Has any tried the Apex barrel?

[FSU_Paintball]

Ripped from PBN. I gotta get me one of these.

BT stands for Ben Tippmann... they're the ones who release all those paintball guns made to look like M-16s and stuff. Anyways, they've got a new barrel out that uses the same crappy theory as the Flatline, but works a whole lot better.

It's got an adjuster on the end which lets you adjust how much backspin/curve on the ball you want, and which direction you want it to curve in. So basically, it's a flatline that isn't monstrously long, can be used on any gun, can be quickly turned on and off, and is completely adjustable in terms of curve sharpness and direction. That's just freakin awesome. Manike already swears by his new one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/icouldbeahero/apex.jpg

I'm definitely buying one for scenarios. Looks like fun :)

[Mr. Mouse]

lol i love the diagrams

[slade]

...

im sceptical. i want to know how they claim it works.

[FSU_Paintball]

Manike says it works well, that's good enough for me

[vf-xx]

It should work in theory. I haven't seen one in person, but it appears to have a plate or something that catches one side of a paintball leaving the barrel and slows it down giving it spin. Theoretically you can adjust it to spin any direction out of the barrel.

I used to do that a long time ago with pumps. If I licked my finger than touched the edge of the barrel I could make the paintball spin that way. Problem is, it's really really hard to aim.

[ojhspyro89]

Wait is it a barrel or just that little thing? Heck, i want to put it on my game during Xball... thatd be fun. How much are they?

[manike]

Adding my post from PBN...

I must admit was very skeptical when I heard about this, but I'm a convert now.

I'm one of the few people that has actually shot this thing, and I'll tell you what, it's one of the first new products to make me smile in paintball in a VERY long time. When I saw Ben shooting it I couldn't wait to grab it out of his hands.

I was actually using this at the recent Skirmish 'Invasion of Normandy' game and I definitely used it to good effect, pushing back players at range so my guys could move up, and shooting out players by divebombing the balls down on top of them when we were halted on the beach.

One of my friends behind me was stunned by what the barrel was doing.

I personally would NEVER have used a flatline barrel, nor a Z-body or Cooper T bolt. Ever. I've never been a fan of spin devices.

This I will have on my gun whenever I go into the woods or play recreationally. Seriously.

It actually works VERY consistently.

You can add just a small amount of spin and get flatter shots with a similar to normal accuracy spread, but you can aim through gaps better because of the flatter trajectory. Amazing for use in the woods and bunkers with holes (like ones made from logs etc.)

You can absolutely shoot down over bunkers at relatively close range to eliminate people that thought they were safely hidden.

You can swerve it around doorways and bunkers to hit people you couldn't normally shoot.

Maybe the advert showing a 90degree side turn is a little off, but as the ball slows down the spin is quite pronounced. You may have to aim wider for the ball to come back in, but it's astounding how well it works.

It is very NEW, I've never seen a system before where you can angle the direction of spin with such repeatability (and tilting your gun doesn't even come close). The end piece of the barrel actually rotates so you have infinite adjustment possibilities, I've also never seen a system reliably work with an adjustable amount of spin, the galactic Z-body was crap and never consistent. This is.

I've also never seen a system that you can adjust to your paint so well, if you have brittle paint you need only apply enough spin to get results without breaking the paint.

It also works at high rates of fire... this on my new promaster had to be seen to be believed.

And one of the best features! You can turn it ON and OFF very quickly. So if you don't want spin you don't have to have it and can just play normally...

I'll need to check but when I tried it I don't think I got any noticeable change in velocity.

[slade]

scepticism gone. its simon.

[cuttydiamond]

How much are they and where can i get one?

[Boydster]

Please tell me it'll be available for more guns than Tippmann's.

[JoshK]

it's a flatline that isn't monstrously long, can be used on any gun,

Answer for person above me.

[Alpha]

Yeah.. Good luck with that.

More hype then anything.

I dont doubt it curves the ball nicely.

But how does the paintball know EXACTLY where to curve? It would only be good in a situation where you are x distance away from someone.

[sanity]

Please tell me it'll be available for more guns than Tippmann's.

Promaster = ICD = more than just tippmann ;)

[PsychoBaller]

I think Manike is either right... as he's been trustworthy in the past... or just plain :tard: and over the hill... :D

I definately was looking for some flatline barrels to help me out during recent D-Day. Everyone holds the line on either side just out of reach of each other, heh.

Also, I agree bout the 90* curving pictures... bit much... but seeing normal flatlines at work with they range... this looks promising.

