Is AGD going to make it?

[A.T.S]

I love my Mag! And I want it to be supported for the next 20 years! Or... at least be able to buy a new AGD gun for the next 20 years. Is our cult strong enough to keep the beast alive?

[Vex]

[BEGIN RANT]Only if we keep buying AGD. All good things come to an end though--look at WGP. Sure the Cocker is still around, but it's made in Taiwan now. Let's hope that AGD will go under before they ship their "strict production requirements"* to the Chinese to make our beloved Mags!




*I mention this because you always see this disclaimer on tons of so called "quality" products that are made in China. Like the manufacturers think they are fooling us into believing that the Chinese will adhere to their "stirict production requirements"--yeah right![/END RANT]

[Jaan]

[BEGIN RANT]*I mention this because you always see this disclaimer on tons of so called "quality" products that are made in China. Like the manufacturers think they are fooling us into believing that the Chinese will adhere to their "stirict production requirements"--yeah right![/END RANT]
The Chinese get better and better at this stuff each day. Japan went through the same thing, and now look at thier quality. A lot of "American" companies have to have thier entry level stuff made overseas and the higher end stuff made here. That's the only way they can survive.

I wish Automags haden't dissapeared from the mainstream. It wasn't that long ago where maybe what ... 40%? ... of the high end markers you saw in tourneys were 'Mags. The rest were 'Cockers. I guess people want a yearly upgrade path. It broke my heart to see 'Mags dissapear little by little until you hardly see them at all. A kid at a paintball store asked me the other day "is that an old Shocker?" Ugh. AGD could get back that market again, but they're going to have to do something that will surprise us all. We'll see.

[Glickman]

were not gonna take it!

no! we aint gonna take it!



outsourcing is a great thing, but it depends on the product

personally, i think if you hand the japanese 100 mags, within a year, youll see mags getting 2000 shots per fill.

when we've lost our intuitiveness on a product, hand it to the japanese

[Evil Bob]

Actually, you might be surprised, I'm seeing more and more tac 1's showing up at scenario gigs, the guys like the weight, its closer to the weight of a real weapon, something the mil sim crowd is into big time. Rarely do you see a mil simmer complaining about weight especially when they have an extra 5-8 pounds of effects (shrouds, bi-pods, etc) bolted on, that's part and parcel to the mil simulation.

The tourny scene is only a small part of the entire paintball market, just because you dont see alot of mags at tournies doesn't mean they're not selling, we're talking about less then 1% of the entire paintball playing market here, the tip of the pyramid. The pyramid's base is much broader and wider, a better part of the market to shoot for (business economics 101).

-Evil Bob

[peewee]

I'm not going to start wearing black as of yet. I have honestly see more mags at rec-games in the last year than I had in the previous 4.

[Muzikman]

Honestly, AGD needs to make a blowback and a Sheridan based pump. I think if they did that they would take even more of the scenario market. You will never beat Tippmann in this market, but there surely is room for another company.

[UTDragun]

I dont know about tourney pb being only 1%, id say its closer to 15, or at least 10, but if I had the money for a devilmag, id be the only one shooting a mag at CFOA which would be as cool as the other side of the pillow

also, is there a way to attach a warpfeed to a vert feed gun in a way that if something happens, I could just disconnect the T and put hte halo on top?

[JimmyBeam]

well as long as AO doesnt go away........

[BigEvil]

There is a big difference between tourny players and 'wannabee-tourny players"

The actualy tournament players is about 1% of the market....
The Wannabees on the other hand are a much larger percent. They are the ones that buy everything that is hot or trendy. Its smart to go after that market too.

This is also where all of the technical advances come from.

[GoblinGreen]

I think AGD should be on top of this TAG Predator board, If the were selling it as a AGD type product, they could test it, put their stamp of approval on it and market it. Start selling Tac-Ones with a decent board in it and bang!
All the kiddies want to buy markers with all gadgets and dont want to limited at all.
If I wanna put my marker in full auto and show off, let me. Obviously have a tourney lock and ball limiter, but Marketing a terrible for AGD. In SA everybody thinks AGD was closed down by that whole Smart Parts issue. I mean there isn't even one AGD ad in the Face-full or any Magazine for scenario players to even buy a Tac-one.
I will stick to my AGD guns but it feels like they wanna fade away :cry:

[CaptainNeeda]

Honestly, AGD needs to make a blowback and a Sheridan based pump


:confused: Please tell me that you are kidding about that! :confused:

The blow forward system is in almost every way equall to the blow back system

[slade]

ehh, another one of these threads... i dont know which is more common, this or complaints about ramping.


