Laser Trigger(LTD) released...

[bunny5]

With the technology of paintball continuously changing with light weight markers, allowing ramping in tournaments to new fast paced styles of the paintball games this has become the next generation of paintball. Making markers faster and faster with out bounce has become and obsession to all paintball players. What if you could take a maker and have a trigger that takes the marker to its physical limits with no bounce of any kind? Could this be possible? With the development of lasers they have changed our way of life and for us, paintball.

http://www.ltdgear.com/images/stories/ltdr03-sm.jpg


LTD has over the past 9 months developed the Laser Trigger (LT) for the paintball marker. By breaking the beam it replaces the traditional mechanical trigger. There is no spring to bounce off, no trigger movement, and no trigger switch delay. One break of the beam is one shot. With that there is no trigger bounce. It only takes a millimeter of movement to break the beam. That means your fingers only move a fraction of an inch to generate the highest rate of fire.

http://www.ltdgear.com/images/stories/ltdr02-sm.jpg


LTD has also partnered with KnuTec to develop a clean program to work with the LT. NoX will be exclusively used and installed on all LT installed Mods. We have found in our testing the NoX is the cleanest and most reliable program on the market.

http://www.ltdgear.com/images/stories/ltdr01-sm.jpg

With the many styles of paintball markers LTD will release the LT for certain paintball markers. We will start with having the customer send in their existing marker to have the LT installed. Or purchase a LT modified marker directly from LTD or and LTD authorized dealer.



The idea has been around for along time, finally someone stepped up to try it.


Do you think this is good or bad for the sport?

[AcemanPB]

I swear I've seen this done before. Not an actual product but a project gun, maybe it was from Doc's shop...

As far as if its good for the sport.... with ramping boards and near full auto modes being legal I don't really see how this could make things any worse. I really doubt this product will take off though, unless the PBN kids decide its the new AGG of the month. I think its a cool idea but not very practical, I think it would be tough to play without some type of tactile feedback from a trigger.

[JoshK]

Wow...I wonder if the put the laser alittle more forward...then you would pass through the laser twice if you bounce off the trigger frame like an actual trigger. That could possibly be legal though.

[-=Squid=-]

I don't think it's going to be good or bad, I think it's going to be an unpopular, crappy product.

You need some weight and response to be able to walk high speeds.

[counterstrike53]

what the heck does agg mean?

[magman007]

it wont sell, its 350 for the damn system, and its tourny illegal, nuff said

[JimmyBeam]

what the heck does agg mean?


it means your more worried about the way you dress on the paintball field than the way you play paintball. i cant stand it.....



anyways, about the trigger. i think it would work well, but im so used to having my finger resting on the trigger, it mind seem too weird

[CJ55]

Has anyone seen the video? I did and either the trigger is slow or the guy testing it is slow.

[Army]

Every tourney venue calls for a physical trigger.

If I were a field owner, I wouldn't want any marker that could be fired by a bug flying through the trigger guard.

I predict, it is already a failure.

[dahoeb]

i think thats dangerous. if all you have to do is break a laser beam, that means that just about anything can set it off.

triggers are so light and sensitive nowadays anyways, but when you have an actual trigger there, you have something to guide your fingers. with breaking a laser beam, you never know when your finger is slipping to far or something and will trigger it to fire. also, what if a little bit of dirt or paint get in there and blocks the beam in mid game?

triggers today are so sensitive i don't think that this is really necessary. we may as well just keep the tried and true method of firing until a method just as safe and reliable comes along. maybe if they adjusted where the breakbeam is or something, like a vertical beam instead of horizontal (it looks horizontal at least...).

all this talk of lasers is getting me thinking of austin power and sharks with lasers on their head. hahaha haha ha....(cricket cricket)

[cuttydiamond]

Or what if there was a physical trigger that tripped some kind of optical sensor. That way its tourny legal, but theres no bounce.

[Automaggot68]

Or what if there was a physical trigger that tripped some kind of optical sensor. That way its tourny legal, but theres no bounce.


I thought the E1/2 Already did that?

[dahoeb]

that sounds like a really good idea if nobodies done that yet....hmm

[shartley]

I predict, it is already a failure.
Agreed.

[warbeak2099]

What happens when some peice of shell/debrie flies through the trigger gaurd while playing. Players lay a lot of paint down today and it's not uncommon to have hails of paint and shell fly off of the side of a bunker. That would be ridiculous. You have no control over the trigger system. Impractical. I think touchpad triggers are a better idea.

The movies are cool and all, but what happens when you get out on the field? I think at that point you lose control over the gun's firing. Once you add in flying debrie and all that junk you've got a problem. And that's just indoors. At an outdoor field it'd be even more of a loss of control. The price isn't a problem though. It's $325 for the laser triggering system and the NoX board, which seems like not that bad a board.

However, I would like to see a vid of someone playing with one and some more information out of LTD on the matter of flying debries/bugs/etc. If they do indeed prove that the system they've created is not affected by these things, then I think it might be a neat upgrade. But I could never handle having a gun that I don't have control over.

[ojhspyro89]

WDP is going to sue. Seriosly coming from WDP. I think it came from owen, but yeah, they are going to sue.

I remember when owen (dont quote this) said sp was ruining paintball by sueing, now WDP is the freaking nazis....

[WARPED1]

it wont sell, its 350 for the damn system, and its tourny illegal, nuff said
Why is it illegal? One "pull" is one shot, semi auto. Sonds legal to me, hopefully it'll come down in price.

[Lohman446]

Its not legal, all current (major) rules require movement of the trigger to fire - and they talk about the plane of movement and direction. This can be fired by breaking it from any direction with movemetn towards any direction = not legal.

I see it as a safety hazard as others pointed out.

I see it as not being any faster as others pointed out - I like to ahve some trigger feel.

I see it being far to expensive as others pointed out

I see it failing - as others pointed out...

[WARPED1]

It might fail. But look at the Spyder rocking trigger. It was thought to be illegal, but as explained by Chuck, it's NPPL lega(keep in mind Kingman is a major NPPL sponsor.:))

[warbeak2099]

I don't see how it's a bad deal though if the system is impervious to flying bits. For $325 you get an upgrade board that's similar to Advantage and Predators and the Laser system. That's around $160 for the board and $165 for the laser system. I'm willing to bet that system isn't cheap. Plus the milling of the frame is included in that too.

[Chronobreak]

cool idea, however i dont think ti should be allwoed because there is no pull and or release.

but since when is there any p-ball rules.. :rolleyes:



as a ref i see this as more of a safety hazard than anything

[AGD202]

honestly, how often do you see a damn piece of shell or something stuck to the side of your trigger???? tell me that... and then ull see y that trigger would not be more dangerous than most guns out already. if anything this trigger would make the sport even more safe because of the fact that you can not walk as fast, not that being overshot hurts anything either.
this trigger seems more like a showgun kind of thing than anything else


What happens when some peice of shell/debrie flies through the trigger gaurd while playing. Players lay a lot of paint down today and it's not uncommon to have hails of paint and shell fly off of the side of a bunker. That would be ridiculous. You have no control over the trigger system. Impractical. I think touchpad triggers are a better idea.

The movies are cool and all, but what happens when you get out on the field? I think at that point you lose control over the gun's firing. Once you add in flying debrie and all that junk you've got a problem. And that's just indoors. At an outdoor field it'd be even more of a loss of control. The price isn't a problem though. It's $325 for the laser triggering system and the NoX board, which seems like not that bad a board.

However, I would like to see a vid of someone playing with one and some more information out of LTD on the matter of flying debries/bugs/etc. If they do indeed prove that the system they've created is not affected by these things, then I think it might be a neat upgrade. But I could never handle having a gun that I don't have control over.

[ThePixelGuru]

I think I could walk/fan this trigger faster than any other on the market. Still, I wouldn't buy it, though. Having no trigger would just be too odd. When you're not firing, where do you hold your fingers? Hovering out in the middle of nowhere seems kind of odd, and outside of the guard is too far away. Seems pretty unusable, but I still want to try one.

[Lurker27]

The kingman trigger is illegal. It's just not enforced.

This is illegal because of the "movable lever" clause.

There's so much that can be done with analog trigger input, and we still putz around with stupid stuff like this. A trigger that requires no rhythm. A trigger that can st its own debounce parameters.

[WARPED1]

No, in an interview with Chuck on WARPIG, he said it was completely legal if set up correctly, kind of like RT's I guess...........

[LudavicoSoldier]

Wait wait arent those illegal? I coulda sworn triggerless triggers were outlawed? :wow:

[MaChu]

Seen it before along time ago. Way back when there was a video on the internet from The Wiseguys of a silver Bushmaster 2000 with special gloves which mimiced the same thing. Old idea, been done.

[Target Practice]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

[PsychoBaller]

As many have already said, but simply stated here... Saftey is the first issue for this gun to overcome. Trigger guard is really no protector of a break-beam sensor system. Not gonna be allowed for non-safety issues.

[warbeak2099]

honestly, how often do you see a damn piece of shell or something stuck to the side of your trigger???? tell me that... and then ull see y that trigger would not be more dangerous than most guns out already. if anything this trigger would make the sport even more safe because of the fact that you can not walk as fast, not that being overshot hurts anything either.
this trigger seems more like a showgun kind of thing than anything else


Yes, actuallt I have got debries stuck inside my trigger gaurd. Almost every time I play it happens. Stranger things can happen. There's a lot of crap flying around on a paintball field. Especially outdoors. Unless the beams can only be broken by fingers somehow, the gun could potentially go nuts without the user's control.

[dahoeb]

"honestly, how often do you see a damn piece of shell or something stuck to the side of your trigger???? tell me that"

actually i see that quite a bit. and if you have a physical trigger, the debris would have to work its way around the outside of the trigger, into the inside, and then behind the trigger to really do anything weird. thats is a less likely of happening than a little dirt or something falling into the little laser holes. just imagine if your diving into a bunker on a sandy or dusty field. dirt getting in there is possible.

[billmi]

No, in an interview with Chuck on WARPIG, he said it was completely legal if set up correctly, kind of like RT's I guess...........

Actually that was an interview with Dave Zinkham, the NPPL scrutineer. In the same show, Chuch talked about the league's future and sanctioning of the IAO.

As for safety....

A trigger guard is going to provide the same protection to an optical trigger as to a mechanical trigger. A purely optical trigger would provide additional safety, in that it can not possible be set off by shock from the paintgun being dropped or impacted, or be adjusted to a point where physical bounce causes a runaway trigger. I would argue that a purely optical trigger would be safer than an electromechanical, or optomechanical trigger.

As for mechanical triggers breaking a beam...
Been done on both the E-Blade and the Angel.

As for purely optical triggers as described, I know of at least one company that's done it in prototype form, and filed a provisional patent in the 1990s, don't know if they completed the patent process on it or not.

As for tournament legality...
Rules will adapt to technology - if there is a demand with enough pull, wording will get changed to allow it (remember when IAO and NPPL dropped the gravity feed requirement purely to allow the Warp Feed?) With current rule wording, I would see problems with requirements for the application and release of force on the trigger, as well as requirements (PSP) that the trigger can only be actuated from a pull that is in a plane parallel to the barrel (can't be triggered by pushing in fron the side.) Of course the PSP 5 man rules say teams get 8 games in the prelims and they haven't done that for all the divisions this season, so you may well see it allowed if the refs consider it to follow the spirit of the rules.

[billmi]

What happens when some peice of shell/debrie flies through the trigger gaurd while playing.

The same thing that happens when a big chunk of shell hits a really sensitive electro-mechanical trigger - the gun will shoot.

[Lohman446]

NPPL rules call for physical movement and specify that the movement of a switch alone is not a trigger pull

[WARPED1]

Actually that was an interview with Dave Zinkham, the NPPL scrutineer. In the same show, Chuch talked about the league's future and sanctioning of the IAO.


Ohhhhhhhhhh, so I got confuzzled. :tard: Me like PigTV........................

[TDonovan]

I like the idea of using laser/eyes to shoot a gun, but I do not like this particular idea.

What I would want to see is a trigger with a nice magnetically adjustable pull with a beam that you break to fire the gun. That way you have a legal trigger but avoid the microswitch. I'm not sure how much better it would be in comparison, but I think it'd be interesting to use something other than a microswitch.

[ShaftyMcGee]

umm didnt smart parts patent this? seriously though, i thought they did.

[Lohman446]

umm didnt smart parts pantent this? seriously though, i thought they did.

They patented a touch trigger - basically a button you pushed rather than a trigger

[WARPED1]

I hope they come out with an Ion version.