Do you NEED ramping for tournies??

[blykins]

I am trying to do a tryout for a team for CFOA and the guy is saying that since my Xmag doesnt have ramping, i need to sell it and get a shocker/dm4 that has ramping. Should i tell this guy to STFU or what?

[AGDlover]

ya tell em to STFU and learn how to shoot in semi

[blykins]

" well dude really if u wanna be on the team ure gonna have to get up to date stuff,like a gun that wasnt make in the 90's"

[player4]

My friend plays pump in tournies, and he still dominates.

I am used to playing with a mech mag, and I recently upgraded to an x-mag. I honestly do not see the need for ramping when your marker is already shooting 16bps.....unless you suck at paintball of course.

[player4]

" well dude really if u wanna be on the team ure gonna have to get up to date stuff,like a gun that wasnt make in the 90's"

X-mags weren't made in the '90's......

[blykins]

Ok he said hes going to let me tryout, but that if I make the team, im gonna have to get some "agg" gear. Whatever that means. :rolleyes:

[player4]

Ok he said hes going to let me tryout, but that if I make the team, im gonna have to get some "agg" gear. Whatever that means. :rolleyes:

Check the urban dictionary...... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=agg

[blykins]

8yrs of playing means im not skilled and need all new gear. :rolleyes:. I swear to god im going to start a team myself and its going to have a 21+ age limit. :headbang:

[JRingold]

I swear I'm going to start a team and only shoot Mags. Wait, that's already been done. Well, then, I guess there's no need to start a team...

[blykins]

I swear I'm going to start a team and only shoot Mags. Wait, that's already been done. Well, then, I guess there's no need to start a team...

That would be really cool but theres not enough mags around here to do that. I've seen less than 5 mags in 8yrs of playing.

[JRingold]

That would be really cool but theres not enough mags around here to do that. I've seen less than 5 mags in 8yrs of playing.

Yeah, but if you live in Minnesota, Wisconsin or Illinois, they are all over the place. The last scenario game I played, I was surprised at the number of mags on the field...

If I keep going at the rate I am, I'll just buy enough for the team and just have to find people willing to shoot them with me...

[NukeGoose]

The guy isn't talking about cheater ramping. I don't know of any of you have ever played a tournament that uses PSP style ramping... but let me tell you that it is a HUGE advantage, no matter what other people that have never played that kind of a tournament may tell you. Sure, I can stand up by a chrono and rip off 15 BPS when I'm trying to shoot as fast as I can... but when you're running and shooting off the break with your off hand, trying to keep a count of how many people on the other team are running your side and where they're going, it's very very hard to keep a consistant stream. When the ref drops his arm and yells 'go', it's nice to not have to worry about shooting fast. I have played CFOA events this year, and its flat out sucks using a revvy (I had to for Atlanta, our new boards weren't in yet). The CFOA is not like a small local tournament, it is the third largest tournament series in the States (behind NPPL and PSP) and the competition is tough.

Aren't there Predator boards available for the E/X Mag? This board would have the correct mode to use.

As far as everything else (gear and whatnot), I say use what you're used to, not what others think that you should to look 'agg'. Rock your own style.

[blykins]

The guy isn't talking about cheater ramping. I don't know of any of you have ever played a tournament that uses PSP style ramping... but let me tell you that it is a HUGE advantage, no matter what other people that have never played that kind of a tournament may tell you. Sure, I can stand up by a chrono and rip off 15 BPS when I'm trying to shoot as fast as I can... but when you're running and shooting off the break with your off hand, trying to keep a count of how many people on the other team are running your side and where they're going, it's very very hard to keep a consistant stream. When the ref drops his arm and yells 'go', it's nice to not have to worry about shooting fast. I have played CFOA events this year, and its flat out sucks using a revvy (I had to for Atlanta, our new boards weren't in yet). The CFOA is not like a small local tournament, it is the third largest tournament series in the States (behind NPPL and PSP) and the competition is tough.

Aren't there Predator boards available for the E/X Mag? This board would have the correct mode to use.

As far as everything else (gear and whatnot), I say use what you're used to, not what others think that you should to look 'agg'. Rock your own style.

Yeah I ordered a predator board for my xmag. Just waiting on the 50orders so they can begin production. I was like order#42 i think so were pretty close.

[Aslan]

I am trying to do a tryout for a team for CFOA and the guy is saying that since my Xmag doesnt have ramping, i need to sell it and get a shocker/dm4 that has ramping. Should i tell this guy to STFU or what?