I wish Automags haden't dissapeared from the mainstream. It wasn't that long ago where maybe what ... 40%? ... of the high end markers you saw in tourneys were 'Mags. The rest were 'Cockers. I guess people want a yearly upgrade path. It broke my heart to see 'Mags dissapear little by little until you hardly see them at all. A kid at a paintball store asked me the other day "is that an old Shocker?" Ugh. AGD could get back that market again, but they're going to have to do something that will surprise us all. We'll see.
what store was that? saturday at maynard paintball (great field btw) a kid asked my friend with his really old spyder "is that a minimag?" ive seen a few other mags at different fields, especially boston paintball and fox 4. when i used my mag as my main marker, i always got compliments on it, and the refs knew what it was (although the logic vert frame sometimes threw them a bit off...)

[slade]

The blow forward system is in almost every way equall to the blow back system
agreed. actually, if AGD released a nicer looking and lighter classic, maybe even with an electro frame, that would be a lot better than a blowback. (plus, personally i hate blowbacks...) the pump is a great idea though, pump play is coming back and i think i myself may get in on some of the action.

[Muzikman]

:confused: Please tell me that you are kidding about that! :confused:

The blow forward system is in almost every way equall to the blow back system

No, I am not kidding. By nature mags do not like CO2. A lot of the rec and big game players still use CO2. Blow Backs do not have this problems and some you can even run a siphon tank on them and they run fine (this is great for cold weather).

I never said the mag design was poor, it's a great design, but it's just not what the rec or big game players use.

[Jaan]

what store was that? saturday at maynard paintball (great field btw) a kid asked my friend with his really old spyder "is that a minimag?" ive seen a few other mags at different fields, especially boston paintball and fox 4. when i used my mag as my main marker, i always got compliments on it, and the refs knew what it was (although the logic vert frame sometimes threw them a bit off...)It was just a 15 year old kid who was in PW Paintball in Plainville. In all fairness, you can't expect a 15 year old to remember what it was like 10 years ago (c: Rest assured, I set him strait and then let him shoot the gun a bit. The young man is now a little wiser. When you can get a jaded teenager to say "wow, this is awesome" it makes you fell pretty good.

[barrel break]

[BEGIN RANT]Only if we keep buying AGD. All good things come to an end though--look at WGP. Sure the Cocker is still around, but it's made in Taiwan now. Let's hope that AGD will go under before they ship their "strict production requirements"* to the Chinese to make our beloved Mags!




*I mention this because you always see this disclaimer on tons of so called "quality" products that are made in China. Like the manufacturers think they are fooling us into believing that the Chinese will adhere to their "stirict production requirements"--yeah right![/END RANT]
Actually, those chinese factories make some extremely good product, in fact, many times they do a much better job than their american counterparts, who cost more.

[Vex]

Actually, those chinese factories make some extremely good product, in fact, many times they do a much better job than their american counterparts, who cost more.
But the problem is, they ARE using cheaper materials and labor, yet they ARE selling the products for the same price. Of course they are making money. I'm sorry, I don't want to pay $1200 for a marker that's made in China--no matter what company name is on it.
It's just sad to see that one of the best selling guns of all time--Autococker--has left American hands. Does that mean that Automags are next? If AGD wants to compete, then maybe they will outsource.
To me, that will be the end of AGD.

[barrel break]

But the problem is, they ARE using cheaper materials and labor, yet they ARE selling the products for the same price. Of course they are making money. I'm sorry, I don't want to pay $1200 for a marker that's made in China--no matter what company name is on it.
It's just sad to see that one of the best selling guns of all time--Autococker--has left American hands. Does that mean that Automags are next? If AGD wants to compete, then maybe they will outsource.
To me, that will be the end of AGD.
More profit there, but no difference in quality if you use the right factories in China, trust me.

[.68bruise]

I played sunday and besides my warped mag I saw another warped mag, an emag, a mini and at least 3 tacs.
I could not belive there were so many mags!
Long live AGD

[A.T.S]

I am just afraid that if AGD goes away, I will not be able to find a reg. seat or bolt springs and my Mag will eventually go down and never get back up! <:o(

[BD_Paintball]

if they do not make a new gun then AGD will die. there are not enough people to keep AGD alive with all the new, cheap(in price) guns comming out.

[Muzikman]

I am just afraid that if AGD goes away, I will not be able to find a reg. seat or bolt springs and my Mag will eventually go down and never get back up! <:o(


Trust me, there are so many mags out there that someone will pick up the production of the parts needed to keep them running.

[Vex]

More profit there, but no difference in quality if you use the right factories in China, trust me.
If there's no difference in quality or price, then why should we support a company that outsources their production if we have a choice?
I don't want to hijack this thread...so I'll just end it here.

[peewee]

The company that I currently work for outsources many of our cast aluminum parts with target incorporated in China. They for the most part have done very well. But I couldn't care less. :mad: The new owners are outsourcing our entire product line to Mexico & China. Within the year 475 people that have been an extended family to me for 17 plus years will be without work. I have moved on having a specific skill set & a very large amount of luck. There has been a several cases as of late where the outsourced parts honestly cost more from China than produced local. They still outsourced. :tard: Kind of hard to buy the new cheaper China/Mexico produced marker when you don't have a job.

[Aslan]

:ninja:
If I had to vote...I'd say AGD is probably on the way out. I don't want it to be...I think they make a great product...and I just bought one and will probably buy another one soon...so I'll need parts... But paintball money is made in two ways...low end and high end. With Cockers dominating the high end and the introduction of the Ion (which has MONOPOLIZED every thread here and at pbnation AND everywhere else)...and Tippmann keeping a stranglehold on low-end quality products...I don't see alot of hope. Most markers that challenge Angels and DM5s do it by adding speed to speed to speed...and flashy to flashy. Tippmann is the only one staying away from the "flash and speed"...but that's because they are dominating the low-end market...and they did put out the A5 to at least have a presence in the mid-high end scenario arena.

Of the two paintball stores near me, one doesn't carry Mags...it's primarily a Cocker store. The other one had one Pro Classic for sale and a limited number of Mag parts...but when I went in the guy was practically hitting me over the head with some Impulse or Ion or some stupid black box looking thing. The funny part is the next time I went to the field I saw some stupid nerd kid with the same exact "black box" gun and he went home early because the gun wouldn't fire right. I felt bad because...hey, been there...but I also was a little happy. :)

[Commissar_Loki]

Well AGD may be able to take the rec or at least tap into it quite well if they can convince people to run a tank vertically. Thats all I use and I'm getting +- roughly 7 FPS with good paint, better than my nitro. So mags on CO2 run fine with a little tweeking. I'd like to be able to pass my marker down to someone when i'm too old and have it run like it was new... only marker I know that can do that is a mag.


-Butch

[slade]

With Cockers dominating the high end
:confused:

it seems to me like the "high end" market is taken up more by matrices, timmies, angels, egos, shockers, vikings, etc. than cockers.

[Lohman446]

:ninja: With Cockers dominating the high end

Someone needs to send a memo to Dye, BLAST, SP, WDP, and Eclipse. WGP might want to hear this good news too because I think most of the above have been left out of that little bit of insight.

[Muzikman]

Well AGD may be able to take the rec or at least tap into it quite well if they can convince people to run a tank vertically. Thats all I use and I'm getting +- roughly 7 FPS with good paint, better than my nitro. So mags on CO2 run fine with a little tweeking. I'd like to be able to pass my marker down to someone when i'm too old and have it run like it was new... only marker I know that can do that is a mag.


-Butch

I ran my mag off CO2 for many year back in the 90's. For the most part I did not have a problem. But when I did, it sucked. Also, the amount of expansion chambers, remote hose and regulators that the CO2 passed trhough to make the gun work well on CO2 was a bit extreme. By nature mags do not like CO2, but that does not mean you can not get them to work on CO2. Also, the X-valve folks are out of luck as the retro/x-valves can't run on CO2, or atleast safely run on CO2.

[spyderkiller]

I've been wondering about the status of AGD as well. What's going on? What's the production status of the current line of mags, and has there been any hinting of a new marker any time soon? I agree that AGD has to do something drastic and come out with something completely new to shove their way back into the mainstream and stay alive.

[dolphin1823]

I think AGD should get their sales reps on the phone and try to start selling the Pro-classic to fields as a rental marker. The Pro-classic is many steps above a model 98 or a piranna, easy to maintain, and are reliable. What may really help is to get together with PMI and combine a Pro-classic w/ PMI's 47ci 3000 aluminum nito tanks for the field rentals. Before some says "mags are to expensive for fields to buy" I know that Fox River Games has always rented out Mags, now with nitro tanks. Infact they were renting them out when I first started playing back in the Spring of 1992 (co2 then) and back then Mags were 3 times as much as they are now.

[Muzikman]

AGD Sales Rep? They have those? (I'm not joking).

I think that's a great idea, but you would have to run HPA as Mag as a rental with CO2 is ugly. You end up replacing orings every week.

[UTDragun]

also, is there a way to attach a warpfeed to a vert feed gun in a way that if something happens, I could just disconnect the T and put hte halo on top?
.

[Arstron]

My local field only has hpa tanks for their model 98 rentals. I think having a compressor and renting only hpa tanks would be a great investment for any field. Correct me if im wrong, but didnt AGD have some 68 classic mags they sold just as rentals?

[Muzikman]

Yes, AGD had a rental valve. It had a different power tube and I beleive a lower pressure piston to not allow the gun to shoot hot. I do not know this for sure as I am still looking for a rental valve to add to my collection.

[Teamslayer76]

I don't think everyone here is ready to see a non-agd products. Because they only way AGD would be able to sell something efficently is to sell it to that mass market. Well theres problems with that people don't want a 10 year old gun or a gun based off that even though it does happen. Also I don't think the already in place Mag product base is willing to see a NON-Mag like gun. I can honestly say I"m not, and I bet that the majority of us arent ready to see the mag be shoved away for a new fangeled super design from AGD.

Also I brought up the topic a while ago about the valve itself being pushed more. Can it be made any better than the X-Valve is possible? All IMO.

[spyderkiller]

I don't think everyone here is ready to see a non-agd products. Because they only way AGD would be able to sell something efficently is to sell it to that mass market. Well theres problems with that people don't want a 10 year old gun or a gun based off that even though it does happen. Also I don't think the already in place Mag product base is willing to see a NON-Mag like gun. I can honestly say I"m not, and I bet that the majority of us arent ready to see the mag be shoved away for a new fangeled super design from AGD.

Also I brought up the topic a while ago about the valve itself being pushed more. Can it be made any better than the X-Valve is possible? All IMO.


Well, I don't think it really matters that the majority of us wouldn't buy something new like that...it's that it would appeal to the people who are looking for something high end and haven't been loyal mag owners. Say jimbob is starting big into tournies wants to buy a new electro, so he narrows it down to the DM5, Alias, and Ego....but then he hears about the new gun from AGD, the supermag or whatever...he doesn't know much about AGD except that they made some of the best guns when paintball was in its childhood and teen years, so he decides to give it a try. The point is to keep AGD alive...and to do that, they're going to have to sell something different than mags to people other than us loyal followers. Don't know if that makes sense....
Oh, and I'd definitely consider buying something new from AGD, even if it is nothing like a mag.

[Muzikman]

I don't think everyone here is ready to see a non-agd products. Because they only way AGD would be able to sell something efficently is to sell it to that mass market. Well theres problems with that people don't want a 10 year old gun or a gun based off that even though it does happen. Also I don't think the already in place Mag product base is willing to see a NON-Mag like gun. I can honestly say I"m not, and I bet that the majority of us arent ready to see the mag be shoved away for a new fangeled super design from AGD.

Also I brought up the topic a while ago about the valve itself being pushed more. Can it be made any better than the X-Valve is possible? All IMO.


I hate to say it, most of the guns sold are based on 10 year old technology. Hell, the cocker is still selling by the tens of thousands (if not more) and it's based on technology dating back to pellet guns made in the 60's.

What AGD needs to go is change the name of the company and change the name of the gun and then re-release the Xmag under a new name and make the reg oval instead of round and I bet it would sell (but would also have to bring the cost down to about $800).

[Aslan]

:confused:

it seems to me like the "high end" market is taken up more by matrices, timmies, angels, egos, shockers, vikings, etc. than cockers.

I'm not saying that cockers are the best, just that they still have a very large following. Timmies, vikings, DMs, and angels are still "elite" markers...but as far as "volume" goes...cockers, shockers, and ions seem to be everywhere. Maybe I'm wrong...I play primarily woodsball so I don't see too many Angels, vikings, or DMs and I see alot of cockers on store shelves.

[LONEWOLFOO1]

one of the reasons i bought a agd marker because it was made in america i seen to much outsourceing from other companys look at walmart. puts smart parts to shame support america!

[peewee]

I agree with lonewolf001 on this one. ( but I do own an ion) I am looking at buying American made products more & more. The Plamer kids ( anyone having that much fun doing what they do are kids) are going to be earning some of my money. I dont care if my mag is "high-End" or popular it Git's-r-dun!!!! :shooting:

[xsiegex]

I hope AGD doesn't end up having their products made in China. Japan is ok, but I don't buy anything made in a communist country.

[Lurker27]

AGD should just go ahead and make a nelson style poppet electropneu. God knows everyone else is. Idea: Balance the poppet and spring it up for use with a big solenoid, and put it in a relatively tiny tube recessed into the frame. Tune it like an mQ, maybe use half an emag battery pack and keep things rechargeable. Go with simple styling, like the ULE body. Tiny and light. And cost effective. Yoink ECS code and compile into a new board. The R&D would be pretty minimal.

Honestly, if AGD could produce a $700 gun with todays technology, who wouldn't buy it?

[VFX_Fenix]

why oh why would you want to but Enhanced Cricket Software into an AGD Product? Bad enough its on an Impulse.

AGD's PCB Software can be improved uppon based on the limitations of what ever they design, I'm sure there will be enhanced firing modes as well if these continue to be expected (and they undoubtedly will).

AGD just really needs to do something to changed their image and product line. That means an ad campaign, even if it's the revival of the AGD Lions with their new "Top-o-the-line" marker. Generate some buzz, something, anything.

AGD has long prided itself on being an Engineering company, however its going to take a lot more than just Engineering to rebuild AGD to a common place name like WGP, Bob Long, ICD, Smart Parts, etc.

I don't claim to be an engineer, nor do I claim to know what's going on within AGD. However from the outside looking in AGD seems to be going the way of the Airstar. Though I suppose it's possible that AGD will remain something along the lines of PPS, though PPS has more than just guns to keep them going.

[ultralight]

i agree with muzikman, AGD need's a facelift.

change the name of the company, change the name of the marker, make a devilmag with a hybrid 86* frame and sell it for 799.

buddy up with PBX and make a higher end version with an MQ, dallara body and vert to compete with the g7, they look like cousins anyway, sell it for 1199.

buddy up with PTP/BE and endorse a pneumatic version sell it for 599 .

and of course make an entry level mech with a ule type body and double trigger (along the lines of a cf intelli) for 199.

bringing back rental markers is an excellent idea.

the biggest part of all would be to hire one hell of a publicist and don't dare mention the word Automag.

and of course, field a team of ringers equipped with the g7 killers/ pneumatics..

oh yeah, muzik, how much are you willing to spend on a rental mag?

[MoneyShot]

I would definately hate to see AGD go. My favorite gun i have ever owned is a mag. They are very easy to take care of, fix, are very accurate, and are very easy to make so many different upgrades to customize it any way you want it.

[Aslan]

I went to the local paintball store today looking for mag barrel O-Rings...didn't have them. No mags on the wall...mostly cockers, DM5s, impulses, shockers... He said he had a parts kit somewhere that he could sell me that contained a couple of the barrel o-rings. For me, the worst part about paintball is how the guns become outdated and hard to get parts for so fast. In 5 years, a gun gets impossible to repair much less upgrade. I have an old Raptor Silver Eagle...impossible to get parts for. An old Tippmann Pro-Lite...only seen a few parts kits/rebuild kits...and they cost more than the gun. And now I've seen Mag parts starting to disappear. It's too bad...because other than the 13 year old crowd that only likes a marker if it's anodized, 20+bps, and over $700...I've rarely heard complaints from Mag owners about the quality of these guns.