The failure of IAO

[Lohman446]

I need to preface any remarks by this. The Owners Group Division that Kevin organized was the most fun I have ever had in a tournament. It also had a level of sportsmanship and fair play that I never honestly expected to see ever. The reffing was absolutely stellar, the tournament and the days around it will go down as some of my best memories in paintball. I told Kevin when I left this year that I would be there next year, mean that, the OG positives far outshone the negatives that the promotors of IAO seemed to put out there.

The list:
The vendors: Notably missing: Dye, WDP, K2, Planet Eclipse, to name a few. I don't blame them, I have heard rumors of ridiculous prices to set up, and the fact of the matter is there was not much traffic.

The fields: Ok, one of the fields (that we played OG on) sucked. It was neither grassy nor level, in fact it seemed to be on a parking lot with 8-10 foot wide gravel strips on it, on the tape line where low movement and sliding where critical. The back corner was so far down a hill that it could not see the opposite tape line. I do not think any of the fields were uniformly (or even reasonably) grassy and level. Further, the refs had to go blow up four or five bunkers about every three games because they leaked so much.

The paint: Now, any problems I had with Hellfire in my mag are 100% my fault, I should have known better. The Blaze was extremely bouncey - perhaps it always is, though I am told the Inferno was ok (did not use it myself). That being said I watched a pallet left outside, in the sun an entire day. The paint prices $75 for Blaze are utterly ridiculous, especially when a title sponsor is Draxxus. I'm not against a profit, but how much money are the organizers of this event making?

The organization: Remember, that none of this applies to the OG. Kevin was very well organized, and kept things rolling at a comfortable pace. I watched the 7 man one day where they were almost an hour ahead of the printed schedule. I watched them tell one team that they had to be on field early or forfeit, that team hurried so much they went out a marker short. They played seven man on two fields, surely not a good turnout...

The price: I said that I would play OG anywhere, despite the cost, because it was that great. I feel that the organizers took financial advantage of the players of the owners group. I'll drop the gauntlet - Kevin made the owners group, Kevin and the founding teams - I'm going where they are, be it IAO or any other venue. I'll pay the price to play with these great people, whatever it is, but I feel absolutely no loyalty to IAO. I never was given figures, I did hear some rumors, and I think that IAO charged Kevin plenty per team to allow us to play at IAO. BTW - the sponsors of the OG, I am very grateful to, but I dare say that there loyalty is to Kevin, and not IAO. My point is, the IAO promotors (I think) made good money off the OG - and they are minimal in its draw towards its players or sponsors. Thats my opinion, again I really do not know anything certain here.

Had I been there for IAO and "normal" competition, I would be very unhappy with it. I was not, Kevin, the players, and those associated with the OG, made this one of my greatest paintball experiences ever. I give absolutely no credit for that to the IAO - in fact I think you guys detracted from it, I give it 100% to Kevin, the OG sponsors, the OG players, and the refs (the only good thing supplied by IAO - and I doubt there fully loyal to them either).

[LudavicoSoldier]

Well put! :headbang:

[Target Practice]

Just remember, the IAO has nothing to do with paintball.

[PsychoBaller]

Other than the increase in participation and support for the Owners Group Division, I have unfortunately noticed a decline in the overall quality status of the IAO.

I attended IAO for the 2003 and 2004 events. The 2003 was fantastic. But then in 2004, there was a significant decrease in attendance by Vendors, Players and what have you. I did not attend IAO 05' in fear it would not meet the expectations of the previous events.

Granted I missed out on a fun time with fellow AO'ers at IAO 05', what event hanging out with fellow AO'ers isnt fun?? I'm sad I didnt go only for this reason alone. Otherwise, i have abandoned my IAO support for its cutting of corners, and getting shabby in all other aspects.

-the "disappointed again" baller

[Sheazer]

I think some vendors were unable to attend because it was what, a week after NPPL Denver? I'm not sure if theres any substance to that, but it's a possibility.

[Lohman446]

I think some vendors were unable to attend because it was what, a week after NPPL Denver? I'm not sure if theres any substance to that, but it's a possibility.


Well I respect the time table and understand there may have been issues it was logistically possible. I cannot imagine three years ago any vendor ignoring IAO. It just seems its promotors have failed to draw a crowd, and draw vendors. What order did it happen in is anyones guess... but I put the full fault of IAOs failure on the promtors. Its not like building an event from the ground - they had, recently what was arguably the most well known tournament in paintball.

