Cocker leak question...

[deded]

So I got a used cocker, because I didn't have enough problems with my mag to post about :)

When I first gassed it up, I didn't have any paint, but I dry fired it a couple of times, and it looke like it was firing pretty well... then I ran out of air and just played with it with no air.

I was inspecting it pretty closely when I saw that the little rod that goes in the 4 way was coming out a little bit... It seemed like nothing was holding it in place. So I screwed it back in, and it looked better, more solid.

But then the next time I gassed it up, it leaked down the barrel really really really badly. It is like I am not cocking it before I gas it up, but I am. I went to paintballravi.com to check out what it might be, but it didn't seem like any of the solutions listed would work. I don't think a seal failed because it is not just a small leak, and it was only like 20 hours after it worked that it didn't work.

I think that it might have something to do with the 4 way, as that is the part that seemed to be falling apart, but I really don't know if the 4 way comes into play before the trigger is pulled.

I'll give any other info that is needed... but I don't know a lot about cockers yet so explain it to me like I'm a 2 year old! :D

Thanks a lot for any help!

[deded]

Somebody out there's gotta be a cocker genious...

Or does anyone have links to a good cocker page?

[Muzikman]

before you gas it up...manualy cock the gun by pull back on the back block all the way and then push it forward again. Gas up the gun and see if it still leaks down the barrel. If it does, then you have a bad valve would be my assumption. If it does not. Pull the trigger and see what happens. My guess is you screwed up the timing. This is the reason that if a cocker is working...DON'T TOUCH IT:)

[deded]

yeah it still leaks... I'm a cocker newbie, but I do know how to cock it :)

Are there any pictures anywhere that tell you where the valve is and how to get it out to check the seals and stuff?

[Drew]

am I the ONLY person that doesn't have problems with his Autococker? I bought a used ANS GenX, slapped on a 14" boomstick and added DYE stickies, and I love it! of corse I had the good sense not to fiddle with everything on the gun:D which is odd, because as a rule, men MUST screw with new toys:eek:

[deded]

I wasn't even going to screw with it... the 3 way rod thing came loose and i put it back in. Thats it! I swear.:D

But I think it must be a bad valve o ring or something, because I realized that I was using the wrong antisiphon tank, so it was siphoning liquid into the gun, which may have jacked up an O ring or two.

Now all I have to do is figure out how to take this thing apart without REALLY screwing it up.

Hehe wish me luck, I'm gonna search around for a good cocker breakdown page.

[mac2k4]

well what kinda air system are ya running into it? it could be too m,uch pressure, or not enough to cock it, make suer the cocking rod is cocked before ya put air into it. If ya have an adjustable reg. then unscrew it, and slowly scrw it back in to where the gun shoots smooth. And its not out of timming from adjusting the 3-way, maybe you set the 3-way in too much, or not enough so the o-rings on the 3-way rod arn't aligned to the holes in the 3-way housing.

my cockers don't mess up(all 3 of'em) and i don't know jack crap about cockers, i cn completley take'em apart put'em back together blah balh screew w/'em and all, i guess i'm lucky?

[deded]

Thanks for the reply... I'm going to try that out, and then I'm gonna try CO2 again to see if that works.

I have a preset 68/3k crossfire stub tank.
I also have an ANS gen X 2 inline regulator.
When you say unscrew the regulator, do you mean the inline reg, or the reg on the front of the gun?

Thanks again for the reply

[deded]

Hmmm, the CO2 leaked the same way, but its a newly filled bottle, so maybe its got too much pressure or something, because when it worked, it was a low bottle of CO2.

Any other ideas on what this might be... I'm open to any input.
:)

[mac2k4]

naw i mean the reg on the frontpnumatics, w/ ans reg, adjust it down, and see if it stops, if not ,then try turning it up

[deded]

I've been offline for a little with the whole @home thing. But unscrewing the reg doesn't seem to be working. Maybe it is a valve oring or something. Unfortunately I don't have a valve pulling tool.

Anyone know what else I could use to get the valve out to take a look at it?

Or should I just give up and take it to an airsmith?

[mac2k4]

i say take her to a certified cocker airsmith, or at least someone who knows what there doing, don't just let some one screw arund w/ it?