[Evil Bob]

But how does the paintball know EXACTLY where to curve? It would only be good in a situation where you are x distance away from someone.

Its got a slider on it that adjusts the level of spin. Light for longer paths, heavy for shorter distances before curving. Basicly, you watch where the balls are going and adjust accordingly with the slider as to where you want it to start curving at, that's your "know" answer. Plus you can change the direction of spin by rotating the tip.

Used to do something similar with the tipman flatline by angling the m98 right and left, drop the FPS to control where it starts curving. This new toy is more simplified in that you dont have to mess with the markers velocity settings to dial in where you want it to start curving at.

-Evil Bob

[Jaan]

At first I thought I was on the Coast to Coast AM web site ... but then I noticed it was Ben Tippmann. This might actually work ... although if Art Bell starts touting it forget it lol. Maybe I'll buy one in 5 years if it pans out.

[Blazestorm]

I want this before a 24hr game in washington... I'll rock it on my 05 dragon for sure HAHA :D

[ScatterPlot]

I'm confused... can we get one now or do we have to wait for 3 years?

[FSU_Paintball]

available starting at the IAO (which is now)

[ScatterPlot]

OIC. So can we get one after IAO at places other than IAO, or is it debuting there and then we wait for stores and all to get it in? I might have missed all this, but do they have a projected cost for this sucker?

[Alpha]

Its got a slider on it that adjusts the level of spin. Light for longer paths, heavy for shorter distances before curving. Basicly, you watch where the balls are going and adjust accordingly with the slider as to where you want it to start curving at, that's your "know" answer. Plus you can change the direction of spin by rotating the tip.

Used to do something similar with the tipman flatline by angling the m98 right and left, drop the FPS to control where it starts curving. This new toy is more simplified in that you dont have to mess with the markers velocity settings to dial in where you want it to start curving at.

-Evil Bob

I understand you can adjust the amoutn of spin, but what you CANT adjust is the place where it starts to spin.

Either the diagrams are Poor choice of discriptive words. Try to be more civil. Army, or its impossible to predict.

For example, lets say the hook begins 30 feet out in the shot.

Well what do I do if I'm 10 feet from the guy I'm shooting at? 40?

You get what I'm saying?

I dont doubt that it curves the pbs, but theres no way you can flip a switch, and make a shot have a90 degree curve and clock someone.

[TDonovan]

I had a flatline a long time ago and hated it. But given the chance I'd pick one of these up just to fool around with it. Certainly an original and interesting idea, who knows, it might really work well.

However, I would be INCREDIBLY pissed if i had someone arcing shots around a bunker without even being exposed. I highly doubt tourny players will adopt this new system thankfully, but it's worth checking out for rec play.

[barrel break]

Hmmm, interesting. I remember we all used to be in awe of my friends flatline playing outlaw, Got it to curve aeound trees, lots of fun, if a little hard to control.

[Rocp15126]

I understand you can adjust the amoutn of spin, but what you CANT adjust is the place where it starts to spin.

Either the diagrams are Poor choice of discriptive words. Try to be more civil. Army, or its impossible to predict.

For example, lets say the hook begins 30 feet out in the shot.

Well what do I do if I'm 10 feet from the guy I'm shooting at? 40?

You get what I'm saying?

I dont doubt that it curves the pbs, but theres no way you can flip a switch, and make a shot have a90 degree curve and clock someone.


I played with the apex a little today at the IAO. Most people couldn't predict where it was going to shoot (there are no markings to tell you). It is pretty cool, but you'd have to play around with it for awhile to really know how to use it right. The kids that were playing with it before me couldn't tell if it was in "neutral" straight shooting, or curving. :wow: I'll probably get one to try out....

Rocp15126

[SlartyBartFast]

However, I would be INCREDIBLY pissed if i had someone arcing shots around a bunker without even being exposed. I highly doubt tourny players will adopt this new system thankfully, but it's worth checking out for rec play.

If it works, why not?

What it needs is some way to control it whith your nonshooting hand on a foregrip attached to the system.

That would be cool. Throw a string of paint and adjust curve and direction at the same time.

[Evil Bob]

I understand you can adjust the amoutn of spin, but what you CANT adjust is the place where it starts to spin.

Either the diagrams are Quit quoting this! Army, or its impossible to predict.

For example, lets say the hook begins 30 feet out in the shot.

Well what do I do if I'm 10 feet from the guy I'm shooting at? 40?

