To the few people here I won't name..

[MadPSIence]

Alright something has been bugging me since a little after I joined and I need to get it off my chest.

I've noticed there are quite a few posters here on AO who frankly, disrespect mags every opportunity they get. I am talking about calling mags useless and unworthy of any tourny play, every time someone praises a mag or is curious about the performance of said mag..

Everyone here knows that mags aren't quite on par with guns like Intimidators, Angels, etc.. but it's very clear that mags are no slouch. I'll stop there. This thread is not and will not be about whether mags are good/bad/whatever

My question is.. if you come to post on AO.. yet only heat debate and then argument about them.. why do you even post on this site? If you don't own mags, don't like mags and are demented on your love for other guns... maybe you should find a forum to your liking.

Sure it's a forum where you can talk about anything paintball, and even unrelated but the title of the site is automags.org, this site is the spawn of AGD and the majority of the population here owns or loves mags. Why are you few people so demented that you stay here.. rack up 1000+ posts and yet continue to bash mags every chance you get?

You've all right to post here, I'm no mod and can't tell you otherwise. But I can say.. quit being a complete crap and shut up if you don't like mags. Nobody here wants to hear from you. The "Mag" subject has been debated to heck and you're just a thorn in the rear.

[Automaggot68]

I know exactly who you're referring to.

[MadPSIence]

I know exactly who you're referring to.

Eh.. 50% of people probably do but I don't care to make this a directly personal thread unless someone wants to come forth. Even then, flaming is not needed. Criticism on the other hand..

[nt2004]

some people( me included) owned a mag and frequented this place. THen we moved on gun wise for various reasons but saw no reason to leave here. Then we read posts made by people who talk bad about our guns while praising their mags and we get frustrated. I've seen people post threads about new items and end up dealing with flames from mag owners. Blazestorm made a thread a little while ago about his sexy timmy and he had to deal with someone calling it "another plain old timmy." Plus there are the hypocrits who look past the mags obvious faults to bash newer higher end guns. Thats just my .02 though

[cdacda13]

You know, there is an angel sub-forum here.

[Target Practice]

My question is.. if you come to post on AO.. yet only heat debate and then argument about them.. why do you even post on this site? If you don't own mags, don't like mags and are demented on your love for other guns... maybe you should find a forum to your liking.

Yeah, it would be just so much better if this site was just one big Automag circlejerk.

[SPECK]

If you post in an online forum, there will be opinions you do not like/ agree with.

With that said, either suck it up or don't post on them.

[Automaggot68]

You know, there is an angel sub-forum here.


That isn't his point at all.
You havent been here long enough to see said point.

[Automaggot68]

Yeah, it would be just so much better if this site was just one big Automag circlejerk.


With you at the pivot point.

[Maggot6]

I understand where you are coming from, and you do have a completely valid point. But there is constructive critisism here every once in a while, that is why I like mag "bashers" thoughts as well.

[MadPSIence]

Yeah, it would be just so much better if this site was just one big Automag circlejerk.

It would be better if people obligated to bash mags, would keep quiet; or, simply leave if they do not have that self control.

this site IS automags.org, once again, and that being said there should at least be a sense of role here to not come and call mags useless.

it's like.. some kid with a mustang going to a subaru forum and saying STi's suck on a regular basis and staying.

[MadPSIence]

I understand where you are coming from, and you do have a completely valid point. But there is constructive critisism here every once in a while, that is why I like mag "bashers" thoughts as well.

you're right. I have no problem with constructive criticism but it's really gone beyond that. The constructive part of the criticism these people have is long abused and repeated..

I wish they could all at one point hear the words "Mags aren't perfect, I don't care"

[tru_flip56]

I actually agree with you guys...i love mags but i come across certain people...all right....a lot of people here who bash them...I am also a part of AO (angelowners.com) and those guys love their product to death...almost everyone there has an angel or love it and stand by it. I hardly see any haters...its just a shame people here use this site to bash mags when in fact this site and its products are really really good...im not saying everyone should keep there opinions quite..just that they do it some other place...

[magman007]

Oh man, would you get over it? Half of you Madpsience included, are just as bad about praising mags as the wholy grail to all that is paintball than the mag bashers are to bashing them. I for one, do not bash them, but i will tell you, they arent all that some people on this site hype them up to be.

Get over it already, public board, public posters.

I know for a fact some of the bashers have been warned.

[Blazestorm]

When your latest marker came out in 2001... that's pretty bad -_- Or was the X-mag 2002?

SFL came out in 2001... or before it, cause I saw manny using it at 2001 cup.

Oh well.

Mags are cool, and I like them, but I'd never use them in a tournament. If it was one of my last options I'd probably take it... but for the most part I'll stick with my 05 dragon. Shooting zero-bounce paint from 3-4ft at 18bps... zero breaks/chops (Including barrel). And that was on triple-shot, I shoot 16-17 on semi. I couldn't shoot much more than 10 on my mag... it was inefficient... couldn't handle brittle paint... had that annoying 15" macroline...

I was just told by my friend who was an avid automag fan, only owned a spyder... minimag... and RT Pro (Which he had for 3-4 years). He mentioned to me when he gets back into it, he's probably just going to get an Ion.

[cdacda13]

That isn't his point at all.
You havent been here long enough to see said point.
I've been here longer then Madpsience.

[BigEvil]

A few helpful links

www.intimidatorowners.com
www.angel-owners.com
www.shockerowners.com
www.thematrixcenter.com

[magman007]

A few helpful links

www.intimidatorowners.com
www.angel-owners.com
www.shockerowners.com
www.thematrixcenter.com


um i think you want www.matrixowner.com

[BigEvil]

um i think you want www.matrixowner.com


oops yeah that one too. WHen I saw the list on Google there was one for the TOYOTA MATRIX also.

[MadPSIence]

Oh man, would you get over it? Half of you Madpsience included, are just as bad about praising mags as the wholy grail to all that is paintball than the mag bashers are to bashing them. I for one, do not bash them, but i will tell you, they arent all that some people on this site hype them up to be.

Get over it already, public board, public posters.

I know for a fact some of the bashers have been warned.

Welcome to automags.org

You have no right to tell anyone here to stop praising mags. It doesn't even matter if the praise is exaggerated. This is the place where you need to just shut up and accept it. If not, EVERY other type of marker has it's own owners site. And if you're in the mood to criticize guns... there's non-specific sites like PBR, PBN etc...

This Is The House That Tom Built, Do Not Come Here And Say The Furniture Sucks.

Okay?

[Blazestorm]

I honestly think you should be quiet. You've been here for a few months, not years like some people including myself. We know what AO was. We've all owned mags, why else would we be on www.automags.org... we realized they weren't for us but continued to visit the forum because we thought it was a great place to go to. Now we come here less often because we realized that most of the people here are blind and think mags are the best marker and the ONLY marker people should own.

[MadPSIence]

I honestly think you should be quiet. You've been here for a few months, not years like some people including myself. We know what AO was. We've all owned mags, why else would we be on www.automags.org... we realized they weren't for us but continued to visit the forum because we thought it was a great place to go to. Now we come here less often because we realized that most of the people here are blind and think mags are the best marker and the ONLY marker people should own.

If in my 4 months here I can develop more appreciation for the community than you have in your entire stay than maybe that says something worth pondering.

I never said it's a problem to come here because it's a great place visit. I think you're full of it if you're trying to make me believe that someone would sit and bash mags and mag owners if they were only here to "visit" because they like the community.

[yakitori]

Ya, I agree with some of the above. Ive owned a lot of mags.

Karta Emag 3.2
fireblade trigger
tunapack
EmaX valve
stiffi
Unimount
etc.

Mech mag W emag vavle
ULT
lvl 10
intelli
cp gas thru

mech mag w/ emag valve
ult
lvl 10
15deg asa
logic frame
etc.


And a couple more that have been built using parts that I always seemed to have laying around.

I racked up most of my posts while I owned those mags, and I used to brag about them w/ every breath. I used to love mags to death and I was blind to see that there were GREAT guns out there, way better than what I was using. I have since moved on.

Then you came along, you have about half the posts as me, and youve been around for a little while. You have no knowledge of these "unnamed" users that you wish would go away and their history or their begginings w/ AO. You think that we should bug off.

You see where this is going. Given the story I just laid out for you, who seems like the bigger jerk? hmmm.... Thats a tuffy.

Not every post about mags get bashed. I see some really ugly ones and say nothing. I see some nice ones, and say ....nice mag. I hear the moot bragging about them like they are the superguns of today, and I say......yeah right.

Its a public forum...get over it.

[Blazestorm]

When have I once bashed mag owners? Ever?

I used to like the community, because back then, it didn't matter what gun you had. Every single person enjoyed paintball and wanted to learn more about it, get better at it, and continue playing it. Flame wars were literally non existant, and there was nobody putting anyone or any marker down. There was no "hate". Tom would personally come on here and post something funny. We had AO Chat parties where Tom would give stuff away, they were hilarious and a lot of fun. He even had a webcam setup that you could move yourself. One night at 3am I started to use it to find Tom at his desk! I thought it was broken when he took out a notepad and wrote "Hi!!!" and showed it to the webcam. 3am my time = 5-6am his time. He was up all night working and looking on AO.

This used to be my main forum, I used to use PBN only for selling stuff because of a larger user base I'm more likely to get something sold.

I used to love AO, you're one of the reasons It became the second forum I visit.

You know nothing of what AO used to be, you can't appreciate anything being here for 4 months. I've been here since I started playing (Well a few months after). I enjoyed what this community was, and wish it could become that again. Sneakyhacker getting something new and green... and that one kid... completely forgot his name... having his mom make him a Pie suit to wear at an AO Day.

I hosted an AO Day last Julyish (2004), only around 10-12 people showed up, The field owner said through email we would get to setup the field for free no problem. We show up and says it's $150 bucks for him to call his refs to setup the field. I pulled that out of my own pocket, bought 10 cases of paint ahead of time so that everyone could get cheap paint. And I was 15 at the time.

Enjoy AO for what it is, but don't try to tell me I don't know what AO has become.

[Target Practice]

Look, there are people on here that think Mags are the be-all-end-all greatest things in the world. There are also people on here that think that the Mag is the worst thing to come out of paintball since Bea Young.

What I don't understand is, why do people like you have a problem with it. Just ignore it. It's not that hard.

You know, people tell us that we should overlook horrific spelling and terrible grammar, yet when someone comes on here and says "Mags SUCK!", the same people get all uppity.

I mean, it's just the Internet, right? Or does that arguement only go one way?

[Vex]

To all of you who don't like what MadPSIence is saying: You suck it up.
He has a good point and you are bashing him. AO is a great place for Mag AND Non-Mag owners. Just because you no longer feel that Mags are the Holy Grail of paintball, does not give you the right to bash someone else's opinion of them. However, the same holds true for us rabid Mag owners--just because someone else has moved away from Mags, doesn't give us the right to say they are traitors, etc.

Basically, if you really want praise for your non-Mag marker--go to the appropriate website for that marker. You'll get a lot more.

Don't bash us Mag owners on our choice to stay with and defend Mags (especially on AO.) It's our choice as much as it was yours to move away.

[MadPSIence]

When have I once bashed mag owners? Ever?

I used to like the community, because back then, it didn't matter what gun you had. Every single person enjoyed paintball and wanted to learn more about it, get better at it, and continue playing it. Flame wars were literally non existant, and there was nobody putting anyone or any marker down. There was no "hate". Tom would personally come on here and post something funny. We had AO Chat parties where Tom would give stuff away, they were hilarious and a lot of fun. He even had a webcam setup that you could move yourself. One night at 3am I started to use it to find Tom at his desk! I thought it was broken when he took out a notepad and wrote "Hi!!!" and showed it to the webcam. 3am my time = 5-6am his time. He was up all night working and looking on AO.

This used to be my main forum, I used to use PBN only for selling stuff because of a larger user base I'm more likely to get something sold.

I used to love AO, you're one of the reasons It became the second forum I visit.

You know nothing of what AO used to be, you can't appreciate anything being here for 4 months. I've been here since I started playing (Well a few months after). I enjoyed what this community was, and wish it could become that again. Sneakyhacker getting something new and green... and that one kid... completely forgot his name... having his mom make him a Pie suit to wear at an AO Day.

I hosted an AO Day last Julyish (2004), only around 10-12 people showed up, The field owner said through email we would get to setup the field for free no problem. We show up and says it's $150 bucks for him to call his refs to setup the field. I pulled that out of my own pocket, bought 10 cases of paint ahead of time so that everyone could get cheap paint. And I was 15 at the time.

Enjoy AO for what it is, but don't try to tell me I don't know what AO has become.

If people brag about mags and act like they are the be all end all of guns... you know what.

This is their place to do it. But in most cases they don't have to do that to be flamed.

btw, when I made this thread; I didn't have your name in mind. Your place here was never in question.

[Blazestorm]

I never thought it was. 2 years ago I would have believed this was the mag forum... now it's too mixed to be anything but a paintball forum.

[MadPSIence]

Look, there are people on here that think Mags are the be-all-end-all greatest things in the world. There are also people on here that think that the Mag is the worst thing to come out of paintball since Bea Young.

What I don't understand is, why do people like you have a problem with it. Just ignore it. It's not that hard.

You know, people tell us that we should overlook horrific spelling and terrible grammar, yet when someone comes on here and says "Mags SUCK!", the same people get all uppity.

I mean, it's just the Internet, right? Or does that arguement only go one way?

Frankly I don't know how you draw conclusion's on correcting spelling and grammer here on AO to bashing mags and correcting exaggerated praise for mags.

If the site was www.carelessspellingandgrammar.org then maybe you'd have a bit of a start. Fact is, if you don't like mags.. ok. But if you need to express your dislike on a mag meant for mag owners.. then you have no place here.

[MadPSIence]

I never thought it was. 2 years ago I would have believed this was the mag forum... now it's too mixed to be anything but a paintball forum.

Well, maybe my efforts here are to preserve the mag atmosphere. Or, at least the good name of mags that is getting slandered by people who have little idea what they are talking about.

I may be only a few months into this site itself.. but not into paintball, or mags. I know mags top to bottom and frankly that leaves me angry when people call them unworthy, useless, clunky or a thing of the past. Tell that to all of the dedicated private makers of custom mag parts. They'd probably start tossing slug bodies.

[yakitori]

I hope you didnt have my name in mind because I dont say mags are clunky, worthless, etc. because they arent. If I ever wanted a mech gun again, it would be a mag. I sold all my mag stuff not because I WANTED to move on to something else, although I kinda did, but because AO is one of the few places to even get mag parts. Mags are getting older each year, and the only parts that I could get for them were used w/o paying WAY too much buying from AGD. If I am going to spend that much on a mech, heck, I might as well go w/ something else right. I want parts to be available still in a few years, or at least have decent resale. Mags are fine with me.

I dont understand why you come on w/ only 600 posts, most of which are arguing, complaining about ppl w/ 1000+ posts that you think should leave. At one post per day that is a year longer than youve been here. What gives you the right to tell those ppl to bug off. And you start arguments a nearly every thread you post in. How is that preserving the mag community and AO? If you want to do that, promote things for mags. Bring ppl together, not split them down the middle like our govt chooses to do. Where do you think that leads? Civil war? Arguing, bashing, griping, complaining, and that doesnt promote anything.

Im going to use aliens 8 my dad for an example because I have met him and he is a nice guy. Ok, his picture is on the banner of this website, and he is shooting his emag, which was one of the nicest ones ive shot. He has since purchased an Eclipse EGO. You ask him what he thinks is better and for what reasons, and he will likely tell you similar things that we say and that you consider "bashing" when it isnt. Just because we say breakbeam eyes are better than LX, this gun is more efficient, has less kick, easier to shoot faster, easier on paint, better balanced, and IMO better gun..........those are facts that MOST paintball players will recognize. But, there are a lot of mag users that get offended, and say you are bashing their guns, and argue the points that they dont want to admit.

So aliens, how is that ego workin for ya. Havent seen ya at the factory.

[warbeak2099]

Well, I think we can all admit that both sides get out of hand. There are people who bash mags unintelligently and those who praise them just as stupidly.