[SGTKennedy]

who needs a valve tool? i havent had to do it on a Cocker before but i usually just push the valve from the back. take out the striker and the nut that holds it in and push with a long screwdriver. works on Spyders, and *shivers* Brass Eagle stuff, but you might wanna be more careful cuz a cocker isnt a throwaway gun and the valves can get expensive.
Kennedy

[PiPDA]

...ok what type of pneumatic setup do you have? there is 4 parts to the 4way system.
1.Timing rod
2.Coupling
3.4way shaft
4. 4way shaft housing (the round thing)

The 4way shaft is held into the coupler by a set screw. On most cockers u find a threaded timing rod the coupler is on and held down by a second set screw. What did you tighten that was coming undone? Either way that shouldn't effect the valve...two seperate systems like how the power tube is seperate from the reg in a mag. The valve could be leaking from not enough presure, or to much like before meantioned. First check ur input preasure. If you have a stock cocker see if its at about 400-500 psi that should hold it down nicely...if ur cocker isn't stock then it gets tricky. your cup seal could be worn of course or just dirty...if the preasure is too high fun stuff happens also. If you cock it before u put air to it and it starts to leak as soon as air hits it then the hammer isn't holding the valve open. AND YES u need a tool to get the valve out..well get a nut out that is holding the valve in. There is the valve plug on the bottom side of the body. Its looks just like one on a spyder. then on the inside is the nut...there is no screwdrivers needed or anything...if you have to take ur valve out i suggest finding ur self a trained cocker tech. BUt first check ur preasure throught the inline. If u want more help from me tell me what kind of Inline reg u have and if u have a gauge what it reads...well just give me ur cockers complete specs at least what u know. thanks :)

[SGTKennedy]

meh. like i said. i havent had to play with my cocker yet. i bought it used and never touched it. the rt took the gold. oh well.
kennedy

[deded]

pipda> thanks for the extensive reply... and welcome to AO!

I think that the 3way is a kapp 3 way, an old one.

Its a stock right feed 99 cocker.
rat valve
ANS gen x2 reg with guage on it.

I don't know what the reg on the front is, but I might be able to find out.

The reg does not move at all when it is gassed up. The air just flows right through it--and doesn't seem to pressurize at all. It acts just like it wasn't cocked.

So you said this may be a hammer problem or something... could you elaborate on this a little, maybe tell me what I can do about it.

Thanks!:)

[deded]

Oh yeah, what I tightened was the front screw on the coupling, the one that attaches to the little rod with the two orings on it that goes into the 3 way.

[PiPDA]

so you have a guage on your front block? like in the bottom part? The Reg should tighten up when u gas it up. IF you have a guage in ur front block it will be reading ur input preasure from ur inline reg. Like i was saying the Valve and 4-way have no connection...but i have a theory with the three way too. you know how it leaks when u don't cock a cocker (:rolleyes:) before u put air to it? That is because the hammer is sitting and holding the valve stem and cupseal open...and u can't get enough air fast enough to seal it up, it can't build up preasure cause its rushing by the cup seal down the barrel..this isn't true with all cockers. depends on the spring set up. When it get suffecent preasure the cupseal seals against the valve stopping the horrible leak. If you can't get enough preasure (ie: ur reg is too low it won't ever seal). in short if u have too low a preasure to push the cup seal into valve and seal up it will leak even when the hammer is pulled back and not pressing the cup seal in. the easiest way to fix this is to turn the preassure in the inline up. It can also leak if the preasure is to high...this happens on a Low Preassure valve made to seal at super low preasure and not high. course we can't tell which one till u can tell me what ur inline preassure is. If the preassure seems right you could have a worn out cup seal, or some dirt..or a FAT PIECE OF TEFLON tape u shot straight to it. course its unlikly u got it through the Regulator. So figure out what ur Inline reg output preasure is for me so I can help.
On to the 4 way. the 4 way shaft should have a little indenture in it where the set screw in the coupling is supposed to go in. now with some of the KAPP shafts i notic they are not long enough to go all the way into the coupling so the hole lines up with the indenture so the screw sets in perfect. Does the three way have a set screw type nut in the front of it? But if the set screw in the coupling dosn't catch the shaft all sorts of bad mojo happens in the three way timing.

[deded]

pardon my newbieness... but which is the inline reg?

