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CoolHand
07-12-2005, 09:40 PM
OK guys, I've got my quotes done, and I have a price ready to go.

Drum roll . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $450 complete

Already got an LPR? Then its $425

Click Here to get one PreOrdered! (http://www.logicpaintball.com/cgi-bin/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LP&Product_Code=UEMFV10)

UPDATE (9-26-05):

Here's a dry firing video. I'll do a vid with paint as soon as I get the body cut for eyes.

Right click the link below and select "save target as".

Vidage! (http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-DryFireDivx.avi)

UPDATE AGAIN (10-10-05)

OK folks, drum roll please . . . . . .

Right Click the link and choose "Save Target As".

Short Video with Paint (http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-WithPaint.avi)

It sound graphed out at just a fuzz over 20bps. That's a stock HALO-B too, so I'm going to guess that its just not going to go faster than that (already using fresh batteries).

I'll see what I can do with the Cheetah HALO I've got kicking around here though.

One thing I did notice, is that you basically can't dry fire this thing. If you set the board timing to let you dry fire, its unnecessarily slow with the eyes on (since you also have a BIP delay when the eyes are on). If you set to to be fast with the eyes on (like in the video), it will chuff and short-stroke like a madman when you try to use it with them off, since the BIP delay is ignored when the eyes are off.

But, that's OK, you just have to shoot paint to show off. :rofl:

It is fast as hell, I will say that. :headbang:


Specs:

Predator Board AFA 5.0 (or newer)
Eye Components included (You build the harness and do the eye install)
Roller Bearing Trigger
Adjustable switch contact and post travel, fixed forward stop
Magnetic trigger return
DM5 Grips
Huge trigger guard
Integrated Dovetail Rail
Includes VA that is already tapped for the LPR
Complete kit comes with Jackhammer LPR (black)
Does not use the ULT (you need to use a stock RTP on/off)
Uses one 9V battery
Mounting hardware and allen keys included

Works with RTP, EMag, and Karta Rail, as well as any RTP type rail (like most of what Rogue sells).
Works with ULE body, Karta Body, and any body cut from a slug.

Will not work with twist lock bodies.

It can be made to work with classic rails, but custom work will be involved (IE its no longer just a bolt on thing).

Finished Design:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-NewSnatchGrip.jpg

First 15 preorders get to choose a custom color (for the frame, trigger, and VA) at no extra charge, and laser engraving of their choice on one side (I'll post up a template of the area so you can go to town), also at no extra charge.

Its going to be at least six to eight weeks to have finished products, likely longer if everythinhg doesn't go just right.

Everyone has to realize that this is going to be a long term deal. If you cannot wait for three or four months for your parts, do not sign up. I've said it here, and I will post it again on the site for the preorders.

I want everyone to know two things:

1) This is going to take a while. Probably longer than any of us think right now.
2) There will be no refunds for the preorders. This is going to be a high dollar project, one which I cannot float out of pocket for the time that this is going to take. You have to know this going in. Your money will be gone into the parts right after you place the order, so it cannot come back easily. For that reason, there will be no refunds on the preorder.

Click Here to get one PreOrdered! (http://www.logicpaintball.com/cgi-bin/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LP&Product_Code=UEMFV10)

I know the price is higher than I wanted it to be, but by doing them in such small runs, the price is a bit higher than it would have been.

EDIT (8-15-05): The first 25 frames are done being machined. The internal parts are due to be done this week. All I am waiting on are boards from TAG, and orders from you guys. They can't be anodized until they are ordered, so . . . . . . . . . . go get 'em ordered!

New Pics, of actual metal this time:

Driver Side:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-Side1.jpg

Lower Angle to show the Countersunk Rear Frame Screw:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-Underside1.jpg

Passenger Side:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-Otherside.jpg

Update (9-26-05):

Driver's Side Full View
http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEFDriverSideFull.jpg

Passenger's Side Full View
http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEFPassengerSideFull.jpg

Driver's Side Close View
http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEFDriverSideClose.jpg

Passenger's Side Close View (please disregard the ghetto-fabulous on/off switch, that obviously won't be there when my little PCB's are done)
http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEFPassengerSideClose.jpg

A-Tach-One
07-12-2005, 10:12 PM
For what you are offering here, this is a good price! Let us know how much this set up weighs when you get a chance. Thanks

Automaggot68
07-12-2005, 10:21 PM
Got The First One, Suckers.

CoolHand
07-12-2005, 10:47 PM
For what you are offering here, this is a good price! Let us know how much this set up weighs when you get a chance. Thanks

Looks like between 7 & 9 ozs fully loaded for the frame.

More if you add in the VA and LPR.

That big ol' frame is actually a whole ounce lighter than the vert frames bare.

Now THAT is ULE. :headbang:

It won't be real heavy, but since its got a 'noid and 9v in there, its going to be heavier than a mech mag.

I won't have a for sure weight of the whole kit until I get one put together.

UTDragun
07-12-2005, 10:58 PM
so why is the ult bad?

i mean, how can you use a powerful noid and 9v?= whats the battery life?

CoolHand
07-12-2005, 11:19 PM
so why is the ult bad?

i mean, how can you use a powerful noid and 9v?= whats the battery life?

Its not a electromechanical 'noid, its a solenoid valve. We are using air here folks.

Tiny 'noid = about four to five times the battery life over using a pancake.

We need the RT kick from the On/Off to reset the actuator.

dj89
07-12-2005, 11:38 PM
What kind of custom work are we talking for a MM rail? Man I love having a job, so I can get this kind of thing.

CoolHand
07-12-2005, 11:49 PM
What kind of custom work are we talking for a MM rail? Man I love having a job, so I can get this kind of thing.


You just need to make an extension to move the VA out farther.

The trigger guard is so big that it obstructs the original foregrip mount.

It shouldn't be too bad, there's four or five different ways to pull it off.

b&r automag
07-12-2005, 11:51 PM
Will gas thru foregrips work or will you now need a regulator?

dj89
07-12-2005, 11:53 PM
You just need to make an extension to move the VA out farther.

The trigger guard is so big that it obstructs the original foregrip mount.

It shouldn't be too bad, there's four or five different ways to pull it off.

How dose this frame sit on a rt rail ?
(How much room would be between the foregrip and frame?)
http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/6566/redandblackmags5rr.th.jpg (http://img308.imageshack.us/my.php?image=redandblackmags5rr.jpg)

Also, will the VA be a 15*?

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 12:32 AM
Will gas thru foregrips work or will you now need a regulator?

Gas thru is fine. The LPR mounts on the VA and sticks forward under the barrel.

You could use a reg there, I guess, but its kinda pointless (unless you want to '86 the reg on the valve, but that's another episode).

DJ - The VA is made just like the one that ships with the RT Customs. With it mounted to the stock hole in the RTP rail there is about 3/16" between the VA and the trigger guard. With the VA pushed out flush with the front of the rail, there is 5/8" between them. VA is vertical, not 15 deg. If you want a 15 deg, you can mod one yourself, its just one tapped hole different.

What was the point in posting that pic anyway?

dj89
07-13-2005, 12:40 AM
What was the point in posting that pic anyway?

I waned to know how close it would be to that forgrip.

sleepingbeauty
07-13-2005, 01:14 AM
Is the lpr used to regulate the pressure put on the sear to fire? If not why is it there and where is the hose running, through the frame?

sorry if there is a place that explains this but I am interested. If there is a link can I get it plz?

thanks-
Pat

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 01:15 AM
I waned to know how close it would be to that forgrip.

5/8 of an inch (0.625").

You'll need to mod that foregrip though, to accept the LPR for this deal to work.

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 01:54 AM
Is the lpr used to regulate the pressure put on the sear to fire? If not why is it there and where is the hose running, through the frame?

sorry if there is a place that explains this but I am interested. If there is a link can I get it plz?

thanks-
Pat

Yup, the LPR steps the 700+ psi input down to the ~50-75 psi that is used to actuate the sear.

The hosing runs into the front tip of the frame above where the trigger guard starts. The only hose exposed is the run from the LPR to there (about an inch of hosing).

There hasn't been much talk about the inner workings, as I wanted to keep them under wraps.

The LPR needs to be there and the hosing has been routed through the VA and frame so as to minimize its susceptibility to damage (and to make it show as little as possible).

b&r automag
07-13-2005, 01:59 AM
2nd order is in and only 13 more to go!!!

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 03:41 AM
Alright, we are off and running. All the parts have been started on. :headbang:

Look for raw parts to start showing up in four to six weeks.

Then add three to four for anodizing, and two more for assembly, and you get the "best case" ship date.

I am sure we will miss it though. :rolleyes: These things never seem to go like I plan them, but we can always hope (and do the banana dance :dance: ).

I will have the laser engraving stencil up in a few days. It will be an outline that you can just photoshop (or preferable Adobe Illustrator) into the design you want engraved on your frame. Its looking like two flats, one in the front and one behind the grips, about 1.5" long, and 0.5" tall (give or take, I just eyeballed it).

Also, just so there is no confusion, the no charge custom colors are for solid colors only, on the VA, Frame, and Trigger. Mix-n-match is OK, but I need you to spell it out when you order (or I will forget when it comes time to ano). When in doubt, I will try to confirm, but if all contact fails, you will get gloss black (this is just CYA, we've got at least a month to iron it all out).

Fades can be done too, but there will be a $25 extra charge, and you will need to supply a part with the fade you want matched already on it.

No guarantees with the color and fade matching, but they will do their best.

Now, go get 'em fellas!

BigEvil
07-13-2005, 08:29 AM
How come it wont work with a twist lock body? My hopes for a Classic RT with an egrip are quickly fading :(

WenULiVeUdiE
07-13-2005, 09:19 AM
The twistlock assembly sticks out under the rail.

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 09:19 AM
How come it wont work with a twist lock body? My hopes for a Classic RT with an egrip are quickly fading :(

Well, its not so much the body as the twist lock bushing thing itself.

There was only so much room in the frame, and I had to locate the On/Off toggle and the status LED someplace. The area just in front of the front frame screw beckoned to me, so that's where I put that stuff. However, by it being there, that leaves no room for the twist lock bushing thing to stick down into the frame.

I listed things as compatible/incompatible as to whether they would just bolt on and go or not. The twist lock won't.

I'm sure with a little custom work, and a keen eye for some alternative hardware, we could make it work. Its just not going to be a bolt-on thing.

In my world, everything is compatible with everything else, success just depends on how much time and money you want to devote to the effort. :ninja:

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 09:25 AM
The twistlock assembly sticks out under the rail.

Man, you beat me in at the buzzer. :rofl:

Announcer - "Its a dead heat. They're consulting the electron microscope . . . . . ."

Consult . . . . Consult . . . . .

Announcer - " . . . . . . And its WenULiVeUdiE, in a quantum finish!"

Me - "No Fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!"

/nerd

:cheers:

Carbon Blue
07-13-2005, 10:22 AM
Gas thru is fine. The LPR mounts on the VA and sticks forward under the barrel.


Does the VA that you are supplying resemble the stock one? So if i picture this correctly the front block will look like a spyder with a low pressure chamber correct? :confused:

and is this the LPR (just in black ) that will be supplied?
http://www.pbreview.com/pics/1112160468.jpg

If i wanted a highly polished finished item like that of Deadlywinds raw karta bodies would that be an option?

thanks coolhand

slimc
07-13-2005, 11:30 AM
#3 is mine! :shooting:

UTDragun
07-13-2005, 11:56 AM
how will the efficiency be compared to a normal mech, or dm?

BigEvil
07-13-2005, 01:12 PM
Well, its not so much the body as the twist lock bushing thing itself.

There was only so much room in the frame, and I had to locate the On/Off toggle and the status LED someplace. The area just in front of the front frame screw beckoned to me, so that's where I put that stuff. However, by it being there, that leaves no room for the twist lock bushing thing to stick down into the frame.

I listed things as compatible/incompatible as to whether they would just bolt on and go or not. The twist lock won't.

I'm sure with a little custom work, and a keen eye for some alternative hardware, we could make it work. Its just not going to be a bolt-on thing.

In my world, everything is compatible with everything else, success just depends on how much time and money you want to devote to the effort. :ninja:

I hear ya.

Its actually my brothers Classic RT. He is dying to get some kind of e-conversion for it. I dont know why he just doesnt buy a used emag. We have been talking about it in depth lately... I hadnt mentioned your frame unitl last weekend.. now I got him drooling too...

