New Tac-One having problems

[TAC-ELF]

Let me give you a bit of background: I've had this marker for only 2 weeks and it's only been used once in a game on July 30th.

Now, I've done a considerable amount of reading on this board and learned some of the terms necessary for 'mag troubleshooting and setup. My setup is as follows:

- Gun uses stock barrel (2-piece unmarked aluminum, no idea what the bore is).
- PMI premium paint
- Level10 is set up with carrier #1 (one line), 2 shims, and a slightly shorter spring than the longest one that came in my package -- the so called "middle" spring, but it doesn't look like there was a coil cut off. It is only slightly shorter than the longest one, and significantly longer than the next size spring down.
- ULT trigger, 5 shims. This leads to a very light trigger, but I really don't know what the shims do.
- Pure Energy 4500psi HPA tank with 850psi preset regulator.

My problems are as follows:
===================
1. Gun will not reset all the time: It will shoot several times very rapidly, then the bolt will get stuck and I'll hear gas venting down the barrel. As far as I can see, I'm near the top of the adjustment I can make to the air pressure (x-valve reg is turned almost completely clockwise as far as it will go)

2. When I was able to get a read on the paint's FPS, I was seeing over 300.

3. Before ever putting in the "middle" spring, I was running with the shortest spring. That lead to wildly fluctuating velocities and venting out the back of the gun on occasion.

I've already emailed tech-support and they indicated the valve might be dirty or some loctite was built up somewhere around the front-half of the valve. I took the valve apart and everything was clean as far as I could tell -- just a nice light coating of oil. Sorry, I don't know the terms of the parts in the xvalve, but all the seals seemed fine as well.

Would someone please help me get this thing running consistently? Sorry for being such a n00b, but I figured the gun would work well out of the box and I'm a little frustrated now... I've never worked on a gun of this caliber: My experience is with tippmanns and pump-action markers.

Thanks all in advance.

[Chronobreak]

few things to try

use the largest carrier that doesnt leak.

might need to add another shim to the lvlX( i did for a few weeks til mine broke in better.


the problems your describing are common with breaking in a mag, and the ult/lvlX dont help.

i suggest degassing the gun and oiling everything lsightly.

take out the on/off and oil the pin and o-rings. also takeout the reg pistin and make sure that is oiled. and add a drop or two to the valve opening or as close as you can to it.

also a little bit of LUBE on the bolt stem seems to help alot as well.

my suggestion is get a couple fills and just use it fine tunning/breaking in.

[Severe]

I've seen this happen on my Level 10's when the carrier is just too tight. The L10 on return from firing hangs on the oring. Once you release the trigger it starts venting down the barrel heavily.

Trying going up one size on your carrier. Meaning a little larger, so the 1.5 carrier.

Since you appear to be shooting hot, go ahead and back off the velocity 1/4 turn. This might drop your to the mid 280s depending on how hot you were, but that shouldn't be a problem.

Oil the heck out of it.

I can't help you on the ULT but it doesn't sound like that's the problem anyhow.

Oh, and on the middle spring, the newer ones don't have a cut coil so it looks like the long spring. I think they are painted red however.

[TAC-ELF]

I've seen this happen on my Level 10's when the carrier is just too tight. The L10 on return from firing hangs on the oring. Once you release the trigger it starts venting down the barrel heavily.

Trying going up one size on your carrier. Meaning a little larger, so the 1.5 carrier.

Since you appear to be shooting hot, go ahead and back off the velocity 1/4 turn. This might drop your to the mid 280s depending on how hot you were, but that shouldn't be a problem.

Oil the heck out of it.

I can't help you on the ULT but it doesn't sound like that's the problem anyhow.

Oh, and on the middle spring, the newer ones don't have a cut coil so it looks like the long spring. I think they are painted red however.

Thanks: I tried the 1.5 carrier as well last night (using the same o-ring) and the same thing was happening. Doesn't matter if I release the trigger or not, once the bolt gets stuck it vents heavily -- ended up wasting almost all my air between these two carriers (1.0 and 1.5). Is this an indication I need to go up another carrier size (2.0)?

[TAC-ELF]

few things to try

use the largest carrier that doesnt leak.

might need to add another shim to the lvlX( i did for a few weeks til mine broke in better.


the problems your describing are common with breaking in a mag, and the ult/lvlX dont help.

i suggest degassing the gun and oiling everything lsightly.

take out the on/off and oil the pin and o-rings. also takeout the reg pistin and make sure that is oiled. and add a drop or two to the valve opening or as close as you can to it.

also a little bit of LUBE on the bolt stem seems to help alot as well.

my suggestion is get a couple fills and just use it fine tunning/breaking in.

Sorry, I don't really understand the parts you're referring to (on/off, and regulator piston). I have only a blowup of the valve as part of my documentation and that's only listed with numbers not part names. I'm still trying to figure out just how a 'mag works but without some good cutaway diagrams of the entire mechanical operation, it's slow going.

Anyways, if you're referring to the ULT trigger drop-in I've taken that out and apart several times and made sure it's well lubed. I've also taken the halves of the xvalve apart and lubed everything I can get out of it, then reassembled.

I'll try adding a shim to the Level10 bolt.

[TAC-ELF]

few things to try

use the largest carrier that doesnt leak.

might need to add another shim to the lvlX( i did for a few weeks til mine broke in better.



Question: By "using the largest carrier that doesn't leak" how can I tell? Right now I have leaking down the barrel and the bolt gets stuck after firing a few times. When the bolt gets stuck, it vents quite a bit down the barrel. The white carrier o-ring seems snug against the bolt stem (yet it is lubed). Is this a different kind of leaking you're referring to?