And then there are those of us who are objective. I realize mags have flaws. All guns have flaws. I choose to shoot a mag because I can live with the flaws it has. I also shoot it because I really like the pros of the gun. If you enjoy shooting another gun, fine. That's ok. But don't rub it in my face and insult the gun I choose to shoot on here.

That being said, mag owners shouldn't be rubbing mags in other people's faces. AO would be a lot better off if people just chilled about what gun someone's shooting. It's not a big deal. Some people's personal preferences are different than others. If you can't deal with that then no, you shouldn't be on this forum no matter how many posts you have or what gun you shoot. If you have to resort to acting like a 12yo brat saying things like, "mags are the best gun ever, screw all of you ion and shocker owners, your guns break all the time and are just terrible because smart parts are nazis" or "mags are outdated and can't compete because they are mags and everyone knows that, my shocker is the best gun ever, everything about mags is bad", then you should really just committ suicide. Because at that point you will have proven to everyone that you have lost what it means to be a human being. And that is intelligence. Intelligence means you back things up with facts and express them in a calm and respectful manner.

If you can't match both of those criteria, using facts not hype, and speaking respectfully and not like a total prick, then you shouldn't be here. Both of the groups should be ashamed. We're supposed to be all about tolerance here. The both of you are destroying that. So put a sock in it, change the way you act, or leave. I really don't see how you people can't understand that. You bit each other's heads off for destroying our forum when it's the both of you at fault.

Mags are not perfect. No gun is perfect. Automags.org is a place for everyone, mag owner or not, to have mature, intelligent discussions about paintball. It is not the place to bash mags. It is not the place to bash any gun. End of story.

[VFX_Fenix]

Okay... I have a question, why was this thread even started?

I mean, I understand the motivation for starting this thread, but what was the end that it was hoped it would achieve beyond drawing a line in the sand and saying, "Everyone who doesn't think the Automag is the End-All-Be-All Cat's MEEEEOW gun, get on the otherside of that line because I don't want to talk to you anymore"?

I believe there was a point in time when AO was a reasonably objective core of people who knew their gun was good, but also knew their gun needed improvements. They also believe firmly in the tests that have been done in various sectors of AGD's research reguarding some of the misconceptions that have been propogated through the industry and paintball playing community at large.

The objective individual can step away from their alliances/beliefs and see the flaws that might exist in those alliances/beliefs/etc.

There are people in every forum who would place their marker's creator uppon a pedistle and defend them with the almost religious zeal of a "true believer". These members are necesary in every community and often are the very core of that community. However these individuals if left without moderates, objective, and even members from the other side of the isle the community may well be at peace with itself, but the community as a whole stagnates and becomes increasingly hostile even to those who even share some of that community's views. Thus even a Moderate/Objective individual can be labled an extremist because in the context of that community their views are extreme.

In the absense of an opposing point of view, ideas (which can be heavily flawed) are allowed to be propogated to the point where they are assumed to be "truth". It is only through testing of an idea/notion/hypothesis/premiss under the scruteny of objective individuals can anything be said to be the way that it is. In the real world this is done through tests of one form or another, here its done through debate and the presentation of evidence from various sources. Matters of opinion are simply that, opinion. If that opinion (or at the very least aspects of that opinion) can't be changed with empirical evidence then that opinion goes beyond a simple opinion and can be considered to be, for lack of a better word, "faith".

Case in point -
John Walker firmly believes that his Agg-Gat 5000 is more accurate because there are pixies that fly with the paint to the targets. If Bill Walking happens to conduct a study of the Agg-Gat 5000 along with several other guns ('05 Super Blender, '03 Chop-o-Mattic, and HoseBeast TacDriver) and finds that in his test using a plethora of techniques he is unable to find a statistically significant accuracy advantage. He comes back to John with his Agg-Gat 5000 and gives him the results of his tests and John refuses to believe that there aren't pixies and that his gun is more accurate.

^^^^ Sounds silly, right? But it happens all the time with guns/barrels/regs/stickers/etc. (Yes, I said stickers, your favorite racing technology sticker on your car, reguardless of make/model/etc. will add at LEAST 15 mental Horse Power to your car's performance, same goes for paintball gear, guaranteed to make you shoot faster and your hopper load quicker)

What I'm trying to get at is a community needs more than just "Yes Men" to blow smoke up who ever's pants every time something is propposed or claimed or what ever.

If you ever find yourself feeling upset or agitated over someone's claim or "bash" on something you believe in, take a momment, step back, consider why you're upset and what the bash is attacking. Is it attacking something you know can be proven (and has been)? Or is it attacking an opinion you have? Or is it just something that stems from pure ignorance (again, back to the "can be proven" clause)?

Can the ULT be set-up to be super light and super short and walked just as easily as an electro? No, certainly not without some mechanical sideffects or cycling issues (at least in my experience). The ULT is walkable with practice and a certain technique, but it is a far cry from pushing a little lever with a magnet as the only resistance.

Can Automags be servicable and competative guns? Absolutely

Can Level 10 really shoot even the most brittle shelled tournament paint? With time and effort put into tuning it, sure.

Can other guns be superior to the Automag? Yep

Is the Automag a popular gun? No
Why? Reputation and public image (or lack there of) as well as a slew of other reasons from cost to asthetics to flat out people just not liking them for no good reason other than they don't like'em or even know the gun exists.


What I object to, reguardless of situation, is the "Holier than thou art" attitude which can be taken on by people who don't have half a leg to stand on other than the general consensus of the rest of the community either because they have no prior history with an issue or their view is based out of a clear bias. It's a falacy to say "If you don't like it, go somewhere else." That totalitarian attitude does nothing to help a community grow and evolve.

So what was this thread started for?

I think it was to jump on a band-wagon and say "Look at me, I'm cool too and we should punish those infadels, who's with me?!"

HOWEVER - I must qualify, that, if this thread was started as a genuine question as to why individuals such as those whom shall not be named hang out on forums such as these, and not some sort of mob mentality item, then all you have to do is ignore my proposed answer for why I think this thread was started and you'll have your answer in my opinion.

[Alpha]

[QUOTE=magman007]I for one, do not bash them, but i will tell you, they arent all that some people on this site hype them up to be.
QUOTE]

26bps without shootdown, but hav ebeen taken to speeds far past that.

A ruggid, durable marker that can take a beating, an dkeep on going. Its not uncommon to see mags almost older then most members here.

Arguably the best mechanical design in the paintball industry. The RT series has so much potential in it. It only takes $200 to build your own pneumag. So a Paradigm+ $200 is about $650. You can easily push 20 with a pneumag and a strong walk (though its no timmy).

Mags aren't the best. But they aren't ****. And when you come here and say how they are horrible pieces of junk, its like stabbing a priest in the back while he's giving a speech at a church.

[warbeak2099]

Exactly. Objectivity is key. But mag bashers and mag praisers are too ignorant to know that. The both of them need to wise up.

[Fred]

You have no idea what AO has been about, was about, is about, or could have been about, unless you've read through all the archives of the past few years, that's fact (or have a previous account/been lurking).

Since March, or whenever you joined, and even before then, AO has not been the Historic AO.

Its a pale shadow of its once powerful, once influential, and once relevant presence in the Paintball Community.

Get over it, get over yourself, move on, like most of us who have been here long enough to realize what we've lost have.

[JoshK]

Wow...this post is horrible. You really have no idea what AO used to be like (even the a year ago when I joined)...I think you should just suck it up and deal. Allthough you do have a valid point, it isn't completly acurate.

The mags forum was made when Mags WERE (notice that word) the best thing since sliced bread. Since then people who were originally mag followers have found new and better things. It is really hard to have an older forum that is devoted to guns that arn't even made anymore (really...don't get me on technicalities) and expect those older members to all stay with a gun that isn't being improved upon. But you can expect them to stay because of the community they helped create...why would they leave something like that? Do you expect them to because they found a better gun, and like telling those who want information there are guns that are better?

Of course I have seen it go to the extreme, with both mag lovers, and dis-likers. I don't think if you were to ask a single person this forum they would tell you they hate mags, but there are better things out there.