The guage is on the reg that is on the botom of the marker, not on the front block. Sorry about the wierdness of the picture, I have the fisheye on my digi.

http://www.krylos.com/cocker.jpg

[deded]

I tightened them both down... and nothing happened.

But I noticed something new.

When I turn the tank all of the way on, and the air blows out the barrel really fast, I hear a whistle from inside. Right about where the valve is.

So I'm pretty sure that it is an oring or cup seal problem. Hopefully I can take it to the shop tommorow, and get a new seal. It will probably cost more for them to do it for me, but should I have them do it? Or does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the valve out and in without screwing anything up. :confused:

[DeepFrz97]

Pipda knows what he is talking about. I taught him how to time when he first started, though he has come a long way since then. One other thing I might think it would be is the 3 way timing. You didn't say if the 3 way was leaking. If it is then I would believe that the timing rod is set a bit too short and the 3 way shaft isn't sitting properly when at rest.

Hey Danny boy, sounds like you are going to be tough competition for the title "Cocker King of Charleston" when I return. I will retain my crown! lol (Don't tell Clank I said that....lol

[deded]

The 3 way doesn't seem to be leaking at all.

But the air doesn't even really get to the 3 way I don't think. It just goes right out the barrel. :eek:

[DeepFrz97]

My first thought (without actually seeing the gun) since it is not leaking out of the 3 way is that the Cocking pressure is too low. If you have an aftermarket low pressure reg (the one in the front) you should be able to adjust it with an allen wrench in the front. If not then it gets more difficult since you have to remove the reg to adjust it.
You must remember that I have been away from my Cocker for a while and Pipda would be up to speed a bit more than I would at this point.
It sounds like something that a good tech should be able to troubleshoot in a matter of a couple of minutes if they had it in their hands. You must remember that it is much easier to troubleshoot in person than over the internet.

[deded]

yeah... thats what I figured.

I'll tell you guys what the tech says tommorow if I end up going.

:D

Thanks for all of the replys

Feel free to add anything if you think it would help me out at all.

[PiPDA]

I suggest taking it to a tech also. Your valve and cup seal may be hosed...either way your 4-way needs some adjustments its moving in unatural ways. a new cup seal shouldn't be more than a few dollars...assuming he has a cup seal that will work with your valve. Deep i traded my cocker a week or so ago for an RT. So im on the other end of the stick now...I want to get some play time in and not spend my day sitting around fixing cockers that some one ordered parts of the net installed em them selves and then realized they have no clue whats going on. So now i deny ever knowing anything about autocockers.

[DeepFrz97]

Pipda, I know how you feel. Luckily when I first got my Cocker I was the only one at the field with one, so by the time everyone else started buying them I was well versed on the issues that can arise by mistimed Cockers. You can remember how much time I had to spend working on everyone else's. I still like the one Jessie had that was down for a year because it was mistimed. I don't know why everyone thinks it takes some magic touch to time a Cocker. It just takes some patience and effort to learn how to do it properly. I bet you are having fun back there with everyone buying Cockers for the first time.
So, you bought an RT? How funny is that? I bought an Emag and Skeeter is building a Cocker. Talk about turning the world upside down. Are you planning on building another Cocker anytime soon? I think we are proving that mags and Cockers can live in harmony....Let's all sing around the campfire now....Kum by ya......

[SGTKennedy]

i wouldnt give up my rt for anything... except maybe an Emag. but i like to play with different toys every now and then.

[deded]

took it to the tech earlier tonight.

He's kinda backed up so its going to take him a while. But he's pretty sure its a major valve problem. i.e. cup seal totally screwed, valve totally screwed, or something keeping the valve from seeling.

I also bought a valve tool so next time I can make sure that its not something minor myself. (asuming that there is a next time)

Thanks for all of the help guys. Though it didn't lead to me fixing it myself, it did force me to learn a few things about it! :D

[deded]

The airsmith called...

he said that the internal threading was stripped... and that the problem could not be fixed by him. It has to be sent back to WGP.

He said the person that installed the valve had not installed it right, and that they did not put some piece in, because it wouldn't have threaded in right (because the threads were stripped)


This sucks for me... I'm out $300 unless I can get the guy who sold it to me to take it back, or unless wgp can fix it (hopefully for not too much)

Any suggestions on what I should do?

Has anyone had experience with WGP customer service... (I know they're not AGD, but hopefully they'll help me out)