Major Superbolt problem

[Dave]

Today has not been fun....I thought it would be, seeing as though I would get out the Retro mag w/superbolt, but I chopped ALL morning long!!!
I tried to figure out the problem...chop....cleaned the gun...chop...cleaned again....chop. Now I looked inside the feed tube, and I saw the bolt actually sticking out about 1/16-1/8 of an inch! then I gently put a ball down there, and the ball got stuck between the hole and the Superbolt tip! It was just enough for the ball to get hung up...

I am not sure about the 'longnose' thing, all I know is, with the superbolt in my mag, the thing chopped like crazy, where as before, with my foamie, no chops. So then I decide to get the foamie and replace it, to see if that helps, and so I depressurize the mag, and try to pull it out. Nope, the valve is stuck. I have to find my wrench set to undo the allen screw and then the valve slides out, who knows what the on/off was caught up on...I know it wasn't the rail bushing, that was tucked all the way in the rail.

So I get the foamie on, and I don't clean my gun, so I can simulate the exact conditions with only the bolt being different. I shoot the mag, no chops. Then finally, about 30 shots later, a ball breaks due to all the paint in the feed from chopping before, and a ball breaks, and then the barrel gets messy....I know it was the barrel cause I would just drop a ball all the way down and fire and it would still break...not being able to shoot through the paint.

But now I am sad....I have a useless superbolt sitting on my table. I can't use it in my mag, it sticks out too far! There was nothing wrong with the spring...everything looked ok...Now I will clean out my mag totally...I have more paint, but it is being used in the paint test. When I am done with that paint, I will report what happened w/foamie VS. w/superbolt after my mag has been totally cleaned an oiled. Why was the superbolt designed to be this long. I can't use it now:(


-Dave

[Xzion]

That really sucks man... Ill go check mine right now, see if I notice the same thing, when I used it, it worked flawlessly, maybe you just have a rouge defective superbolt that slipped through the AGD quality Control.:(

[Dave]

Maybe, I'm not sure, but I do know that EVERY single time I used it, the gun chopped. It even chopped in the store when I got the retro. I wasn't shortstroking it when it chopped this time. If you look through the opening in the feed when you see which way the p/f plug is facing, look into the breech and see if you see the lip of the Superbolt sticking out.

-Dave

[Xzion]

Well, I looked at mine, and compaired it with my AGD long nose bolt, and the super bolt didnt stick out any further than the long nose one did, I'd suggest you either call AGD and talk to them, maybe it was just something that slipped past the QC, and can be replaced, or its just the derlin sleeve that is defective and you just need to replace the sleeve to solve your problem. I believe the sleeves are either available now, or at least -will- be available next week.

[PyRo]

Have you put it side by side with a stock bolt, and compaired? Maybie its not to long, and there is something else wrong.

[Maverick]

This is just an idea, but maybe the delrin sleeve is not installed on the bolt properly and has moved forward somehow. Is there any space showing at the back end of the bolt, between the delrin and the stainless steal? If so try pressing the sleeve back onto the bolt and see if this fixes your problem.

[Dave]

Well, I replaced the spring, and that moved the bolt back a little, but that is a temporary fix...AGD said to change spring when the spring got behind the bolt length, and that hadn't happened yet. Next time I go to Pev's I will talk to Rob about it. The Superbolt was significantly longer than my foamie.

-Dave

[Dave]

I was able to isolate the problem and can prove it was the superbolt making the balls break/chop. Here is what I did:

Totally cleaned and oiled mag. Cycled it many times.

Today, I loaded my hopper with about 100 paintballs, and had the Foamie bolt in my mag. I gassed her up, took her out on the deck, and shot around 50 balls in rapid succession. Not one ball broke, and all followed each other in a straight line with excellent consistency. It was a beautiful site.

Then, degassed the mag, took the valve out, replaced the Foamie with a lubricated Superbolt, and put it back together. Gassed her up, squeezed the trigger about 3 times, and.....

CCCCCHHHHOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


then again, chop...chop...chop....some shots got out ok through the paint, but I would say 60-75% broke or were chopped to peices....it was not a pretty sight seeing the split halfs come flying out in tiny shards among a misty spray of orange. I know for certain that it is the Superbolt and that I can't use it.

This is a serious problem. If you get the Superbolt, please oh please before you go out on the field, test it to make sure it doesn't mess things up. The way you can tell if it doesn't get a good fit is to look through the feed tube, through that little rectangular window, and look down into the breech...see the round hole where the ball falls into the breach? If you see any part of the Superbolt tip sticking out slightly from that hole, chances are it's gonna cause trouble. I am going to take my superbolt back and show Rob exactly what I am talking about...I tried scanning photos, but they were not of good enough quality to show the bolt extending past the hole.

Sadly...I don't think the Superbolt is gonna work for me:(

-Dave

[Xzion]

I still believe you just got a dud bolt that slipped through AGD QC, if it were a widespread problem, you wouldnt be the only one having this problem, see what rob says, then maybe try calling AGD, I wouldnt be surprised if they replaced it and solved the problem.... Id also maybe try getting a new derlin sleeve for it, as that really what determines the bolts length, worst comes to worst, you could always trim the boltface down a little, not sure what that would do to the gun, but it -might- solve your problem. and just incase, if you do try trimming it down, I take no responcibility if anything should go wrong :D

[Russ]

It's good that you isolated the problem. I find that if I chop a ball, I can NEVER just shoot through it, I always clean it out.

OK, now I'm going to get up on the soapbox for a minute...

If your gun was shooting fine with the foamie bolt, why change it in the first place. I know, I know, The SUPERBOLT, it's new, it MUST be better! If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as the saying goes!

Now I'll step down. Perhaps you just have a defective superbolt. I'm sure Pev's/Rob will take care of you. Good Luck. :)

[kilaueakid]

just sand the front end of the bolt down 1/16-1/8 of an inch with a belt sander!! That is if they are going to send you a new one for free!!!

[Magsrule3]

Well, Im not sure if this goes with the AGD Superbolt, but you aren't suppose to lubricate Delrin because it will cause it to swell, so that could be the reason why its bigger. I know with Indian Creek bolts like on the Bushmaster you aren't suppose to oil them cause they swell and they self-lubricate themselves.

[PyRo]

The derlin swelling would not have cause as significant of a problem as his most likely. Ive seen swollen derlin bolts for defiants, usually its only a few thousands of an inch, just enough not to let it fit in. What he has is more than that. I'm for the derlin sleeve unscrewing, or a bad bolt just slipping through. Just take it back where you got it or call agd, and i'm sure they will take care of it.

[Xzion]

Also, from what I understand, the derlin AGD uses is extremely high quality, and is impervious to oil and wont, or at least shouldnt swell with oil.

[Minimag4me]

try it without the oil, you shouuld never oil an automag bolt because when you fire it gets oil in the barrel/breach part and causes inaccuracy and other problems

[Russ]

just sand the front end of the bolt down 1/16-1/8 of an inch with a belt sander!!

HACK! Please don't do that. Shame on you, kilaueakid :)

[ben_JD]

I am having a similar problem to Dave's. My superbolt is not any longer than the previous bolt (foamie), but it will break balls like mad. This happens regardless of my ROF and frequently happens on the first shot. I have had this problem for two weekend in a row.

Is this that isolated?

[zads27]

Just got back from the field 15 minutes ago, my friend had the same problem.. but with the stock emag bolt! it protruded out into the breech area sometimes (more than normal), and he chopped a couple times.

When he gasses up his marker, the bolt won't stay back (gas down the barrel) until he reaches a certain input pressure.

The bolt being forward makes me think it's something sear or bolt spring related.. but the part about gassing up sounds like a powertube spacer problem.. what do you guys think?

[DrEvil]

i m havin similar troubles. and from what i ve read on other posts I think it is the power tube spacer. Some one said ( i dont remember who or which thread) to go to the next size smaller spacer.

[kilaueakid]

I know, I know...shame on me! Don't sand the front of the bolt! I was kidding. Did anyone try a different power tube spacer. Let's hear some feedback from the guys that were having problems.

[DrEvil]

i didnt change my spacer but it seems to have gone away. It ll stick every once and a while but I just take off the air and it frees up.

[AGD]

Russ,

I just saw this for the first time. Your sleeve might not be on all the way and it is possible that could slip through on the first batch. Go ahead and sand off the front of the bold and I will send you another sleeve no charge. Let's see if that fixes it.

AGD

[kilaueakid]

See....what did I tell ya!!! Sand the bolt!! :)
kila

[Dave]

did you for mean me to sand the bolt down? Well, I sent my gun in to Jon along with the superbolt and he will check it out and see whats up.

-Dave

[Dave]

hmmm, and I also have a belt sander:)

[BlackVCG]

ben_JD- Please call Jon at the AGD tech department for further assistance. I'm assuming the bolt sleeve isn't all the way on and you'll need to replace it or try sanding it down. Talk to Jon and see if he wants you to send in the gun and bolt or send you a replacement sleeve.

[Arand]

I just got my superbolt. I have the exact same problem. The bolt length is exactly the same as the regular extended nose bolt. But, for some reason, the superbolt will sit a bit higher up on the powertube. Balls will hang between the bolt and the barrel breach with the superbolt.

Anyone know how to make the bolt sit lower on the powertube? Seems to be some tolerance issues with some powertube/superbolt combos.

Suggestions are welcome. No I don't intend to sand the bolt. If it comes to that, I'd just return the bolt. The reduction in recoil is nice though.

Help!

Arand

[Arand]

I forgot to mention, that the delrin bolt sleave is fully on the metal base. No gap at all. Bolt length is exactly the same as regular bolt.

[z-zero]

I'm not a mag genius or anything, but maybe the lip at the bottom of the bolt that the sear catches is not as wide as a standard bolt. This would mean that the bolt may be the same length but it pushes out of the powertube farther before the sear catches the bolt lip? Just a thought.

z-zero

[Arand]

Checked that. The lip is the same. Take your regular bolt and have it sit on your powertube. Notice how it feels a bit springy sitting on the powertube? You can push it down on the powertube and it will move (with some resistance) toward the base of the bolt. This is what is different. The superbolt sits a bit higher.

Arand

[Drizit]

ok now it's time to start grasping at straws. is your bumper seated properly?, try replacing the power tube O-ring, it may be swollen. also are you one of those people who put an O-ring around the bolt piston? if so take it off.

[Dave]

Well, I sent my gun in with a description of the superbolt problem to Jon, so I should hopefully be getting some feedback from him, and I talked to Rob about it, and Rob said it was supposed to be that was, although I am not sure why, because it chopped like nuts. What you could do for now is to try tough paint and see if that helps.

-Dave

[Dave]

Arand is right, there is no slippage of the delrin at all. The superbolt is the extended nose variety. It sticks out about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch out of the hole where you can see it. I replaced the bolt spring, so I know it had nothing to do with that. My retro valve was also brand new and recently broken in, so nothing was worn out. A guy at pev's when I told Rob my problem said that they make the breech size larger than the paintball to allow for this kind of thing. Of couse they do, it gives the paintball maximum room to fall into the breech, but that doesn't mean that every single paintball is going to fall into the breach on the opposite side of the bolt. Some balls are going to come into contact with the bolt tip, and that slight delay could mean a chop. They get hung up on the bolt tip and then fall into the chamber. I did a test by rolling balls into the chamber, and after about 4 balls, one actually did get caught up on the bolt tip and breach wall. I was using .689 PMI paint. This is the dilemma. Perhaps AGD could look into it a little. Even if the superbolt only chops some paint and not others, do I want to run the risk of chopping paint just because the field I go to requires the use of a paint that is not a good match with the superbolt? As soon as I get word from Jon, I will let you know what I find out:)

-Dave

[Dave]

Tom has addressed this issue now in a classic post on the main forum. Check it out-

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19646

Thanks AGD!

-Dave