Cool thread, I've had the same question myself after watching some speedball teams practice. Alot of people say they could win with pumps, or Spyders, even Talons because it's more about skill than the gun you're using. But in speedball (woodsball they might have a point), I just couldn't see it...I mean there was so much paint going back and forth it was crazy...PILES of unbroken balls in the corners of the field...it was nuts. These guys were carrying like 8-10 pods and the back guys were going through nearly all of them! :wow:

[blykins]

This is a reason I like NPPL, b/c its the player shooting, not some electronic board assisting them. I know theres rampers in NPPL, you could clearly hear it in Tampa, but that is something that is going to happen whether there is a ramping rule or not.

[PaintNoob]

What is ramping?

[ntn4502]

its when you jump your bike off a ramp

[blykins]

its when you jump your bike off a ramp

Napoleon Dynamite ramps

[JoshK]

What is ramping?


Ramping is when an electronic marker is programed to shoot more than one shot per a trigger pull after you get up to a certain BPS (balls per second)...this is usually to gain an un-fair advantage on the competition.

And you two (ntn4502 and blykins) just acted like complete biggets. I know that you truely arn't, but you did. He asked a serious question and you made a joke of it.

[blykins]

Ramping is when an electronic marker is programed to shoot more than one shot per a trigger pull after you get up to a certain BPS (balls per second)...this is usually to gain an un-fair advantage on the competition.

And you two (ntn4502 and blykins) just acted like complete biggets. I know that you truely arn't, but you did. He asked a serious question and you made a joke of it.

Having a sense of humor must be a bad thing. :(

[JoshK]

Not when he is asking a serious question. Sorry if I was harsh or anything. It's just been a long day for me.

[blykins]

Not when he is asking a serious question. Sorry if I was harsh or anything. It's just been a long day for me.

*hands you a coke and a smile* :)

[68magOwner]

umm, not necessarily, my team played a tournament that followed psp ruled, and, we just capped our markers at 14bps semi rather than ramp, and, we ended up taking first (then we got bumped from first to third, AFTER we already got first, because one of our players chronoed hot (which, was done wrong, suppossed to be the average of 3 shots, and be under 300, he shot 285, 287, 306, and got the penalty, the ref didnt average the shots (later on, the ref was told that he had done it wrong by the guy who owned the field (who, happens to be the captian of baultamore trauma))) ANYWAY, yeah, can do fine with semi, but, if you can use ramping, its convient (i prefer playing uncapped semi, but, for PSP style events, use ramping)

[usmc8892]

I was a serious threat with my Minimag recently that has minimal ups...

[VFX_Fenix]

Ramping in its own way helps to level the playing field, I know this isn't much of a "help" to most but it's the way things are.

Actually the biggest advantage to something like Ramping is seen in a limited PBS format (such as the PSP/NXL/ABCDEFG/you get the idea). Because of the way software works it is practically impossible for anyone, no matter how fast they may actually be, to achieve 15bps with the MROF of the gun set at 15bps. This is the inherent fault of the limited bps system. The only way to achieve MROF is through either shot buffering or ramping.

So in a serries which is a limited ROF, Ramping/Buffering are certainly going to be employed to see players reaching the MROF that serries allows.

Besides, you have 3.2 software, don't you have some shot buffering/debounce settings you can monkey with to help you "get up to speed" as it were if they think you aren't fast enough? Granted, using debounce/filter settings to achieve higher ROF's is a more dangerous route as it can lead to a runaway gun which no one wants.

All in all, it's easier to lane/put down paint with ramping but it isn't "required" to win tournaments which allow such an enhanced firing mode.

Also, you could just Morlock/Pred your X-Mag and save yourself some $$$ possibly by going that route since it isn't like X-Mags are exactly in production atm.

Stick to your guns, if you need the extra firepower, drop the cash on a chip or a flash or something, personally I'd keep the X-Mag... but that's the gun whore in me. :ninja:

[BigEvil]

Get the Predator Emag board from TAG. It should will be out soon.

www.tagsportz.com

[tony3]

Cfoa uses the 15bps cap with no ramping, so if you can cap it at that you are all good. I'd get a predator 2 for your xmag though to upgrade it, much better programming.

[JoshK]

*hands you a coke and a smile* :)

Thanks. :)

[mcdkid]

alright, we are getting more GA guys.

[-=Squid=-]

8 years of experience doesnt usually mean much in the tourney scene.

Can anyone say why?

[JoshK]

8 years of experience doesnt usually mean much in the tourney scene.