I would post more but it is late, and my thoughts are too jumbled. Basically you have no right to tell some of our most extablished (sp?) members to go away because you don't like what they have to say.

And second deal with it and please shut up. Everyone has to deal with both sides of the spectrum, and you don't see others complaining.

Good night.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that I currently use a mag and love it...but it isn't the best thing out there anymore. So don't give me the "if you hate mags" crap you have given all the other people that didn't agree with you.

[shartley]

http://gprime.net/video.php/reallifevsinternet

[JoshK]

Haha...I saw you post on MCB...classic!

[zackzel]

http://gprime.net/video.php/reallifevsinternet


Haha, that was great, I think alot of the people on here need to watch this.

[MadPSIence]

To Fred and Fenix, sorry but despite what you think even when AO was at it's prime it was hardly a huge thing in the sport. You could have gone to most fields and said you were a member at AO and they'd look at you like you had an apendage growing out of your forehead.

Just because you guys have been here for years or posted thousands of times doesn't mean anyone newer can't have an opinion or be intelligent. You sound like the "seniors" on PBN calling people stupid for being "2k5'ers" just in a much more intellectual sounding manner.

This was never about mags being the holy grail of paintball guns. I never once stated that in this entire thread. I actually clearly and in bold stated that in this thread I would not care to discuss how good or bad mags are.

For "veterans" you sure miss the point. The point was, that people have no real right to come here and do nothing but flame the guns and business that this entire forum was built around and still exists to support the love of. Never did I say it was wrong for people to properly criticize a gun for what it is, or to take someone down a step when they exaggerate the "greatness" of mags. Please read the first post a little more clearly before you come talk about how you have been here for years in good times and bad blah blah.

Night.

[JimmyBeam]

This Is The House That Tom Built, Do Not Come Here And Say The Furniture Sucks.




it doesnt suck, but could sure use a reupholster.

[magman007]

To Fred and Fenix, sorry but despite what you think even when AO was at it's prime it was hardly a huge thing in the sport. You could have gone to most fields and said you were a member at AO and they'd look at you like you had an apendage growing out of your forehead.

Just because you guys have been here for years or posted thousands of times doesn't mean anyone newer can't have an opinion or be intelligent. You sound like the "seniors" on PBN calling people stupid for being "2k5'ers" just in a much more intellectual sounding manner.

This was never about mags being the holy grail of paintball guns. I never once stated that in this entire thread. I actually clearly and in bold stated that in this thread I would not care to discuss how good or bad mags are.

For "veterans" you sure miss the point. The point was, that people have no real right to come here and do nothing but flame the guns and business that this entire forum was built around and still exists to support the love of. Never did I say it was wrong for people to properly criticize a gun for what it is, or to take someone down a step when they exaggerate the "greatness" of mags. Please read the first post a little more clearly before you come talk about how you have been here for years in good times and bad blah blah.

Night.



you sir, are a complete fool. You have no idea what ao was about, how ao used to be, and how influential AO once was on the industry. Did you know that ao baisically showed everyone the truth about Jim Drew? Do you realize that AO used to be against the hype? That ao used to help dispell popular myths? Do you realize that AO helped develop many of the products you praise to this day? Lvl 10? ao beta tested it. Superbolt? We tested it, and proved it was a bad design. ULT? yep, ao members at an agd tech class who tested that one as well.

You sir have no idea what ao was about, you werent on ao when AO was AO. You have no idea what went on, or how any thing went on. You cant preserve something that is as far gone as ao is now.

Do you think it is safe to wrap up a piece of steak that sat outside for a week, then throw it in the freezer to preserve it? No and by your preservation of ao, this is what you are trying to do.

The thing about ao, is now, it is clouded up in its own hype, AO has befallen to what it once dispelled. People post in your opinion to "bash mags" to dispell the hype about them. Everytime i see some one Debating whether or not to get an e-mag, i recount my personal experiences with my e-mag and my sfl, and i think to my self, they were great markers, but there are markers invariably better on the market. For example, a dye DM3 with many ups, is available in the same price bracket, or 2k2 timmies can be had at the same price.

Now honestly, are you going to take a wonky, almost unwieldy marker, that is blind, with a trigger system that is not nearly as adjustable to ones liking, to something that has eyes, is easier to adjust, and setup to ones liking? Something that also will hold its resale value quite a bit better, and something that is invariably more relevant in todays modern sport?


Madpsience, all you do here is try to swing off toms nuts. You suck up to an office lady, whose name you cant even spell correctly, When you do not even know of the great Jo Anne?
Marcia is great btw, wont deny that.

You are being a Zealot, a Fanatic, some one who is over the top. Get over it. When some one asks if they should get a mag, they shouldnt be inundated with, yes go get one, they are the best. Because in all honesty, they arent. For the price, you can get electros, which are much more competitive, easier to shoot faster, easy to maintain, and easy to stay competitive with. You can get ions, impulses, etc for quite cheep, all of which are invariably better than a mech mag. if mech is your fortay, then so be it,

in all honesty, quit posting. all you have done is tried to stir up controversy, and no one likes you for it.




Edit: also, i find it funny that on ao, you claim to be canadian, and on pbn you claim to be costa rican, just thought id point that out

[VFX_Fenix]

After much thought, I have only this left to say to you Mad...

Objectivity seems to escape you, as does a tolerance for those who's views are more extreme than your own. Condem whom you must and be done with it.

[magman007]

After much thought, I have only this left to say to you Mad...

Objectivity seems to escape you, as does a tolerance for those who's views are more extreme than your own. Condem whom you must and be done with it.



so you are saying he is a communist? because we dont take kindly to communists

[11 Bravo]

I am sure that he was talking to the people that do nothing but bash automags. I am sure he was not talking to anyone that objectively points out the flaws in order to make a good point and maybe try to fix that flaw. The people that do nothing but bash mags in every thread that they get in is who he is talking about. And they should move on.

And maybe AO is not the forum that it was because of the attitude of some of the members that are bashing instead of contributing.

And why do people constantly compare a mech automag to an electric gun? I would think that to be fair you should compare mech to mech and electric to electric?

[11 Bravo]

I would think that the number of posts someone has would not be an important part of being a member of the forum. I think that seeing how this is the Automag owners forum that owning an automag would be more important than how many posts you've made.

[VFX_Fenix]

so you are saying he is a communist? because we dont take kindly to communists

I don't think he's a pinko, though he is Canadian.... hmmm lol j/k

Anyway, Magman, here's a post from AO's antiquity - http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45200

11 Bravo - The problem largely lies with the nature of the Automag at this time and the environment of the paintball industry. The Automag, appart from certain "custom" guns is very expensive and is more expensive than even it's old counterpart, the Autococker, with similar features installed (double trigger, flashy body, ability to take screw-in barrels) Paradigm Pro is $450, a Prostock is $330 and that comes with a barrel. For the cost of the Paradigm Pro you could have purchsed your AC and bought some ups and other gadgets for it with the $120 you saved just on the initial purchase.

Mech vs. Mech, the Automag doesn't stack up too favorably if only for cost, and the lack of a direct Electronic upgrade route which is widely avalible for Autocockers in the form of Racegun conversions and eBlades. For the Automag, Mech is it unless you want to double the cost of the gun and get a Devil/Logic frame/conversion or a decidedly cheaper option which isn't out yet in the PTP P-Mag.

There's also the problem that people want electro guns, it's a fact and there's no getting around it. Anyone who wants to get an Electro that asks for an opinion will likely hear "Get a Mag instead" for a number of reasons. There's a certain amount of machismo revolving around mag owners who claim to legally be able to shoot very quickly on their mech Mags or the circular argument of "I don't need the speed, I just need a clean shot" or something to that effect.

Tournament mindset from the word "go" in the NPPL has been "He who lays down the most paint wins" and given that everything else is equal, that's very true. Given two teams of equal skill it's very likely that the team that shoots the most is going to be the victor for no other reason than, while they're out shooting, the other team isn't.

