as far as guns go anyway!
Glenn

Another option could be a parallel board set between the main board and the trigger switch AND between the mainboard and the solenoids. This sub board would be supplied by the event promoters with specific settings (bounce detection, ramping detection). f the board register something wrong it may start emitting sound through a speaker or setting a silent radio detected alarm. This would be limitless.

[warbeak2099]

Or maybe players should have to turn their guns in to officials between rounds. They should be handed them back as they return to the field. That way, no one can fiddle around with anything between games. Hand em in as you enter the tourny, get em back as you walk on the field. hand em in again as you walk off, get em back the next time to enter the field. You could report a problem with the gun and the officials will tech it for you.

[MadPSIence]

i still think having the NPPL contract companies to build NPPL new-spec boards capped with semi only.. would fix everything. all the boards would go thru inspection and be put in guns AT events. that way everything is even without going IROC.

[vonort]

Or maybe you just make the pros use PUMP guns. :bounce: :dance:

[tony3]

Or dont allow force feed loaders.

[MadPSIence]

now we're getting silly..

[KapitalJin]

I thought they came up with the 15bps rule. All guns will be tested and adjusted to fire at no great firing rates than 15bps... thought I remember hearing that watching pigtv in the nppl video.

[Scott Hudnall]

Who cares? I mean, really.....who cares? At the "pro" level or "Am" level...what ever....if you are going to modify the board, programming, etc, you're gonna get away with it if you have half a brain.

In the perfect world of tournament play, all guns would be semi's, preferrably fully mech so that there could be no chance of "ramping" ROF or velocity.

At any rate, when somebody really DOES get injured, then the industry will step in and do something about it (Insurance industry, that is).

Way back in the pre-PVI shocker and Angel days, we always saw guys doing little things to their 'cockers which allowed them to spike velocity. Illegal.....yeah....but unless you knew the tricks you couldn't duplicate it at the chrono. Serious velocity spikes.....it was all a joke to shoot 340 on the field and then step up to the chrono and shoot 250 or so.....

I guess the players who feel they have to prove something will always find a way around the rules....hey, everybody's doing it, right? so why not wipe, play on, ramp ROF and ramp velocity? Who cares about personal liability or playing by the rules?

please note the sarcasm...... :cheers:

[MadPSIence]

I thought they came up with the 15bps rule. All guns will be tested and adjusted to fire at no great firing rates than 15bps... thought I remember hearing that watching pigtv in the nppl video.

yeah it's a rule.. but obviously mr. greenspan found a way around it. it's no suprise.. or great feat either

[FireITup14]

rather than go straight IROC on guns why not just simply limit all firing to semi-automatic.. AND to insure this happens..

have the boards supplied by the NPPL


I love that idea. It would fix alot.

[minimag03]

I thought they came up with the 15bps rule. All guns will be tested and adjusted to fire at no great firing rates than 15bps... thought I remember hearing that watching pigtv in the nppl video.

They did do that. I think they are saying he changed it to unlimited rof after they tested the marker.

If the the NXL/NPPL/PSP should practice zero tolerance against cheaters. Unless they tested the Ryan's board to see if it was broken, he should be banned from the leauge.

[onedude36]

You know whats funny, Ryan Greenspan and Kevin somebody from dynasty were just at my field a few weeks ago. They put on a 'clinic' or something. I was watching/filming. Any way the Kevin guy was ramping. unless he can pull 12-14 with one finger and run at the same time... It was a fun time.

[master_alexander]

what would be cool is a key that goes in the back of the frame to turn some kind of cheating switch on, and you can hide it in your glove or something.

i dont know if it would work, dont even had an electro gun... yet...

[VFX_Fenix]

There's an old theory about winning in paintball and it goes a little something like this,

"He who can fling the most paint wins."

There is a real advantage to being able to put more paint in the air at any given momment because the more paint that's in the air the more likely you are to hit something or keep someone down. This gives you a degree of freedom to move and also observe the rest of the field while making your opponent play defensively. The SAS motto of "He who dares, wins" is very much true in paintball, generally the agressor will be the victor in a match between two teams of equal skill.

If you watch video of old NPPL games you'll see that the teams that are playing are shooting almost non-stop the entire game. There's one game between the Ironment and All Americans where I remember seeing these guys with Cockers and Mags just laying down paint like there was no tomorrow and them being deadlocked.

The advent of electro guns allowed an easier way to get more paint in the air, and when it's easier to put paint in the air you can focus less on pulling the trigger and more on other aspects of the game, movement, communication, observation, etc.

Sort of like when you're first learning to drive a car, like from a driving school, they stick you in an Automatic so you don't have to worry about shifting and can just focus on controlling the car. Only in this case it's working backwards so to speak.

In a way ramping/enhanced firing modes actually allow a player who is willing to become better by freeing them of the concern of laying down paint and allowing them to become more technical in their play. However this new/easy firepower can also be a crutch, which is why people coming into the game should really be using mechanical guns like pumps, spyders and tippmanns (imo). Also with the enhanced firing modes the game suddenly takes on a sharper learning curve, meaning that to be successful one of two things will happen. One, players will learn from their mistakes and work not to repeat them (the hard way), or two, players will cheat (i.e. whiping) in order to advance themselves (the easy way). The sharper the learning curve the more previlent cheating will become with the average player (since all animals are inherently lazy).

So here, in a nutshell, is the current tournament environment. Players are free to play more technically through the advent of electronic markers and their ability to fling paint, the learning curve for this environment is very steep and losing one or two games can effectively mean the end of a day for every team but the newer teams especially which will drive certain elements within the teams competing to "enhance" their competative abilities through a number of practices including waiting for a ref to pull the player and hiding/whiping known hits in order to improve their chances of progressing to the next round of play.

Ultimately the teams that can find a balance between luck, fair play, technical play and foul play will be the successful ones. Certain teams must rely on particular aspects more than others and we all know at least some teams that exemplify each of these aspects (except luck). However, the most reliable combination for success is to be excepsionally good at both Technical and Foul play. The Technical aspect will liberate you from the lesser skilled teams and Foul play will allow you to beat teams that are just as technical, if nor more so, than you are.

Really though the heart of the issue, as I see it, is safety. It may not, and probably isn't, safe to be shooting at the ROF's that we can and do. When a sport loses sight of safety it loses credibility and becomes another Extreme Sport, which is an image that Paintball has tried to distance itself from historically.

[GordDesigns]

OK this might be a little old school, of even crazy but.

I this player is in the Pro level, and knows how fast he can really fire.
Does it not sound likly he will know when his marker is malfunctioning, and at that point call himself out or bring it up to an official.
Just so he does not get into the position he is now.

I know that does not seem like reallity but, just call it optomistic?

:cheers:

[MadPSIence]

Like I've said before on this forum on other topics... paintball is the only competitive team sport where there is no existing ettiquette or honor.

[vonort]

Once again I say make them use PUMPS!!!! Last I checked there is no ramping or cheat modes with a phantom. :dance:

[SCpoloRicker]

rather than go straight IROC on guns why not just simply limit all firing to semi-automatic.. AND to insure this happens..

have the boards supplied by the NPPL

Crap, you're right.

[Automaggot68]

what would be cool is a key that goes in the back of the frame to turn some kind of cheating switch on, and you can hide it in your glove or something.

i dont know if it would work, dont even had an electro gun... yet...

That really isn't feasable.

Or you could just tap the trigger in a pre-programmed rythem/pattern, such as the the example given by Bill MIlls of WARPIG.com. He did a great article on gun boards. I'll find the link. In a bit.



OK this might be a little old school, of even crazy but.

I this player is in the Pro level, and knows how fast he can really fire.
Does it not sound likly he will know when his marker is malfunctioning, and at that point call himself out or bring it up to an official.
Just so he does not get into the position he is now.

I know that does not seem like reallity but, just call it optomistic?

:cheers:
(not aimed at you, just going along with your post)
Even then, the player should be aware that all of his gear is either IN, or OUT of working order. If not, he should remedy the probelm as soon as possible before the game begins, and I highly doubt that the Dynasty boys dont have a few backup's laying around.

[BD_Paintball]

If you don’t let people use different modes of fire like ramping or the PSP mode then the sport will sit stagnant. People will become less and less interested in the sport, and it will eventually die with exception to the hard core people. I think that ramping and PSP modes are good and paintball will continue to evolve.

[UTDragun]

wasnt dynasty the one who was caught putting a predator board in their gun and using breakout mode?

[SlartyBartFast]

If you don’t let people use different modes of fire like ramping or the PSP mode then the sport will sit stagnant. People will become less and less interested in the sport, and it will eventually die with exception to the hard core people. I think that ramping and PSP modes are good and paintball will continue to evolve.

Sure. Because all those mainstream sports that do so well constantly change their rules and are fluent in what they accept as equipment...

:rolleyes:

Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, ....

Problem is that paintball hasn't decided exactly what the "sport" is. To date, it has "evolved" into a paint-slining competition designed not to enhance competition by leveling the field or provide spectators with a good show but to provide sales and profit centers for the promoters and as marketing stages for the manufacturers.

[BD_Paintball]

Sure. Because all those mainstream sports that do so well constantly change their rules and are fluent in what they accept as equipment...

:rolleyes:

Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, ....

Problem is that paintball hasn't decided exactly what the "sport" is. To date, it has "evolved" into a paint-slining competition designed not to enhance competition by leveling the field or provide spectators with a good show but to provide sales and profit centers for the promoters and as marketing stages for the manufacturers.

look at those sports when they 1st became popular. then look at them now. there is TONS of change in those sports. paintball is a new sport just like all 4 of those sports when they came out. 3 point shot, helmet to helmet rule just to name 2 of them. once the sport gets established like those 4 are now then they can stop changing things.

[trains are bad]

i still think having the NPPL contract companies to build NPPL new-spec boards capped with semi only.. would fix everything.

Stop it. You are being reasonable. There are many ways to fix the current situation. The problem is not that it's hard, it's that nobody wants to. The first step is to admit that you have a problem.



paintball is the only competitive team sport where there is no existing ettiquette or honor.


Not really, more like paintball is the only existing competitive team sport with no existing AUTHORITY OR INTELLIGENT RULEMAKING BODY. And please don't suggest that those refs or that league are what passes for such. Other sports appear to have ethics and honor because they get banned, fined, and penalized for doing otherwise.



Problem is that paintball hasn't decided exactly what the "sport" is. To date, it has "evolved" into a paint-slining competition designed not to enhance competition by leveling the field or provide spectators with a good show but to provide sales and profit centers for the promoters and as marketing stages for the manufacturers.

Truth doesn't get truer than this. If we still had sigs I would rock that quote, because sad as it is, it's the damn truth. Painball has been sold out.

[SlartyBartFast]

look at those sports when they 1st became popular. then look at them now. there is TONS of change in those sports. paintball is a new sport just like all 4 of those sports when they came out. 3 point shot, helmet to helmet rule just to name 2 of them. once the sport gets established like those 4 are now then they can stop changing things.

Firstly, how fundamental are the rules changes?
Secondly, over what time span have they evolved?

Did they change before becoming popular? I doubt you can show that. All played by a pretty standard rule set long before tey were popular.

Did the rules or equipment change? Certainly.

But none of them fundamentally changed the rules, the format, the equipment, or the team size as paintball seems to do from year to year.

Most rule changes are to reward good play > 3-point throw
or promote safety > helmet to helmet
or punish cheats
or to improve game play.

Name one sport where the game changes simply because the equipment changes. Except for technology showcases, rules control equipment not the other way round. Even then, in technology driven sports, the safety rules are paramount and NOT to be changed by the "evolution" of equipment.

[armyboot]

I wanna know what the punishment will be.

Shooting almost 7bps over the limit is a BIG deal. He had to sit the rest of the Chicago event, but being that it was the last game and all I don't think that's enough.

The best way to make sure nobody can ramp etc is to give 'em all 12v revvys. That'd even up the playing field a bit.

[VFX_Fenix]

I remember once uppon a time in the antiquity of Electro paintball guns that there was a gentlemen's agreement that no electro would shoot over 13bps as an industry standard. Yeah... that really lasted...

[yakitori]

I thought NPPL did not allow ramping. I thought the 15bps rule applies to PSP/NXL/CFOA. I thought NPPL was still semi only.

Someone correct me if Im wrong. But you guys seem to think that NPPL has adopted the 15 bps rule too, which I dont think is the case.