[magman007]

for the record, dye could have attended, but chose not to, they were setting up for the psp event already, they were in the area, easily could have attended, but chose not to. I reccomend everyone head over to matrixowner.com and read Hawks review in the tournaments and fields section, and the flagpull review as well

[ScottQ]

correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the denver nppl the week before last year as well?

NPS had a 20% sale on saturday because they couldnt sell ANYTHING.

[Sheazer]

NPS was a joke, you could get most vendors to come down, but not NPS.

[ntn4502]

NPS was a joke, you could get most vendors to come down, but not NPS.

what?

[Spartan X]

What would you guys think about Making our own event? Maybe we could start a altimate fund for a Field of our own. The woners group field. Which could be transfered for owners groups meets at the cost of shipping if the said owners group had contributed to the field.

Heck, maybe we will have to see how good these new cheap extreme rage bunker hold up, that may be a cool option.

Just a thunk....I'm sure people in the groups have paint hook ups and scuba tank and we could find the right place to set up our own field in the future....

[Lohman446]

What would you guys think about Making our own event? Maybe we could start a altimate fund for a Field of our own. The woners group field. Which could be transfered for owners groups meets at the cost of shipping if the said owners group had contributed to the field.

Heck, maybe we will have to see how good these new cheap extreme rage bunker hold up, that may be a cool option.

Just a thunk....I'm sure people in the groups have paint hook ups and scuba tank and we could find the right place to set up our own field in the future....


I am sure many of the people on the OG have contacts that far surpass mine. If it came down to it we could "host" events at our local fields - I know that I could have an air ball field with quality refs for a day or two at a field with compressors and everything else for A LOT less than what the rumor is Deb charged Kevin.

I'm sure that many members of many teams have the same availability, or far better. The people of the OG tended towards older, having been involved longer, and had personalities that tell me they have many contacts.

[SlartyBartFast]

So, why not have the following next year:

IOGO - International Owners Group Open :D

with an amateur open run as a subevent. :p


Considering the IAO prices, what exactly did any of the sponsorship get the participants? Seems you all could have done without the few vendors, paid about the same, and played at any field in North America.

[Lohman446]

So, why not have the following next year:

IOGO - International Owners Group Open :D

with an amateur open run as a subevent. :p


Considering the IAO prices, what exactly did any of the sponsorship get the participants? Seems you all could have done without the few vendors, paid about the same, and played at any field in North America.

Thats kind of what I was thinking. I'm wherever Kevin wants it next year, but it seems to me we could have paid the same or less in entrance, less in paint, and played, as you said, anywhere in North America. Like I said, I have no complaints with how Kevin handled anything, and if he chooses for reasons I do nto know to hold it at IAO next year (if it exists) because Kevin, the players, the supporters, and the refs made it that great of an event. Take away the things that have to do with IAO and I have absolutely nothing negative to say about the event and only extreme positives. As it was the OG overcame the negatives of IAO to be a truly awesome experience.

[rkjunior303]

correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the denver nppl the week before last year as well?

NPS had a 20% sale on saturday because they couldnt sell ANYTHING.

Good thing I waited! I scored an Empire Ultimate Gear Bag for $88!

[Muzikman]

Well, you have to look at it this way.

IAO supplied the Venue, Field, Refs, the overhead in paint prices, a players party. Trust me, there is no way Kevin could have done all that and charged less for entry and that he did. The only thing that would be cheaper was paint.

The IAO has been going down hill since the first year they moved it to the fair grounds (2002). In 2003 Dye had a BUNCH of stuff stolen overnight, they have not been back since.

Also, in 2003 PSP and NPPL split. This created 5 more events a year. This split up the teams, and although there are more people playing these days, I think people would rather play a series event rather than a single event.

I thought IOA being connected with NPPL this year (and last) would have brought the event up, but that obviously isn't happening, and I would be shocked to see IAO as an NPPL event next year.

I don't blame Team Effort for the failing of IAO, I don't think it's that they are not "in tune", I just don't think that there are many "Large" events any more (except maybe World Cup).

BTW: you were playing in the parking lot of the fairground. (and find me 10 sq feet of totally flat land in Western PA :) ...Though, that field did suck).

[Lohman446]

IAO supplied the Venue, Field, Refs, the overhead in paint prices, a players party. Trust me, there is no way Kevin could have done all that and charged less for entry and that he did. The only thing that would be cheaper was paint.

I disagree, though I do not know, nor should I the split of money in. The venue no doubt cost money, but I think it could be replaced cheaper. The player's party - the other parties suited the OG just fine. Fields and refs - well, I think they could have been found cheaper. I agree with you on base, but not here... I think someone (and not Kevin) made a tremendous profit on the OG while letting Kevin handle the work of it.

[Muzikman]

I am sure they did, but I am also sure they lost money else where. Events are also setup to make money. If they were not making money, I don't think the IAO would have lasted 15 years. I am not so much defending them, but have been to enough and played enough IAO's to know that it is about money, and I am sure they are not rolling in it this year.

[rkjunior303]

I am sure they did, but I am also sure they lost money else where. Events are also setup to make money. If they were not making money, I don't think the IAO would have lasted 15 years. I am not so much defending them, but have been to enough and played enough IAO's to know that it is about money, and I am sure they are not rolling in it this year.


...i think they made plenty of money, with RMOG shooting 21 cases.

[Kevmaster]

for those of you concerned about the future of the OGD as a whole.

rest with ease. The OGD will continue and it will be fine. The staff at the OGD is commited to continuing the previous successes we've had. We will continue the OGD and at the moment, it looks like it will be at the IAO again next year. There are no confirmed details, however, regarding the location, time or substance of next year's OGD.

[Lohman446]

for those of you concerned about the future of the OGD as a whole.

rest with ease. The OGD will continue and it will be fine. The staff at the OGD is commited to continuing the previous successes we've had. We will continue the OGD and at the moment, it looks like it will be at the IAO again next year. There are no confirmed details, however, regarding the location, time or substance of next year's OGD.


I'll be there, tell me when, where, and what bank account to plunder :D

[Cameo]

The fields: Ok, one of the fields (that we played OG on) sucked. It was neither grassy nor level, in fact it seemed to be on a parking lot with 8-10 foot wide gravel strips on it, on the tape line where low movement and sliding where critical. The back corner was so far down a hill that it could not see the opposite tape line. I do not think any of the fields were uniformly (or even reasonably) grassy and level. Further, the refs had to go blow up four or five bunkers about every three games because they leaked so much.



Those gravel paths are very important... Just imagine it.. 3 very tired kids who have been riding rides all day, eating fair food, and fighting over who gets the last of the cotton candy.. "now where was that darn car, I never realized how many cars fit back here... oh yea. follow the first gravel path, then turn onto the 5th intersecting gravel path second car on the left" Belive me after seeing the usefulness of the gravel paths on the 4th of july I did not mind the 8-10 foot wide paths between the deadbox and the back soda cans. :dance:

[oldsoldier]

Kev, and the original OGD captains, have taken all of this into consideration. The OGD will continue on. a stand alone event probably isnt feasible, not at this time. Kev is still in college, and getting something like this together requires alot of time. I think, be tween all of us, we can do OK next year, regardless of where it ends up.
The first year I went to IAO I was amazed. It was the first time I met most of the people who have since become good friends of mine. Now, every year, I look forward to seeing those same folks, and meeting new ones. Most of you know that AFTICA is about shenanigans and fun times, and not out there to particularly compete. both years of the OGD were fun, this year a huge step forward. There will still be some growing pains, but, I think Kev really took all our concerns last year to heart. And, the fact that POG got BBQ for everyone...that was amazing. You just dont see that ANYWHERE in PB anymore. THAT'S what makes the OGD. Paintball is almost just an excuse for all of us to get together. However, I think that we need to piggyback it on other events, at least for the next few years. Who knows, maybe someday this will be a yearly stand alone event. and, all of us can say we were there at the beginning.

[Lohman446]

Kev, and the original OGD captains, have taken all of this into consideration.

Thats the important part of the statement right there. I voiced my concerns - I know that the group that makes the decisions are smart enough to have known them themselves, and I trust the group that helped set up this event to make the decisions that are right for it. I'll be there next year, barring an act of God.

[Jonesie]

Sounds like exactly what happened to the Mardi Gras Open. The year I went, 2003? there was an apparent lack of vendors and players, not to mention the $75 paint prices...

[Muzikman]

Sounds like exactly what happened to the Mardi Gras Open. The year I went, 2003? there was an apparent lack of vendors and players, not to mention the $75 paint prices...


Difference is that the MGO is only a few years old. This was the 15th year for the IAO. It WAS the largest Am event in the world. I think the only larger event was World Cup.

[Marchborne]

Sounds like exactly what happened to the Mardi Gras Open. The year I went, 2003? there was an apparent lack of vendors and players, not to mention the $75 paint prices...


Yeah. Jonesie, it was 2003. Crappy weather, but good times. It used to be, vendors showed the new season's products at the MGO, and then capped off the "product season" at the IAO. Now, meh, so many events, so little time.

Obviously, IAO has been running longer than the MGO, but the decline of both events is very similar.