is their any way to make a mag more efficient?

[renegade2k]

well, is there? i would like some input from tom on this too please

[BlueMagRT]

use an unported barrel

[renegade2k]

any thing else????

[rudy]

making sure its a good slick barrel maybe you should try a jj full tilt one peice grey ceraic coating.
I have heard that mags run more effecient at higher pressure, so if you could decrease the volume of the dump chamber then you could probably get better effeciency. I think there was a mag called the hypermag produced at one time that used this method basically the opposite of a smartmag or the magic box.

[BlueMagRT]

actually a hyermag if i'm not mistaken was just a retromag with a hyperframe on it. and a smaller air chamber would actually make you loose velocity.

[renegade2k]

anything besides barrels, im like mine. so making the air chamber smaller wouldnt help the efficiency? if it was low pressure, like gutted then regulated with a palmer, would that help efficiency? what is it that gives lp autockocers such good efficiency

[Bonx0007]

sounds like your looking for consistancy not efficientcy

[renegade2k]

no i want to get more shots out of my tank

[Snappy]

Get a bigger tank. :D

Those cockers are more efficient not because of low pressure, but because the internals work efficiently.

[renegade2k]

can this get an up? i would like some more responses. also, can a mag be gutted and ran without bein regulated?

[PigSweat]

Low Pressure=High Volume

High Pressure=Lower Volume

Therefore...

The lower your pressure, the more air you need to use; thus, fewer shots.

The higher the pressure, the less air you need to use;
thus, more shots.

[rhetor22]

wouldn't you need the same amount of air molecules either way to propel the ball to the same velocity though?

Low pressure = higher volume, more gas is needed to move the ball

High pressure = low volume, more gas is compressed into that lower volume

I'm not sure if there are any other variables that would effect this though.

[PigSweat]

To compensate for a lack of pressure, more air must be used. That is why LP guns like the Shocker and Matrix get such crappy efficiency.

[PyRo]

Low pressure and high pressure guns use about the same amount of air. Think about it.
You have 2 chambers, one in a high pressure gun and one in a low pressure gun. Both are shooting the same paint at 280fps with the same barrels etc.
(these are not actually specs, just using them to demonstraight my point)
Lets say the high pressure gun has a 1ci chamber size, and the low pressure has a 2ci chamber size. Now, both chambers need the same amount of air in them to propel the balls at the same speed. This works because if the 2ci chamber has 50psi of air in it, then that 1ci has to have 100psi of air in it. The chambers may be differant sizes, but the actuall amount of air in the chambers will not vary very much.

Now lets see if anyone can understand my rambling :)

[rudy]

No not the hyperframe and no definitely not lowering pressure.
I did some checking around and I was right there was a gun made by Fox River Games called the hypermag. And it turned out approx 25% better efficiency. I was told a 68 ci 3k system would normally run about 600 shots and the hypermag could do around 900 shots. A whole gun could be bought for like 500 at the time or you could have a mag converted for 250. They no longer do this service though. The gun was simply set up to run off higher pressure by making the dump chamber smaller and changing the regsprings and possibly some other stuff. Here is the interesting part the guy said they were originally making the mod to get the guns to recharge faster and the efficiency was a side effect. Well at the time the LP cocker hype was in full swing so the idea of a higher pressure gun was not looking good. Then the RT came out which solved the recharge issue better then the hyper mag so they quit making it. Well most of us know that LP in itself doesnt not make better efficiency rather better efficiency results in the need to lower the pressure to keep the velocity constant. Also if you can run lowerpressure then theoretically you make more of the the air in the tank useable. If you have to refill at 600 psi then you arent using 600psi of air but if you have to refill at 200 psi then you were able to use 400psi more of that tank. But that amount of air as shown by the shocker isnt where the real efficiency is in a gun. But why would higher pressure make for better efficiency? My guess on the mag a couple factors. at higher pressure the ball is accelerated in a shorter time and the bolt is forward for a larger percentage of that shorter time meaning less acceleration is wasted in blowback. the dump chamber is a smaller size and a certain amount of air is probably not going to make it out of the bolt to accelerate the ball in the larger chamber more air is wasted in this manner. air has to travel longer distances and so more energy is lost around turns or larger edges.
I dont really know your welcome to shoot holes in my guesses. What really matters (if those numbers are accurate) is 25% more shots thats a lot to me id say its worth the mod if they decided to do it again. especially on a gun like the emag. The real Question is why isnt the mag running at higher pressure, of course I could guess that tom would of sold even less mags then due to the LP hype. Or maybe he knows of problematic side effect. I was also told that it didnt chop anymore balls in their experience if the mag was set up right.

senseless rambling ends

[hitech]

Reduce blowback and you will reduce the air necessary to propel the paintball.

You also need a barrel matched to both the paint you are shooting and to the gun (long enough to accelerate the paintball to the desired velocity and no longer).

The barrel should not be ported and be as "friction free" as possible.

[rudy]

say just for an example the bolt spring pushes back with 50 psi then if you have a mag running at 400psi and and the bolt starts to return at 50 psi you seeblowback then. at 12.5% of psi now if your gun operates at 600 psi and it returns at 50psi then you see blowback at 8.3% of psi also the larger chamber size falls in. I dunno that isnt exactly how it should be worked out mathamatically but it gives an idea a place to start. maybe a lighter bolt spring would show some increase in effeciency probbaly at the cost of speed on the return.