Can anyone say why?

Because tourny as we know it hasn't been around for 8 years? :)

[-=Squid=-]

Because tourny as we know it hasn't been around for 8 years? :)
Exactly, and most of these players haven't adapted to it, and/or don't want to.

[JoshK]

Exactly, and most of these players haven't adapted to it, and/or don't want to.

Yes! I'm right. Thank you for your imput Squid. :)

[-=Squid=-]

Yes! I'm right. Thank you for your imput Squid. :)
Any time.

[Target Practice]

oh hay look another pseudo-intellectual thread about paintball i better show how thoughtful i am ramping is bad cheating sucks

[blykins]

8 years of experience doesnt usually mean much in the tourney scene.

Can anyone say why?

so your saying a newb w/ 1yr playing pball has more experience than a player thats played pball for 8yrs? Pball is pball. Tourny or not. Frankly i'm just tired of goign to the field and seeing 13yr olds who think they are hot *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep* w/ their mommy bought dm4/shocker/whatever. I want to get into tournies to get away from that beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Tournies are more serious about playing rather than the beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep i see when I try to enjoy a weekend of pballing.


Get the Predator Emag board from TAG. It should will be out soon.

www.tagsportz.com

It is already out, i've ordered it. They have to get 50 orders before they can begin production. I was order #42 or so so it should be a few weeks b4 #50 is ordered and they can start sending the boards out.

*Thank goodness the FCC doesn't monitor this board, the cursing fines would be tremendous....Army*

[-=Squid=-]

I don't think it would be possible to tell you how far above your head the point went.


*The personal attack is childish. Don't push your luck again. Army*

[50 cal]

Sure you need ramping...........if you have no game!!

That's what I tell people. It never fails to tick them off.

[blykins]

Sure you need ramping...........if you have no game!!

That's what I tell people. It never fails to tick them off.

Honestly thats how I see it. People who DONT ramp get more respect from me b/c its THEM shooting fast, not some board helping out.

[blykins]

I don't think it would be possible to tell you how far above your head the point went.




Thats why you make yourself aware of the rules before you play. :)

[Lohman446]

Ramping does represent an advantage in play - at certain levels. However, 90% of paintballers are not on a level of skill to take advantage of ramping. Thats why these discussions get old as I hear people who can't shoot with any accuracy to begin with (this would include me) tell about how much ramping influences there game. Sorry if your stream of 5BPS going past me a foot away or when I'm tucked in isn't hitting me, nor is your 15BPS. Now on the levels where people are better at moving, and stopping moves is more imporant... maybe NXL style and D1 then it matters... but to the level most of us play at.. its easier to blame our equipment than admit we have less skill than the other team.

[-=Squid=-]

Thats why you make yourself aware of the rules before you play. :)
What are you talking about?

[paint magnet]

Ok he said hes going to let me tryout, but that if I make the team, im gonna have to get some "agg" gear. Whatever that means. :rolleyes:

Why bother with this idiot? I don't even think I'd play on the same team as someone who told me I needed to buy "agg" gear, or that I needed to buy anything, for that matter. You can spend all the money buying the latest gadgets that you want, but none of it makes up for experience or skill.

An Xmag is crazy fast as it is, and you'll have no problem pulling and maintaining 15 bps in hybrid mode. That's assuming you feel like you have to shoot that fast.


Honestly thats how I see it. People who DONT ramp get more respect from me b/c its THEM shooting fast, not some board helping out.

There are other ways of making the gun shoot faster than you're pulling the trigger (like bounce), so just because someone's shooting fast without ramping doesn't mean they're actually pulling the trigger that fast.

[Blazestorm]

Honestly thats how I see it. People who DONT ramp get more respect from me b/c its THEM shooting fast, not some board helping out.

I've given up on caring about ramping, you should too.

I witnessed a guy w/ a ramping A4 fly, so blatant it wasn't even funny, it literally took off at 25bps, he was shooting the last guy left and took 50+ shots and hit him once in the back. The refs pulled him out afterwords, but ya... kinda funny.

I play in Semi for the most part now, sometimes if I get bored I go into triple-shot. Much easier to shoot faster. (Basically PSP but slightly easier to shoot faster)

[blykins]

What are you talking about?

you said the rules would go over my head. They wouldnt if I read the rulebook. Playing w/out knowing the rules is not a good idea.

[-=Squid=-]

you said the rules would go over my head. They wouldnt if I read the rulebook. Playing w/out knowing the rules is not a good idea.
Oh the irony.