You get what I'm saying?

I dont doubt that it curves the pbs, but theres no way you can flip a switch, and make a shot have a90 degree curve and clock someone.

Yes, you're quite right, the diagrams are a bit of an exaggerated over simplification of the product's intended use. It would indeed be extremely cool for the ball to pass a player then take an immediate u-turn and hit them from behind, but that flies in the face of the current laws of physics. It looks like your typical run of the mill marketing spin which is at best loosely based upon reality and at worse completely made up nonsense. At least it gives you an idea of what the product is intended to do despite treading into the realmn of makebelieve.

Where the ball is going to break and start curving depends alot upon the muzzle velocity, the ball's weight, the current air pressure and humidity index, how close you are to sea level, etc. It would be nice to just put a little scale in feet on the slider itself measured in feet so you'd have a guess as to where it's going to break into a spin, but that'll be thrown off if you're say shooting indoor at a lower velocity. This toy is going to be trial and error until you get a good feel for how it's going to perform with a given paint.

-Evil Bob

[FSU_Paintball]

I agree that the marketing is BS with the 90 degree turns and all, but hype is normal in the industry. Anyways, nothing can be worse than those WDP ads that you see every time a new Angel comes out.

And manike already said it works great. I'm sure there's a learning curve... but lots of paintball skills are learned by practice.

[NoForts4Me]

How much are they and where can i get one?Doro Paintball (http://www.doropaintball.com/AB1038101EQuick/shopexd.asp?id=7808) - $139.99.

I would also be interested in how it affects velocity. I don't see how it can't increase/decrease the velocity depending on how it is "dialed." I would be interested in one to play around with for half that price.

And in defense of the Flatline, my Dad's shoots great. He somehow has it dialed in better than any others I have seen shoot, and is known for picking off people in the woods at great distances (compared to non-flatlined guns) with a couple of shots. He normally only uses about 150-200 rounds in a day of woodsball, and always has a bunch of eliminations. Maybe he got lucky.

[ScatterPlot]

Anybody know of anywhere else that has this thing? I would kinda like to shop around some...

[Ratzo]

If I had some extra cash I'd love to give it a try.
Then test it out at a tourny.

[deadbox101]

I'm sure its great for woodsball, but this is one piece of technology i dont want in Speedball. Why? Because if they perfect this thing were you can adjust it just so,there will be even less moving.

"oh hes behind that bunker, should i move up and get an angle? Hell no ill just adjust my barrel."

[SlartyBartFast]

Really? I would think it might make for MORE movement.

Would you sit behind a bunker and try to snap shoot if you knew your opponent was dialing in a shot that would go round the bunker?

[FSU_Paintball]

I'm ordering one from my local store... I'll let you guys know how I like it. I may even try to post a video of me (attempting) to shoot targets behind bunkers

[NewMagMan21]

Honestly it sounds cool and everything...and it may do everything it says. But I really hope that this thing isnt tourny legal. It would screw over everything in the game...whats the point of bunkers when paint just flies around it. I dont plan on getting one simply because of the fact that its pretty lame when instead of having to move around and concur your opponent through wit and a clever firefight, you can just sit back and curve paint around bunkers. It personally disgusts me. But hey its just my rant...everyone else seems to like it so I have to give a thumbs up to Ben Tippman, even though I dont like it, it is still a really cool idea.

[paint magnet]

If I had some extra cash I'd love to give it a try.
Then test it out at a tourny.

Yeah, it's always a good idea to put new and unfamiliar parts on your gun the day before a tournament :p

[Hairball]

I shot it today at the IAO and was fairly impressed. It definitely spins the ball and moves it significantly, but it would take a TON of getting used to to use it to any potential in a game. I'd be tempted to say it's too unpredictable to take advantage of, but I'm going to try not to jump to conclusions since I only shot a few rounds through it.

Bottomline: It works, but try before you buy.

[doc_Zox]

i wonder what would happen if i inserted a rubber nub into one of the holes on my Doorbuster?
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox///pun1.jpg
i think i will have to try an experiment

[Jack & Coke]

manike, any video clips?

[Cameo]

Saw it at IAO today and I was amazed.. Very interesting to say the least, but way to much for this simple player.... although I am usally just there for the guys witht eh pretty eyes... :p

[yingyang]

Think about it though, millions of diffrent angles, your enemy isn't going to wait for you to clock in your enemy. Still a pretty cool concept for a barrel.

[JJBrookshire]

I played with it today on an ICD ProMaster (wanted to try out the marker as well as this barrel) in the scenario game. Both were flawless. I tried the ProMaster in the "unlimited ramp" mode and found that my only complaint was that I shot way too much paint. I then switched it to "unlimited semi" and found it to be perfect. Never broke a ball (Empire Reloader B fed) and often ran into multiple targets at once with victorious results.

The Apex deserves more time than I can take right now but I was very impressed. I played with the settings throughout the day as I engaged targets at various ranges and behind a wide variety of cover. I was able to hit dozens of players that were standing in relative open areas because they never thought I would be able to reach them under a thick overhead tree canopy. I also hit several players that were behind log piles, mounds and embankments. This was most impressive since I would turn the Apex upside down and walk the impacts behind the cover until the player (whom I could not see) would stand up with a hit. One of my favorite features of the Apex vs. the Flatline is the fact I could "turn off" the Apex when I needed minimum ball movement for snapshooting small targets.

I heard one ref who had just watched me take out a group of 10 players say "That is the most unfair advantage I've ever seen! ... I've gotta have one!"

[Boydster]

/drool

The Pro Master and the apex barrel. The two things I want most currently.

[Lohman446]

I tried the APEX today. I was very impressed with it, and well I agree that some of the detractions about aiming and zeroing in on an opponent are valid the thing is pretty quick and easy to change. It does what it says it will do.

That being said - it coming to speedball worries me, even to woods. The flatline effect is fine, distance, etc. I don't want to have to deal with balls curving around things. Maybe I'm too stuck in my ways, but I want someone who can't shoot me to have to deal with it in a more traditional manner, be it a covered move, or a support shooter to flank me, rather than just holding me down until he can get that shot zeroed in.

As Manike eluded to the ability to change the spin may change the chrono speed. I specifically asked well toying with it if it did. They told me that it only lowers the speed, you chrono with it "turned off". That being said... I don't like it in the first place recall - I will argue - until proven wrong, that standard rules do not allow any velocity adjustement on field without tools. Can we do it by loosening barrels? Sure we can. Can someone who wants to cheat cheat? Almost always given enough time. Yes, using this properly, as most people will, and chronoing with it at its fastest possible setting - I am told this is with it dialed all the way out or "turned off" if you will - the thing can be perfectly safe. However, the rules (at least most standard accepted rules) so no ability to change velocity on field.

I don't know how to say it - I don't like the strategic effects of it on field. Maybe I'm wrong on it, perhaps its a great tool and the game just changes. It certainly was one of the most interesting concepts at IAO and my misgivings with it have nothing at all to do with safety, even if my main argument against it is safety related. It works like they say it does, I watched it first hand. The spin was fairly consistent and predictable, both in the flatline and "cornering" effect. It could be readily used it seemed in a fire fight. It appears very sturdy and well made. It may revolutionize how we play both in the woods and on the speedball field. It appears to be safe.

I still don't like it.

[Captain Canuck]

HAving had the opportunity to shoot this thing, I have to say taht it actually works. If I had the money I would get one myself.

This thing is going to be deem tourney ILLEGAL very soon... seriously.

[ScatterPlot]

Something like this looks especially good for scenario games, like have someone with one of those on a pump act as a "sniper" and stuff.

[hitech]

I still don't like it.

I understand how you feel. And I agree. But I might just have to get one...

[Thordic]

For those saying you don't have time to dial it in while playing, whats to stop you from marking the barrel for distance and curve and whatnot during practice? You could just mark what setting worked for the snake and whatnot right on the barrel, and twist it to that spot. It would only take a second to adjust your barrel after the guy dove into the snake, and then you could start dropping balls onto his head.

[Lohman446]

See above: I don't like it

It works - I watched it. I played around with it. Adjustments are pretty quickly made, in the hands of an observant backplayer or a patient front player these could be deadly. One person making sure you don't come out while the other dials it in - and I dialed it in on a can I could not see in half a dozen shots or so - adjustments are pretty easy.

[Jaan]

I wonder how hard it would be to make this thing adjustable electronically? A couple of small motors and some sort of dials mounted in a fore grip. You could even have preset adjustments stored electronically which you could call up for specific tasks. You know what I'm getting at next ... Heads Up Display! Well, something like that. You could make a pretty cheap version with just an optical sight, and a "floating" reticle which moves with the Apex adjustment. You would sight it in normally and that "zero point" and those crosshairs would be where the shots go without any spin on the ball, but there would be an addition reticle, say a small red circle, and that would move as you adjusted.

Hummmmmm ...

[TheShark]

Fun concept but I don't want anything to do with it in actual gameplay. I play this game to simulate real combat. I'm not a hardcore army type or anything, but the whole point of a paintball is to simulate a bullet. I don't want curving bullets, it changes the very nature of the game. If anything new barrel designs should try and give the paint a straighter trajectory.

[WingMan13]

Fun concept but I don't want anything to do with it in actual gameplay. I play this game to simulate real combat. I'm not a hardcore army type or anything, but the whole point of a paintball is to simulate a bullet. I don't want curving bullets, it changes the very nature of the game. If anything new barrel designs should try and give the paint a straighter trajectory.

I think we are not far away from "smart" bullets that will do the same in real combat :D Then again our enemies would not have it in a ready supply :ninja:


Anyone know how long this Apex barrel is? 14", 12"?

[MadPSIence]

I think it's neat but should be entirely banned. it's just another thing making the sport more lazy than ever.

frankly this is more unfair than ramping.

[SlartyBartFast]

I wonder how hard it would be to make this thing adjustable electronically?

Now, along with ramping that could be the ULTIMATE weapon. :ninja:

Press a button and have it strafe a given angle (laft/right/down). No need to aim. :eek:

[MadPSIence]

Now, along with ramping that could be the ULTIMATE weapon. :ninja:

Press a button and have it strafe a given angle (laft/right/down). No need to aim. :eek:

yeah, and paintball becomes a video game.. just strap the gun to your arm.. plug a gamepad into it and go hard..

frankly anyone that thinks this is remotely good for the sport should just go buy greg hastings and leave real paintball be.

[germanman]

Woohoo....thas hot...and I mean HAWT! But I also love my St!ffi.

[Spartan X]

DC is becoming a Dealer...so I'm getting one from them along with all the stuff I need done to my viking/excal. Else I would have bought one at IAO for $120.

It really is neat and I want one to fool around with playing rec ball with my epic.

But I do thin k it shouyld be tourney Banned. Once they see what it can do and that it really does it's job, I'm sure NPPL will be right on top of it. As they should be...bunkers do sewrve a purpose after all...with this playing tight would not matter much.

[Jaan]

yeah, and paintball becomes a video game.. just strap the gun to your arm.. plug a gamepad into it and go hard..

frankly anyone that thinks this is remotely good for the sport should just go buy greg hastings and leave real paintball be.You know, I agree with you 100%. The tinkerer in me would love to make a "guided" paintball marker but I already can't stand the newer ramping electro markers. I think it's about time to start separating markers into classes ... I dearly wish my local fields would do mech only woodsball games for instance.

Personally I think playing paintball video games are lame too. If you're going to play a video game blow stuff up and kill a few dozen people (c:

[11 Bravo]

Has anyone used it with there Automag? Is anyone going to get one?

[MadPSIence]

I for one will never buy one. I consider it a cheating tool that doesn't belong in the game whether it's rec or tournament.

[magman007]

I for one will never buy one. I consider it a cheating tool that doesn't belong in the game whether it's rec or tournament.


WTF? how is it a cheating tool? It hasnt been deemed illegal, and it has alot of great uses. It is great! How can you call it a cheating tool? Because you can make the shot go exactly where you want it?

I have some news for you, you can already do the same thing with your current barrel and an air bunker. its called englishing the ball. It isnt hard to do with a little practice, and you can drop paint on who ever you want.

TO the thread creator,

I have tried it, and it is damn cool, i just dont see my self spending the time to find out each adjustment and how to use it correctly. I find the englishing method to work just fine, but you may find you like it. It was fun to mess with, that i will say

[Xenocide]

anyone shot ropes with this thing on high spin/curve? anyone broken a ball in it? I am interested to know if you can put 18 bps through this thing with curve, and how the barrel performs without the spin thing engaged.

[oldsoldier]

Saw this at IAO. It actually works. Was pretty neat to watch...but its only possible use is rec/scenario. Essentially what the barrel does is puts a spin on the ball...kinda like turning the flatline. Someone put one on the end of an angel, I think it was, and ripped on it, no probs.

[FSU_Paintball]

Dude, what the hell?

Someone changed the title of my thread?? And used incorrect grammar on top of that???


I mean, I think the title now asks a valid question... but I wasn't the one who changed it.


W

T

F




Not cool. Don't go touching my thread titles for no good reason. NOT APPRECIATED.