It really makes you guys look like you dont know much about it.

how many times have you guys heard this statement. "I can shoot 13-16bps on my RT mag" :rolleyes:

[SlartyBartFast]

how many times have you guys heard this statement. "I can shoot 13-16bps on my RT mag" :rolleyes:

What does that have to do with anything?

Tarnishing Mag users with the statements of a few, used to describe events that are not even necessarily done at a time where they violated rules, does not condone the actions of others.

An RT mag used with a runaway trigger is as despicable as a ramping board when they are not allowed or a ramping board that fires faster than allowed by the rules.

So, put up or shut up. Point out a single specific hypocrite that condones cheating/breaking the rules with a Mag while attacking the same with other guns.

[hitech]

First, if you are going to allow electronic markers and allow players to use their own there is NO practical way to stop all cheats.

Second, to stop cheating you have to really want to do so. And those in charge of “pro” tournaments do not want to.

[MadPSIence]

yeah there is a practical way.. i just made a thread on it so as not to clutter this thread any more

[yakitori]

What does that have to do with anything?

Tarnishing Mag users with the statements of a few, used to describe events that are not even necessarily done at a time where they violated rules, does not condone the actions of others.

An RT mag used with a runaway trigger is as despicable as a ramping board when they are not allowed or a ramping board that fires faster than allowed by the rules.

So, put up or shut up. Point out a single specific hypocrite that condones cheating/breaking the rules with a Mag while attacking the same with other guns.


Here, Ill do better than ppl bragging about being able to pull 14+ on a mech mag. Ill give you a link to ppl that have actually complained and are against ramping, yet are cheering about 1.0 firmware that fireblade "might" come out with. I wont list names because its not appropriate, but I will let you read them for yourself. Everytime I dispute you, you comeback w/ some stupid request for me to go on some big search spree. Screw that. You wanna know, you search. I read these forums everyday, and Ive seen that statement repeated several times. You ask some of the ppl that are against ramping how fast they can pull a mech mag. Ill bet they say 13-15bps. Which is a total lie. Yet they complain that ramping at 15bps is too fast. If you can really pull a mech at 15bps, then why are you (subjective) griping about ramping at 15bps. Hell there are a lot of mech mag supermen out there. Who needs ramping. :rolleyes:

Heres the link. Read up on who is *****ing about ramping yet pushing for ramping firmware from fireblade. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=170991&page=1&pp=30&highlight=firmware

Do you own homework from now on.

[yakitori]

yeah there is a practical way.. i just made a thread on it so as not to clutter this thread any more

not ANOTHER ramping thread. Geez....just give it up already.

[hitech]

not ANOTHER ramping thread. Geez....just give it up already.
If you don't like the subject of the thread, just don't read it. Some of us like to discuss ideals...

[yakitori]

If you don't like the subject of the thread, just don't read it. Some of us like to discuss ideals...

its obvious. So much that you have to start 4 threads or more about it in less than a week.

Shut up hitech.

[hitech]

Shut up hitech.

:p

[yakitori]

^^ Lol. :d

[SlartyBartFast]

Wow yaki. After the last round of lameness I actually thought you were worth some respect. Guess I was wrong.


Do you own homework from now on.

No. YOU make the accusations, YOU act like a turd, YOU try and justify/dismiss despicable playing habits by tarnishing ALL Mag users on the forum with bizarre and often unfounded impressions pulled from a few, YOU do the homework, YOU back up your accusations, YOU should be prepared to defend your words.

Otherwise, each time you make global all encompassing generalisations that tarnish ALL posters in a thread, or even worse all of AO, expect me (and I expect others) to take offense and call you out for it.

And unless the people clamouring for the ramping and full auto-modes in Mag boards are EXACTLY the same people that are in this thread you have no business making the accusation.

If they are the people in this thread, be a man and call them on it.

And regardless if they are or not, you have absolutely no right or justification to tell others to shut up or accuse everyone in the thread of whining because they go against you personal views of what constitutes legitimate paintball and appropriate discussion.

It would seem that your thought processes are too immature to understand that people can have varied opinions and that even an individuals opinion on a topic might well depend on the circumstances or context being discussed.