That's not what I said at all.

[nt2004]

Ramping doesnt seem necessary, but it does make things easier. Things like shooting left-handed for uncoordinated people like me. That being said, I dont actually use it in games

[CKY_Alliance]

Cfoa uses the 15bps cap with no ramping, so if you can cap it at that you are all good. I'd get a predator 2 for your xmag though to upgrade it, much better programming.

I thought cfoa was first 3 semi then you can ramp up to 15....correct me if im wrong.

and as far as i know they have surpassed the required amount of preorders for the emag pred boards.

[Lenny]

Check the urban dictionary...... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=agg

Ha ha! I love the 4th one: "dude, that camo tank cover is agg." :spit_take

I just find that funny. I don't know anyone that uses a camo tank cover. Hell, I don't even know a pro shop that sells them! :rofl: Ok, ok, I'm done I swear... almost... :clap:

[blykins]

Oh the irony.

That's not what I said at all.

Ok mr. e-thug... :rolleyes:

[JoshK]

Wow...just wow blykins. You took his words COMPLETLY out of context. That's why he said the meaning of HIS POST went over your head.

[blykins]

Wow...just wow blykins. You took his words COMPLETLY out of context. That's why he said the meaning of HIS POST went over your head.

Great observation! *hands you a cookie* :)

[JoshK]

Thanks.

/me takes the cookie to his special corner and nibbles on it.

[ottomobile]

Dude, if you can't hit them in the first one or two shots. the next twenty aren't going to make a difference. Ramping sucks. Its like training wheels for your marker. Grow up, be a man about it and shoot as fast as you can move your finger. Don't blame the machine cause your body can't keep up. I've kept guys bunkered with everything from an F4 to Angel. You don't need 20 balls a second to keep a guy down, they can't run that fast!
Any idot can spend the money and shoot fast. It takes skills to make those shots count and the other guy's not.

Dude, keep your marker and spend the grand you would've spent on a piece of junk Shocker and hire a personal trainer to get your butt in shape. That'll make more of a difference than how fast you can throw paint.

Men make the marker. Not the other way around.


And since when is 8 years experience not enough? 8 years in any other major sport will put you near to retirment! And unless the team you are joining has a 7 figure signing bonus they've got no business telling you what gear to play with.

Well, that's my rant. Viva la old-school! :shooting:



---Ottomobile---
Warped Slide trigger Autococker
Warped Automag RT
Haloed Stock Impulse
P-68 MAGNUM

[Josh2Xtremes]

Perhaps since we're talking CFOA a CFOA promoter who has shot mags for years can help you out. Just as an FYI, both the owner of the league and I have been shooting mags for years and there will always be a warm fuzzy place (not telling you where) for them. That said...

For 2005 the CFOA, presented by National Paintball Supply, adopted a new set of gun rules that must be adhered-to by any CFOA player, the most publicised of which was our rate of fire cap, with similar caps later adopted by other leagues and series like the PSP, Millennium, etc. Our cap is a straight 15bps across the board, enforced by paid referees with Pact timers on every field of play over which paintball guns are fired at random, before and after games. I've caught players shooting in excess of 20bps at some of our events and in some cases teams have played a man down the remainder of their events and/or endured major penalty points. In our fast-paced, X-Ball-style format (5-man on official X-Ball fields from Sup Air), bring all the gun you can legally bring in order to give yourself every chance of winning. If your paintball gun can pass our series of tests, including bump tests, rate of fire, ceasing fire when the trigger is released, etc...take it on the field, play ball and have fun. Learn and study our rulebook's statements on the matter to more clearly understand what is and is not legal in the CFOA so that our rules can serve to PROTECT and ASSIST you, rather than work AGAINST you.

My opinion? Most of the winning teams in the CFOA during this great season, including Runnin' Wild, Authority, etc, bring some mean machines to shoot paint at you with, but they're all legal to the letter of our rules. I'd have no problem taking my E or XMag into a game in the CFOA because they always work and never chop paint. That at 11 or 12 bps beats the heck out of a ramping chipper-shredder any day of the week, but if you're not confident in your ability to win with such a piece of equipment, maybe a board or a chip or whatever from one of our great and valued sponsors, TAG, might be the ticket for you. Good luck and we'd love to see you in the CFOA.
Josh

Joshua D. Silverman
Sponsorship Coordinator and Media Liaison, CFOA
www.thecfoa.com
www.joshuasilverman.com

[CKY_Alliance]

so basically as long as you dont shoot over 15 you can shoot that speed however you want..if it be ramping,or semi or did i completely misunderstand you?

