Possibly the perfect gun

[magzown3]

So we've already got ULE bodies and LVL 10 and other real nice features, but it could get better.

Steps to turning the automag into the perfect gun:
-remove back reg and cap off (use vertical reg instead)......reduces weight, reduces gun size
-remove external hose and mill out internal airways...........obvious reasons
-electronics (including eyes)............................................. increase speed and reinforce anti-chop


I know that these have all been discussed before but I just wanted to let these ideas resurface. I have no skills to make any of this happen but I know that someone out there does. Just imagine this gun...it just may be perfect. What do you guys think?

I'm gunna see if I can get a photoshopped pic up in here soon.

If you have any other ideas on topic please feel free to post.

[p8ntball365]

Why would you want to remove the reg? The mag reg has the fastest recharge ever. Why you would want to get rid of it is beyond me.

[magzown3]

and then it must be possible to redesign vertically

[warbeak2099]

Not get rid of it. Turn it into a vert reg.

[barrel break]

why would you want it to be be vertical? Besides, it is an integral part of the whole valve design. (As far as I know)

[magzown3]

seems like most people use a foregrip anyways so why not just use a vert reg and elminate the need to put it on the back

[68magOwner]

i believe tom said that an X vavle reg could not be replicated in a vert reg form (this was discussed around the time of the 2 liter

[JRingold]

If you are concerned with the very small weight of the regulator being on the back of the valve, you must be running a remote then, because if you have a tank on that thing, it really doesn't matter where the damn regulator is.

The ONLY part for which I am even partially in agreement is the air line. But that's just a cosmetic thing.

[hockeynoodles020]

So we've already got ULE bodies and LVL 10 and other real nice features, but it could get better.

Steps to turning the automag into the perfect gun:
-remove back reg and cap off (use vertical reg instead)......reduces weight, reduces gun size
-remove external hose and mill out internal airways...........obvious reasons
-electronics (including eyes)............................................. increase speed and reinforce anti-chop


I know that these have all been discussed before but I just wanted to let these ideas resurface. I have no skills to make any of this happen but I know that someone out there does. Just imagine this gun...it just may be perfect. What do you guys think?

I'm gunna see if I can get a photoshopped pic up in here soon.

If you have any other ideas on topic please feel free to post.

Someone has already done that...they go by the name of Smart Parts and they call it a shocker :nono:

[yakitori]

There is no perfect gun. And if there was, I dont think AGD would be making it.

[Load SM5]

Actually it pretty closely describes a freestyle. The insides are pretty darn mag-like.

[yakitori]

Actually it pretty closely describes a freestyle. The insides are pretty darn mag-like.

or the Ion. ;)

[SpecialBlend2786]

or the Ion. ;)

no.... I believe the Ion uses a spool valve.

The insides of the Freestyle are very similar to the mag though.

[VFX_Fenix]

Remains that the Ion is a blow-foward semi with a pneumatic return (as opposed to the spring that the Mag uses). The Ion uses air from the dump chamber to push the bolt forward, the Mag works the same way though the design is slightly different. The Ion is a Mag that's all pneumatic in its essence.

This differs from guns like the Shocker and Matrix (though not by much) which move thier bolts forward with pneumatic pressure routed through the selenoid and not soley from the dump chamber.

[TheDuelist]

The perfect gun is the one that fits your style of play the best at the time. As time goes on and your style progresses so will your need to change, either a little or a lot depending on the person. There will never be a "perfect" gun because someone will always come along and find some way to make something that either adds to its performance or to its looks. If what you listed is your perfect gun then get started studying the various fields that wil put you in a place to build it. You never know, it may become the next "insert name of over-hyped hunk of aluminum here." Good luck and happy hunting.

[yakitori]

no.... I believe the Ion uses a spool valve.

The insides of the Freestyle are very similar to the mag though.


wrong. Its blowforward. VFX describes it for you. And I wouldnt say it if I didnt own one and have disassembled and relubed it and know how the gun works.

Its the one gun that is most similar to mag design as far as bolt function. Even moreso than the freestyle. Only its electro pneumatic, and has less kick, and a buttload quieter, and the inline reg runs at 140psi on mine w/ the QEV in it. And my dwell is at 5.5 ms as oppposed to 16ms stock. ;).