I like fast cars. I love to watch races. I’m thrilled when I see bikes and cars that can accelerate at breathtaking speeds and travel at many multiples of the speed limit. If I had the disposable income, I’d probably buy one. Does that make me a hypocrite if I complain about dangerous drivers or people speeding past the local park? Well, you’d be an idiot if you think it does. Because I’d be fully capable of driving appropriately and following the rules of the road regardless of what I’m driving.

You have an amazing knack for taking things to ridiculous extremes and generalisations that make even those that might agree with you on the basic points vehemently oppose you.

And here’s the icing on the cake: The icing on one grade A, true and absolute delusional nut cake.
That thread you posted to? After counting 39 individual posters, I found NONE that said anything even remotely hypocritical if they posted in this thread as well.

So in this thread, indiscriminately calling us all whiners, telling people to shut up, insinuating we’re hypocrites, then linking to a thread with upwards of 40 other individuals in which I fail to understand how your accusations are founded, you have effectively walked into a room with a hundred people and shouted a general insult at them all.

You must be a real wallflower in person, because unless you’re a blackbelt you’d have yourself creamed on a regular basis. Got many friends? Do you manage to actualy discuss anything intelligent with them or is the standard response after you insightfull contribution a punch in the gut?

Unless you can get over the delusion that all of AO is one person with one point of view, that you can insinuate at will, and that you remain incapable of accepting or discussing differing viewpoints, I suggest you follow your own advice and Shut Up.

[Lohman446]

There is an argument that says that our sport will stagnate and not advance or become popular if we do not advance technology at a break neck pace and allow these new "features" into our upper end of play.

I know that NASCAR is an overused example, but I think it applies today. One has to stay ahead of the curve, use the most advanced "feeding" systems available, and push for as much as we can.

Open the hood of a NASCAR compliant car. Whats missing? Superchargers, turbos, blowers of any kind...

What else is missing that you will find on every modern vehicle produced today, a way to get more efficiency, more power, better emmissions? Fuel injection. NASCAR still uses carburetors (or did last year). They have limited these cars in a way by limiting there fuel source through rules that control the flow rate of carbs and restrictor plates when necessary.

I present that well advancement should occur, it does not mean that you have to use every little edge that technology can get you to be populer, using these edges just helps sell players new gear as the rules and technology keep advancing.

[SCpoloRicker]

its obvious. So much that you have to start 4 threads or more about it in less than a week.

Shut up hitech.


We should just ignore the problem, then? As much as it pains me to say it, MadPSIence has a decent point. Mandatory boards for events is the closest fix I can see.

Yak, you just suck.

[SlartyBartFast]

Now, back to the real topic at hand:

In this case, ramping was used by a team member in a competition where ramping is clearly not allowed. Or at least at a level that was clearly not allowed. Is Dynasty in NPPL?

Forget complicated solutions for the time being. What is was the penalty given out?

For something so blatent and obvious, the penalty should be massive. It should also affect the entire team to make an example of them and encourage other teams to police their own members.

But given the fact the teams are in bed with the manufacturers who are in bed with the promoters and league organisers I doubt anyone will want to breakup the unholy menage-à-trois.


Further out... I went around reading the reactions of people in the PB community and I was deeply saddened to see the amount of support for Ryan Greenspan and Dynasty after the incident.

That’s what really sucks. The hordes of idiots who couldn’t care less about adhering to the rules.

And for the AIRHEAD that missed it: the point made in the opeing post that only a well trained NPPL ref team with all the required equipment could catch the offender makes infractions at the local tournament and rec level almost impossible to police/enforce.

In that light, what responsibility do manufacturers have either marker and third party manufacturers making aftermarket boards that allow user programming/adjustment or marker manufactruers not protecting their IP rights and enforcing design patents to shut down third party aftermarket chip/board makers?

And what about minimum equipment and knowledge for field owners and insurance coverage requirements. Even field owners are in a conflict of interest. What incentive do they have to stop people from shooting faster when paint revenue is their primary source of income?

Only WDP tried to do anything about it by encapsulating their boards. But do they still? Seems to me their initiative was ignored by both the industry and by players/consumers.

Paintball is screwed if anyone ever lifts the rock and shines a light on us to see what’s crawling around underneath.

[hitech]

...you have to use every little edge that technology can get you...just helps sell players new gear as the rules and technology keep advancing.

