To snatch grip or Not to snach grip . . . . [Archive]

CoolHand

07-08-2005, 08:35 PM

That is the question.

As the development of the Uber EFrame (as of yet unnamed) progresses, I come to a fork in the road, and feel compelled to seek the opinions of the target audience (IE the folks who are going to buy the thing).

Thusly, a question:

Which of these versions do you like best? They are equal in size, shape, and function, save for the obvious lack of a snatch grip on the second one.

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-SnatchGrip.jpg

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-NoSnatch2.jpg

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-NewSnatchGrip.jpg

Asked this same question over on PBN (since AO was down), but I'm only hearing from three or four people.

Since I can't get the price nailed down until I get the shape nailed down, I need to decide on this one pretty quickly.

OK? Now, go vote!

:ninja:

armyboot

07-08-2005, 08:49 PM

Gotta say I'm really digging the first one! (voted)

Maggot6

07-08-2005, 09:00 PM

I still stick to what I said on Pbnation...I think there should be a kind of rail / screw type thing where you could optionally put the snatch grip on.off.

CoolHand

07-08-2005, 09:07 PM

I still stick to what I said on Pbnation...I think there should be a kind of rail / screw type thing where you could optionally put the snatch grip on.off.

Yeah, but that would add a good bit of machine work, and thusly cost.

I don't want to do something that is going to add cost to an already highly expensive item.

Know what I mean Vern?

:cheers:

VFX_Fenix

07-08-2005, 10:02 PM

My PBN replies ----

I personally still don't understand the need for a snatchgrip on an Mag/Shocker/Timmy/Ion/Autococker/etc. but people seem to like them.

Aside from questionable usablity, from my point of view anyway, I have concerns about the snatch itself rubbing against my hand/glove durring normal play. Granted the field strip bolt already does this but I'd really like to avoid another possibly abrasive item on my Automag.

------

Possibly sily sudgestion, but I'll spit it out there anyway. I understan the artistic asthetic quality that the Snatch brings to the piece, having said that I believe that if you were to make the tail of the frame longer you could still achieve a similar asthetic with a less pronounced style of snatch at the end of the backstrap. Granted this will undoubtedly add material AND cost per unit as a result. Something that wouldn't sit flush with any rail, though if using an RT Pro rail or similar would have this random piece of metal projecting out horizontally while the rail angles up.

This would allow the grip to look like it has more flow to it without the abrupt end that the radius that the non-snatched model is trying to compensate for.

And I actually really like that last design since is removes my biggest complaint about the original snatch design with the worry that the tail of the grip would rub on my hand/glove. I'd buy it. :bounce:

BigEvil

07-09-2005, 11:02 AM

Its up to you Ryan.. whatever you produce will be a winner. As far as the snatch grips your going to have to decide. Cant please everyone.

logicmag19

07-09-2005, 12:00 PM

I like the first one the best. The third one is a cool new style but i prefer the look of the first one over it.

Mole1119

07-09-2005, 12:05 PM

I like 3

shartley

07-09-2005, 03:08 PM

CoolHand

07-09-2005, 04:21 PM

I say without. If going with a snatch grip it should either be an add-on part which would extend it to the back of the valve, or the grip frame itself should go to the back of the valve. But I said that before and there seems to be a cost issue as well as not wanting to look like another company’s product. So that leaves me to say “without”.

Well, I went back and did one that went all the way to the valve, but a fellow over on PBN ( :eek: ) pointed something out that I had not previously thought about: If the snatch grip goes all the way back, then there will be this funny looking gap between the top of the frame and the rail, IF you are using an EMag or Karta rail. The only way that would look right, is with a stock RTP rail.

Sooooooo, I think I'm going to go with the last one I posted (#3 here).

Its not really a snatch grip, but it is nicer looking than just squaring it off in the back.

Hopefully, I will have some numbers by the end of next week (I know I said that last week, but I totally forgot about the 4th of July and how it landed this year :tard: ).

At any rate, I think I've made up my mind.