I will see exactly 'how interested $$' he is and drop you an email.

warbeak2099
07-13-2005, 01:45 PM
Does this come with a drilled/tapped VA for the lpr? I'm thinking instead of getting the mod done so I can keep the Alpha rail, just buy a cheap used RTP style rail and have Delta milling done to it.

Automaggot68
07-13-2005, 02:04 PM
Does this come with a drilled/tapped VA for the lpr? I'm thinking instead of getting the mod done so I can keep the Alpha rail, just buy a cheap used RTP style rail and have Delta milling done to it.

Yes it does.

WenULiVeUdiE
07-13-2005, 03:12 PM
Would you be able to Intellifeed this? I'm guessing no due to the board being used, but it doesn't hurt to ask for others who may be interested.

I've never wanted a ULE body more...

UTDragun
07-13-2005, 03:33 PM
unless they changed it, predator boards had intellifeed ports

how does the efficiency compare to a mechanical mag or devil mag?

WenULiVeUdiE
07-13-2005, 03:36 PM
unless they changed it, predator boards had intellifeed ports

I was not aware of that. Thanks.

Carbon Blue
07-13-2005, 04:30 PM
unless they changed it, predator boards had intellifeed ports

how does the efficiency compare to a mechanical mag or devil mag?

im pretty sure it would still be the same because the valve still needs to operate on a 700-800+ psi input pressure, but then again i didnt make this ungodly frame :hail:

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 08:18 PM
Does the VA that you are supplying resemble the stock one? So if i picture this correctly the front block will look like a spyder with a low pressure chamber correct? :confused:

and is this the LPR (just in black ) that will be supplied?
http://www.pbreview.com/pics/1112160468.jpg

If i wanted a highly polished finished item like that of Deadlywinds raw karta bodies would that be an option?

thanks coolhand

It is the same shape as the stock RTP VA, just with another port up front, and a thru hole to pass the hosing though.

And yes, that is the reg I am using. They are fairly priced, and work very well. If you want to use something else, buy the kit without an LPR and supply your own.

Gloss Silver will shine like the raw DW bodies, but won't tarnish over time like raw alum will.

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 08:22 PM
how will the efficiency be compared to a normal mech, or dm?

I'd say about five (5) shots less per tank compared to a mech or pancake electro.

The actuator system uses very little air, its not even enough to notice really.

the electrician
07-13-2005, 08:40 PM
I think I can say with confidence that these will be the sweetest little electro-mags around.small, fast and reliable, did I mention fast? :)

coolhand, it's great to see this getting underway.

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 09:10 PM
. . . . coolhand, it's great to see this getting underway.

Tell me about it. What's it been, a year now? Lots of time in this one, that is for sure.

I too am glad to see it progressing finally.

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 10:41 PM
I think I can say with confidence that these will be the sweetest little electro-mags around.small, fast and reliable, did I mention fast? :)

coolhand, it's great to see this getting underway.

BTW, did you see Rogue's post in PB Talk trying to encourage the DIY version of this frame? Seems someone has bee in their bonnet. ;)

Of course it was purely an inoccent question, asked simply for curiosity's sake, which I am taking in 100% the wrong way. It is mere coincidence and happenstance that it popped up just one day after I went public with the Ripper EM. :rolleyes: Its like reading a poorly written soap opera, you know what's going to happen, weeks before it does.

I especially like how they are trying to say that tuning an LPR (you know, twisting the knob) is WAY harder and more time consuming than tuning the ULT. :wow: Riiiiiiiiiiight. Just keep telling yourselves that fellas. :rofl:

Sometimes I tire of this sort of thing, but in the end, at least it shows I'm making an impact.

I do so love to torture certain folks though . . . . . . . . . . .

:spit_take

Automaggot68
07-13-2005, 10:48 PM
BTW, did you see Rogue's post in PB Talk trying to encourage the DIY version of this frame? Seems someone has bee in their bonnet. ;)

Of course it was purely an inoccent question, asked simply for curiosity's sake, which I am taking in 100% the wrong way. It is mere coincidence and happenstance that it popped up just one day after I went public with the Ripper EM. :rolleyes: Its like reading a poorly written soap opera, you know what's going to happen, weeks before it does.

I especially like how they are trying to say that tuning an LPR (you know, twisting the knob) is WAY harder and more time consuming than tuning the ULT. :wow: Riiiiiiiiiiight. Just keep telling yourselves that fellas. :rofl:

Sometimes I tire of this sort of thing, but in the end, at least it shows I'm making an impact.

I do so love to torture certain folks though . . . . . . . . . . .

:spit_take

You suck, Ryan, Remember that.

No one will buy your frame, like you, eat cake with you, or go to your birthday party.


:ninja: :D :ninja:

Skywalker
07-13-2005, 10:49 PM
Why do you and Rogue always fight? Is it b/c you guys have your businesses and your always competing or did something happen that no one knows about?

Not trying to be nosey, just curious.

Automaggot68
07-13-2005, 10:57 PM
Why do you and Rogue always fight? Is it b/c you guys have your businesses and your always competing or did something happen that no one knows about?

Not trying to be nosey, just curious.

it's a little more than that.
Half the time it isn't even Rogue and Logic, It's Rogue's fan's, or Logic's fans.

Even MORE than half the time, the fans who bash the other user's products have never even owned a Rogue, or Logic product.

I like The Logic vert frame more than Rogue's. Does that make Rogue's frame bad? Not at all! I just prefer Logic's.

Earlier today a new AO user posted that Logic makes a sub quality mag. I'm very confident that user has never used a Logic product ever.

I've used Rogue stuff, and i like it, but I prefer Logic's more.

CoolHand
07-13-2005, 11:05 PM
You suck, Ryan, Remember that.

No one will buy your frame, like you, eat cake with you, or go to your birthday party.


:ninja: :D :ninja:

LMAO

I can finally sleep easily . . . . . . . . . you know, now that I know why no one likes me.

:cheers:

Automaggot68
07-13-2005, 11:12 PM
LMAO

I can finally sleep easily . . . . . . . . . you know, now that I know why no one likes me.

:cheers:





haha, no worries.


/official west coast representitive.

SpecialBlend2786
07-13-2005, 11:57 PM
derek convinced me with his superior marketing skills and wit.

#2 is mine. order is in...

oh, and just incase, is it possible to get the frame black but just the trigger gold? I dont know if that was put in my order or not. thanks

Duzzy
07-14-2005, 12:49 AM
So I sell my Mag so that I can support your business and this is what you do to me... Anyways, I haven't looked at it enough to understand the workings, I will do that later, but the pre-lim stuff looks pretty cool. Nice work.

CoolHand
07-14-2005, 01:14 AM
So I sell my Mag so that I can support your business and this is what you do to me... Anyways, I haven't looked at it enough to understand the workings, I will do that later, but the pre-lim stuff looks pretty cool. Nice work.

Aw, I didn't know you sold your mag to do the Excal (which is going to mow when its done BTW), that's kinda sad.

Oh well.

I've been looking around lately, and if you don't mind settling for an older EMag or RTP valve instead of an XValve, they can be had for under $200 (sometimes in a whole marker).

Couple that with this frame, and you get one hell of a marker for the money.

warbeak2099
07-14-2005, 08:10 AM
Yea Ryan I did see that thread and actually posted in it trying to... well I don't know what I thought I was going to accomplish. It was basically Rogue trying to say that a pancake noid tripper is much more reliable than a ram tripper. Hin hint, don't buy Logic's Ripper EM! Buy a Dmag from me when I get the rights from GADevil instead!

EDIT: Nm, looks as though he doesn't have the devilmag bar in the menu on his site anymore. Guess he was just trying to get people to not buy this even if it doesn't mean him getting money. You know it really is like a cheap soap opera.

Carbon Blue
07-14-2005, 11:31 AM
another :cheers: to coolhand for creating a very important milestone in mag history. :headbang:

luke
07-14-2005, 12:37 PM
Woo-Hoo, glad to see this project finally launched. :clap:


My hunch says it will be well received. :cool:

If I only had a good reason to build another Mag, yes this frame should be reason enough but I already have 3... :spit_take

CoolHand
07-14-2005, 01:48 PM
. . . . If I only had a good reason to build another Mag, yes this frame should be reason enough but I already have 3... :spit_take


You can just add it on to your favorite of the three.

(I know, I'm not helping . . . . . . ;) )

chairman_mao
07-14-2005, 02:07 PM
Out of curiosity, why will this not work with a SS body? The rail explaination made sense but I'm confused on the body.

luke
07-14-2005, 02:16 PM
(I know, I'm not helping . . . . . . ;)


No sir your not! :)

WenULiVeUdiE
07-14-2005, 02:52 PM
Out of curiosity, why will this not work with a SS body? The rail explaination made sense but I'm confused on the body.

It's not the body. It the twistlock assembly that sticks out from under the rail.

CoolHand
07-14-2005, 06:26 PM
It's not the body. It the twistlock assembly that sticks out from under the rail.

Exactly.

You can use a SS body . . . . . . . . . you just can't use a twist lock bushing to secure your barrel. ;)

I'm sure there is some way to make it work, but it will have to be a custom solution. Its not something that we can swap out in 2 mins. Now, if there is enough demand, I will see what I can come up with to shorten up the twistlock or replace it (so that you can just swap something out).

Duzzy
07-14-2005, 11:34 PM
I still can't get used to the idea of markers "mowing"... It doesn't sit right, but I am sure you are correct in any case.

I could buy a used mag and upgrade the heck out of it, but I picked up a poor unwanted and blind Viking that is just screaming for "Dr. Ryan" to come save it. I can't swing the $405 just yet, but I am working on it. And any discounts won't be held against you either...

Thanks.

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 01:22 AM
I still can't get used to the idea of markers "mowing"....

:rofl:

Well, in that case:

"It will shoot really fast, whether you can pull the trigger that fast or not."

That's the real life definition of "Mows" as it is used in Paintball. ;)

BigEvil
07-15-2005, 06:33 AM
Exactly.

You can use a SS body . . . . . . . . . you just can't use a twist lock bushing to secure your barrel. ;)

I'm sure there is some way to make it work, but it will have to be a custom solution. Its not something that we can swap out in 2 mins. Now, if there is enough demand, I will see what I can come up with to shorten up the twistlock or replace it (so that you can just swap something out).


Would it work with Doc's cocker barrel adaptor?

gothsqwd
07-15-2005, 11:36 AM
I would like to see a pic of the prototype, just to get a rough idea what I would be getting. Not that I don't trust you Coolhand, but I am a visual sort of guy. I am very interested though.

dj89
07-15-2005, 12:09 PM
Would it work with Doc's cocker barrel adaptor?

It would if you found some way to keep it in place.

MadPSIence
07-15-2005, 01:03 PM
question, before I pre-order.

If I pre-order, would you also build a complete gun for me and send it with the frame when the time comes? Meaning, body drilled already (even if you have to send it out), harness made, eyes attached and working etc...

Basically I'd like to get a complete gun. I don't have the resources to build any harnesses or the extra money to be mailing a frameback and forth between countries to get drilling done etc..

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 01:39 PM
question, before I pre-order.

If I pre-order, would you also build a complete gun for me and send it with the frame when the time comes? Meaning, body drilled already (even if you have to send it out), harness made, eyes attached and working etc...

Basically I'd like to get a complete gun. I don't have the resources to build any harnesses or the extra money to be mailing a frameback and forth between countries to get drilling done etc..

Hmmmm . . . . . . . . .

Let me mull that over a little bit.

The only thing stopping me is the lack of decent eye covers for the Mag. If I could lick that, then the other stuff would be easier to deal with.

Let me ponder on it and get back to you (its not like we don't have a good bit of time to think about it).

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 01:42 PM
I would like to see a pic of the prototype, just to get a rough idea what I would be getting. Not that I don't trust you Coolhand, but I am a visual sort of guy. I am very interested though.

Yeah, I can get one of the original vert concept. Its not functional right now (I stole the board out of it for another project), but you can get the idea of how it works.

I don't have a hybrid frame in aluminum yet, but that's just the outside shape. I can post a CAD solid if that would help.

Give me a day or two to find the proto back, and get some pics taken.

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 01:43 PM
Would it work with Doc's cocker barrel adaptor?

Yeah, but we'll have to mod it a bit to stay in place without a twistlock. I'd bet we could do that with a well placed set screw though.

gothsqwd
07-15-2005, 01:49 PM
Yeah, I can get one of the original vert concept. Its not functional right now (I stole the board out of it for another project), but you can get the idea of how it works.

I don't have a hybrid frame in aluminum yet, but that's just the outside shape. I can post a CAD solid if that would help.

Give me a day or two to find the proto back, and get some pics taken.