And THAT is why it isn't likely to change. It is NOT in the best interest of those making the rules. :(

There is no incentive to even enforce the existing rules. What makes anyone here think that new rules will even be enforced? :tard:

:spit_take

[hitech]

But given the fact the teams are in bed with the manufacturers who are in bed with the promoters and league organisers I doubt anyone will want to breakup the unholy menage-à-trois.

That’s what really sucks. The hordes of idiots who couldn’t care less about adhering to the rules.

Paintball is screwed if anyone ever lifts the rock and shines a light on us to see what’s crawling around underneath.

:hail: :hail: :hail:

[yakitori]

hey slarty....show me where I tarnish ALL mag users. Huh? you just made that up. I didnt say ALL mag users. You pulled that out of your ***. Just like all your other statements that had nothing to do w/ the point I was trying to make. My point is that NPPL is semi only. The guys above are stating it like NPPL allows ramping, and it made them look like they dont even know about NPPL firing modes.

Youre a nerd. :tard:

Ive proven my case that many mag users that are complaining about ramping are excited about the new software that fireblade may be working on, or predator boards.

With statements like youve been making, I could care less if you repsect me or not. Do you think that I care if you "slarty" (the AO god that everyone bows down to) lost a bit of respect for me? No. Youre just a cluelss moron.

you speak of american paintball like you live in the states. :rolleyes:

[SlartyBartFast]

The racing example is overused, but it fits perfectly.

And by the way, restrictor plates work regardless of the fuel or engine technology. Various racing series have effectively banished better technology in the form of diesel cars and turbine cars by defining maximum number of cylinders/displacement and by requiring restrictor plates to be installed.

Formula 1 is a clear example of how a technology based sport can repeated redefine itself (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse). They once had turbos, special fuel, traction control, ABS, semi-automatic gear boxes, ground effects, active aerodynamics.....

Then at different times and to varying degrees, the sport decided that various technologies should be removed or changed to increase competition, increase safety, or refocus the competition on driver skills.

Even in cycling, far superior technology has been eliminated from competition by rigidly defiining the allowed configuration for the bicycles.


I present that well advancement should occur, it does not mean that you have to use every little edge that technology can get you to be populer, using these edges just helps sell players new gear as the rules and technology keep advancing.

Yes, change should occur when justifiable and controllable. The “controlable” aspect is difficult as the entire industry (manufacturing and marketing) and not just individual fields and tournaments has the biggest role to play.

[yakitori]

paintball guns and cars or racing is a retarded comparison. Youre comparing apples and oranges. Its pointless to try to make that connection. But oh well, ive seen it done over and over on AO.

[SlartyBartFast]

Ive proven my case...

You couldn't proove the Earth is round or that darkness is a lack of light. :rolleyes:

Read your posts again Yukky. If you're honest with yourself you'll see that your few nuggets of truth are buried in a pile of steaminh dung.

Hitech gave me three hails. :cheers: The people who are worth respecting respect me back. That's all that matters to me.

[Lohman446]

paintball guns and cars or racing is a retarded comparison. Youre comparing apples and oranges. Its pointless to try to make that connection. But oh well, ive seen it done over and over on AO.


I'm comparing limiting technological advancement in competetive events and using an example where they have successfully done so. How is that retarded?

[SlartyBartFast]

paintball guns and cars or racing is a retarded comparison..

How's it RETARDED? Huh smart guy? (there's another one of your trademark insults and putdowns with zero intellectual substance) :confused:


Youre comparing apples and oranges. Its pointless to try to make that connection..

It's apple and oranges? Make some intelligent points and tell us how. But counter point arguments made not make your own personal tangent. :nono:

It's pointless? Well others have said why it's relevant. You've just whined and griped. :cry:


But oh well, ive seen it done over and over on AO.

And you complete it all with the standard hattrick. Tarnish and insult the entire AO community. :tard:

In the words of Bugs Bunny: "What a maroon." :rofl:

[bound for glory]

heres a "new" idea. limited paint. lets see how much speed matters when you only have your hopper filled.

[SlartyBartFast]

heres a "new" idea. limited paint. lets see how much speed matters when you only have your hopper filled.

Certainly. But hardly new.