[NukeGoose]

The people that run the CFOA don't come out and specifically state that ramping is legal due to liability reasons, but it is. They definate a legal gun as a gun that passes certain tests:
1. Can't be over 15 BPS (which means under .066 second gap between shots on the PACT timer)
2. Cannot fire when given a small bump to the back of the gun/tank
3. Must fire three shots when the trigger is pulled three times, and after a one second break in shooting, must fire the next three shots with the trigger being pulled three times
4. No full auto guns
5. Guns must stop firing after the trigger is released.

I'm just naming these off the top of my head so some may be a bit off, but they do not state that the gun must operate in a semi-only fashion. So, even though it's not stated outright, ramping is allowed - you can tell this when the ref checks your gun over the timer and is pulling 6 pulls/second with one finger and the gun is shooting 15 BPS, and he hands you the gun back and says "you're fine".

[-=Squid=-]

Thanks.

/me takes the cookie to his special corner and nibbles on it.
Don't eat his weiner cookies.

[Lenny]

Well, that's my rant. Viva la old-school! :shooting:



---Ottomobile---


Heck ya big brotha mutha fu**a! Pump and stock rule! (though if semi, cockers or mags rule!) :shooting:

Also, didn't they have a 13 bps rule at one point? That's why the Hyperframes won't shoot faster than that. What happened to that rule? I think the 15bps rule will fall through just like the 13bps one.

[SpitFire1299]

Get the Predator Emag board from TAG. It should will be out soon.

www.tagsportz.com

Agreed. It has ramping, and will kick ***.

[cioeboy]

you should just try out and if you do good he'll know u dont need "agg" gear to be a good player :cheers:

[68magOwner]

Because of the way software works it is practically impossible for anyone, no matter how fast they may actually be, to achieve 15bps with the MROF of the gun set at 15bps. This is the inherent fault of the limited bps system. The only way to achieve MROF is through either shot buffering or ramping.

yeah, this is the case with some boards, when i played capped semi, my marker had shot buffering, so, it was consistent, but, it would be terribly annoying for the marker to skip shots every time u went over 15

[VFX_Fenix]

Well I wasn't really talking about missing shots because the shooter is actually shooting faster than 15bps all the time (say this magical person can pull 300cps) but rather what most of us CAN do and that's inadvertently spike above 15cps by performing two trigger taps very close together while the average bps is still only, let's say 10bps. That one shot would effectively be lost because of the way most bps cap software works (reads pulls after a certain refractory period).

In an extreme case you'll end up with a really bizzare bursting pattern when your trigger pulls happen to syncronize with the read windows then a slowing down when they're out of sync. Personally I'm fine with BPS Caps, I'm actually curious how the NPPL is going to handle its implimentation of the 15bps cap (got it from an NPPL Ref, they're looking at having the rule in place by Miami). I just hope that people who are subject to the rules of a BPS Cap have the option of at least using some form of shot buffering to limit the "impedance" of the cap itself.

I'm not claiming to be able to shoot really fast, according to most guns I've shot that have ROF displays the best I can do is 14 at a peak and around 10 to 12 consistantly depending on the gun/trigger/etc. Unless its on an Ego, but I question the factory settings a little since, if the gun wasn't adding shots somehow, I'm apparently able to yank over 17bps ( :rofl: ) and it certainly sounded like it. :shooting: Anyway, I know from trying to shoot on a 13bps capped board that I was losing trigger pulls all over the place, it almost felt like I was missing every 3rd shot. With buffering software that wouldn't happen as much.

[WARPED1]

In todays events, you need the ramping to compete, even the Division 3 teams.

[ottomobile]

I disagree. Superior tactics will win against superior firepower. Unlimited strings of paint lets you keep the guy down where you think he is but you are so focused on that one spot you are toast if he does something unexpected. His balls are going the same muzzle speed as yours no matter how fast you shoot and if he pops up high, low or somewhere you don't expect him you'll be out by the time you react. You may think you have the advantage but it really goes both ways. While you have him bunkered you are giving him time to think and you position. 2-or-3 bps snap/burst shooting is every bit as effective as 15 bps.

Its a misconception that a faster gun is going to make you better. A DM4 in the hands of newbie may make him shoot fast but he's still gonna get tagged out every game. Why? Because his game sucks. He doesn't know tactics, positioning, aiming, communicating or any of the other skills needed to be a good player. You need to learn how to be good at paintball without a gun first. Then, once you have skills, a you'll be able to take advantage of all that a high-end gun offers. I've seen pros who win tourneys with Spyders and Tippmanns. Speed is only one factor. Consistancy, efficiency, weight and accuracy are more important factors to consider. And not all top end guns are created equal.