Sounds good to me. Mostly llooking to see how the lpr sits and things like that.

MadPSIence
07-15-2005, 02:17 PM
Hmmmm . . . . . . . . .

Let me mull that over a little bit.

The only thing stopping me is the lack of decent eye covers for the Mag. If I could lick that, then the other stuff would be easier to deal with.

Let me ponder on it and get back to you (its not like we don't have a good bit of time to think about it).

even if you have to use the usual eclipse covers or what not.

do you have an estimated time period for delivery after the pre-order fills? I'd like to be in action by october but don't mind waiting.

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 02:28 PM
even if you have to use the usual eclipse covers or what not.

do you have an estimated time period for delivery after the pre-order fills? I'd like to be in action by october but don't mind waiting.

The machine work has already started, so I'd say 12-14 weeks to start shipping the preorders.

If more than 25 sell, there will be another 6-8 week lag for more frames to be cut and anodized.

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 02:30 PM
Sounds good to me. Mostly llooking to see how the lpr sits and things like that.

Now that, I don't have a prototype of. I just tapped another hole into an existing AGD VA. The LPR just sticks out under the barrel like an Impulse with an LPR.

Conversekidz
07-15-2005, 05:03 PM
Will this frame be more or less reliable when compared to a devil mag frame?

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 05:38 PM
Will this frame be more or less reliable when compared to a devil mag frame?

Well, this is question loaded with danger.

If I say yes, then I'm bagging on GADevil's product.

If I say no, then I'm shooting myself in the foot.

I'll put it like this:

The LPR is a set it and forget it kind of deal. It will come preset from me, and should never have to be fiddled with. The solenoid valve is rated for upwards of 200 million cycles (200,000,000+ cycles), and the board is made by TAG/KM2 arguably the makers of the most reliable boards in the world.

So here is the bottom line: These frames will be rock solid. I can't draw a comparison with the DM, but I can tell you that the parts I have used are very reliable, and they are being used in the manner which they were designed to be used (IE, I'm using them for what they are meant for). That all goes a very long way to making these frames basically bullet proof.

I will say you will have about 50 times more trouble with the LVL X than you will ever have with these frames (provided, of course, that you don't take them apart and fiddle with everything all the time).

That's about all I can say on that, I think.

WenULiVeUdiE
07-15-2005, 07:52 PM
provided, of course, that you don't take them apart and fiddle with everything all the time

But that takes all the fun out of it. :( :p

If it could work with one of Doc's adaptors via a set screw, what would be the estimated installation cost?

Skywalker
07-15-2005, 07:57 PM
http://devilsden.tv/DM-pics.htm

If I ordered one I would want you to do the eye work for me as well. Take a look at the compound eyes from GA Devil's website. These look better and are more reliable than the eye covers made for mags. Let me know if you can do it.

armyboot
07-15-2005, 08:35 PM
The machine work has already started, so I'd say 12-14 weeks to start shipping the preorders.

If more than 25 sell, there will be another 6-8 week lag for more frames to be cut and anodized.

Sorry if I missed this info, but I have a question. I know you said 12-14 weeks (if everything goes perfectly) for the pre-orders, but any idea when we will get to see the prototype in action?

*crosses fingers his cocker sells so he can get one.*

I haven't played with a mag in a long time, this would definately replace my proto.

MadPSIence
07-15-2005, 09:18 PM
The machine work has already started, so I'd say 12-14 weeks to start shipping the preorders.

If more than 25 sell, there will be another 6-8 week lag for more frames to be cut and anodized.

well i say promise the 15 batch quick. people don't wanna pay early then get sucker punched another 6-8 weeks for the late buyers. Let the late ones wait..

anyways, do you have a number I could give you a shout at. I'm interested but need to iron some stuff out and communication via internet is slower than a cocker.

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 09:51 PM
well i say promise the 15 batch quick. people don't wanna pay early then get sucker punched another 6-8 weeks for the late buyers. Let the late ones wait..

anyways, do you have a number I could give you a shout at. I'm interested but need to iron some stuff out and communication via internet is slower than a cocker.

Well yes, that should go without saying.

I meant, that any orders after 25 will have to wait while more frames are cut, not that everyone would have to wait.

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 09:59 PM
http://devilsden.tv/DM-pics.htm

If I ordered one I would want you to do the eye work for me as well. Take a look at the compound eyes from GA Devil's website. These look better and are more reliable than the eye covers made for mags. Let me know if you can do it.

I am in the process of working up some aluminum covers, that are a little less agricultural looking than the compound. If worse comes to worse, I will go with the epoxy, but I really don't like it.

Its looking like there is no way for me to get around doing eye installs . . . . . . .

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 10:07 PM
Sorry if I missed this info, but I have a question. I know you said 12-14 weeks (if everything goes perfectly) for the pre-orders, but any idea when we will get to see the prototype in action?

*crosses fingers his cocker sells so he can get one.*

I haven't played with a mag in a long time, this would definately replace my proto.

Well, the proof of concept marker was built, tested, and torn down about seven months ago.

I can take some pics of the system in a vert frame (the test mule), but I'm afraid that you are going to have to hang on until I get some of the new parts in. There will be a month at least to make videos and such once the parts are machined, while everyone else's stuff is at ano.

So, I'd say videos and such in about six weeks.

Best I can do.

CoolHand
07-15-2005, 10:08 PM
But that takes all the fun out of it. :( :p

If it could work with one of Doc's adaptors via a set screw, what would be the estimated installation cost?

For just that mod?

Maybe $25-$30 (if its that simple).

armyboot
07-15-2005, 11:32 PM
Well, the proof of concept marker was built, tested, and torn down about seven months ago.

I can take some pics of the system in a vert frame (the test mule), but I'm afraid that you are going to have to hang on until I get some of the new parts in. There will be a month at least to make videos and such once the parts are machined, while everyone else's stuff is at ano.

So, I'd say videos and such in about six weeks.

Best I can do.

Sounds good to me! Can't wait to see what this awesome mod will do.

I think I'm gonna have to lower the price on my cocker... I really want a mag again :)

RFLMN1
07-16-2005, 02:23 AM
Where does the LPR hose get routed into the frame?

Jason

CoolHand
07-16-2005, 02:33 AM
Where does the LPR hose get routed into the frame?

Jason

From page one:


The hosing runs into the front tip of the frame above where the trigger guard starts. The only hose exposed is the run from the LPR to there (about an inch of hosing).

There ya go.

RFLMN1
07-16-2005, 02:50 AM
Thanks, Ill pay better attention next time. Now I just need to sell some things to get one.

Jason

CoolHand
07-16-2005, 03:17 AM
Thanks, Ill pay better attention next time. Now I just need to sell some things to get one.

Jason


No worries, I was just too lazy to retype it. :D

stonersr26
07-16-2005, 11:37 PM
I just wanted to know who you would recomend to have the milling for the eyes done by. I have a Karta Emag and as soon as I can put the money together I will be ordering one of these bad boys. Thanks :shooting: .

MadPSIence
07-17-2005, 12:51 AM
I just wanted to know who you would recomend to have the milling for the eyes done by. I have a Karta Emag and as soon as I can put the money together I will be ordering one of these bad boys. Thanks :shooting: .

TAG, or Destructive Customs I believe could do it.

CoolHand
07-17-2005, 12:58 AM
TAG, or Destructive Customs I believe could do it.

Yup.

DC, JMJ, TAG, or any number of other airsmiths can do it.

The question is whether they want to do it or not.

IIRC Chris (GADevil) does the Mag stuff at TAG, and he is obviously buried. I don't know if they take any more or not.

DC could certainly do it (they are quite capable machinists), but once again, I don't know if they have done any Mags in the past, or if they want to do any now. They do a lot of machine work on Vikings and the like, which I imagine is much more profitable (and less labor intensive) than this sort of thing.

Like I said before, let me check around and see what houses I can line up.

When I get a list populated, I will post it here.

stonersr26
07-17-2005, 09:16 AM
Thanks, that will be very helpfull :)

MadPSIence
07-17-2005, 01:44 PM
DC is familiar with AGD stuff.. they should be able to get r' done. just give them a shout, toss an email. They are great for replying fast.

ryan have you figured out if you can get a full gun together yet? for the body i'd probably have you send it out to DC first, then back to yourself for assembly.. then send it to me. rather than myself having to send 2 international packagages, and receive 2. that's retarded money.

magmonkey
07-17-2005, 01:59 PM
little known fact we started with AGD (and never really left)


:)


we are the only AGD dealer left in new england that I know of

MadPSIence
07-17-2005, 03:10 PM
little known fact we started with AGD (and never really left)


:)


we are the only AGD dealer left in new england that I know of

right from the horses mouth. hey are you guys getting your excalibur milling patterns out soon? I'm gettin ready to just sell mine and go mag.

CoolHand
07-17-2005, 06:10 PM
little known fact we started with AGD (and never really left)


:)


we are the only AGD dealer left in new england that I know of

That's good to hear.

I just talked with Luke as well, so the list is growing.

And I don't have a problem doing the assembly, I'm just not going to be able to do all the installs and the machine work, and new design, and shipping, and . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

MadPSIence
07-17-2005, 06:18 PM
That's good to hear.

I just talked with Luke as well, so the list is growing.

And I don't have a problem doing the assembly, I'm just not going to be able to do all the installs and the machine work, and new design, and shipping, and . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

all I'd ask is you put the frame onto a body/rail, stick detents and a feedneck on it and send it to me ready to gas and fire..

i may just use a level X instead of eyes.

does that sound do-able?

CoolHand
07-17-2005, 06:25 PM
all I'd ask is you put the frame onto a body/rail, stick detents and a feedneck on it and send it to me ready to gas and fire..

i may just use a level X instead of eyes.

does that sound do-able?

Well yeah, I can sell you a whole marker, or assemble one from parts you send, that is certainly doable (eyes or not).

The only thing that would stop us is AGD being out of what you want, but with 6- 12 weeks before the parts are all done, I'm sure we can get it all found in time though.

MadPSIence
07-17-2005, 06:31 PM
Well yeah, I can sell you a whole marker, or assemble one from parts you send, that is certainly doable (eyes or not).

The only thing that would stop us is AGD being out of what you want, but with 6- 12 weeks before the parts are all done, I'm sure we can get it all found in time though.

AGD wouldn't be supplying anything beyond the internals. Body would be DW and feedneck would be RPG Sub-Zero

Can this frame work with a Dallara combo? I REALLY don't like the price of Karta's

CoolHand
07-17-2005, 06:50 PM
AGD wouldn't be supplying anything beyond the internals. Body would be DW and feedneck would be RPG Sub-Zero

Can this frame work with a Dallara combo? I REALLY don't like the price of Karta's

Not without some custom work.

Dallara = Classic Rail = Needs custom work to mount va = not a bolt-on mod anymore.

But if I am doing the assembly, its not a big deal (just more work and more $$).

Its likely to come out the same $$ wise with either body/rail combo.

MadPSIence
07-17-2005, 07:24 PM
eh, best stick with karta then.

anyways, I'll get back to you when my damn excal sells. hopefully there will be room on the first batch still

CoolHand
07-18-2005, 11:05 PM
Come on folks, lets see those preorders.

75 people say they will buy one in the poll, and we can't even muster 5 follow throughs?

I know you are out there.

Stop being so :ninja: about it and buy one!

:rofl:

DaveSM
07-19-2005, 11:24 PM
I would but I already have a devilmag on the way and I keep my actual mag mechanical until PTP release their Pneumatic frame or that I have access to tools to make my own frame. I just designed a pneumatic valve that would have theoricaly a really short and light travel (not a spool valve because it would have made a valve with a longer travel). I inspired myself of poppet valves but it's still quite different. I would qualify it as a dual poppet valve. The main drawback that my design will suffer is that it will be really sensitive to pressure changes (both drops and raises) that would prevent it from working properly...

Anyway, good luck with your frame. I'm sure it will be a great frame and I would have brought it but my economical situation don't allow me to own 3 mags...

MadPSIence
07-20-2005, 09:36 PM
don't worry ryan.. I'll buy one as soon as this damn excal is gone or I have some extra cash. I give you my word I will buy one pending availability remains.

Chronobreak
07-21-2005, 03:50 PM
im still thinking about it HARD

its alot of $ to invest for a long period with no proto out yet and balh blah blah

i think it would be better for everyone if no one preorderd til they were 100% they wanted one ;)

also looks liek some deatials are still a litle sketchy so ide like to see those ironed out first and i have to check some compatibility things ;)

btw this is going to have a safety right? :p :ninja:

:cheers:

Automaggot68
07-21-2005, 04:24 PM
im still thinking about it HARD

its alot of $ to invest for a long period with no proto out yet and balh blah blah

i think it would be better for everyone if no one preorderd til they were 100% they wanted one ;)

also looks liek some deatials are still a litle sketchy so ide like to see those ironed out first and i have to check some compatibility things ;)

btw this is going to have a safety right? :p :ninja:

:cheers:


It'll have the same safety that any electro (save for Emag/hyperframe) has. The OFF SWITCH.

As for compatibility. You have a karta Rail, which is on the RT PRO platform.

BTW, What's sketchy?

CoolHand
07-21-2005, 05:03 PM
im still thinking about it HARD

its alot of $ to invest for a long period with no proto out yet and balh blah blah

i think it would be better for everyone if no one preorderd til they were 100% they wanted one ;)

also looks liek some deatials are still a litle sketchy so ide like to see those ironed out first and i have to check some compatibility things ;)

btw this is going to have a safety right? :p :ninja:

:cheers:

I've already spelled out the compatiblity quite well. Any RTP type rail. Any ULE type body. Any RT Type valve.

THAT is what it was designed for use with. It may work with other parts as well, but as with anything that is outside the design envelope, its not guaranteed to work.

The On/Off switch is the safety, just like any Electro, there is no secondary safety, you don't need one.

There is no denying that this is not the perfect setup. However, if you want something like this to be produced (and every diehard magger does), then you might have to deal with a less than optimum situation to get one.

You know I am not going to run off with your money, and since the parts are already on their way, its not like this project will never get started ('cause it's already started ;) ).

The prototype has been done and tested for months. In fact, its been setting so long that most of the parts have been robbed for use elsewhere. That's how long this has been going on. Its been on the back burner because I couldn't afford to do it by myself (there was so little profit that I couldn't justify it). So, now we get to the present, and maggers still want a reliable and cost effective EFrame. Its still not very profitable, but if I don't have to go out of pocket on the whole deal it gets easier to bear. So the preorder is born.

The more static you guys cook up, the longer this is going to take.

It will be better for everyone if you guys would read the information given, look at the outlines given, and get onboard if you want one. Bet hedging will just stall things out.

I am not a hype seller. I have outlined how it will work, what it will work with, and what it will do. That's what it will do. If you have seen a DM4 shoot at 20 bps, you have seen a Mag do it. From the outside these frames look just like any other frame, no bells, whistles, funky exposed linkages, or hoses running in every direction. What you have seen is what you will get.

UTDragun
07-23-2005, 03:31 PM
will the frame be added as an extra cost option on your rt custom page on your website?

CoolHand
07-23-2005, 04:16 PM
will the frame be added as an extra cost option on your rt custom page on your website?

I imagine that it will be, but not until I have some in stock.

If you want to preorder a whole marker, let me know and I will take care of your order manually.

MadPSIence
07-23-2005, 04:31 PM
ryan, i'll be placing my pre-order within the next 2 weeks. please hold a spot on the first 15 if you can.

thanks

danoxide
07-24-2005, 04:18 PM
so how many of these have been pre-ordered? if its still under 15 im more likly to pre-order one rather then wait for them to come out.

CoolHand
07-24-2005, 05:07 PM
so how many of these have been pre-ordered? if its still under 15 im more likly to pre-order one rather then wait for them to come out.

/checks paperwork real quick.

Three (3).

That's it, just three.

So yeah, its still under fifteen.

CoolHand
07-25-2005, 11:21 PM
Bumpus Maximus!

:headbang:

stonersr26
07-25-2005, 11:50 PM
CoolHand you just need to convince someone to either buy my Mustang or my Emag lowers and I will have #4. :D Someone help me out. Help me get an awesome product and further the legacy of mags ripping away the opposition; Please.

stonersr26
07-26-2005, 12:25 AM
Just had a question that I haven't seen anywhere else on the thread. The air noid that you are using to trip the sear, is it capable of handling more than what the current noid in an Emag will. I have heard from several different techs that the reason they haven't really gone any farther with the programming for the E/X mag boards is because the Solenoid cannot shoot much past 20bps. Just curious because if you were to use the Pred to it's full capacity I think you would very likely be pushing the envelope of the valve's capabilities and thus the Solenoid would need to be fairly fast. Thanks in advance for answering my ramblings.

CoolHand
07-26-2005, 12:49 AM
Just had a question that I haven't seen anywhere else on the thread. The air noid that you are using to trip the sear, is it capable of handling more than what the current noid in an Emag will. I have heard from several different techs that the reason they haven't really gone any farther with the programming for the E/X mag boards is because the Solenoid cannot shoot much past 20bps. Just curious because if you were to use the Pred to it's full capacity I think you would very likely be pushing the envelope of the valve's capabilities and thus the Solenoid would need to be fairly fast. Thanks in advance for answering my ramblings.

[Valley Girl Voice]
"I am so ahead of you here." :rofl:
[/Valley Girl Voice]

The valve I am using has a factory rated max cyclical rate of >50CPS.

That's right, fifty (50, five with a zero behind it). You will not out run this valve.

However, I guess that's kinda misleading, as the "ON" time required for the Mag will limit the the max ROF to ~36-40 BPS (using a 20-25ms "on" time per shot, and a 3-5ms "off" time).

They are rated for a life of 200 million cycles (that's 200,000,000 shots, or 200,000 cases of paint) at 100% duty (meaning it can run continuously basically forever).

Plus, they are less than $40 to replace (if for some reason you manage to shoot more than 200 million shots and your Mag is still going), even at retail prices.

Worry not about the valve my son. :ninja:

BigEvil
07-26-2005, 08:38 AM
IMO, if you get a vid of you ripping on the prototype, they will come. :)

Skywalker
07-26-2005, 12:09 PM
IMO, if you get a vid of you ripping on the prototype, they will come. :)


I second that motion. Let's see it Ry.

CoolHand
07-26-2005, 01:13 PM
IMO, if you get a vid of you ripping on the prototype, they will come. :)

I will be more than happy to, once I have parts here to assemble.

The prototype was in a vert frame, and is no longer in working order. To reassemble it and take a vid would only confuse things.

As soon as I have parts to put together, I will assemble one and take a vid of it screaming.

On a related note, I found some material that I may be able to easily fashion into an eye cover for the ULE bodies. It will be very simple and aluminum (so you can have it ano matched if you like), likely held on with one screw.

I am waiting on the material right now, but once it gets here (Wed or Thurs) I will cut one and see what it looks like.

Also, would any of you happen to have a stock RTP On/Off assembly they would sell or maybe trade for a ULT kit?

The XValve I bought for the demo doesn't have an On/Off in it, and all I have is a ULT and an EMag On/Off.

WenULiVeUdiE
07-26-2005, 01:25 PM
I can probably trade with you. As long as you have the extra shims I could probably do it. Only problem is I am in New Orleans until thursday. Let me know.

CoolHand
07-26-2005, 02:02 PM
I can probably trade with you. As long as you have the extra shims I could probably do it. Only problem is I am in New Orleans until thursday. Let me know.

I don't need it right away anyway.

It is the whole kit, ULT On/Off and about 8 or 10 shims.

Let me know when you get back so we can hash it out.

Automaggot68
07-26-2005, 02:07 PM
I don't need it right away anyway.

It is the whole kit, ULT On/Off and about 8 or 10 shims.

Let me know when you get back so we can hash it out.


Check you PM's buddy.

Skywalker
07-30-2005, 04:36 PM
Any news on a protoype yet?

CoolHand
07-30-2005, 05:02 PM
Any news on a protoype yet?

Nothing new to report.

You can be sure that I will have pics and a vid up as soon as parts arrive and I get one put together.

Hang in there guys, it could be as much as three or four weeks yet.

MadPSIence
08-04-2005, 07:39 PM
3-4 weeks for a prototype or a ship?

i'm just thinking now.. is this gonna be out before the pneumatic frame?

CoolHand
08-04-2005, 08:14 PM
3-4 weeks for a prototype or a ship?

i'm just thinking now.. is this gonna be out before the pneumatic frame?

2-3 for videos of the production frames.

4-8 to ship (best case).

It will certainly be out before the PTP frame (since Jay has been talking 3-6 months on them).

MadPSIence
08-04-2005, 08:30 PM
k, i'll be pm'ing you. (since you don't use your AIM grrr :p )

MadPSIence
08-04-2005, 08:31 PM
question.. what kind of trigger will this thing have? hopefully nothing thick and clunky like stock mag frames.

will the trigger receive anno as well?

CoolHand
08-04-2005, 10:03 PM
question.. what kind of trigger will this thing have? hopefully nothing thick and clunky like stock mag frames.

will the trigger receive anno as well?

Look at the pic in the first post. That's the trigger it will use. Its a bearing mounted and slightly thinner version of a FireBlade.

Triggers will be anodized to match the frame, unless I hear different from the customer.

They are bearing mounted, so they should have minimal slop, but still be smooth as silk.

:headbang:

Automaggot68
08-04-2005, 10:07 PM
Look at the pic in the first post. That's the trigger it will use. Its a bearing mounted and slightly thinner version of a FireBlade.

Triggers will be anodized to match the frame, unless I hear different from the customer.

They are bearing mounted, so they should have minimal slop, but still be smooth as silk.

:headbang:


WHAT DO THE INSIDES LOOK LIKE.

MadPSIence
08-04-2005, 10:08 PM
well. I'm on the list. I can't wait. You've got a kickass product coming.

VFX_Fenix
08-05-2005, 09:37 PM
WHAT DO THE INSIDES LOOK LIKE.

Trade Secret :ninja: Don't Ask :nono:

CoolHand
08-06-2005, 12:15 AM
Its not a secret per se, I just don't have any to take pics of at the moment.

I will post a pic from the prototype/proof of concept (enjoy it, this is the only pic that got taken of any of the parts).

Here is the actuator assembly:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/Actuator.jpg

For size reference, that aluminum cube is ~0.75"x0.73"x0.90"

The production version of these parts changed a little, but not enough to bother pointing out the changes.

That's pretty much the entirety of the functional parts of the system, with the exception of the LPR and the Board (and we all know what those look like).

This is not off the shelf stuff, which is why it costs what it costs.

Hang in there folks, things are moving along.

:headbang:

CoolHand
08-06-2005, 12:18 AM
WHAT DO THE INSIDES LOOK LIKE.

That was rather rude. :tard:

Automaggot68
08-06-2005, 02:09 AM
That was rather rude. :tard:



Haha, Ryan.

/wink
//knowing smile
/// <- slashes

MadPSIence
08-09-2005, 08:25 PM
what are the little knobs? [/newb]

free bump for the holy grail of mag parts.

WenULiVeUdiE
08-09-2005, 08:42 PM
They appear to be screws that are in place or barbs. I guess to keep the dust/dirt out while it is not mounted in the frame.

CoolHand
08-09-2005, 09:00 PM
what are the little knobs? [/newb]

free bump for the holy grail of mag parts.

The silver ones are screws that are holding on a retainer plate, which in turn is retaining a return spring for the piston. However, it was found that the spring was not needed, so that has been deleted. The production parts have no retainer plate nor any spring. This is why the ULT is not a good idea. We need the RT force of the stock On/Off to reset the actuator.]

The brass one is the input barb for the actuator.

MadPSIence
08-09-2005, 09:52 PM
The silver ones are screws that are holding on a retainer plate, which in turn is retaining a return spring for the piston. However, it was found that the spring was not needed, so that has been deleted. The production parts have no retainer plate nor any spring. This is why the ULT is not a good idea. We need the RT force of the stock On/Off to reset the actuator.]

The brass one is the input barb for the actuator.

sounds peachy! I can't wait.

oh ryan, back a while i made a post about doin something special for the first 15. think of anything or are they gonna be the same as the rest.

Skywalker
08-10-2005, 02:17 AM
sounds peachy! I can't wait.

oh ryan, back a while i made a post about doin something special for the first 15. think of anything or are they gonna be the same as the rest.


First 15 preorders get to choose a custom color (for the frame, trigger, and VA) at no extra charge, and laser engraving of their choice on one side (I'll post up a template of the area so you can go to town), also at no extra charge.

I've been waiting for this a very long time Ry Guy. You know that. ;) When I get the money I will be on the list for sure.

Marchborne
08-10-2005, 06:46 PM
Well yeah, I can sell you a whole marker, or assemble one from parts you send, that is certainly doable (eyes or not).

The only thing that would stop us is AGD being out of what you want, but with 6- 12 weeks before the parts are all done, I'm sure we can get it all found in time though.