[11 Bravo]

I get the fealing that people are only thinking in terms of speedball. I would agree that an automag would not be the best speedball gun. But in woodsball I would think that it would be great especialy if you had the rt set up correctly. I think that if you compared a mech mag to a mech Tippmann they are both reliable but in the long run the Automag is going to last longer. You get what you pay for. I have an Emag. I know that because it does not have ramping it wont keep up with the other speedball guns that do have it. With a ramping chip I dont see why the other guns would be any better. Besides cosmeticaly (sp). There could be improvement with AGD and I am sure everyone here knows that. It is in bad taste to come on a forum that AGD pays for and do nothing but slam the company.
You can see that in the above paragraph I did point out some downside of automags but it was not a slam. There is a difference.

[Target Practice]

I would think that the number of posts someone has would not be an important part of being a member of the forum. I think that seeing how this is the Automag owners forum that owning an automag would be more important than how many posts you've made.

Maybe not, but someone who's been here 3 years has more authority to speak about what the forum used to be over someone who's been here 3 months.

[Recon by Fire]

Okay, just my $0.02 and observation:

I understand the intention of the thread but it is a waste of time. AO is suffering from the typical internet mentality. :cry:

I don't care that they bash Mags. They are fools. The Mag has not been reinvented because it does not need to be! It is an awesome design and I love it! It is simplistic, reliable, durable, and sexy. What more is there to ask for? I don't care what marker X does or has on it, I am talking about MAGS. And of course they are favored at a place known as AUTOMAGS.ONLINE, who would have thought? Sure I would love it if the childish haters would keep their butts at PBN or wherever they come from but the internet is not as selective unfortunately. So we drive on and ignore the senseless chatter that comes from them, they are bacjground white noise to me.

Tom we miss you (hey, they just found some big old bones in Texas by the way!). The mag design is great, don't ever change a thing :)

Please also note that I could acre less what those would disagree with my post might say and I won't even bother reading it again anyway, so save your breath kids. But just for the record, my skill and mag will always trash your puny butt and marker de jour on the field. :headbang: :shooting: :dance:

Everybody loves the dancing banana :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:


VIVA LA AO

[shartley]

It is obvious that some members have a much different view of AO and its place in the world than others do. And some members seem to give AO a MUCH greater place in history than it truly deserves.

For example…. (and note how you can argue a point without insulting someone…. Something lost to far too many here on AO)…


Did you know that ao baisically showed everyone the truth about Jim Drew?
Basically? Hardly. AO showed other AO members about Jim Drew. And some AO members also did the same thing on other forums but would have even if they were not members here.

The simple truth is that AO does not, nor even has had, the power to inform the paintball community in general about anything. It does not, nor has ever had, the power to affect sales of other companies to the point that they are influenced or even bothered by it. We have seen this tried a few times with companies big, and small. But the simple truth is that for all the claims of power, AO is impotent in that regard.


Do you realize that AO used to be against the hype?
And how does this matter? Other forums are against hype as well. But unlike some other forums AO has formed its own hype… about itself and its importance. I fully understand the need of some people to be a part of something bigger than themselves, and that is fine. But no matter how much folks try to make AO bigger and greater than it really is or was, it does not make it so.


That ao used to help dispell popular myths?
Again, AO was not the only place that did that, nor does to this day. AO was not the single “truth army” on the field, no matter how many of its “warriors” claim they were or would like to think they were.


Do you realize that AO helped develop many of the products you praise to this day?
This is actually true. AO has been used as a sounding board for AGD, a test market, as well as to help iron out issues with new products. This however is not the best way to do things according to most businesses. It lets AO members feel as if they are contributing, but in honesty the company should have done much of the stuff themselves.

Tom has always given AO members a false sense of importance IMHO. But that has lead to diehard loyalists, which I believe AGD was looking for, But folks should not confuse their perceived importance to AGD with that of the entire paintball community. Nor should they confuse the internet paintball community with that of the real world.


You sir have no idea what ao was about, you werent on ao when AO was AO. You have no idea what went on, or how any thing went on. You cant preserve something that is as far gone as ao is now.
I was here. I know what went on. And I also know how far AO’s “powers” and “prestige” went on beyond the cyber walls of this kingdom….. it didn’t go very far.

And I know that AO was also the laughing stock of a good many manufacturers, forget to tell that one too? How about that AO had a reputation of being zealots who would not rationally look at Mags and their place in the market and attack anyone who even thought about saying something negative about them?

Oh yes, the “good old days”. Seems far too many think back to them with revisionist history and rose colored glasses.

But with all its faults in the past AO has still degraded. It has become a place that a group of folks (and it seems the same group every time) can’t debate opposing views without attacking, insulting, and trying to degrade those who they disagree with. Don’t like something someone posted? Don’t bother calmly discussing the issues and posting counter points, go right for the insults and degrading remarks.

For the most part this thread shows sadly that true “objectivity” has been lost on AO for the most part. Sure there are some members who can still keep it, but threads like this are becoming the norm for what folks can see on AO. It has become a bash-fest and people can’t see that valid points have been made by both sides of the issue. It is more important to pummel someone you don’t agree with than to actually discuss an issue.

And for those who want to act like it is impossible to preserve what they think AO used to be, you CAN. But you can’t by making what AO has become worse. Pointing to everyone else as the problem and lamenting about the “good old days” while exhibiting behavior that is commonly known as PBNish is no way to help AO. And it is actually part of the problem here now.

With that all said, if folks would like to discuss those issues fine. But if all they can do is come back and insult me personally because they didn’t like what I had to say….. I am not interested in what you have to say, and you only prove my points for me.

ADDED: Once more for those who missed it... http://gprime.net/video.php/reallifevsinternet

(more edits to correct blatent typos)

[BigEvil]

http://gprime.net/video.php/reallifevsinternet

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think everyone need to take their advice and go home and masturbate.

[Lohman446]

You've all right to post here, I'm no mod and can't tell you otherwise. But I can say.. quit being a complete crap and shut up

. Nobody here wants to hear from you.

you're just a thorn in the rear.

Hmm.. there your words, maybe you should take the advice. This forum has always been about discussion, and those that you complain about are a part of the discussion. Don't like it... I'm sure you can find some place better to post, maybe just send yourself e-mails so that everyone will agree with you all the time. I find this thread to serve no other purpose other than to troll for flames myself...

[mcdkid]

you guys arte fighting about a metal tube, and some air... It is can get paint out f the barrel, its good to play with, if it can get paint out of the barrel when you want, everytime you wan it, its GREAT to play with.

Its nice to sometimes have a lighter gun or faster gun, and with work, many guns can be that, or whatever you want.

There is a good way and a bad way to repair things, but neither is getting done, so we have to live with it i guess. All you have to do is ignore a post you don't like.

See no need to fight, now lets all calm down, and go kill some hookers...

[SCpoloRicker]

Well that was the straw that broke the camels back.

madPSIence, welcome to *ignore*.

(Continuing from, oh six months ago) thread at the bar.

And for the record: AO is about players. Not markers. Players.

AO Norcal vs Socal (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=171884&page=1&highlight=socal+norcal)

Now shut up and get off my lawn!

[Alpha]

See no need to fight, now lets all calm down, and go kill some hookers...


And come to paintballforum.com's supereor AGD forum... ;)

We should all have somethign in common here; that we have mags. This is an automags owners group. Thats what the O in AO stands for. You dont join a Chevy group and talk about fords. I know I havent been here but a few months, but I think I really was here to see i all peak.

Like I say on my website: My gun isn't the best looking. Its not the fastest. Its not the lightest or cheapest. But its mine. I like how it works. I like everything about it, including its flaws. I want to own more guns like it. And I want to show people that guns like mine are awesome.

AO used to be the essence of mags. Reguardless or not whether it is such a problem that people bash mags all the time, this site is for automags.

[BigEvil]

These threads are becoming too common. Since this is AUTOMAGS.ORG, I have to agree with Alpha.

Let us cool-aid drinkers be.

[slade]

listen to blazestorm.

maybe its because AO isnt just about hyping and praising mags. almost everyone here joined because they owned a mag, but they found a better marker they liked more. and theres no reason to leave, as you say, because AO isnt exclusively for those who use mags as their main markers. AO is about community, and that is why everyone stays. but unfortunately, the community has died somewhat, and also unfortunately i wasnt here for its peak.

[nt2004]

This is an automags owners group. Thats what the O in AO stands for.
I thought it stood for .org :tard:

[Lohman446]

So as long as I own one I can come here and bash them and your ok wiht that than? Because I recall a poll that indicated that the majority of people who responded to it owned mags on this board.

And if ownership means your opinion is worth more... and I have one of the most expensive automags purchased this year, than my opinion must be worth even more by that faulty logic. Right?

[JimmyBeam]

oh look...a dead horse. come on everyone lets go beat it some more!!

everyone is just going to have to agree to disagree. it goes with everything. every person is going to like something and at the same time dislike something else. and yes, this is the internet so opinions will be made without worrying who you piss off.

i have my views on the mag, as well as you guys have your views on my Ion. i dont want to hear your views, and you dont want to hear mine. but this forum is about paintball talk, not specific marker talk. i come here becasue there is more knowledge here than most of the other forums. but lately its just constant *****ing that goes back and forth.......who cares anymore. if you go out and enjoy a good day of paintball, does it really matter what you're shooting at the time?

[Kevmaster]

what happened to intelligent debate? what if i disagree about blah blah being a good thing related to mags. Do i shoot a mag? damn straight. Do i think its the best gun out there? prolly. does it have faults? you had better believe it.

look, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine may be that mags rock. Yours may not. I'll give you that this is a privately owned forum and the staff can delete/remove what it sees fit. However, theres no sense in bashing people who detract from mags. You're no better than they are.

Wany a forum that only praises mags? start one. see who comes. go have your 'circlejerk' as TP Put it, there. Here, we'll still have intelligent debate. I think thats what tom REALLY wanted when he built AO. If there are faults, he want(ed) to hear them. If there are bad things, he want(ed) to hear them. Nothing has changed. He doesnt (didn't) want 'yes-men'. He could have done things alot differently if he had. and a lot cheaper.

so get off your high horse and play nicely with the rest of us

[11 Bravo]

what happened to intelligent debate?

Here, we'll still have intelligent debate. I think thats what tom REALLY wanted when he built AO. If there are faults, he want(ed) to hear them. If there are bad things, he want(ed) to hear them. Nothing has changed. He doesnt (didn't) want 'yes-men'. He could have done things alot differently if he had. and a lot cheaper.

so get off your high horse and play nicely with the rest of us

I think this is what madscience was talking about. Intelligent debate. I am sure that most of us dont have a problem with the flaws being pointed out if it is in order to accomplish something other than to point out that mag owners have a p.o.s.
Point the problems of AGD out all you want but have a positive reason to do it other than to rub our faces in it.
There are problems and flaws with any marker out there. I dont run around to all the other forums and rub there face in it.

[magman007]

intelligent and madpsience do not belong to gether in the same sentance.

Do a search for his posts, and tell me if you found any thing remotely intelligent, that wasnt just a repeat of previous discussions.

[yakitori]

intelligent and madpsience do not belong to gether in the same sentance.

Do a search for his posts, and tell me if you found any thing remotely intelligent, that wasnt just a repeat of previous discussions.

and about 80 percent of them are started to spark arguments, flaming, and namecalling.

[MadPSIence]

and about 80 percent of them are started to spark arguments, flaming, and namecalling.

perhaps if 80% of my posts were in reply to yours.

a large number of my posts are indeed of debate, argument, criticism and rather liberal ideas. The thing is.. I back my posts without "flaming and namecalling"

the only people that find my posts to be flaming or insulting are the people without the intellectual capacity to participate in a debate without labeling and treating it as BS or a flame.

[MadPSIence]

intelligent and madpsience do not belong to gether in the same sentance.

Do a search for his posts, and tell me if you found any thing remotely intelligent, that wasnt just a repeat of previous discussions.

tell me what right you have to even speak or hold yourself so high when you make ridiculous flame posts such as this?

thus far you're fitting the description of repeating posts because you manage to post in every thread I debate in... only to provide substancless (sp?.. hell get me a thesaurus) and insulting posts.

[Lohman446]

maybe you should find a forum to your liking.


Why are you few people so demented


But I can say.. quit being a complete crap and shut up


Nobody here wants to hear from you.


you're just a thorn in the rear.


The thing is.. I back my posts without "flaming and namecalling"

I'm sorry, you don't troll, you don't flame, and you don't disrepect?

I'm calling shenanigans on your "innocence". You do flame people who disagree with you, and you started this thread for that purpose - it also served as an effective troll.

[MadPSIence]

I'm sorry, you don't troll, you don't flame, and you don't disrepect?

I'm calling shenanigans on your "innocence". You do flame people who disagree with you, and you started this thread for that purpose - it also served as an effective troll.

I'm sorry but you are doing a more terrible job of cutting and pasting to convince than michael moore...

All of the discected quotes of mine you just posted were not pointed towards ANY single individual.

Yet I'm sitting through people directly insulting me.. no problem them though.

So really.. I don't know how I've trolled at all. If anything you're trolling. How? You've gone through this thread... and done nothing but post off topic crap, insulting my character when enough people already are way off topic. That's trolling.

So, I've bascially thrown mild insult at unspecified people who are guilty of degrading this community. Therefore I'm a troll and flamer.

Well thought out!!

Really.. I don't want to be arguing with you. You're actually one of the people on this site I respect most and enjoy your posts outside of this thread.

[teufelhunden]

So, I've bascially thrown mild insult at unspecified people who are guilty of degrading this community.

Kettle, pot.

[MadPSIence]

Kettle, pot.

you're sitting in the kettle with a pot on your head. stop trolling. you have no useful input here. ;)

[dahoeb]

there are some good posts on here, but i don't know how much good this thread is actually doing, i think it may enflame the problem more than help :ninja:



magman007, do you realize this thread is partly about you probably?
you've never posted anything positive, and if you have, i sure as heck have never seen it. in case you haven't noticed, this is a MAG FORUM. maybe you should keep that in mind when you say how much more superior your dm4 or imp or whatever you shoot is. just a thought though.

people don't come on here to hear you say how mags suck. people come on here to get USEFUL, RELIABLE, and UNBIAS information based on facts. not to hear how much you hate mags compared to every other marker you've ever owned. this is one of the few forums around in paintball that you can still actually find useful information, and you do nothing but taint AO.

maybe you should go to pbn.

[Automaggot68]

people come on here to get USEFUL, RELIABLE, and UNBIAS information based on facts.


AO is NOT unbiased when it comes to mags.
There are ten biased people on here to everyone unbiased.


OMFG MAGS RULE.

[dahoeb]

AO is NOT unbiased when it comes to mags.
There are ten biased people on here to everyone unbiased.


OMFG MAGS RULE.

thats definately true automaggot68, but its a whole lot worse on the other major forums.

[Automaggot68]

thats definately true automaggot68, but its a whole lot worse on the other major forums.

Regardless.
Does it make it right?

I'm not even surprised that this thread is above the IAO one.(or was for a while)

[slade]

magman007, do you realize this thread is partly about you probably?
you've never posted anything positive, and if you have, i sure as heck have never seen it. in case you haven't noticed, this is a MAG FORUM. maybe you should keep that in mind when you say how much more superior your dm4 or imp or whatever you shoot is. just a thought though.

people don't come on here to hear you say how mags suck. people come on here to get USEFUL, RELIABLE, and UNBIAS information based on facts. not to hear how much you hate mags compared to every other marker you've ever owned. this is one of the few forums around in paintball that you can still actually find useful information, and you do nothing but taint AO.

maybe you should go to pbn.
as ive said before, this isnt a mag forum, its become a paintball community. i dont think ive seen him seriously (as in not joking) flame anyone for owning mags, and when he was at AONE im fairly certain no one had a problem with him... tunaman included. and in case you were wondering, for information to be useful, reliable and unbias it does not have to be pro-mag. i loved my mag, its a great gun, and some mags certainly can compete on the field... but they arent the absolute best markers, and there certainly are better deals to be found.

oh, and he owns a DM5.

[magman007]

DMC now slade :)

Dahoeb, you must not realize that i am quite pro mag, but im even more anti hype. ponder that for a moment. I am great friends with many pro maggers, tunaman, and rogue factor as well. I was a founding member of team AFTICA, i have shot mags longer than you can probabally imagine, but i have found something better, i have moved away from my cloudy notion that everything Tom made was gods gift to paintball. Mags arent bad guns, they just dont suit my style of play, where as electros do. The Sfl stopped suiting my style, i wanted no kick, so i went to the matrix. The e-mag stopped suiting me, i wanted eyes and a modular body, hence why i got a sfl, the rt was mech, so i went to an e-mag. etc etc, If this post is in relevance to me, im taking it with a grain of salt.

AO is my home away from home, Sure i surf pbn, but ao is where i started, and where i will remain, untill arsehats like the starter of this thread drive me off.

[golfy1486]

:cry: come on guys MadPSience is from Canada that why he doesnt understand

[Automaggot68]

:cry: come on guys MadPSience is from Canada that why he doesnt understand


So is Mayhem, and everyone loves him

I know I do.

;)

[Vex]

I thought it stood for .org :tard:
Actually, it's Automags Online = AO.

Automags.org is/was a community forum for owners of AGD products. Don't give me any crap about how it's "a forum for paintballers in general"--No, that would be PBN.
It is a forum for paintballers in general who use AGD products (minus the one section about Angels).
Now--there are those of you who keep saying over and over again, "AO isn't what it used to be!" Well guess what? If the Mag owners, whom this forum was intended for, would like to take AO back over and make it "the way it used to be", and you can't handle it--Deal with it in your blog! Don't pollute this forum with your spew about how "AOers are fanatical zealots who hang on TK's every word"! It's crap! If Tom Kaye says something, AO listens. Why? Because he is a trustworthy individual. He has stood behind his products and has admitted his failures. That's a quality person.
Show me any other owner's group who isn't extremely loyal to their brand!
People don't continue to buy a company's products if they are crappy!
For instance, take the Ion: It's not quite the gun that the Shocker and Impulse are, right? So why do people buy them? Because, like it or not, Smart Parts makes a quality gun. So, based off of that reputation, people will keep going back to SP.
It is no different with Automags. Jesus H. Christ--why can't people see that?
Just because AGD hasn't put out any new products in a while, doesn't discount the fact that what they have put out is quality--hell, even a good majority of the aftermarket products are revamped AGD parts--all that's changed are the looks!

Holy crap, I've digressed too much.
If you can't handle people righteously praising their Mags, don't come to Automags.Org!
Simple.

[slade]

DMC now slade :)

Dahoeb, you must not realize that i am quite pro mag, but im even more anti hype. ponder that for a moment. I am great friends with many pro maggers, tunaman, and rogue factor as well. I was a founding member of team AFTICA, i have shot mags longer than you can probabally imagine, but i have found something better, i have moved away from my cloudy notion that everything Tom made was gods gift to paintball. Mags arent bad guns, they just dont suit my style of play, where as electros do. The Sfl stopped suiting my style, i wanted no kick, so i went to the matrix. The e-mag stopped suiting me, i wanted eyes and a modular body, hence why i got a sfl, the rt was mech, so i went to an e-mag. etc etc, If this post is in relevance to me, im taking it with a grain of salt.

AO is my home away from home, Sure i surf pbn, but ao is where i started, and where i will remain, untill arsehats like the starter of this thread drive me off.
damn!

you and your discount sponsorships :p :( ...want a player for the IAO OGD next year?

heh, im actually half serious, i read the rules and i wont be able to play on either aftica or AKA. And after this year i want to play, but by the time i became interested it was too late for this year.


Automags.org is/was a community forum for owners of AGD products. Don't give me any crap about how it's "a forum for paintballers in general"--No, that would be PBN.
It is a forum for paintballers in general who use AGD products (minus the one section about Angels).
Now--there are those of you who keep saying over and over again, "AO isn't what it used to be!" Well guess what? If the Mag owners, whom this forum was intended for, would like to take AO back over and make it "the way it used to be", and you can't handle it--Deal with it in your blog! Don't pollute this forum with your spew about how "AOers are fanatical zealots who hang on TK's every word"! It's crap! If Tom Kaye says something, AO listens. Why? Because he is a trustworthy individual. He has stood behind his products and has admitted his failures. That's a quality person.
Show me any other owner's group who isn't extremely loyal to their brand!
People don't continue to buy a company's products if they are crappy!
For instance, take the Ion: It's not quite the gun that the Shocker and Impulse are, right? So why do people buy them? Because, like it or not, Smart Parts makes a quality gun. So, based off of that reputation, people will keep going back to SP.
It is no different with Automags. Jesus H. Christ--why can't people see that?
Just because AGD hasn't put out any new products in a while, doesn't discount the fact that what they have put out is quality--hell, even a good majority of the aftermarket products are revamped AGD parts--all that's changed are the looks!

Holy crap, I've digressed too much.
If you can't handle people righteously praising their Mags, don't come to Automags.Org!
Simple.
Automags.org was created as a forum for owners of automags. but it became a general paintball community (still populated largely by mag owners) when people began leaving mags for other guns, but stayed on the forum because of the community and friends they made. i dropped my mag as my main marker for a freestyle, which in my opinion is a better marker (i know many of you may differ in opinion, and that is your choice. use whatever marker you want). but i still come here and will continue coming here because i know people here, both online and especially in person, and this is where i met the team i am on now. i will not leave this forum for an ICD forum now that i changed my main marker because of that.

[SCpoloRicker]

Out here in Cal, AO is about different groups of players that come together to have fun, play clean, and enjoy each others company. AO the site helps us co-ordinate when to get together, and lets us chat about paintball and other things.

Relax, its just teh intarwebs.

:cheers:

[smilestyler]

This thread actually seems important to me. It shows how negative AO has really become towards mags. Maybe that is what is missing from the old AO.
Madpsience, keep posting. I'll still read them. If anyone is insulted by a broad insult, maybe it hit a little close to home.
Alpha, and Phaseshifter among others said it best. Why should a Mag owner have to come to AO and read through a bunch of sensless mag bashing(not constructive, just bashing). There are lots of other forums for that.
I just hope that this allows everybody to vent, so things can get back to normal. Remember when the most heated debates were about pie vs. cake. :cheers: pie wins BTW

[Vex]

In NO way am I saying "If you don't own a Mag, you shouldn't be on AO"!
I realize that a lot of people have moved away from Mags--that's not a big deal to me, and it shouldn't be to anyone else!

A lot of the AO oldhats have other markers, but they've built up a reputation here. I wouldn't and don't expect them to just disappear. However, the Mag "bashing" on this forum has to stop sometime. If you want to criticize YOUR Mag for poor performance, etc...go right ahead! Don't bash Mags altogether though! Just because YOUR experience(s) with them may not have left a good taste in your mouth, doesn't mean that everyone shares your feelings. There are a LOT of folks on here who are quite content and happy as a pig in slop with their Mags. I, for one, have never had a problem with mine in the almost 10 years that I've owned them. I just happen to like it a lot; it suits MY style of play; it's for ME.
If you don't/didn't like YOURS, tell us what you don't/didn't like about YOUR Mag(s)--and that's it.

How difficult is it really?

[CoolHand]

http://gprime.net/video.php/reallifevsinternet

Shartley = Win.

:rofl:

I laughed my hind quarters off watching that.

Thank you Sam, you just made my evening.

I have nothing else to contribute, other than to say I'm glad this is all in text. If you guys were actually speaking, the din would have drowned out all other discussion on the board.

Just break out the dueling pistols and get it over with. :shooting:

[JoshK]

I have nothing else to contribute, other than to say I'm glad this is all in text. If you guys were actually speaking, the din would have drowned out all other discussion on the board.

Just break out the dueling pistols and get it over with. :shooting:

Haha...and now that I have thought about it, and I am not half asleep, I am actually half glad you made this thread mad. It has really made me that much more prideful of my mag, because I love it...it is made for ME.

No after that being said...I have nothing else to say.

[Conversekidz]

I read the first couple of post, and decided not to read the rest and just say my 2 cents of my feelings about this site.

I personally owned a mag for 10 years, i loved the thing, then i realized the style of play has evolved and have moved on to a e-marker.

This is my take on the site, I think its pointless and dumb when people come to this site and bash on mags, expecially when they are comparing a mechanical gun to an electric gun. I mean honestly, it would be like bashing a mechanical spyder and saying a DM5 is a better gun, its two different style of markers.

If you are going to be bashing a mag, and you are bashing it based off a mechanical marker then you have a foot to stand on. If you are bashing it because its a different class of gun that you are comparing it to, that is just plain stupid.

Pretty soon I could see people bashing pump markers because they can't shoot as fast as a ramping timmy.

The mag has its place, its place is in the mechanical world. In that world its an excellent gun for what it was designed for. Its an awsome gun for a front player, its small, light (when compared to the other technology of the time) and got enough shots of that was required for that style of play.

If you think your timmy is better than a mag, then yes congrats you have the number one cheating gun in the industry, that must make it better.

[MadPSIence]

You know I went into this thread really thinking I may get torn apart. But for the most part I'm proud I did. I'm happy to see a lot of people here still have that AGD Pride.

Mags don't have to be the best gun on earth for people to love them. And you know what? To some people they are the greatest. And to anyone saying this is a general paintball forum. It's not. General paintball discussion is here but this place is sacred to mag owners.. and as long as the name is automags.org.. people need to have respect for the product and company this community is built around.

Once again, there may be a general paintball talk forum, even an angel owners forum and an off topic forum. But you still need to look at the words in the titlebar of the window and just have respect.

[magman007]

Paintball Talk is the main forum for Automags.org. Here is where we talk about the sport of paintball in general and make announcements relating to the forum and website


I think that sums it up that it is a paintball comunity, and everyone can voice their opinion however they wish. if they couldnt, more people would be banned wouldnt they?

[MadPSIence]

Paintball Talk is the main forum for Automags.org. Here is where we talk about the sport of paintball in general and make announcements relating to the forum and website


I think that sums it up that it is a paintball comunity, and everyone can voice their opinion however they wish. if they couldnt, more people would be banned wouldnt they?

this thread was never about a right to opinion. it was about respect for the people who are primarily at home on this site.

[yakitori]

perhaps if 80% of my posts were in reply to yours.

a large number of my posts are indeed of debate, argument, criticism and rather liberal ideas. The thing is.. I back my posts without "flaming and namecalling"

the only people that find my posts to be flaming or insulting are the people without the intellectual capacity to participate in a debate without labeling and treating it as BS or a flame.

Hmmm... short of one tit from Jane Fonda. Cheater (w/o reading my point of view on it), and how many other names?

ya, right.....w/o flaming or name calling.

Maybe you should click on your own name and do a "find all posts by this user" search on yourself, and read some of your comments. Then you would actually have some proof to back up my point.

Maybe not 80 percent of your posts are to encourage arguing, of which you are invovled in yourself, but a large percentage of it is.

[slade]

Pretty soon I could see people bashing pump markers because they can't shoot as fast as a ramping timmy.
...if that was going to happen, it would have happened long ago.


If you think your timmy is better than a mag, then yes congrats you have the number one cheating gun in the industry, that must make it better.
...thats the kind of comments that got this thread started. there is a general sentiment in the paintball community that some electros are better than mags - as they often are for speedball - and mag owners/mag fans are annoyed with that, because mags are still great guns, and then they (and yeah, i know you shoot/shot a freestyle) say things like that about any electro (besides mags) and draw mention to cheating, which annoys anyone with said electro (and many of the people on this board who remain even though they no longer shoot a mag have one of the guns that have been looked down upon for any reason by mag owners) and that starts the conflict.


And to anyone saying this is a general paintball forum. It's not. General paintball discussion is here but this place is sacred to mag owners.. and as long as the name is automags.org.. people need to have respect for the product and company this community is built around.
the name doesnt matter, it isnt ultimate. this is not a static site. it is shaped by the community that inhabits it, and although it was created as a mag site that is not what it has become. it is closer to a general paintball community, a large portion of which are mag owners. but then again, that is a somewhat pointless matter not worth further discussion.

[shank the wiggles]

I think the mags coming out today are nothing what I thought they would have been a year ago on this forum and this forum has brought them a long way. Its only a matter of time before the people trash talking AGD start to see the nice gats automags.org put out and regret it.

[Echo419]

Mags are more personal to the owners, many of us spend time building are mags piece by piece greatly anticipating the arival of the peculiar mail man with our parts... So what if we are way over enthusiastic and praise our guns way past there worth... If we <3 our mags, and will make them sound better than we know they are, thats because we love our gun.. and that add bps... :) So everyone leave our cute little mags alone.

[Conversekidz]

...thats the kind of comments that got this thread started. there is a general sentiment in the paintball community that some electros are better than mags - as they often are for speedball - and mag owners/mag fans are annoyed with that, because mags are still great guns, and then they (and yeah, i know you shoot/shot a freestyle) say things like that about any electro (besides mags) and draw mention to cheating, which annoys anyone with said electro (and many of the people on this board who remain even though they no longer shoot a mag have one of the guns that have been looked down upon for any reason by mag owners) and that starts the conflict.
.

I don't shoot the freestyle anymore, and i still think the freestyle is what the e-mag should have evolved to (less the issues I had with ICD that I think AGD would have not let happen).

My gear bag is right now contains a custom milled timmy (did the work myself, and I never shoot), a 04 viking, a racegun halfblock cocker, old school right feed cocker (trying to decide how to do this one up), a tippman 68 and an a-5, as as soon as I get some more money I'm going to search out a x-mag with a predator board.

Honestly out of all the guns that I have right now, I still miss having a mag, nothing that I have shot has been as small or as easy to snap out of a bunker as the mag was. The only thing that comes close is the racegun halfblock.

and I made that comment about the timmys to make a point, people can talk down about other guns and say theirs is better, but at the same time people have certain hang ups with the guns they are touting as the "top gun". When people say timmy, people automatically go to "ramping/cheating/overshooting/paintwaster" gun in their minds, crap even timmy owners say its the ultimate cheater gun because of the boards and how fast they ramp.

My friend and I both had the new NME LE (yes its a timmy clone) that had the new ramping was board. We played one day with them and both looked at each other and said "wow....do you feel like we are cheating right now? yea...." and we sold the guns off a week later. I never felt like that when I played with my mag, i knew that my classic mag was only shooting the speed it was shooting because of what I as a player was doing.


I still think that as a mechanical gun, the mag tops the field.

[11 Bravo]

This is not the general discussion forum. To get in here you have to click on Automag owners. There is a section for general discussion if you want to trash mags go in there and do it. No one has said that you cant be here - just be respectful.

.

[Kai]

so you are saying he is a communist? because we dont take kindly to communists

=(

[magman007]

=(


well except for you, we like you

[Kai]

well except for you, we like you

=)

[Target Practice]

=)

Hello, Kai! How are you?

[Kai]

Hello, Kai! How are you?

I'm doing okay.

I'm just coming off of a two-month ban, so I have to be good now. If you could just pretend that I'm being a jerk, and making posts that would get me banned, that would make for much smoother sailing.

[Target Practice]

I'm doing okay.

I'm just coming off of a two-month ban, so I have to be good now. If you could just pretend that I'm being a jerk, and making posts that would get me banned, that would make for much smoother sailing.

I take offense to that, you commie bastard!

<Sure thing, chief. Good to have you back.>

[dahoeb]

well first of all,
i would like to thank magman007. he responded to my remarks on the last page, and now i see a little sense behind the stuff he says. i'm glad i at least see where hes coming from now so in the future i won't take offense to what he says.

oh, and second of all, i really do think that this thread has sorta burned out. its time to die, thread, its just time to die. :cry:

[slade]

...yeah, i could post something to reply, but i think i second the dying motion...

oh wait, we have to mention hitler now to commence the death of the thread...

umm... hitler would have said what kai did about schoolgirls?

[magman007]

well first of all,
i would like to thank magman007. he responded to my remarks on the last page, and now i see a little sense behind the stuff he says. i'm glad i at least see where hes coming from now so in the future i won't take offense to what he says.

oh, and second of all, i really do think that this thread has sorta burned out. its time to die, thread, its just time to die. :cry:


Its all good, im glad you see im not some hardened jackarse. and that you understand where im comming from in these types of threads