Thanks for the input guys.

shartley

07-09-2005, 04:52 PM

Thanks for the update and info. That is interesting.... darn it. LOL

CoolHand

07-09-2005, 05:03 PM

Thanks for the update and info. That is interesting.... darn it. LOL

:rofl:

I liked the first one the best, personally, but after that guy said that, I drew up an EMag rail, and damned if it didn't look goofy as hell.

Its one of those things that makes you hit yourself in the forehead with the butt of your palm and go "Doah!" (and then make this face :tard: )

The guy on PBN said something to the effect of "No one that is going to buy this thing is going to have a stock rail. To make something that looks funny with any aftermarket rail is not smart." And I must say that I was inclined to agree.

I still can't believe that I over looked something that big . . . . . . . . . .

Oh well.

Onward and upward.

Creative Mayhem

07-09-2005, 08:38 PM

I say the first one, but I'd like to see one with grooves for fingers ;)

SpecialBlend2786

07-09-2005, 10:14 PM

I say the third one. The one thing that i've always hated about snatch grips is how they can dig into your wrist when you hold the gun...the third one eliminates this problem.

teufelhunden

07-09-2005, 10:24 PM

Looks wise, the 2nd one is best, IMO. However, functionally, I'd like to see a snatch grip, probably #3.

b&r automag

07-10-2005, 02:17 AM

CoolHand

07-10-2005, 03:01 AM

I bought a frame for my mag already, waiting on one for my shocker as well. If this is a electronic frame for a mag.....you have one buyer in the waiting. Honestly now, cost is very important. The cheapest one will problably do the best. All three are great but I think the price would ultimately determine which one would do the best. I personally like the 3rd one , but I'm pretty sure which ever one is made will be great.

I really don't see the shape of the back changing the price of the frame very much. The first one will take more aluminum than the last two, but with it only being like 0.125" longer or whatever, its not that big of a difference.

Now, if it had been another inch or two back there, that would have made a difference.

I just needed to get the shape set in stone so that I could get the drawing finished, and then get my quote done.

I should have a price by late next week.

Hold fast guys, its coming . . . . . .

:ninja:

usmc8892

07-10-2005, 01:38 PM

the one without the snatch grip.

danoxide

07-10-2005, 06:34 PM

i personally would like to see one with a grooved snatch simlier to the DM4 snatch

JoshK

07-10-2005, 08:04 PM

Coolhand...I think you should make a longer rail that takes the whole length of the valve, and have it have a snatch grip that sits flush with the back of the frame(and also could possibly fit on other frames). You could sell this an optional package with the e-frame, or seperatly for other frames. This would help satisfy everyone, and would solve the problem of the snatch grip look akward.

buzzboy

07-10-2005, 08:27 PM

I know this may sound noobish, because it is, but is the snatch the funky looking hook thing. And if so what perpose dose it serve.

indulgence

07-10-2005, 08:41 PM

I know this may sound noobish, because it is, but is the snatch the funky looking hook thing. And if so what perpose dose it serve.

the Hook thing is the snatch grip, if built, this one will be part of the whole trigger frame itself, and its for holding your gun at a more comforatable position. ie. wrapping your whole hand around the gun's body and the snatch grip on the trigger frame.

warpspyder

07-11-2005, 08:43 AM

I like the first one personally, but the third one could work too if that's what you decide.

CoolHand

07-11-2005, 03:39 PM

OK guys, I am going with the third one.

Its seems to offend fewer people, and looks a lot better than the one with the square back.

I should have a price and a preorder list up next week (if all goes as planned that is ;) ).

Thanks much for your input guys.

:headbang:

Carbon Blue

07-11-2005, 05:03 PM

will the trigger come with dual trigger stops? (top and side mount). Will the third frame be flush with the karta body and rail like the intelliframe?

DarkMag722

07-11-2005, 09:43 PM

When ever Logic is done making that trigger post info about it on AO. Cause Im sure a bunch of people will be buying them and will want to know info about it. I will at least. It looks nice. I want it. :cheers:

CKY_Alliance

07-11-2005, 10:01 PM

Just wondering if you decided on what board to put in it?sorry if this was in the last thread i lost track of it.