One of many ideas, but I've broached the subject before and all the fanboys are still more attracted to big name, big prize competition than a good clean test of skill. Why else has every major event gone that way?

limited paint
standard marker
standard hopper
stock class
modified stock class

or even the current rules and game with the rules enforced effectively and without hesitation.

ALL would be an improvement to the current "proffesional" ranks.

[yakitori]

hey, FatFartyBastard. I can change your name too. Yours looks dumber than mine.

your a bunch of pansies that cant take the heat. If all you can do is gripe about ramping, you need to stop playing paintball.

And, I HAVE proven my points. Look at the link in my thread. You asked who is against ramping and I gave you a link to many ppl who have posted against it, yet want pred board, or new firmware for their emag. You tally up the names dork, youre so smart. You do it. Im not wasting anymore time on your ignorant posts. Again, you speak of American paintball like you live in the states. Whos the maroon? I think you are. You are a hardcore nerd.

:cool:

[SlartyBartFast]

American?!? Paintball.

It's played all over the world you dweeb. Unfortunately the Fanboys here (and elsewhere outside the Excited States :p ) read the same paintball news drivel as Americans do. Also, the game attracts the same Rambo idiot wannabes and other mental cases everywhere.

And why do we have to play your way or leave? We're not all cheaters or moral degenerates who don't care about the rules. Caring about the rules doesn't hinge on how much speedball I play.

In fact, the more I play the more I want to test my SKILLS. One of which would be shooting skills. And not just the depths of my wallet or my skill and stretching and breaking rules.

You haven't quoted a single hypocritical word. And only in the logically impared world where decisions are all black and white and all decisions/choices are absolute would any of your thinking make any kind of reasonable sense.

While my name may be funnier, and it's an internet forum so why do I care what you do to it, I'm willing to have a poll on who thinks who's line of "reasoning" in sillier. :clap:

But I admit the name change was a low blow, far too personal, and uncalled for. I still stand by everything else I've said.

And I just realised something. Seeing as you're ALWAYS ragging on AO, you obviously don't see yourself as part of the group. So why do you stay?

Or, why don't you drop the hyperbole and simply discuss a few points without making rash generalisations.

[Load SM5]

Slarty and Yakitori- Take it anywhere else but here. It's getting out of hand. First and only warning.

[MarkM]

To all taking part in this thread back up and think before you post. Flaming and personal attacks are grounds for bans. Regardless of if you agree with the others person's comments or not. Try and keep it to a civil level.


I will say is that if you set a marker to illegal settings it will stay there until you change it as they don't magically change...how those changes are made differs from board to board some are sensibly set (takes a while to change) others are not.
Different leagues have different stands with regard to what is allowed or not, their reasons for reaching these rules are their reasons not for the great unwashed to complain about...you either play under those rules or you don't, by that I mean you comply or if you choose to cheat then accept the consequences.
This is not the first time Dynasty has been involved with suspect firing (regarding alledged board failure).
Breakout modes were around long before the Predator included them....why do you think it was called a breakout mode...Predator modes are clear and precise no hidden "Ninja Death Monkey" modes.
Ramping in one form or another is here to stay, many said that Constant Air would prove to be the death of paintball then it was semi's then electro's now it is modes, yes there was a time when even a Classic Mag was banned from tournaments...the most common complaint is the rules regarding hoppers and force feed allowability (not a word but it fits).
Do the crime and you pay the time, Salms and Avalanche both did.

[hitech]

Different leagues have different stands with regard to what is allowed or not, their reasons for reaching these rules are their reasons not for the great unwashed to complain about...

I would wholeheartly disagree. For if "we" don't complain, no one will. And "we" are what all this is about. It's kind of like saying that a countries citizens shouldn't complain about the laws it's government makes...

[hitech]

Ramping in one form or another is here to stay...

I don't believe that is a foregone conclusion.


Many said that Constant Air would prove to be the death of paintball then it was semi's, then electro's...

I don't remember it that way. I remember "everyone" saying that you had to have them to compete...

[FSU_Paintball]

I heard something about a battery putting out too much voltage, shorting out the board and uncapping it or something...

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

But honestly, 22BPS sounds a LOT different than 15BPS. I personally don't think it was intentional... it's just too obvious!!!

[SlartyBartFast]

But honestly, 22BPS sounds a LOT different than 15BPS. I personally don't think it was intentional... it's just too obvious!!!

Who cares if it was intentional?

The rule was borken, the penalty needs to be enforced. If it keeps happening the penalty has to become harsher.

If it was intentional, the enforced penalties will discourage players from cheating. If it was unintentional it will encourage players to find reliable equipment that isn't capable of breaking the rules.

[BD_Paintball]

I heard something about a battery putting out too much voltage, shorting out the board and uncapping it or something...

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

But honestly, 22BPS sounds a LOT different than 15BPS. I personally don't think it was intentional... it's just too obvious!!!


that was ryan greenspan at the chi open and that battery story is a bunch of BS.

[Ultimator]

The guys who films our team was on the Dynasty field during this game, and he caught a good view of all this bull. He was standing by the deadbox when they broke out, and off the break they are all shooting 22 bps. With all the shooting and yelling, it's tough to tell they're shooting that much faster. After they get into their bunkers, they tap the button once and it goes down to 15. Our camera guy zooms in on Brian Cole and you can clearly see him doing this. With the Greenspan situation, he dove into snake, got up and started walking down the tape shooting. This is when you can clearly hear his gun is at 22 bps. My guess is he dove into snake and accidentally hit the button, putting it into 22 bps.

[BD_Paintball]

The guys who films our team was on the Dynasty field during this game, and he caught a good view of all this bull. He was standing by the deadbox when they broke out, and off the break they are all shooting 22 bps. With all the shooting and yelling, it's tough to tell they're shooting that much faster. After they get into their bunkers, they tap the button once and it goes down to 15. Our camera guy zooms in on Brian Cole and you can clearly see him doing this. With the Greenspan situation, he dove into snake, got up and started walking down the tape shooting. This is when you can clearly hear his gun is at 22 bps. My guess is he dove into snake and accidentally hit the button, putting it into 22 bps.

and we can see this so called vid where?? off the break it didnt sound like they were all shooting that fast. sounded like 15 to me

[surealpaintballer]

that was ryan greenspan at the chi open and that battery story is a bunch of BS.
so he did this before...this would be is second time?


and we can see this so called vid where?? off the break it didnt sound like they were all shooting that fast. sounded like 15 to me

i too would like to see this vid...

[MarkM]

I would wholeheartly disagree. For if "we" don't complain, no one will. And "we" are what all this is about. It's kind of like saying that a countries citizens shouldn't complain about the laws it's government makes...

Just quoting the one post for ease ;)

Too many people have a vested interest in what is allowed and some even totally dissagree as to what electro's can actually do the differences in league rules are always going to be there. In Hockey they now enforce the use of helmets...though don't enforce the chin straps being done up properly...grandad leagues enforce full face protection but the "Pro" leagues don't both exist and both will continue to exist but the reasons for why will not change regardless of how much complaining is done by the masses...the only way a change would happen is if the masses walk or refuse to play...that isn't going to happen any time soon.

Ramping, because of this above is why it is here to stay.

The CA etc etc was the as I said it and the arguement you have given is also the one used today regarding ramping. As others are doing it so I (the masses) want to, you can't have it both ways you either allow it or you don't.
When I began playing tournaments I had to buy a 12 gram quick change to take part although I played walk-on with a CA tank, then CA was allowed but no semi's...worked fine but then semi's were allowed and people cried unfair but it happened and continued with the electro's with the same complaints about rate of fire...ok sometime hopefully soon the speed race will top out but who knows when that will be.

[Ultimator]

and we can see this so called vid where?? off the break it didnt sound like they were all shooting that fast. sounded like 15 to me
I'll talk to the camera guy and see if he can put it online. It's incredibly obvious in the video, but I'm not gonna break my back to prove a couple of e-badasses wrong.

[SlartyBartFast]

I'll talk to the camera guy and see if he can put it online. It's incredibly obvious in the video, but I'm not gonna break my back to prove a couple of e-badasses wrong.

Why not?

Conclusive video proof of an entire team cheating would be the biggest paintball news story since the woods sniper incident.

Out the cheaters!

[Jonno06]

i could have swore that it was dynasty's sister team, entourage, that got caught with a cheater gun?