Question: What exactly do the Level10 shims do? I'm still trying to figure out the whole mechanical operation of the marker...

[Severe]

The Level 10 shimes adjust the point at which the allow for a higher volume of air passage. For trouble shooting purposed you can remove ALL of the shims in your level 10. If you have added to many, you can potentially cause for a leak down the barrel also.

As far as the carrier size, typically it should be slightly snug. It's hard to relate this in text but with the carrier out of the power tube, place it on the end of the level 10. It should go one with a little less resistance than clicking a ball-point pen....if that makes sense.

Also, BESURE you're putting everything back together correctly!! Order of items to place in the power tube:

white plastic washer, then the carrier with the oring towards the plastic washer, (for now leave out the shims), then the power tube tip. If the 1.5 carrier is still having the bolt stick forward, try the 2.0 carrier. Even if it slightly leaks, let's get the bolt stick problem solved then we'll back the carrier down again.

Put everything back together and give it a shot...pun intended.

Just to cover all the bases, besure ULT is assembled and installed correctly, including the small white o-ring on top. I don't think this is a ULT issue, but better safe than sorry.

[TAC-ELF]

The Level 10 shimes adjust the point at which the allow for a higher volume of air passage. For trouble shooting purposed you can remove ALL of the shims in your level 10. If you have added to many, you can potentially cause for a leak down the barrel also.

As far as the carrier size, typically it should be slightly snug. It's hard to relate this in text but with the carrier out of the power tube, place it on the end of the level 10. It should go one with a little less resistance than clicking a ball-point pen....if that makes sense.

Also, BESURE you're putting everything back together correctly!! Order of items to place in the power tube:

white plastic washer, then the carrier with the oring towards the plastic washer, (for now leave out the shims), then the power tube tip. If the 1.5 carrier is still having the bolt stick forward, try the 2.0 carrier. Even if it slightly leaks, let's get the bolt stick problem solved then we'll back the carrier down again.

Put everything back together and give it a shot...pun intended.

Just to cover all the bases, besure ULT is assembled and installed correctly, including the small white o-ring on top. I don't think this is a ULT issue, but better safe than sorry.

Will do and thanks for the advice. Yes, the UTL has a white o-ring at the top -- the little silver pin slides through it, and I believe there's another white o-ring along the top's outer edge.

Just for clarity: So you're saying the Level10 shims alter the change-over point between the bolt's low speed motion past the paintball stack, and its high speed motion seating and firing the actual paintball. More shims do what, as opposed to less or no shims?

[Severe]

You got it. More shims make that point occur much sooner in the trigger cycle and the bolt travel. That way when you pinch a ball, as the trigger is completely pulled, the air aill vent/escape without chopping the ball and the bolt will reset.

[TAC-ELF]

I did a few things and now the gun is at least back where it started:

1. Removed both Level10 shims. I'm now running w/ zero
2. Changed back to the smallest spring
3. Removed all but 2 of the ULT shims

What happened then when I gassed up the gun: When I pulled the trigger, the gun would go into rapid-fire mode. That is, without paint in the gun. When there was paint, the gun would stick and not reset.

Next step: Turned DOWN the velocity adjuster, gassed up again, and TADA the gun fired and reset accordingly. Stuck my thumb down the feed neck, and the bolt hit my thumb and then reset again when I let go of the trigger (but only when I let go of the trigger).

So now I'm basically back where I started. I have a gun which no longer sticks and fails to reset when paint is in the gun, but I'm still getting variable velocity: 256 - 291fps.

So let's rehash my gun's current setup:
1. Level10: No shims, carrier 1.0, smallest bolt spring
2. ULT: 2 shims -- nice and light feel to the trigger.
3. Stock barrel

What's the next step folks?

Update
Changed to 1.5 carrier: Still works and velocity is somewhat more consistent. Not what I would call perfect (still fluctuates between 269 and 283) but tighter around 275. I tried the 2.0 carrier and it vented down the barrel when I gassed up so I went back to 1.5. I then added my 2 Level 10 shims back in and everything still works.

So I guess I can at least play this coming weekend. I'm still curious what happens when I put the middle spring back on, as I'm betting I'm somewhere near the top velocity I can get with the smallest spring.

Thoughts anyone?

[Severe]

Glad to hear she's working better.

You should be ok to put the middle spring in. Just bump up the velocity a little when you do to adjust for the spring.

You can expect for a slight barrel leak to develop after a case or three of paint has been through the marker. This is just the carrier o-ring getting broken in. When it does, do NOT change the oring, just the carrier down one size.

After that, everything should be golden!

[TAC-ELF]

Glad to hear she's working better.

You should be ok to put the middle spring in. Just bump up the velocity a little when you do to adjust for the spring.

You can expect for a slight barrel leak to develop after a case or three of paint has been through the marker. This is just the carrier o-ring getting broken in. When it does, do NOT change the oring, just the carrier down one size.

After that, everything should be golden!

;) ;) ;) Yeah, I realized that simple step (change the carrier but not the oring) after thinking about it for awhile. For some reason I originally believed the carriers for different along the outside diameter, not the inside diameter. It's just one of those things that you have to think about in order to really understand why. ;) ;) ;)

So it is normal for the velocity to juggle around a bit while the reg seals wear in a little, too?

Thanks again for all your help, Severe! :hail: If you're ever in Seattle I'll buy the beer :cheers:

[Severe]

No problem at all!

One thing that occured to me is that your chrono variations could be from how you're chrono'ing. Are you following the proceedures for chrono'ing the RT/X valve?

Give this a read: http://www.airgun.com/rtchrono.shtml

Otherwise, I think you'll see it will settle down soon enough.

If I ever get out that way, I'll take you up on that beer! :cheers: