ICD ProMaster (AKA b2k5)

[RingOfScale]

So it looks like they finally got released...

Murder Inc has em for only 390, should I pick one up ?

http://www.murderincpaintball.com/page.php?pg=product&id1=&id3=1&product_id=191

-ring

[ojhspyro89]

Wait a few weeks and they will probably go down. OR save some cash and pick up a used b2k4 with chaos and PDS. The only thing with the new one is that its got milling and no tray.

I mean if ya need a new gun, heck ya, those things are pretty nice.

[WARPED1]

$390? Nice, I'll see how much I can get them for. :wow:

[RingOfScale]

Ojh, the b2k5 comes with PDS already, and I'm pretty sure it has a board at least as good as the chaos. (I remember reading this thing somewhere that made a big point about the board in the new b2k5s ... I think it has PSP, NPPL, and NXL ramping and stuff on it already, and the guns been tested cycling at 40 bps, so its plenty fast...)

[SpitFire1299]

The gun looks, sounds, and seems really cool. I would buy it, but i have way to many guns right now. ICD makes really nice reliable guns. :)

[WenULiVeUdiE]

One of the surprsing things is the weight of it. Manike said it weighed less than a Ripper 2.
I'm thinking about getting one. But then I look at the Cyborg and...../drool

[NoForts4Me]

Does anyone here remember the original Line SI Promaster? I owned one in 1992, and think it is an unfortunate name choice. If you remembers the old Promasters, you'll know why I say that. However, I think the gun looks very promising. I just picked up a B2K3.5 with Chaos board, so I won't be buying one anytime soon, but maybe a used one in a year or so if they are much more problem free than the old Promasters.

[DWill]

Why should the name have any bearing on its reliability?

Edit: oh and I think I might pick one of those up too :D

[NoForts4Me]

I don't think the name will have any bearing on the reliability, but you don't see any car companies releasing a new car named the Pacer, do you? If you would have owned one of the originals, you'd understand. I'm not knocking the new ones...heck, I own an ICD gun! I just would have named it something else. Apparently I am the only one that remembers them...getting old I guess! :( :p

[WARPED1]

I had 2 Line SI Promasters. I loved the quick barrel release.

[RingOfScale]

ight, lets rename the gun for them.

My vote is

"AirBunkerMaster"

get it ... yah know ... bushmaster for oldschool woodsball... airbunker master for new speedball...

okay its incredibly corny

but i like it !

ABM for short.

they could just never tell anyone what the acronym means.

-ring

[minimag03]

I think this marker is the best for the money all the way up to the very high ends. The Ion is close, but I'd spend the extra $80 for this.

[manike]

Vids for you guys....

http://www.harbtech.com/crap/promaster.wmv

http://www.icdpaintball.com/icd05/images/video/Promaster_High.mov

Same thing, I think, but hosted elsewhere...

http://www.harbtech.com/icd/promaster_high.mov

And on ICD's website...

http://www.icdpaintball.com/icd05/marker_promaster.asp

It weighs 1.997lbs out of the box with the regulator but without the barrel...

[warbeak2099]

OMFG! That's gotta be ramping in the vids. Does it really come with nxl/psp/cfoa/etc. modes?

[manike]

Yes it is ramping, and yes it comes with all those modes.

[Athius]

Finally it has been release im gonna check how much a friend of mine can get them.

By the way why the hell they dont use stainless steel screws goddammit!!!!! :mad:

[Boydster]

The name Pro Master reminds me of a fishing pole.

Is this Pro Master thing a sear tripper? If it is, wouldn't that make the Ion better? Sorry, I'm a little confused about the whole electro business.

[NoForts4Me]

Is this Pro Master thing a sear tripper? If it is, wouldn't that make the Ion better? Sorry, I'm a little confused about the whole electro business.It's not a sear tripper. Maybe manike can enlighten us on if it's better than the ION (I assume he's shot both). On paper, it's better out of the box, but also $100 more.

[manike]

It's definitely not a sear tripper, it works similary to the previous bushmasters, which means it works like Angels, Intimidators and Ego's etc....

It also comes with QEV inside as stock. :)

I'm not unbiased so it would be better if other people were to compare it to the Ion rather than I. :rofl:

I lent mine to two friends with Ions... they are now buying Promasters and getting rid of their Ions...

[RingOfScale]

damn. I gotta get my hands on one of these.

Manike, what upgrades would you sugest? How are the stock regs?

-rIng

[black tri star]

it looks good except that funky ASA on the front. they could have at least milled that ugly block on the front. but other than that it is a very sexy gun, I wonder if it will accept aftermarket parts from previous models, because if so, I might have to strip my bushy and preform a mild overhaul on this one

[RingOfScale]

I was thinking if I got one I'd try and throw an Acid Customs vert frame + trigger on it, maybe get a new hpr, clamping feedneck, and barrel kit. That would be an awsome set up.
Granted, by then you would have spent like 750, and coulda gotten a much "higher end" gun instead, but considering that price includes a 200 dollar barrel kit, and any hpr of your choice etc, I think its a fine price.

[WARPED1]

So far I've had nothing but horrid luck with any ICD gun, and I've owned them all except the Freestyle. Even Pumas and Alley Cats.......... so I'm leary of buying this gun.

[Gumbe]

seeing that video makes me want one..but i wont get one.......for now.....maybe in 3 months when i get bored of my new toy

[Pha|anx]

No more spring returned bolt?

[manike]

No more spring returned bolt?

There never was with the Bushmaster series of guns (what this is based off). Maybe you were thinking of the BKO?

The Promaster takes many of the same parts as the old Bushmasters. Valves, bolts, feednecks. etc, but takes the new board, trigger and detents of the freestyle. It's also cocker threaded.

[Boydster]

Now that I hear it's cocker threaded, I am REALLY interested. I just got an Autococker Stiffi barrel, and I really didn't want to have to resort to a barrel adapter.

How well does the Bushmaster series run on CO2? I can get HPA at the field, but if I'm not at the field the only type of air I have available is CO2.

[RingOfScale]

manike, the ICD website says Timmy threads ....

U sure on the cocker threads?

-rIng


EDIT: found the list of specs

Low Pressure operation
Threaded low-rise vertical feed tube
Quick Pull pin for easy field-stripping
On/Off Indicating LED
Adjustable Balls Per Second
4-Way Adjustable Trigger
Battery and board in grip for easy access
Wrap-around Rubber grip panels
Accepts standard 45 grip panels
12" ported barrel with Timmy threads
Paintball Detection System
Easy Cleaning ball detent
Delrin Bolt
Accepts standard duckbills and drop forwards
Extremely low profile

[gc82000]

from what I understand Timmy and cocker threaded barrels are the same. I know somw guys that use kaner kits from Karnivores on their timmys.

[bballe336]

yeah intimidators use cocker threads. they are the same. the bushmaster has had cocker thread since 2k3.5. and the bushy will NOT run on co2. it is an actual electro pneumatic gun. this means that unlike an emag (where you can run co2) all of the gases go through the solenoid. co2 will ruin the solenoid very quickly and your gun will not work. that is an 80 dollar repair.

[Teamslayer76]

Timmy's or Intimidators use Autococker threads. But this gun looks sweet. It's really just the B2k5 right? Shoots awsome too. Loving the PSP NXL support, oh and NPPL too. And the price is great. :) Hoooray for ICD!

[Mind'sEye]

So far I've had nothing but horrid luck with any ICD gun, and I've owned them all except the Freestyle. Even Pumas and Alley Cats.......... so I'm leary of buying this gun.

Wow! That's extraordinary. I've never encountered someone who couldn't get the B2K to shoot reliably after some minor tuning.

[WARPED1]

manike, the ICD website says Timmy threads ....

U sure on the cocker threads?

-rIng


EDIT: found the list of specs

Low Pressure operation
Threaded low-rise vertical feed tube
Quick Pull pin for easy field-stripping
On/Off Indicating LED
Adjustable Balls Per Second
4-Way Adjustable Trigger
Battery and board in grip for easy access
Wrap-around Rubber grip panels
Accepts standard 45 grip panels
12" ported barrel with Timmy threads
Paintball Detection System
Easy Cleaning ball detent
Delrin Bolt
Accepts standard duckbills and drop forwards
Extremely low profile
Intimidators use cocker barrels duh. :tard:

[Athius]

For those who are buying this marker dont put any "upgrades" leave it like it is. Just change the barrel and put a clamping feed neck thats all or maybe a new trigger too.

Yes i have a bushy stock was perfect but i wanted to "upgrade" and it never perform any better than when it had everything stock.

Since then i dont upgrade my markers i leave them stock the only thing i change is the barrel, board and the feedneck(if it is not clamping). But regs, valves and bolts i leave the stock ones.

IF IT WORKS DONT :cuss: FIX IT!

[WARPED1]

For those who are buying this marker dont put any "upgrades" leave it like it is. Just change the barrel and put a clamping feed neck thats all or maybe a new trigger too.

Yes i have a bushy stock was perfect but i wanted to "upgrade" and it never perform any better than when it had everything stock.

Since then i dont upgrade my markers i leave them stock the only thing i change is the barrel, board and the feedneck(if it is not clamping). But regs, valves and bolts i leave the stock ones.

IF IT WORKS DONT :cuss: FIX IT!
WHOA! A smart paintballer! :)

[Athius]

WHOA! A smart paintballer! :)


Thanks. :D

[FallNAngel]

and the bushy will NOT run on co2. it is an actual electro pneumatic gun. this means that unlike an emag (where you can run co2) all of the gases go through the solenoid.

... since when can you use CO2 on an EMag?

[WARPED1]

... since when can you use CO2 on an EMag?
Ummmmmm...........never.

[DarkMag722]

Yo can someone lend me I dunno 400$. But its for a good cause I really need to get a new ProMaster.

[funeralplanner]

Can anyone say what the main difference between the k4 and the k5 is?

I can get a k4 for 279. Why would I get a k5?

Thanks for the help.

FP

Oh, and how is the efficiency on these guns?

[slade]

Can anyone say what the main difference between the k4 and the k5 is?

I can get a k4 for 279. Why would I get a k5?

Thanks for the help.

FP

Oh, and how is the efficiency on these guns?
its smaller (no tray), looks MUCH better, has break beam eyes, ramping/modes... maybe some more stuff, just compare the specs of the b2k4 vs the b2k5. personally, id say that the extra money is worth it, especially if you wait a bit for the price to drop.

efficiency... probably about average. most likely better than a mag or freestyle.

[WARPED1]

The Promaster is definately the best ICD gun deal right now.

[VFX_Fenix]

There never was with the Bushmaster series of guns (what this is based off). Maybe you were thinking of the BKO?

The Promaster takes many of the same parts as the old Bushmasters. Valves, bolts, feednecks. etc, but takes the new board, trigger and detents of the freestyle. It's also cocker threaded.

The Bushmasters have always had a Spring in the ram to push the bolt forward when it isn't gassed up so that it closes the breech. The Spring in question though had no significant role in the actual operation of the B2K line. The BKO on the other hand does in fact have a spring to return the bolt as has been mentioned ^^^^.



How well does the Bushmaster series run on CO2? I can get HPA at the field, but if I'm not at the field the only type of air I have available is CO2.

The Bushmaster series of guns will operate fine on CO2 provided that certain steps are taken with your gas set-up. The addition of a Palmer Female Stab to the current gas system regulated down to around 100psi above operating pressure of the HPR along with an Anti-Syphon CO2 tank should be sufficient to keep your Bushmaster shooting happily up to 13-14 bps. Have Blue has had his Bushmaster set-up to use CO2 for a number of years and last I knew continued to support the use of CO2 on Bushmasters as well as other LP Guns with a dual regulator set-up.

[stondroopy]

it looks good except that funky ASA on the front.

I agree, it looks good but maybe a rounded asa would look a lil nicer. Hmm DC or jmj?

O.T. Does this gun get you gitty or is just another paintball gun? just curious is all

[slade]

I agree, it looks good but maybe a rounded asa would look a lil nicer. Hmm DC or jmj?

O.T. Does this gun get you gitty or is just another paintball gun? just curious is all
DC :cool:

actually it does get me excited, even though i most likely wont be getting one. thats because after my freestyle ive been converted to an ICD fanboy. i already know that ICD makes quality guns, then the promaster stock has no tray (making it smaller) its the hottest B2K/BKO yet (i think all the others looked sort of ugly) it has eyes, freestyle accessories (so it will be interchangeable with my freestyle) and a board with modes (my local field just told me saturday that they allow any modes/ramping... just incase i decide to use them.) plus it has a great price. i may have to pick up one used.

[funeralplanner]

Well, I just bought one, so I'll let u know how I like it.....

If my wife finds out, I'll be selling it, or my hyperframed ULE Mag.....

[cris8762]

i held the ONLY promaster at IAO this year (which was retarded, they should have been selling them, i know they would have sold at least like 10) and it felt sweet. Like a short timmy with a nice trigger. If i wasn't a poor college student i would buy one.

[funeralplanner]

Well, mine came in today. Much nicer than I expected for the money. Working on the air pressures now. When I get it right, I'll give my overall opinion... Anyone else get one?

[armyboot]

Got one today.

My review: I'm selling my proto. The Pro does everything the proto does and IMO is easier to shoot quickly. Not to mention it's 1/2 the price...

[RingOfScale]

Wow, that says alot.

Sooo when looking thru PGI the DM4/DM5/Proto are the most common guns i see being used, does this mean next issue people will only be using Promasters? Somehow I doubt people will drop their more expensive guns for Promasters simply because they dont want to admit their expensive pwnage machines got bested by a 380 dollar gun :P

-rIng

[armyboot]

Wow, that says alot.

Sooo when looking thru PGI the DM4/DM5/Proto are the most common guns i see being used, does this mean next issue people will only be using Promasters? Somehow I doubt people will drop their more expensive guns for Promasters simply because they dont want to admit their expensive pwnage machines got bested by a 380 dollar gun :P

-rIng

Never said most people would switch.

Those people can spend all the money they want. I'll use the money I gain from selling my proto to practice and buy paint.

[funeralplanner]

Never said most people would switch.

Those people can spend all the money they want. I'll use the money I gain from selling my proto to practice and buy paint.


Army,

Question, have you tried to adjust the dwell? I'm having trouble with mine.

[manike]

Army,

Question, have you tried to adjust the dwell? I'm having trouble with mine.

Do it very slowly, and wait to see the LED blink before you pull it again, it's a little longer than a second. You have to do it slower than you think. I had trouble with it at first also.

So when counting the dwell you are inputting.

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Pull trigger.... wait, wait, LED blinks,

Wait about 10 seconds for the LED to blink back to you. Wait a little while. Turn gun off. Turn gun on and you should be set.

That would set your dwell to 8ms.

I don't think it will let you set the dwell to 6ms or less (so people don't screw the gun up) it just defaults.

I've had good results running mine on 7ms.

[funeralplanner]

Thanks, let me run this by you.

When I pull the trigger and turn the gun on, it blinks 15 times. Is the dwell setting on 15 then?

[manike]

Yes.

[funeralplanner]

Thanks.....got it working...........

I was trying to put it on 6 the whole time. I even told a tech that on the phone. Oh well, thanks for the help. Runs even faster now. Might even crank it back to 9 or 10.

Thanks again

FP

Oh, by the way. What does everyone think of the trigger on this gun? I think it is perfect. ICD did it the right way.

[manike]

Runs even faster now.

Don'tcha just love it! :D

I like the trigger too, but prefer doubles with a bump in the middle... I am working on one right now for it. ;)

[funeralplanner]

Sounds good. Let me know what you come up with. I think this trigger is starting to grow on me. What do you think about this regulator?

[armyboot]

The trigger is absolutely phenomenal.

[funeralplanner]

What pressure are you guys running your gun on, and what velocity are you getting.

I'm running right around 215 give or take, and the LPR is a quarter turn down from the air hissing out the frame.

I need to adjust it a little more, because I'm only getting 260's

[manike]

Honestly, I run my guns at whatever pressure makes them shoot best. Preferably as high an input pressure as possible, with as short a dwell as possible. Seriously. :dance:

That way you get better efficiency and a higher rate of fire... most of the LP myths are rubbish in my opinion.

[funeralplanner]

Okay, I was asking the question in another post what worked best. You feel that higher pressure with a lower dwell is most efficient? I went from a 7 to a 9 dwell and really didn't notice anything. What psi are u running your HPR on?

[manike]

You feel that higher pressure with a lower dwell is most efficient?

Nope. I know it. :D I've even gone out of my way to test it too. ;)


What psi are u running your HPR on?

Little secret, the gauges we use in paintball aren't really that accurate.

Set your dwell to the lowest that will run the gun and still give you consistent velocity.

Set your LPR so that it doesn't leak, and then to how fast you want it to cycle and how little kick you want (faster cycle gives a bit more kick).

Set your HPR to whatever gives you the correct velocity. I'm pretty sure my stock one is at 290fps on around 250-300psi. But I'd need to go and check. In all honesty I don't pay much attention to the HPR setting unless to check my regs havent' spiked. It really doesn't matter what it is as long as the gun is shooting great and you aren't getting drop off. :dance:

:cheers:

[funeralplanner]

I called a tech just to ask him, and he said the same. Only diff was that he would keep the LPR kind of low, just so it doesn't use too much air. He also told me you can take the hammer spring out of the gun and it will work. Dunno, didn't try that.

[manike]

I wish I knew some techs. :rofl: :rolleyes:

I removed the hammer spring from one of mine and it does allow you to run the ram at a lower PSI.

[ntn4502]

^ He knows nothing

[funeralplanner]

I wish I knew some techs. :rofl: :rolleyes:

I removed the hammer spring from one of mine and it does allow you to run the ram at a lower PSI.



One of yours?

[slade]

One of yours?
its simon, hes an NPS engineer... what do you expect?

[Lohman446]

I called a tech just to ask him, and he said the same. Only diff was that he would keep the LPR kind of low, just so it doesn't use too much air. He also told me you can take the hammer spring out of the gun and it will work. Dunno, didn't try that.

You called a tech to check on the word of one of the foremost paintball engineers in the world today?

[funeralplanner]

No.... I called before I was able to get back and see the post. Sorry. I wasn't very specific.

[manike]

Sorry, I was just teasing. :) I currently have 3... two pre-production prototypes I got for testing and debugging and one production unit. If I'm at events I lend them out for people to try. Funny thing is how they often then end up buying them (or saying they will). :D

One of my prototypes is now a 'test bed' gun for some new parts and stuff. ;)

[funeralplanner]

Let me know what parts you feel work well will you? Any so far?

[FSU_Paintball]

Hey Manike, are you going to be at the Camp Blanding game?

I'm headed there with "Tallahassee Tactical" if you are.

[manike]

Is that the Viper game at Elmer, NJ?

If so, then yes hopefully I will be. :)

[FSU_Paintball]

no... it's in FL at a military training facility or some shiz. Too bad. Perhaps I shall meet the elusive manike at some other point in time :)

[slade]

back to the topic: i just shot a promaster while on chrony duty yesterday and it was NICE, nicest new marker in that price range ive ever seen. easily competes with my freestyle. great looks, small and smooth.

simon - do you know what kind of efficiency to expect with the pressure/dwell settings you recommend? also would higher pressure/lower dwell add to the kick?

[manike]

1250 on a 68/4500 psi are realistic numbers right up at 290fps, I hear of 1500... but haven't counted that accurately yet, so can't verify it.

These are on stock guns.

I have found a little help with the valve, and a decent reg and a low pressure tank set up can help.

In general the efficiency is pretty similar, if not better, than one of the older bushmasters.

AT some point I'll tune my gun in and go for some more accurate numbers, but right now I am busting to get new toys ready for world cup. :clap:

Higher lpr pressure and shorter dwell can give you a little more 'kick' when dry firing, but I've found with paint, and a loader and the gun in your shoulder than you don't notice it, and the gun actually kicks very little. Unless you put it onto NXL mode unlimited and then it can tend to lift. :shooting: :wow:

[Creative Mayhem]

Unless you put it onto NXL mode unlimited and then it can tend to lift. :shooting: :wow:


LOL.. leave it to simon to do that... ;)

[Rather]

Do these like LP tanks over HP tanks? or will it not matter either way if its properly tuned with a HP tank?

Asking because I am selling my gun to get one of these and want to know if i get to scrap my HP tank along with the gun to get a LP tank.

Thx.

[manike]

You can use either tank.

[Pullman]

Hey I have a dumb question you may be able to help me with. I should have my Promaster by the end of the week. It's my first ICD marker. I'm pretty stoked.

Anyhow I have a 68/3000 Flatline. I have heard that I can't really turn it below a 650 PSI output and get decent flow. Is this the case? If so should I turn it down to 650 so I don't overwork the Promaster reg? Or can I just leave it at 850 since it doesn't seem to matter whether you use an HP or LP tank? I've heard stories about blown solenoids and what not, but frankly have no idea what any of that means. Prior to this I have only owned Tippmanns and mech-Mags.

Thanks,

Marlin :D

[slade]

Hey I have a dumb question you may be able to help me with. I should have my Promaster by the end of the week. It's my first ICD marker. I'm pretty stoked.

Anyhow I have a 68/3000 Flatline. I have heard that I can't really turn it below a 650 PSI output and get decent flow. Is this the case? If so should I turn it down to 650 so I don't overwork the Promaster reg? Or can I just leave it at 850 since it doesn't seem to matter whether you use an HP or LP tank? I've heard stories about blown solenoids and what not, but frankly have no idea what any of that means. Prior to this I have only owned Tippmanns and mech-Mags.

Thanks,

Marlin :D
very few guns require LP tanks. the promaster inline reg should be able to handle 800+ psi fine, my freestyle has (same reg). a blown noid will only occur if your LPR is way too high, and it somehow doesnt vent the air.

[manike]

I'd turn it down as far as you can and still get good performance. It may be one of those things you just tune in when you get the gun.

If you don't want to mess with it, and the tank works great as it is, then just run it as you have been. You'll be fine. :)

[slade]

I'd turn it down as far as you can and still get good performance. It may be one of those things you just tune in when you get the gun.
why, what advantage will that have? (besides possibly better efficiency) because isnt it best to have a few 100 psi difference between regs to keep it from having a slow recharge? i dont think it would be that easy to see at what (tank) PSI the recharge of the HPR will be effected at.

[onedude36]

manike, i want your job someday.

[slade]

manike, i want your job someday.
get in line.

[manike]

why, what advantage will that have?

You answered your own question. :)


(besides possibly better efficiency)

It's marginal but it seems to help. That's why I was saying it is useful, but not a major issue.


isnt it best to have a few 100 psi difference between regs to keep it from having a slow recharge?

Yes. But then the Promaster runs at between 250 and 290 psi. So 450-500 input would be great.

I always like running at the lower pressures, especially through things like the macroline fittings etc. Just gives you a better factor of safety.

[jesusjuice]

ya buy from murder inc chris gave me a new promaster and 3 day shipping for 355. GREAT PRICE

[hardr0ck68]

When did ICD "pair up" with NPS? No offense, i have just never been a fan of national, they are like the black hole of paintball sucking up and compressing the heck out of any company that gets to close (or makes a decent product).

Is the promaster internally the same as a defiant/timmy? what noid does the promaster run?

[BuyMyMag]

Way to bring up and OLD thread.

[stondroopy]

Way to bring up and OLD thread.

Way to keep it at the top :D

[peewee]

When did ICD "pair up" with NPS? No offense, i have just never been a fan of national, they are like the black hole of paintball sucking up and compressing the heck out of any company that gets to close (or makes a decent product).

Is the promaster internally the same as a defiant/timmy? what noid does the promaster run?


As far as I know they havent teamed up. promaster is similar but not the "same". not sure on the noid.

[hardr0ck68]

As far as I know they havent teamed up. promaster is similar but not the "same". not sure on the noid.

Manike wouldent be out permoting if if it wasent NPS, and i would immagin they called the the barrel timmy threaded is because the timmy is a NPS marker, and the cocker is not.

[manike]

I've long been friends with everyone at ICD, my first electro was a Bushmaster. I also made the prototype gun as a combination of timmy and bushy parts that Hawk saw and then went on to design the Promaster. :cheers: Bob saw it, and went on to make the Defiant. They are not the same guns and one was designed inhouse by ICD and Hawk, the other designed inhouse by Bob and Blast. I had nothing to do with the design of the final Promaster or Defiant, other than I got a prototype to test out.

The Promaster is not the same inside as the defiant or the timmy.

NPS has been selling and distributing ICD products and had a relationship with ICD for a long time but since the whole nasty mess with SP sueing them, the relationship became even stronger with us helping to sponsor and promote teams that use their guns etc.

It's called 'timmy threads' because K2 wanted everyone to cease and desist from using their terms, cocker (tm) and autococker (tm) :( . Bob doesn't mind people calling their threads 'intimidator' and everyone knows the intimidator uses the same barrels as Autocockers... so that solved that problem.