[Alpha]

Someone has already done that...they go by the name of Smart Parts and they call it a shocker :nono:


Oww.. my heart.. Ahh it burns :mad:

[yakitori]

The perfect gun is the one that fits your style of play the best at the time. As time goes on and your style progresses so will your need to change, either a little or a lot depending on the person. There will never be a "perfect" gun because someone will always come along and find some way to make something that either adds to its performance or to its looks. If what you listed is your perfect gun then get started studying the various fields that wil put you in a place to build it. You never know, it may become the next "insert name of over-hyped hunk of aluminum here." Good luck and happy hunting.

agreed.

[SpecialBlend2786]

wrong. Its blowforward. VFX describes it for you. And I wouldnt say it if I didnt own one and have disassembled and relubed it and know how the gun works.

Its the one gun that is most similar to mag design as far as bolt function. Even moreso than the freestyle. Only its electro pneumatic, and has less kick, and a buttload quieter, and the inline reg runs at 140psi on mine w/ the QEV in it. And my dwell is at 5.5 ms as oppposed to 16ms stock. ;).

I stand corrected in that case lol :)

[vegasmunky12]

Why would you want to remove the reg? The mag reg has the fastest recharge ever. Why you would want to get rid of it is beyond me.
Not get rid of it, move it. Reread his post. :p

[Dayspring]

Look up "pressure drop across the line". You'll then realize why the mag reg is bolted directly on to the back of the air chamber.

[FallNAngel]

Even moreso than the freestyle.

Only in the fact that it cuts off its own air supply... other than that, I don't see how one is more like a mag than the other.


Isnt DYE suing Smart Parts because they believe its a Spool Valve? Is DYE wrong too?

AFAIK, they're suing Smart Parts because the bolt cuts off it's own air supply, which is patented by Dye

[p8ntball365]

Not get rid of it, move it. Reread his post. :p

No he said "use vert reg instead"

[yakitori]

Isnt DYE suing Smart Parts because they believe its a Spool Valve? Is DYE wrong too?

didnt they drop the case? And dye believing it is spool valve doesnt make it so. Ive even seen a magazine w/ a review on the ion and they called it a spool valve. Its not. Spool valves are like matrixes and shockers, The Ion operates just like the mag. I guess the freestlye is the same too.

here, scroll down to number 11. The Ion bolt is always pressurized in the back. It is always pressurized in the front unless when firing. Spool valves are not always pressurized in the front, or back. Read the link and here is the bolt animation. Im sure youve seen it already though. I wont post a picture of it because its not an Ion thread, and I dont want the fanboys getting ticked about it. ;)

http://www.kamworld.net/paintball/IonFAQ_Technical.html#T10

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

Possibly the perfect gun = the Ego.

[quik]

Make it a vertical reg, then every ball will shoot back up into your hopper!

Great idea guys!

[Lohman446]

Ehhh...

If I am asked what gun will still be in my gear bag in five years its a mechanical mag.

I can't say the same thing for the various Shockers, Ions, or even the Proto I am shooting now.

[slade]

Actually it pretty closely describes a freestyle. The insides are pretty darn mag-like.
and that just about is the perfect gun :D

[KRAKMT]

I shoot a hyper/dallara and just bought the new freestyle v7. The function is pretty close and after looking at the ion animation- I am surprised by how close the ion is to the v7. Neither close the input of the air during fire like the mag. Looks like a pnuematic driven bolt with leg back to the on/off would create an improvement over the ion/freestyle design.

[matt-o]

Remains that the Ion is a blow-foward semi with a pneumatic return (as opposed to the spring that the Mag uses). The Ion uses air from the dump chamber to push the bolt forward, the Mag works the same way though the design is slightly different. The Ion is a Mag that's all pneumatic in its essence.

This differs from guns like the Shocker and Matrix (though not by much) which move thier bolts forward with pneumatic pressure routed through the selenoid and not soley from the dump chamber.
hah, i assumed it worked ike the shocker. why would SP design a new bolt system if they already had the spool valve down? why not just make a cheap spool valve instead of desgning a new bolt system?

[Lohman446]

hah, i assumed it worked ike the shocker. why would SP design a new bolt system if they already had the spool valve down? why not just make a cheap spool valve instead of desgning a new bolt system?


Because the spool valve is licensed to SP from Dye and likely limited to the Shocker, at least as I understand it with limited knowledge

[ultralight]

apparently the ion design was an earlier shocker design that never made it into production as a shocker. instead we got the ion.

[SlartyBartFast]

A spool valve is simply ANY design that uses a valve body and a mobile "spool".
First hits in Google:
http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/14105/css/14105_106.htm
http://www.techconsystems.com/products/TS941.cfm

The "innovation" in paintball is the use of the spool as the bolt. The patented "idea" from DYE seems to be the fact the spool valve works as it would be designed by any sane engineer and properly seals when fully forward.

I've yet to really comprehend the difference between a "cartridge" valve and a "spool" valve.

But then again, in paintball most players still don't know how many ways their valves have. :p

[tony3]

Remember that capping the make would also shorten the marker up considerably. The heaviest part of the mag seems to be the reg to me. Put a 2 liter in the place of a gas through. Also you can cut the rail shorter.

[SlartyBartFast]

Remember that capping the make would also shorten the marker up considerably. The heaviest part of the mag seems to be the reg to me. Put a 2 liter in the place of a gas through. Also you can cut the rail shorter.

Once again, if you have a tank on your marker, don't complain about weight.

The 2liter wouldn't perform as well as the A.I.R.
The piping between the regulator and the ON/Off would cause a loss in performance.

[yakitori]

lets face it, mags are not going to change in their design. They found what works for the mag, and they are sticking with it. I dont see it as an advantage over the Ion or freestyle because the mag can be short stroked, electropnuematics cannot.

Still, it remains to be seen the "perfect" gun. Everyone has their preference based on thier skill level and style of paintball. There are too many guns w/ too many options for one to be the perfect one. If the mag is perfect for you, then its your gun. If the freestyle is perfect its your gun. Personally the viking fits me fine. I like it, it works for my style of ball, its my kinda gun. Others may not like the viking. Its not a big deal, its just preference.

[tony3]

Once again, if you have a tank on your marker, don't complain about weight.

The 2liter wouldn't perform as well as the A.I.R.
The piping between the regulator and the ON/Off would cause a loss in performance.

So you are telling me if I have an old style trix and an ego that it doesn't matter if the tank is on either, I can't complain about the weight, even if there is a very noticeable difference? That is the stupidest statement ever.

2liter preforms damn good and the difference wouldn't be noticeable.

I'm not really seeing how it would cause a loss in performance. Yes of course it would take longer to recharge just by the distance it would have to move, but would it be noticeable? Probably not.

[SlartyBartFast]

So you are telling me if I have an old style trix and an ego that it doesn't matter if the tank is on either, I can't complain about the weight, even if there is a very noticeable difference? ....

Well, we're not talking about an old style trix or an ego are we? :rolleyes:

Once the Mag is all ULE would it really be all that much different? And if you move the reg you're not going to save any weight are you? :rolleyes:

Why you'd want to change the fastest recharging reg for anything else is beyond me.

But, there have been those that gutted classic mags and ran Palmer Stabilisers instead.

[yakitori]

well actually the mag is backheavy because of the valve design. So an inline reg would balance the marker better. And for the price of ULE mag ups, you might as well buy a better gun.

And there wont be a noticable difference in performance. PPl say that because they say the mag valve is the 'fastest' recharging valve and can be over 30+bps w/o shootdown. But, who shoots that fast anyway. Its a waste, and its not legal either. Not only that, you need to crank up the input pressure to get it, which uses even more air. So, Ill bet that at input pressure of 800-850psi (or presets) that the 2 liter recharges faster than the air valve. Mabye not at 900+psi though. So, in terms of a legal setup, balancing the mag by putting an inline reg would not be as bad as ppl are making it sound to be. Only thing is to do that you would likely need internalize air passages w/in the rail, which would make the mag not as easy to work on as it is today.

They are probably the most simple guns that Ive ever taken apart, and having gaskets is not gonna be pretty for most ppl.

Although it would be nice to see a mag w/o that annoying 90 deg. input into the valve. Along w/ the 10-12" worth of macro or ss hose running along the marker.

[magzown3]

I'm on the same page as yakitori here...who cares if its the fastest charging reg, noone shoots over 25