CoolHand

07-11-2005, 10:01 PM

Ok, I guess its as good a time as any to lay out a few preliminary specs.

Trigger specs:
Solid front stop (not adjustable)
Rear stop
Switch contact

Board:
Pred AFA 5.X (assuming Bob has them done . . . . )
All the various modes
Comes with the eye hardware (you do the install work for the eyes, soldering will be required)
9v operation

Frame:
82.5 Deg
DM5 grips
Kinda snatchgrip
same length as the Intelliframe in the back, much bigger trigger guard
integrated dovetail rail
positive sear stop

Compatibility:
Any RTP style rail
Any RT/XValve (classics may work too, but I want to test before I say for sure)
Any ULE type body (that means anything cut from a slug too)
No ULT needed, or wanted

Sorry, twist lockers are SOL, as are the classic rail guys. I'm very sorry that some of you will have to buy more than just the frame kit, but there just wasn't any way around it due to the way things had to be placed, and the way the frame operates.

That is all for now.

Next you hear about this should be the start of the preorder list, sometime next week.

CKY_Alliance

07-11-2005, 10:32 PM

MMM pred thats what i wanted to hear...ult required?

danm this or devil....we shall see.

warbeak2099

07-11-2005, 10:56 PM

No ULT required. Damn, I don't want to leave my Alpha rail. Noooooooooo!!!!

CoolHand

07-11-2005, 11:12 PM

MMM pred thats what i wanted to hear...ult required?

danm this or devil....we shall see.

Nope. In fact, you don't want to use it. Reduced recharge, AND the retro kickback is needed for the frame to function correctly.

This is why the Classic valve may not work either (though testing may show it to have enough reset force as well).

Don't worry you Alpha guys (Pay attention here warbeak ;) ), the sear is not the problem, the foregrip mount is.

Custom work will be available so you all don't have to ditch your beloved Alphas (though you will have to spend some money).

In reality, said custom work could also be done for regular classic rail users as well, but it will likely cost more than a new stock RTP rail and sear (this is just speculation, as I don't even know what exactly I'm going to do there yet, but I'll figure something out. :ninja: ).

Sorry guys, I just couldn't fit everything into the tiny form factor I had been using.

Carbon Blue

07-12-2005, 12:20 AM

CoolHand

07-12-2005, 01:04 AM

i must be stupid or something for missing something this big but this will be an electro frame?? :eek: and will this work with the 2005 karta body and rail? i know its the emag rail but it wasnt listed.

EMag rail = RTP rail (for all intents and purposes) and the Karta body is a slug derivative.

So yes, no problems there.

And yes, you did miss something big if you didn't realize this was an electro frame. :rofl:

warbeak2099

07-12-2005, 08:04 AM

The foregrip mount eh? Something to do with the lpr? I don't understand lol, but I am happy I can keep my uber light Alpha.

Carbon Blue

07-12-2005, 11:26 AM

thanks coolhand! I cant wait! hahahaha, im just glad i got my karta rail ULE'd so i have the adjustable foregrip slot. :headbang:

CoolHand

07-12-2005, 01:26 PM

The foregrip mount eh? Something to do with the lpr? I don't understand lol, but I am happy I can keep my uber light Alpha.

Well, long story short:

For balance and ease of walking the trigger, the whole frame has been pushed forward, and the guard has been widened up front to the tune of about 3/8 of an inch. This in turn puts the front of the trigger guard right over the classic foregrip mount hole. Soooooo, I'll have to build you a new mount for the VA, which moves the foregrip farther forward.

If you have an Alpha, I have already decided how I'm going to do it. It will be pretty slick, and shouldn't cost a horrible amount of money.

Stay tuned guys . . . . . .

CKY_Alliance

07-12-2005, 03:43 PM

well what about dallaras..its already a tight fit so will it work or not?

CoolHand

07-12-2005, 03:51 PM

well what about dallaras..its already a tight fit so will it work or not?

Dallaras use classic rails, so they won't work without the above mentioned custom VA mount.

Its doable, but it will be more expensive.

Now, a Dallara body on an RTP style rail will work just fine, without any modification.