Ryan: a similar question here: If I send you an RT valve, a ULE body and Omega rail, could you do a similar workup for me? Basically put it all together. The DC guys and I know each other from work on my viking, so I would be just as happy if they took care of the assembly under your permission.
Thanks,
Carl.

BTW, I forgot to ask: will an Omega rail work on this frame?

CoolHand
08-10-2005, 08:10 PM
Ryan: a similar question here: If I send you an RT valve, a ULE body and Omega rail, could you do a similar workup for me? Basically put it all together. The DC guys and I know each other from work on my viking, so I would be just as happy if they took care of the assembly under your permission.
Thanks,
Carl.


DC should be able to take care of it with no problems. I'm still puzzling out what I want to do about eye covers. The longer I think about it, the more I hate the goop option. I've still got odles of time though. I don't want to say that I can for sure do the install for you until I get an idea of what I'm going to be doing. Hang in there.



BTW, I forgot to ask: will an Omega rail work on this frame?

I have no idea. I've never owned an Omega, so I don't know. I am inclined to say that it won't, because its a classic style rail, but I know the Omegas are longer (the question is how much).

MadPSIence
08-10-2005, 09:46 PM
ryan, jw if you got my pm about color. btw, about this template going up for the laser engraving. is it being posted on here or at your site?

CoolHand
08-10-2005, 09:49 PM
ryan, jw if you got my pm about color. btw, about this template going up for the laser engraving. is it being posted on here or at your site?

Yup, I got your PM. I will be verifying all the colors for each order before they go to ano anyway.

I will post the template here when I get it done.

Automaggot68
08-10-2005, 09:52 PM
Yup, I got your PM. I will be verifying all the colors for each order before they go to ano anyway.

I will post the template here when I get it done.


Did you get mine?

MadPSIence
08-10-2005, 09:55 PM
ryan i dunno if you have yet, but maybe post about your frame in the mag section on PBN.. or in any dealer sections there. might grab some people.

can't believe people here aren't catching on.. this frame basically turns your mag into an uber-reliable freestyle..

Skywalker
08-11-2005, 03:23 PM
I'm telling you Ry, try the compound eyes. They shouldn't be that hard to do and they are reliable. Take a look, first pic. http://www.devilsden.tv/DM-pics.htm

CoolHand
08-11-2005, 04:15 PM
I'm telling you Ry, try the compound eyes. They shouldn't be that hard to do and they are reliable. Take a look, first pic. http://www.devilsden.tv/DM-pics.htm

I know they aren't hard to do. Difficulty wise, they are the easiest to do. I just don't like the idea of not being able to remove the eyes to clean them and whatnot.

I'm not giving up on the eye covers yet, just hang in there hopefully they will be nice enough the first time through to satisfy me.

CoolHand
08-12-2005, 06:34 PM
Uh Oh . . . . . . . . . . . look what I found. :wow:

Side View:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-Side1.jpg

This one is more from underneith so you can see the countersunk rear frame screw (good-bye field strip screw blisters):

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-Underside1.jpg

I am still waiting on all of the internals and the triggers to be finished, so no videos or anything, just a mock-up to show you what they look like.

The LPR will stick out the front of the VA (the new VA's are one of the parts that aren't done yet).

I will post up the template for the laser engraving tonight or tomorrow.

As it sets right now, the things that are going to take the longest are:

Anodizing
Getting the boards from TAG

Bob said a month, almost a month ago, so hopefully that still holds true. Its time for me to start harrassing Bob on a more regular basis (the squeaky wheel and all).

And it's time for you folks to start saving your pennies. There are 12 of the first 15 spots still available, but once I get a video up I doubt they will last long.

You may also want to purchase some backup undies for when I get one assembled. :rofl:

That is all.

Automaggot68
08-12-2005, 06:49 PM
Take That, Non Believers!
That thing looks SICK, Ryan.
I can't wait to get mine.

Majinebz
08-12-2005, 07:59 PM
Hi, I read through alot of this to make shure I did not sound stupid. But will this work with the Logic Alpha Rail? I figure it will since you created it also. I have one on my Karta. I don't like the other rails, too fat and thick for me. Please let me know. Thanks. EBZ

CoolHand
08-12-2005, 08:03 PM
Hi, I read through alot of this to make shure I did not sound stupid. But will this work with the Logic Alpha Rail? I figure it will since you created it also. I have one on my Karta. I don't like the other rails, too fat and thick for me. Please let me know. Thanks. EBZ

I think so, but I need to test to make sure. This frame was designed to be used with an RTP style rail.

Majinebz
08-12-2005, 09:13 PM
I think so, but I need to test to make sure. This frame was designed to be used with an RTP style rail.

Alright I might jump on that preorder list and purchase one. I just need to know if it will fit on the A-rail. I would rather stick with my logic vert frame and rail shooting a slow marker, then have to change out to that ugly RTP rail. I even dislike the karta rail that comes with the body. Thanks for your time. Hope to hear the verdict soon. Later, EBZ

warbeak2099
08-12-2005, 09:36 PM
Is that a proto? Cuz I was gonna suggest that the gaurd have a slot in the bottom so you can stick an allen key through to take off the front frame screw easier.

CoolHand
08-13-2005, 01:16 AM
Is that a proto? Cuz I was gonna suggest that the gaurd have a slot in the bottom so you can stick an allen key through to take off the front frame screw easier.

Nope, that is the first production frame off the machine.

The guard is huge, there is no way you should have trouble putting the allen screw in.

If you can't (for whatever reason), I suggest you invest in a set of ball end allen keys.

The slot in the bottom detracts from the overall looks of the frame, and besides, even if it were there, the allen keys I send along aren't long enough to reach anyway.

Plus, it adds another machine operation, which adds to the cost of an already costly product.

You'll love it just the way it is, trust me.

warbeak2099
08-13-2005, 09:32 AM
I know, I just get impatient having to take the allen key out and put it back in every turn. I wish I could just keep turning it. A slot would make that possible. But yes, that extra process would jack the cost up.

slimc
08-13-2005, 01:10 PM
Why did you have to go and post pics? I made myself forget that I Ordered one so I would not get impatient. Then you go and post pics and it all comes flooding back. I want it now. Looks great though :hail: This is going to be great. My brother has a DMag on order and I think that it would be super funny if I got my ripper em frame before he got his DMag. But I don't think he will think it is very funny.

MadPSIence
08-13-2005, 02:27 PM
WOW... damn **** frickin WOW. Oh boy.. yeah that's really nice. wow. yikes... alright couple questions...

1. i noticed the integrated dovetail.. so i could just slide my asa on (i have a hybrid grind) but how in the HELL do I tighten it? Usually, if you have a rail or mini drop there's 2 small allen head screws that tighten against the inner wall of the rail/drop and flex it tight against the dovetail.

how do you tighten an asa onto it?

2. my current setup is mounted on an 05 Karta rail.. I use 2 different setups for a foregrip.

a) an RPG 15* asa w/ flat rail adapter with a gas-thru grip

b) a battery pack with a special adapter that allows it to be mounted as a foregrip on most mag setups.

I'm just wondering if either of these will fit with the huge trigger guard.. or are we now limited to a straight regular foregrip due to lack of space?

anyways, WOW.. I love the look of that. imho the snatch grip part of the frame could use some aesthetic milling but dang... nice frame bro. you make nice stuff. I can't wait to get mine. those grips also look HOT.

:clap:

MadPSIence
08-13-2005, 02:39 PM
now that i read back that there's an LPR sticking out... just how many foregrip options are we left with? :eek:

CoolHand
08-13-2005, 02:48 PM
WOW... damn **** frickin WOW. Oh boy.. yeah that's really nice. wow. yikes... alright couple questions...

1. i noticed the integrated dovetail.. so i could just slide my asa on (i have a hybrid grind) but how in the HELL do I tighten it? Usually, if you have a rail or mini drop there's 2 small allen head screws that tighten against the inner wall of the rail/drop and flex it tight against the dovetail.

how do you tighten an asa onto it?

There are six bottom line screw holes. You run a couple of tiny set screws into those holes from the top and they jam the ASA onto the dovetail. You gotta open the grips to take it off, but it gives a very clean look on the outside.

2. my current setup is mounted on an 05 Karta rail.. I use 2 different setups for a foregrip.

a) an RPG 15* asa w/ flat rail adapter with a gas-thru grip

b) a battery pack with a special adapter that allows it to be mounted as a foregrip on most mag setups.

I'm just wondering if either of these will fit with the huge trigger guard.. or are we now limited to a straight regular foregrip due to lack of space?

Nope, you gotta use the ASA I provide, or modify yours to function in the same way (that just means drill and tap another hole in the front to mount the LPR). You MUST run a gas thru setup with this frame. The RPG 15deg ASA could be modified to work, but the battery pack cannot. Any regular screw in gas thru grip will work with our new VA.

anyways, WOW.. I love the look of that. imho the snatch grip part of the frame could use some aesthetic milling but dang... nice frame bro. you make nice stuff. I can't wait to get mine. those grips also look HOT.

:clap:

Replies in red.

I left those flats for the guys to get their laser engraving done on.

CoolHand
08-13-2005, 02:50 PM
I know, I just get impatient having to take the allen key out and put it back in every turn. I wish I could just keep turning it. A slot would make that possible. But yes, that extra process would jack the cost up.

Ball end keys will let you angle the key to miss the guard, and still be able to spin it all the way around.

I'm serious, invest in a set, it will be the best $8 you ever spent on paintball.

MadPSIence
08-13-2005, 03:02 PM
well that was depressing... oh well, off to the custom drawing board to try and find a setup that looks good.

warbeak2099
08-13-2005, 03:09 PM
Ball end keys will let you angle the key to miss the guard, and still be able to spin it all the way around.

I'm serious, invest in a set, it will be the best $8 you ever spent on paintball.


Cool, kinda like a ratchet? I need these. I didn't even know such a thing existed, thank you!

CoolHand
08-13-2005, 04:32 PM
well that was depressing... oh well, off to the custom drawing board to try and find a setup that looks good.

What are you talking about?

I can modify your RPG ASA to take the LPR with about 30 mins worth of work.

Or, you can use any reg that can reliably supply 75 psi, and make it fit any way you want to.

You could use a T fitting, and run a vert reg into the VA, and side tap a barb off of it to run the frame. Or you can T off of the valve, stick an LPR on there, and just sneak the hose under one edge of the grips. Or you can make up a custom bottom plate for your battery pack and put the LPR inside of it. The possibilities are endless, it just depends on how much $$$ you want to spend, and how much time you are willing to wait.

CoolHand
08-13-2005, 04:36 PM
Cool, kinda like a ratchet? I need these. I didn't even know such a thing existed, thank you!

Not exactly. These are the ones I use:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/BallAllenKeySet.jpg

By the end being ball shaped, they allow the key to engage the screw socket at an angle less than 90 degrees. What this means is that you can still spin the key all the way around like you would if you could get to the top of the screw, but you can also angle the key around things that are in the way.

See what I mean? Best $8 you will ever spend.

fullofpaint
08-13-2005, 05:39 PM
DC could certainly do it (they are quite capable machinists), but once again, I don't know if they have done any Mags in the past, or if they want to do any now. They do a lot of machine work on Vikings and the like, which I imagine is much more profitable (and less labor intensive) than this sort of thing.


I just taklked to jared he said they won't be taking anything till at least the fall

MadPSIence
08-13-2005, 06:43 PM
hm, I might just have to send you my RPG 15* when I get it.

CoolHand
08-14-2005, 10:59 PM
We're rolling now.

I'm going to pick up the first 25 frames tomorrow, and the other innards should be getting here mid next week from the other machinists.

This means I could have a vid up in as little as a week or two.

:headbang: Rock and Friggin Roll! :rofl:

I also have good news for the eye install guys (the guys wanting me to install the eyes for them that is). I have devised a snifty set of covers and a rail mod that will let them mount solidly, while also making your rail lighter.

So, here is what I am thinking. If you buy the frame, and you want me to install the eyes, you will get:

Body drilled for eyes
Eye Covers
ULE Rail Milling
Cosmetic Rail Milling
Reano of the rail and covers (your choice of solid colors)

No price for that yet, but I won't be too long getting one together.

Its all coming together, all that is left, is for you guys to buy the durned things.

Buy them! Buy them I say!

CoolHand
08-15-2005, 01:56 AM
Here's a pic of the other side, which I posted in PB talk (might as well post it here too):

http://www.logicpaintball.com/UEF-Otherside.jpg

:ninja:

MadPSIence
08-15-2005, 01:25 PM
so like.. do we get DM5 grips WITH the frame? It's exciting.. :ninja:

btw do you know if DW's CF foregrips are gas-thru? I am either going to use one of those or a shocktech gas-thru.

CoolHand
08-15-2005, 01:40 PM
so like.. do we get DM5 grips WITH the frame? It's exciting.. :ninja:

btw do you know if DW's CF foregrips are gas-thru? I am either going to use one of those or a shocktech gas-thru.

Yes, black DM5 grips will come with every frame.

I am not sure it DW's foregrip is gas thru, but I know for a fact that it does not just screw into an ASA. You'd have to mod it to take the LPR.

The Shocktech should work fine though.

CoolHand
08-22-2005, 04:46 PM
OK, got some details ironed out.

Detail #1 - I will be doing the eye installs. I've got a system laid out that makes it go much faster.
Here is what you get with the eye install:

ULE body machined to accept eyes
Aluminum Eye Covers (ano'ed to match rail color)
ULE and Eye Clearance rail milling (rail reanodized afterwards)

Detail #2 - I have shored up pricing for whole markers.

Option #1 - Just the frame, ASA, and LPR - $450
Option #2 - Frame, ASA, LPR, Eyes installed, rail machined, eye covers included, all ano matched. (You provide the ULE body, rail, foregrip, valve, and sear assembly.) - $565
Option #3 - Whole marker. (You supply the $$$$, I supply a bad *** marker.) - $950

Now some news:

Still waiting on a few parts before I can shoot the vids.

Boards from TAG will be the major hang-up (or at least that is how it is looking ATM) as far as getting the production markers done.

lostrock
08-23-2005, 08:50 AM
as far as the eyes will it be a problem on a warp left body.

CoolHand
08-23-2005, 03:41 PM
as far as the eyes will it be a problem on a warp left body.

Yes.

Those prices and covers are only applicable to vert feed ULE bodies on RTP or EMag rails.

Anything else is custom, and will cost more/use different parts.

For the warp, you can pretty much count on getting an EBlade cover, or some other type of cover that goes all the way over the top.

You can't have everything.

FYI, there is about 1.25" of height difference between a warp body, and a vert with a warp adapter, but it is about 10 times easier to install eyes and covers on the vert feed body (plus you retain the ability to use your hopper without a warp, should you have trouble).

Skywalker
08-23-2005, 04:25 PM
Why no classic rails? I would like to use my Omega rail if that is at all possible. In addition, I hope my 15* ASA isn't a problem either.

Also, when you have a chance, can you put up a pic of the eye covers?

CoolHand
08-23-2005, 05:06 PM
Why no classic rails? I would like to use my Omega rail if that is at all possible. In addition, I hope my 15* ASA isn't a problem either.

Also, when you have a chance, can you put up a pic of the eye covers?

I have been over this many times now. Go take a look at the pics I posted and see if you can puzzle it out. (HINT: The RTP rail is over an inch longer than a classic rail)

I can modify your 15 deg to work. The VA that will come with the frame is straight thought, and I do not have plans to build a 15 deg.

I will post pics of the eye covers when I get them cut. I'm working on the CNC code right now.

yogi
08-23-2005, 05:39 PM
coolhand
i already have a pred board in a e mag, and a lpr. what would i need to complete a frame
i use a qloader and lv10 so i dont need eyes. thanks for your reply in adv.

CoolHand
08-23-2005, 05:53 PM
coolhand
i already have a pred board in a e mag, and a lpr. what would i need to complete a frame
i use a qloader and lv10 so i dont need eyes. thanks for your reply in adv.

Everything but the LPR.

If you want to buy one sans-a-board, and do the assembly yourself, you can do that, I guess, but there will be no (zero, none, zip, zilch, nada) tech support for the install. I cannot spend a great huge amount of time dealing with board install problems, or frame malfuntions caused by installation errors or initial set-up errors.

So, you gotta ask yourself how much tech support and all that is worth to you. If your answer is less than $125 (the discount to buy a frame without a board or LPR), then by all means go for it.

I will have a minimum charge of $150 to redo a botched install, plus the cost of any parts that don't survive the first try.

And you all wonder why no one builds Mag parts anymore . . . . . . . . . . .

CoolHand
08-24-2005, 06:07 PM
The actuator bodies came in today.

That leaves just the triggers MIA now. Once they show up, I can have this bad boy up and running.

The ASA's are not 100% done either, but I think I can finish one up myself for this video marker.

Hopefully next week I'll have some video to post up.

MadPSIence
08-26-2005, 01:18 PM
question about your asa's .. do they work with any rail? curious because rogue's asa's have a certain flat rail adapter that is required for some rails.

Automaggot68
08-26-2005, 01:31 PM
I have been over this many times now. Go take a look at the pics I posted and see if you can puzzle it out. (HINT: The RTP rail is over an inch longer than a classic rail)

I can modify your 15 deg to work. The VA that will come with the frame is straight thought, and I do not have plans to build a 15 deg.

I will post pics of the eye covers when I get them cut. I'm working on the CNC code right now.


What about Eye Covers for Mag Bodies such as Dallaras?
I hope you recall our AIM conversation about my mag?
If not, PM me.

CoolHand
08-26-2005, 01:46 PM
question about your asa's .. do they work with any rail? curious because rogue's asa's have a certain flat rail adapter that is required for some rails.

The ASA's are flat on top, and have the two #10-32 screw holes set 0.5" apart to fit an RTP bracket, an RTP rail, EMag rail, or anything with a slot up front. I suppose that they would go on a classic rail too, but that would of course be neglecting the fact that the trigger guard is so big that you can't use the foregrip mounting hole on a classic rail (and thusly, why this frame doesn't work so well with a classic rail).

Derek - I know you shoot a Dallara, and I am very sorry, but I haven't found a 100% beautiful solution for your eye covers yet. I have to shoot for the majority of folks here with the production stuff. I have no problem doing something custom for your marker, but I don't think I'll be able to figure it out without the body and rail here to futz with and measure and such. When it gets closer, I will get you to send it down.

As it sets, the eye covers will work with EMag, RTP, and Karta rails, as well as anything that Rogue makes that is on the RTP platform, and has flat spots under the ball detents (or has enough meat for me to make flat spots under the detents).

MadPSIence
08-26-2005, 01:53 PM
heheh, awesome. when the snow falls I'll send you my gun for eye install. :headbang:

Automaggot68
08-26-2005, 02:10 PM
T]
Derek - I know you shoot a Dallara, and I am very sorry, but I haven't found a 100% beautiful solution for your eye covers yet. I have to shoot for the majority of folks here with the production stuff. I have no problem doing something custom for your marker, but I don't think I'll be able to figure it out without the body and rail here to futz with and measure and such. When it gets closer, I will get you to send it down.

Awesome, thanks Ryan.
Just lemme know, and it'll be on its way to you.
If we can't do anything about then...Compound covers are fine for me. :D

CoolHand
08-27-2005, 08:52 PM
Awesome, thanks Ryan.
Just lemme know, and it'll be on its way to you.
If we can't do anything about then...Compound covers are fine for me. :D

Yeah, but I can't stand the epoxy eyes.

We'll get you something figured out.

DiSoRdeR
08-29-2005, 02:59 PM
Is it possible to get one with out any electronics? I really like how the frame looks but do not want an electro :D

WenULiVeUdiE
08-29-2005, 03:15 PM
Is it possible to get one with out any electronics? I really like how the frame looks but do not want an electro :D

I am pretty sure he is making a mechanical frame that looks alot like this one.

CoolHand
08-29-2005, 03:32 PM
I am pretty sure he is making a mechanical frame that looks alot like this one.

Exactly.

They are being machined as I type. Should see production parts in about a month, maybe a little longer if they hit a snag.

They will look nearly identical, but they will have a safety and the trigger stops from the vert frames. They will also take regular .45 grips instead of these high dollar DM5 grips.

DiSoRdeR
08-29-2005, 03:36 PM
Alright sounds good, thank you for answering that. I really want to start up another mag project and one of those would be perfect for it. :headbang:

Skywalker
08-29-2005, 06:08 PM
Hey Ry, clear up some of your PM's.

CoolHand
08-29-2005, 06:35 PM
Hey Ry, clear up some of your PM's.

Ops! :tard:

Done.

:ninja:

CoolHand
08-31-2005, 04:23 PM
The triggers came in today!

:headbang: X 100

I'm working on assembling the first one. I gotta cram a Pred Morlock into it instead of the new boards that TAG are working on (since TAG isn't done with those yet), so the LED and On/Off switch will not be the same as the production models. Other than that, all the parts are done (except a minor tweak I gotta do to the VA's). Basically, we are now waiting on boards, and people to buy them.

I will post pics and vids when it is done and shooting.

So far, I can say that the trigger pull F'in Rules. I have stupid fingers, and even I can walk the crap out of it. Oh yes, I do so love it when things work as designed. :ninja:

MadPSIence
08-31-2005, 04:41 PM
gah, people! START BUYING! I don't want to wait until 2006 for my frame. I need to play paintball!

I can't wait to see a model in action!

CoolHand
08-31-2005, 04:46 PM
gah, people! START BUYING! I don't want to wait until 2006 for my frame. I need to play paintball!

I can't wait to see a model in action!

Well, the ones that are already ordered will not be waiting on anyone else to buy.

They will be waiting on TAG to get me some boards done. I will be sending out emails to the pre-order guys next week (I assume, hopefully I don't find any oversights in my assembly) to confirm colors so that their parts can go off to ano.

Skywalker
08-31-2005, 06:13 PM
gah, people! START BUYING! I don't want to wait until 2006 for my frame. I need to play paintball!

I can't wait to see a model in action!



I've been waiting so long for CoolHand to do something like this and I know it's gonna freakin' rock, so I have decided to sell my X-Mag just to be able to afford this. It's just a matter of who wants to buy it. You can call me crazy :tard: , but I really don't care. I have complete faith in CoolHand.

CoolHand
08-31-2005, 06:51 PM
I've been waiting so long for CoolHand to do something like this and I know it's gonna freakin' rock, so I have decided to sell my X-Mag just to be able to afford this. It's just a matter of who wants to buy it. You can call me crazy :tard: , but I really don't care. I have complete faith in CoolHand.

:wow:

No pressure or anything.

Don't worry, we'll have you back to :shooting: before you know it.

SpecialBlend2786
08-31-2005, 08:43 PM
The triggers came in today!

:headbang: X 100

I'm working on assembling the first one. I gotta cram a Pred Morlock into it instead of the new boards that TAG are working on (since TAG isn't done with those yet), so the LED and On/Off switch will not be the same as the production models. Other than that, all the parts are done (except a minor tweak I gotta do to the VA's). Basically, we are now waiting on boards, and people to buy them.

I will post pics and vids when it is done and shooting.

So far, I can say that the trigger pull F'in Rules. I have stupid fingers, and even I can walk the crap out of it. Oh yes, I do so love it when things work as designed. :ninja:

AWESOME! Keep up the good work

I know of two people in San Diego who are dying to see this thing :)

slimc
08-31-2005, 10:38 PM
AWESOME! Keep up the good work

I know of two people in San Diego who are dying to see this thing :)


Make that 4 people in san diego. My brother (Mandatory) and i cant wait. I am one of the few who has stepped up and bought one. so when it comes in i will be so happy and ready to rip

MadPSIence
08-31-2005, 11:35 PM
i'm also one of the few.

SpecialBlend2786
09-01-2005, 01:26 AM
Make that 4 people in san diego. My brother (Mandatory) and i cant wait. I am one of the few who has stepped up and bought one. so when it comes in i will be so happy and ready to rip

wow, 4 logic EM's in the same city.

that friggin rules.

Chris_automag_07
09-01-2005, 10:41 AM
will this still be available around tax refund time? i hope....this is the only way i will get one, unless i sell my body.

SpecialBlend2786
09-01-2005, 12:22 PM
will this still be available around tax refund time? i hope....this is the only way i will get one, unless i sell my body.

that'll work. just stand somewhere downtown naked.

CoolHand
09-01-2005, 01:49 PM
will this still be available around tax refund time? i hope....this is the only way i will get one, unless i sell my body.

There is no telling.

At this rate, I am liable to have them for months yet.

I am hoping to have the preorders shipped in a month to five weeks, but I can't be sure of that since TAG isn't sure when the boards will be done.

CoolHand
09-03-2005, 02:13 AM
Got the electronics installed last night. Board and all runs like a champ.

Need to get the rail machined, and the eye covers cut, which I will (hopefully) be doing tomorrow, then its video time.

Just a few tidbits from some testing that is on-going:

Battery life is about the same as the proof of concept. I am willing to pretty much guarantee 15 cases on a good Duracell 9V. I have seen in excess of 30, but the engineer in me yearns for a factor of safety when dealing in absolutes. However, I foresee no problems at all getting 15 cases out of a battery. That said, it's always a good idea to swap them before a big game/day of play. If you carry a multi-meter with you to the field, you should dump them when they dip below 8.9volts, as they start to do funky stuff at around 8.85 volts.

Just a few things to tidy up before I can take a vid, but all in all it looks very promising (IE no "Oh ****!" moments yet, though I am sure there is something that will get me :rolleyes: ).

Be on the lookout for new pics when the rail and eye covers are done. :ninja:

Apple_Pie
09-03-2005, 02:21 PM
Accually, Im really surpised how far you have gotten without a huge delay. The only thing really thats slowing you down is the boards. I have to say this is going smooth as silk compared to some other things Ive seen similar to this. I cant wait to see the video. Im really tempted to get one now, only if I had the money. :(

CoolHand
09-03-2005, 04:56 PM
Accually, Im really surpised how far you have gotten without a huge delay. The only thing really thats slowing you down is the boards. I have to say this is going smooth as silk compared to some other things Ive seen similar to this. I cant wait to see the video. Im really tempted to get one now, only if I had the money. :(

Yes, things have gone pretty smoothly so far, but we aren't out of the woods yet.

I spent all day today arguing with the CNC machine about how it wanted its files uploaded.

Damned uppity machine tools. . . . . :mad: grumble grumble grumble grumble . . . . . . . .

slimc
09-03-2005, 06:33 PM
wow, 4 logic EM's in the same city.

that friggin rules.

No just 3, my brother has a Dmag on order. I think that it wil be really funnyif I get my logic EM before he gets his Dmag!

CoolHand
09-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Nothing new to report. Went drinking last night, so I didn't get up until about an hour ago.

Pics will be forthcoming when I win my argument with the CNC. :ninja:

warbeak2099
09-04-2005, 04:00 PM
Well, the rule for dealing with household appliances is hitting them very very hard with a hammer. Maybe it goes the same for machining tools. BTW, like I said in the pm I sent you, eblade covers might be the solution for people like Derek and me with AM/MM Classic based rails.

CoolHand
09-05-2005, 09:57 PM
Bump.

Didn't get much accomplished over the weekend . . . . . . . . drank too much.

Since I didn't have my wits about me all day yesterday, and most of today, I decided it best to avoid machine tools.

I did take the time to RTFM for the new CNC control (gasp! :wow: ), and I do believe that I have the info in hand that I need to win the argument started at the end of last week.

More updates as they come.

warbeak2099
09-06-2005, 07:48 AM
Give any thought to using rubber eblade covers for people with classic based rails like Derek's Dallara and my Alpha? I think you might have to cut the bottom of the eye cover shorter, but it'd work.

mandatory
09-06-2005, 11:03 AM
wow, 4 logic EM's in the same city.

that friggin rules.


Actually that doesnt rule!!!!! there are actually only 3. I, unfortunatly made the untimely decision to send my gun to become a devilmag.....and 6 months later i still ahve no gun and have no idea what is going on or when i will see it. My brother, (slimc) being older and wiser, waited to see what happend with the devilmags, and was able to avoid the headach they have become. Then coolhand stepped up and decided to do the automag the right way, and my brother jumped on the oppertunity to pre-order. I know these thigs are gonna rip and be top quality. I had a logic vert frame on my mag befor i sent it into the abyss, and i loved it. Its on my brothers rt right now. Its gonna be a dark day around my house when my brother gets his ripper EM befor i get my devilmag. I may have to seclude myself for fear of injury to others. I hope and know that all your guns are gonnar rip. Be thankful you made a good choice.

PaintballSmurf13
09-06-2005, 06:20 PM
just a thought... Sythe type trigger as an option... that would rule :headbang:
-Ryan

Doobie
09-06-2005, 06:43 PM
Bump.

Didn't get much accomplished over the weekend . . . . . . . . drank too much.

Since I didn't have my wits about me all day yesterday, and most of today, I decided it best to avoid machine tools.

I did take the time to RTFM for the new CNC control (gasp! :wow: ), and I do believe that I have the info in hand that I need to win the argument started at the end of last week.

More updates as they come.

You just gotta love CoolHand's honesty. No silly excuses like the anno guy lost the shipment, etc...
He just straight out admits it. :cheers:
LOL!
:D

CoolHand
09-06-2005, 09:55 PM
Hey, I tells 'em like I sees em . . . . . . . . and Saturday night, I see'd too many drinks. Then Sunday I see'd the Tylenol bottle, and not much else.

Suffice to say I shan't be doing that again for a while. :rofl:

Today, I got the programs into the machine's memory (I prevailed despite a few irritating bugs). Hopefully I will be able to find time to cut the parts in the next few days. If not before, for sure on Friday (hooray for no classes on Fridays!).

Other than that, not much to report.

And Doobie, for the record, I have had ano guys lose whole markers before. Fortunately they were really just "misplaced", but one still came back with many parts MIA.

Anodizers are a bane on society, I swear. If not for crappy ano guys, I would not have had half the troubles I did (with any project).

Lets just cross our collective fingers that the new guy (who has come highly recommended by many people from all over) doesn't drop the ball on me.

SpecialBlend2786
09-07-2005, 02:53 AM
Actually that doesnt rule!!!!! there are actually only 3. I, unfortunatly made the untimely decision to send my gun to become a devilmag.....and 6 months later i still ahve no gun and have no idea what is going on or when i will see it. My brother, (slimc) being older and wiser, waited to see what happend with the devilmags, and was able to avoid the headach they have become. Then coolhand stepped up and decided to do the automag the right way, and my brother jumped on the oppertunity to pre-order. I know these thigs are gonna rip and be top quality. I had a logic vert frame on my mag befor i sent it into the abyss, and i loved it. Its on my brothers rt right now. Its gonna be a dark day around my house when my brother gets his ripper EM befor i get my devilmag. I may have to seclude myself for fear of injury to others. I hope and know that all your guns are gonnar rip. Be thankful you made a good choice.

well i say that once they come in we all go celebrate with a weekend at velocity.

Hopefully your D.Mag is ready by then though :bounce:

warbeak2099
09-07-2005, 09:18 AM
Not to be a pest, but has my eblade eye cover been given any thought? I spent so long making that ms paint image lol. Feasible? I know the rubber covers may be too long, but you could always strip some rubber off of the bottom and cut the wires shorter. Got any laying around? Here's the craptastic paint creation again:

http://www.bohica.freeservers.com/images/eblade_covers.jpg

That is a render of my gun with the "arachna-magged" VM Ripper, the EM Ripper will obviously be mounted on an RT style rail with the special VA.

CoolHand
09-07-2005, 12:22 PM
Not to be a pest, but has my eblade eye cover been given any thought? I spent so long making that ms paint image lol. Feasible? I know the rubber covers may be too long, but you could always strip some rubber off of the bottom and cut the wires shorter. Got any laying around? Here's the craptastic paint creation again:

http://www.bohica.freeservers.com/images/eblade_covers.jpg

That is a render of my gun with the "arachna-magged" VM Ripper, the EM Ripper will obviously be mounted on an RT style rail with the special VA.

Yes, I've thought about it, and I still don't like the Eblade covers (thought they are orders of magnitude better looking than the goop).

For the ULE bodies and RT rails, I've got a nice solution. For the Karta guys, I think I can adapt said solution, though I will have to machine on their bodies some to pull it off (it will all cover though).

The Dallaras are the bind. I may end up being forced to use the eblade covers on the Dallaras. If they can switch to the RT type rail, I think I can mod the aluminum eye covers to fit the body. We'll just have to wait and see.

mandatory
09-07-2005, 12:53 PM
well i say that once they come in we all go celebrate with a weekend at velocity.

Hopefully your D.Mag is ready by then though :bounce:




Im definatly up for that idea....people at velocity willl be like, wtf with all the super-mags raining down hoppers of paint on my skull!!! And hopefully my dmag comes with in the year.....hopefully!! :rofl:

CoolHand
09-08-2005, 11:43 PM
Got the tool heights checked and loaded them in the changer this afternoon. :ninja:

Takes an even dozen (12) tools and 30 kB of chip munching G-Code ( :rofl: ) to make these covers and mod the rails.

Gonna try to make some chips tomorrow.

I've still gotta cut some billets, set the fixture offsets, and test the programs before that can happen, but unless I have a bunch of trouble, that stuff should go pretty quickly.

Here's to hoping for smooth sailing. :cheers:

I gotta go rattle TAG's cage again, to see how far along the boards are.

More news tomorrow night (hopefully).

MadPSIence
09-08-2005, 11:47 PM
awesome. I can't wait for it. I've skipped half a season of paintball just waitin for it!

CoolHand
09-09-2005, 05:53 PM
Got the first couple fixture offsets measured and into the control, and the eye cover program tested.

Everything was OK there, ready to make some chips . . . . . . . . . . Aw damn.

I had forgotten that the clear door of the enclosure had fallen apart when we had the table apart (to replace the X axis servo). Soooo, I had to enlist some help to clean up the parts, regoop them with silicon, and then rivet them back together.

Its all done, but the silicon needs to cure overnight (at least) before I start slinging coolant on it.

I'm all ready to jump on it tomorrow though.

Should get half a dozen covers and one rail at least done tomorrow.

I did use the down time to do a couple of other parts of the UEF project. I got one of the VA's finished, and I got my valve's field strip screw hole helicoiled (some ham fisted fool had destroyed the threads entirely, which explains why I got it so cheap :rolleyes: ).

Now I just need to get the ghettoriffic on/off switch resoldered (its been acting wonky), and the covers and rail cut, and then we'll be in movie town.

It is moving along, slowly, but surely.

Chris_automag_07
09-10-2005, 04:51 PM
is this gonna have a magnetic trigger, also could it be ordered black with a red trigger?

CoolHand
09-10-2005, 05:50 PM
is this gonna have a magnetic trigger, also could it be ordered black with a red trigger?

The trigger return is done via a magnet, but the trigger itself actuates a micro-switch. No HES to deal with here.

And yes, if you order one, you can specify what colors you want on the frame, the VA, and the trigger (different colors for each if you like, no extra charge).

CoolHand
09-10-2005, 11:34 PM
Got the rail and eye covers cut today. It all looks really good. I'm just too damned tired to take pictures tonight.

The ULE body I have is going to have to go. It was drilled for the old eye covers that I used with the proof of concept marker. I had to move the eyes a little, and changed the way the covers mounted, so the body looks a little wonky right now. Don't sweat it when you see the pics, its not that big of a deal (IE the production models won't look like that).

May have to put off the movies until I can get another body and some detents from AGD (yet another thing I had forgotten, I robbed the detents off of my Mag to get a customer's marker running).

Anyway, the project is coming along nicely. Should be able to cycle it and at least check for fit problems while I wait for the detents and the body.

I can say one thing for sure, it looks bad ***, even if I do say so myself. :headbang:

And man is it light. I'm guessing that we will actually see a decrease in weight over a stock RT ULE, even with all the extra crap hanging off the front. That just rules. :ninja:

WenULiVeUdiE
09-11-2005, 12:10 AM
I must say, after reading all this, I am seriously considering buying a ULE mag just so I can get this frame. That or just a ULE body and gas-thru. I'm just not sure my wallet would like me afterwords...

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 12:44 AM
I must say, after reading all this, I am seriously considering buying a ULE mag just so I can get this frame. That or just a ULE body and gas-thru. I'm just not sure my wallet would like me afterwords...

I've been asked before about doing a whole marker from scratch, and the retail price I came up with was $950. That's with a ULE body, XValve, the rail milled, and the eyes installed.

The frame is $450, and the eye install is $125. So, if you can't gather up the individual parts you need for under $375, you're better off buying the whole thing at once (IMO anyway).

I'm sure we can find a middle ground if you want to supply the valve and body, or some other combo of parts.

Automaggot68
09-11-2005, 12:51 AM
I've been asked before about doing a whole marker from scratch, and the retail price I came up with was $950. That's with a ULE body, XValve, the rail milled, and the eyes installed.

The frame is $450, and the eye install is $125. So, if you can't gather up the individual parts you need for under $375, you're better off buying the whole thing at once (IMO anyway).

I'm sure we can find a middle ground if you want to supply the valve and body, or some other combo of parts.
My dallara yearns for your touch.

Gunther_mag_user
09-11-2005, 01:52 AM
My dallara yearns for your touch.

it wants to be molested? :confused:




:p

WenULiVeUdiE
09-11-2005, 01:50 PM
I'm sure we can find a middle ground if you want to supply the valve and body, or some other combo of parts.

I would only be able to supply the valve and rail. What would the cost be with just supplying you with those 2 items?

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 02:02 PM
I would only be able to supply the valve and rail. What would the cost be with just supplying you with those 2 items?

$450 for the frame, $145 for the body (or whatever AGD's retail is, my price list is old), and then $125 for the eye install and covers. So, that's $720 + shipping.

If the EMag valve still has an EMag On/Off in it, you'll need to replace that with a stock RTP On/Off as well. But hell, what's another $25 when you're spending $800? ;)

Pics should be up in a couple of hours.

SpecialBlend2786
09-11-2005, 02:54 PM
$450 for the frame, $145 for the body (or whatever AGD's retail is, my price list is old), and then $125 for the eye install and covers. So, that's $720 + shipping.

If the EMag valve still has an EMag On/Off in it, you'll need to replace that with a stock RTP On/Off as well. But hell, what's another $25 when you're spending $800? ;)

Pics should be up in a couple of hours.

a couple of hours meaning 2 hours?

cause its already almost been 1 :ninja:

*bounces in chair* :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 03:02 PM
a couple of hours meaning 2 hours?

cause its already almost been 1 :ninja:

*bounces in chair* :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Keep it in your pants Gunga Din.

I just got a call from a buddy, and I gotta go back to the shop to work on his truck.

Pics will be delayed a bit, but I will get them taken and posted when I get back.

Hang in there.

SpecialBlend2786
09-11-2005, 03:20 PM
Keep it in your pants Gunga Din.

I just got a call from a buddy, and I gotta go back to the shop to work on his truck.

Pics will be delayed a bit, but I will get them taken and posted when I get back.

Hang in there.

oh em ge!

MadPSIence
09-11-2005, 03:27 PM
*****in suspense*****

btw ryan how's the template for the laser engraving coming along?

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 03:40 PM
OK, my bud is taking forever to get here, so I took some pics of the outsides.

Enjoy! :headbang:

Driver's Side:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-Final-DriverSide.jpg

Trigger Guard/Eye Cover/LP Hose Detail:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-EyeCover-Trigger-HoseDe.jpg

Back of rail showing off the massive amount of material removed from all over (more pics when I get back of the rail and covers apart):
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-RailCutThru.jpg

That is all for now. More when I get back.

SpecialBlend2786
09-11-2005, 03:55 PM
HOLY ****

<3 those eye covers ryan.

friggin awesome. I cant wait till the boards come in!!!

:shooting:

EDIT: will hold off on badgering questions untill later ;)

Apple_Pie
09-11-2005, 04:12 PM
Lets drink to the awsome mag! :cheers:

MadPSIence
09-11-2005, 04:17 PM
All I can say is WOW.. BUT.. wow on the front end / lpr - is there any way to clean it up a bit? Even the NME is cleaner in terms of the lpr / hosing. That looks seriously ghetto rigged.. maybe it's just the ANS.

What type of AKA or STD LPR could I replace it with and what PSI would you set it to?

SpecialBlend2786
09-11-2005, 04:24 PM
All I can say is WOW.. BUT.. wow on the front end / lpr - is there any way to clean it up a bit? Even the NME is cleaner in terms of the lpr / hosing. That looks seriously ghetto rigged.. maybe it's just the ANS.

What type of AKA or STD LPR could I replace it with and what PSI would you set it to?

nah, i think its just cause the jackhammer is red and everything else is raw, thats why it looks ghetto rigged.

I actually like the look of it.

Ryan, is it possible to get the mag all gloss black with gold eye covers, trigger, and jackhammer?

pweeze?

master_alexander
09-11-2005, 05:31 PM
i was thinking about moving the lpr so that it is the foregrip, use one of thoes bottomline things (i have no clue of the name) and just put a slide over it.

would that work?

i think it would be a really cool idea...

MadPSIence
09-11-2005, 06:28 PM
i was thinking about moving the lpr so that it is the foregrip, use one of thoes bottomline things (i have no clue of the name) and just put a slide over it.

would that work?

i think it would be a really cool idea...

if you can get air to both the LPR and the Valve then yes.. otherwise no.

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 08:27 PM
Man, MadPSIence you sure know how to kick a man when he's feeling good.

How, exactly, would you make that connection look any cleaner? Its an 1/8 NPT pipe nipple, end of story. ANY LPR for a cocker is going to look exactly the same way.

By using a short 90 degree hose barb there instead of that huge push to connect, you can make the hosing run straighter (which is what I will do for the production stuff), but that fitting was already on that LPR, and its all I had setting here.

I could have done many things to make that look cleaner, down to making a whole front block assembly like an Intimidator has.

"But why didn't you then?!"

Because, this thing already costs $450. If I had gotten much more engineery with the parts (read that as - made them work more smoothly, but become more complex as a side effect), it would have turned into $500 or $550 really quickly.

I mean, you can do anything you like up there. Buy any LP output inline reg and use a "T" fitting down on the bottom line, then just run a hose nipple out of one of the ports for the frame. That is all up to you (this is why I left the option to buy it without an LPR at all).

This is going to have to be a thinking man's mod, in that you may have to put just a fuzz of thought (GASP! :wow: ) into your setup to get exactly what you want out of it. That, or pay me to do it for you. One of the two I guess. You'll either have to be smart and thrifty, or stupid and loaded. Sorry to all you stupid poor people out there, you're SOL. :rofl:

warbeak2099
09-11-2005, 08:56 PM
That looks ridiculously awesome. Holy crap wow.

As for the eblade covers, I like how they look and I like my Alpha rail. So if I sent you some eblade covers, bb eyes, and my mag along with some MONEY, would you still be adverse to doing the install with the rubber covers? I think it's the best looking way to do it for people with AM/MM rails. However, those covers you have for the RT rails look hawter than hawt. The whole thing is beautiful.

MadPSIence
09-11-2005, 09:35 PM
How am I kicking you? I'm putting FAITH into you, which about 3 people here have so far as the numbers show. I've paid 450 bucks for something that hasn't been built yet and supported it the whole way.

I think I should be allowed to give my opinion of things as it progresses. It's not like I'm backing out or saying the product sucks. You know very well I've been all about this frame since you first mentioned it.

Lenny
09-11-2005, 10:13 PM
Hey, CoolHand, will you take installment plans on this? Being 17 and working part time, and having a girlfriend (freakin' expensive!) It'll take me a while to gather all the funds at once. But if I could pay monthly, I could probably do $70ish a month. I mean, they are going to take a few months anyway, right?

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 10:19 PM
How am I kicking you? I'm putting FAITH into you, which about 3 people here have so far as the numbers show. I've paid 450 bucks for something that hasn't been built yet and supported it the whole way.

I think I should be allowed to give my opinion of things as it progresses. It's not like I'm backing out or saying the product sucks. You know very well I've been all about this frame since you first mentioned it.

It was a euphemism. Meaning that you know how to rain on my parade with criticism. Chill out. Also, for the record, they are built, they just aren't assembled.

I have enough parts here to build 25 of these bad boys right now, with 25 more being only about two weeks off (all I'm short on them is the frame itself).

You are more than welcome to your opinion, but you have to realize that comparing this product to even the NME is no where near a fair shake. I have 25 of these. They are making NME's by the thousands, in China, and they still sell for near a grand.

I can't even come close to touching their production prices (IE mine are likely at least 10 times higher), much less the complexity of their engineering. I can conceive of anything, design it, and bring it to fruition, sure. But I can't do for even close to what those guys can. It just costs a lot more to do things in the tiny batches I am forced into. Even at this batch size, I've got about $7500 tied up in this project, just in parts.

Don't take things so seriously, you'll be a lot happier. :cheers:

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 10:21 PM
Hey, CoolHand, will you take installment plans on this? Being 17 and working part time, and having a girlfriend (freakin' expensive!) It'll take me a while to gather all the funds at once. But if I could pay monthly, I could probably do $70ish a month. I mean, they are going to take a few months anyway, right?

I'm sure we can work something out. I've done layaway for other people before, just don't mail in cash every week like that guy did. :rofl:

Hit me with an email ( tech@logicpaintball.com) and we can discuss it.

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 10:34 PM
Now, on with some more pictures.

The long awaited pics of the innards of the frame:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-FrameInside2.jpg

Top of the frame: ------------------------------------------------------------------------Inside of Rail:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-FrameTop.jpg http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-RailULEFull.jpg

Another shot inside the rail:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-RailInside1.jpg

Underside of the rail:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-RailUnderside.jpg

Closeup showing the contour of the eye covers:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-Rail-EyeCoverContour.jpg

Hollow inside the eye cover to clear the wiring:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-EyeCoverHollow.jpg

Side view of the eye covers:
http://www.logicpaintball.com/images/UEF-RailSide.jpg

MonsterMag
09-11-2005, 10:37 PM
All I can say is WOW
I am very impressed. You did an extravagant job on this and it looks amazing. Suspect nothing less from coolhand
Good job :cheers:

MadPSIence
09-11-2005, 10:39 PM
i can't wait to see this thing even Dryfire! **excited**

btw, still, if I wanted to use a different LPR.. what options are out there and what PSI would I run?

luke
09-11-2005, 10:51 PM
Nice work as usual... :cool:

What prompted you to go with a design like this, the lack of strong compact solenoids?

CoolHand
09-11-2005, 11:08 PM
i can't wait to see this thing even Dryfire! **excited**

btw, still, if I wanted to use a different LPR.. what options are out there and what PSI would I run?

Any Cocker LPR will work where that one is mounted (be that an SCM, or Jackhammer, or Sledgehammer, or MiniMaxFlo, or Sonic, or a Tickler, or a Rock, or a MicroRock, or an FGP, or whatever). OR, you can use T fitting to an inline into the VA, and then just a nipple out of one of the ports. OR, we could do a run of VA's to that will use a Timmy LPR (you can pretty much bet on that adding at least $100 to the price tag). OR, I can talk to Palmer's and have them do some special stabilizers that will reg out one port while still being gas thru (count on that adding $150-$175 to the price).

Whatever you use, it will need to be set to 50-75 psi to run consistently.


Nice work as usual... :cool:

What prompted you to go with a design like this, the lack of strong compact solenoids?

Yeah, the electro-mechanical solenoids are clunky, and require batteries so big that it's ridiculous (OR, get so few shots per battery that it's ridiculous). They also require the ULT, which when coupled with the LVL X takes the old reliable Mag, and turns it into a tuning nightmare on par with a cocker of the pre-threaded timing rod vintage.

I wanted my old reliable LVL 7 Mag back, but I wanted it to be light, fast as hell and not chop paint. No one made this kind of Mag at the time, and that kinda pissed me off, so I went to it. This is what you get when I get grumpy and a few folks talk about spending money. :rofl:

MadPSIence
09-12-2005, 12:28 AM
i have a question, say I threw a Palmer's Micro Rock on... how do I set the output for it? (i know, with an allen key... but how do i know what psi it's putting out on this setup?)

CoolHand
09-12-2005, 01:00 AM
i have a question, say I threw a Palmer's Micro Rock on... how do I set the output for it? (i know, with an allen key... but how do i know what psi it's putting out on this setup?)

You'll have to build an adapter like I did, or buy a Rock-o-Meter from Palmer's.

All you need is an 1/8" NPT port for a gauge, and a #10-32 port for the hose nipple.

You can go to http://www.mcmaster.com and do a search for part # 51025K241

That is a push to connect fitting for 1/8" OD hose which has a female 1/8" NPTF pipe connection on the other end.

Buy that, and screw any low range gauge into it. I would suggest a 0-100 psi gauge, but a 0-300 psi would work too.

MadPSIence
09-12-2005, 03:58 AM
anyway I could just crank the PSI down, and start turning it up until performance is satisfactory?

rkjunior303
09-12-2005, 11:50 AM
anyway I could just crank the PSI down, and start turning it up until performance is satisfactory?

probably the same way you would do it with a cocker. give it a slight turn until it consistently then give it another 1/4 turn or so... then check for shootdown on high rof strings.

CoolHand
09-12-2005, 12:55 PM
probably the same way you would do it with a cocker. give it a slight turn until it consistently then give it another 1/4 turn or so... then check for shootdown on high rof strings.

Yup, that will work too.