In my opinion, put the cap back at 13bps. Ramping modes are ruining Speed/Hyper ball and replacing strategy with BFI (Brute force and ignorance)

[NukeGoose]

You can get away with nothing but a fast gun if you're playing newbs on rec-ball days... but if you want to compete in a competitive tournament series, you need to bring your A-game. I always hear people (especially on AO) talk about how a newb with a fast gun will always get destroyed by an experienced player with a low end gun. Well, guess what? I'm an experienced tournament player (I play amateur/open level tournaments, and practice one or two times every single week) and I have a fast gun, and every once in a while I will get tagged if I play walkons by some beginner with a spyder. If you fire paint through an area, there's always a chance that someone will step into it, especially OTB.

Any player has a chance at getting any other player out, it just increases with skill and equipment. When someone talks about ramping guns in tournaments, they're usually not talking about newbs with expensive guns versus experiened people without them. In general, you'll find two evenly matched teams, and many players will take every small advantage to put them over the top.

No, you cannot keep a good person 'bunkered' with one fast gun - there are two sides to every bunker (and some you can come over the top). On a tall bunker, people can snap out low if you're putting paint up high - although snap shooting is becoming a dead art in tournament play, it's better to switch sides and use your gun in a different zone unless you absolutely must control a certain lane. To put it simply, if you're in there looking at nothing but the back of your bunker, you're probably not being effective - and in 5-man play, it's important to have as many guns up as possible.

If I'm putting 15 BPS by your ear, you're not going to snap out there. But even 10 BPS will keep most people from coming out that side, and 5 BPS is enough to lock down a certain spot on a bunker (keep someone from coming out high, or low - but you can't usually lock down both).

Do ramping guns have a place on rec-ball saturdays? Hell no. Do they have a place in tournaments? Yes. I wish that we could go back to everyone playing fair and everyone using semi-auto with no bounce... but that's not going to happen, no matter how much pissing and moaning you (or I) do. Paintball is changing, and you can either deal with it or leave. I hear too many people talk about how it's the man, not the machine, that matters in a game, then they walk out hit complaining about how the other team's ramping guns were the only reason that they lost. A team with a solid game plan (think Dynasty, when they used Angels and 12v Revvies) will always do well, but having fast guns is a huge advantage.

[Aslan]

Do ramping guns have a place on rec-ball saturdays? Hell no. Do they have a place in tournaments? Yes. I wish that we could go back to everyone playing fair and everyone using semi-auto with no bounce... but that's not going to happen, no matter how much pissing and moaning you (or I) do. Paintball is changing, and you can either deal with it or leave. I hear too many people talk about how it's the man, not the machine, that matters in a game, then they walk out hit complaining about how the other team's ramping guns were the only reason that they lost. A team with a solid game plan (think Dynasty, when they used Angels and 12v Revvies) will always do well, but having fast guns is a huge advantage.

Amen. Sometimes I hear people talk about how they can win tournaments with Pirhannas or a Black Maxx or something. Then you ask them what they use and they say, oh, I have an Angel wiht a blah blah blah board shooting 25bps...etc.... So you "can" win with a $40 gun...but since ya got an extra $4000 to throw around...ya figure what the hay!? :hail: :confused: :hail:

I'm not too concerned. I hold my own with what I got. Maybe I have to get an E-Mag or Shocker or Ion to enter the tournament ranks...but for woodsball, rec ball, and scenario games...so far I've held my own with far less, tactics, camoflage, and common sense. I thought I'd enter a 3-man tourney with some friends just to see how we'd do against tourney level players/markers...but the tournament turned out to be rookie/novice rather than "rookie"...which I've heard means it'll probably be stacked with serious competition. Plus, it turned out to be 5-man rather than 3-man so I'd be short players. Oh well...I'll keep my eyes open for a real rookie 3-man and maybe talk my buddies into it...it'd be interesting even if we get smoked. :shooting:

[Lenny]

My team and I are playing in a 3 man tourney series in Chardon, OH (we're ranked in 4th overall, Team 80 Proof). We play Division B (blowback and mech cockers only) mainly because there's too much cheating in the Division A. They just banned ramping at the tourney, I'm so glad. I like to play against people, not just thier markers. :shooting: