cheating and unsportsman like conduct

[magmonkey]

I know blah blah blah just another old school player complaining about how the sport is changing...
I miss the honor side of paintball

I think the leagues need to impliment a fine for cheating and unsportsman like conduct

I bet alot of this would go way if the player was actualy held accountable after the game was over.

flame all you want

Alan
DC

[Target Practice]

I know blah blah blah just another old school player complaining about how the sport is changing...
I miss the honor side of paintball

I think the leagues need to impliment a fine for cheating and unsportsman like conduct

I bet alot of this would go way if the player was actualy held accountable after the game was over.

flame all you want

Alan
DC

You're right.

[Muzikman]

problem is, what sport currently does this? None. They hand out penalties, but they do that in most events (if it is actually caught).

I honestly think that at major events the games should be recorded with x number of cameras (on pointed at each player) and then reviewed during and after the game. If someone is caught cheating on tape then a penalty is issued. The problem with this is that it would slow down the games and cost a TON to do. I think a lot less people would cheat if they knew they would get caught.

I do think that things like throwing your gun or starting a physical fight (with players, refs or fans) should get you suspended from X number of games/events.

[Gunga]

I know blah blah blah just another old school player complaining about how the sport is changing...
I miss the honor side of paintball

I think the leagues need to impliment a fine for cheating and unsportsman like conduct

I bet alot of this would go way if the player was actualy held accountable after the game was over.

That'd be nice. But even if a player is suspended from one league, they're free to go play in another. Take Frank Connell for example. He got suspended from the open X-Ball division for threatening a ref or some such. So what happens? Apparently the Oakland Assassins say, "Hey! Come play NXL with us!" WTF is that? I suppose he can go play in Super 7 as well. So part of the problem is that there's no one major league like the NFL/NBA/MLB for paintball - because of the multiple leagues, a suspension doesn't mean a thing. The owner/teams who don't care if so-and-so acts like an idiot, just as long as he can play paintball well don't help matters either.

Frank's got some anger management issues. Saw him a bunch at this year's Chicago Open - he's the typical rude/angry tourney guy that makes me not play tourney ball. Besides him threatening a ref, I was about 10 feet away when he got into a shouting/swearing argument with one of his teammates and nearly punched him. Nevermind that his teammate was puny next to Frank. Or that the guy was...his teammate. :tard:

Also..that whole arguing with the ref thing. That's gotta stop. Sure, refs get argued with in all sports. But not like in paintball where they get subjected to extended rants - and a lot of the refs are younger, so they don't know how to handle it if so and so famous paintballer (or just plain angry guy) is screaming in their face.

Alas, paintball is a small money sport and I don't see it growing to a point where it can support paying professional refs.

The problem with fining players is that they (or their sponsors) pay to play in the tourney. So if you fine someone, you're going to piss off one of your paying customers. Also, in the small political drama that is paintball, whoever gets fined likely knows someone who knows someone who knows some league official they can sweettalk into lightening/elmininating said fine.

Even while playing recball on a hyper/X/air/whatever field, you get the occasional tourney guy who has to yell out, "HE'S HIT! GET THE F OUT! GET THE F OUT!" Hey...it's recball. Relaxxxx. :rofl:

Isn't paintball supposed to be fun?

[my2crazyeyes]

[QUOTE=Muzikman]problem is, what sport currently does this? None. They hand out penalties, but they do that in most events (if it is actually caught).[QUOTE]

Don't the fine players in the NBA for say punching ref, or a fan? how is hand to hand combat with another player any different?

At any rate is there currently a penaltie for throwing your marker on the ground? Saying it's ok since this type of behavior is ok in other professional sports shouldn't be a reason to do it in our sport. Pball takes a lot more heat then other sports which is even more reason for these pro players to clean up the way they play or the sport might never be able to advance beyond the point that it is at.


-Chris

[Faddy]

problem is, what sport currently does this? None. They hand out penalties, but they do that in most events (if it is actually caught).

Nascar, NFL, NBA...probably more.

I haven't watched sports much in the last year, but I remember last year Dale Earnhardt Jr. said the Sh word on live national TV and they fined him. Tony Stewart it seems gets fined 2 or 3 times a year for fighting or unsportsmanlike conduct. NFL players have been fined for excessive unsportsmanlike conduct, and I know for a fact it's happened in the NBA. I don't follow those two sports much so I can't really give you specifics.

[Lohman446]

At any rate is there currently a penaltie for throwing your marker on the ground? Saying it's ok since this type of behavior is ok in other professional sports shouldn't be a reason to do it in our sport. Pball takes a lot more heat then other sports which is even more reason for these pro players to clean up the way they play or the sport might never be able to advance beyond the point that it is at.

-Chris

yes, in both NPPL and PSP there are major penalties assessed for outbursts that involve throwing a marker or air source. Cartel if I recall was suspended from one of the major leagues because of such an event. In fact, many of the penalties you advocate are already there in the rules of major series, they are just not enforced.

[SlartyBartFast]

In fact, many of the penalties you advocate are already there in the rules of major series, they are just not enforced.

Ok Lohman, I want my ideas and life back. It's getting scary how many things we seem to have in common. :eek:

Time and time again in numerous threads that I've started and participated in, the final conclusion is the sport is screwed without proper enforcement of the rules.

If you can't understand and enforce the ones you have, what chance do new rules have?

[Lohman446]

Ok Lohman, I want my ideas and life back. It's getting scary how many things we seem to have in common. :eek:

Time and time again in numerous threads that I've started and participated in, the final conclusion is the sport is screwed without proper enforcement of the rules.

If you can't understand and enforce the ones you have, what chance do new rules have?

I think the more we discuss it the more it becomes apparent. The rules of the major series(PSP / NPPL) are rather well written, there is very little left for interpertation of them. The faults we find are not in the rules themselves but in the lack of enforcement. There is very little gray area in the rules, they are basically black and white. Rules and penalties are spelled out, and are what many people advocate in rule discussion threads. The problems lie in the enforcement of standing rules. A problem I beleive starts on the field and runs all the way through the top promotors.

[MadPSIence]

in the NHL if you punch a ref, expect indefinite expulsion. Swearing and yelling at someone? Unsportsmanlike conduct... either sit for 5 or most times you're thrown out of the game and often fined.

intentionally injure someone? bye bye for at least a game.. if they are really hurt.. bye bye for a year and expect a fine.

paintball is stupid. you can get away with anything.

[Muzikman]

I think paintball needs to use the Highschool definition of Unsportsman like conduct.

---
Unsportsmanlike conduct shall include the following: fighting, verbal abuse or dissent toward an official or opponent, racial or ethnic slurs, inappropriate comments or actions that may be construed as sexual harassment, profanity, obscene gestures, flagrant and violent fouls, taunting, trash talk, baiting, cheating, throwing or abusing equipment, inappropriate posters, physical intimidation or abuse of an official or opponent, and unauthorized leaving of a team bench area.
---

Some sports hand out fines for what I would think of as gross unsportsman like conduct. Things such as physical contact or threats, etc. But very few if any issue fines for the minor stuff. The stuff that is more common in paintball. Sure fights happen, but I think the arguing with the refs and other players needs to stop.

[Resurection]

As a current hockey player, enlighted USAHockey ref, and former paintball tourney player/ref I have to say that the rules are there, there is little to no grey area, and the entire problem is in the enforcment of the rules.

The penalties are not fully explained in the rules, and there are no predetermined fines. So even though the rules are clear, the penalty for breaking them is not.

The fact that there are many small leagues and series, and a guy can go from one to another after being suspended is not a big deal at all really. Cause most of the problem players (ie Frank) will eventually get themselves tossed from all the worthwhile leagues in a short time. IF the rules were enforced. So at some point the player changes his act or he is forced out of the sport.

Enforcement is a key issue, and to me I only see one real solution. While the player leagues and tourney series are not going to band together, I think ALL officiating should. Something similiar to the USAHockey type of organization. A non-profit, for the benefit of the sport, style of org that almost unionizes the officials and trains, enforces, and rewards the support structure of the game, everyone would benefit. Question is, who will fund this thing in the beginning?

What do you think? (Aside from the fact this is hugely dreaming rhetoric)

-Resurection
'Bringing The Game Back One Player At A Time'

[MadPSIence]

i think part of the problem with paintball is often enough, the refs and even organizers are as much punks as the players we're talking about in this thread.

i KNOW most refs in PB are refs just to make a few bucks but mostly to go and be a spectator to people shooting each other. there's so much grey area because paintball refs get off on entertainment rather than do a good freaking job.

[Resurection]

i think part of the problem with paintball is often enough, the refs and even organizers are as much punks as the players we're talking about in this thread.

i KNOW most refs in PB are refs just to make a few bucks but mostly to go and be a spectator to people shooting each other. there's so much grey area because paintball refs get off on entertainment rather than do a good freaking job.

Thus my entire theory about organizing the officials and creating certification and such. It would make the refs harder to find and keep, not to mention cost more to the promoter, but hey. Quality costs money. (Exactly why AGD never sold a $100 marker :) )

[Lohman446]

21. Suspensions, Disqualifications, Fines
21.01 Team Responsibility. Teams are responsible for the conduct of everyone on
their roster which includes both players and supporters. During the event the following will apply to fines, suspensions and ejections.2
21.02 Suspensions. Players may be issued three-game, six-game or one year
suspensions. Suspensions must be served immediately. Suspensions are issued to the player the team for which that player plays will have to play short as though that player was eliminated from all games played by that team in the tournament in which the suspension was authorized during the term of such suspension. Player suspensions will carry over from tournament to tournament until suspension is fulfilled.

21.03 Three-Game Suspension. Players may be suspended, causing the team to play short for three games for the following infractions:
(1) Outbursts. Throwing smaller equipment (e.g., goggles, harness) in an unsportsmanlike like manner.
(2) Physical contact during or after play that does not result in injury (e.g., shove, grab, shoulder-bump).
(3) Verbal Abuse. Verbally abusing any individual during or after play.
(4) Shooting at a Velocity of 320fps or higher.
(5) Not having a Barrel Blocking Device on maker in un goggled area.
(6) Not having the marker bagged outside Players Paddocks.

21.04 Six-Game Suspension. Players will be ejected and the team will play short for six games for the following:
(1) Outbursts. Throwing marker or air system.
(2) Physical contact during or after play that results in injury (e.g., punch, kick, or
spit).
(3) Over Shooting. Over shooting any other player with intent to injure.
(4) Shooting Referees.
(5) Shooting from Dead Box.

21.05 One-Year Suspension. Any player or team that violates Rule 18.07 shall be prohibited from competing in any NPPL sanctioned tournament for a period of up to one year from the date of the infraction. Examples of rules violations likely to lead to civil or criminal exposure include, but are not limited to the use of Prohibited Paint, velocity violations, and verbal or physical abuse.

21.11 Fines. Players may be required to pay a minimum fine of $250.00 and maximum
fine of $5,000.00 per occurrence for actions resulting in penalties under Rule 21. The team of a player assessed a penalty will be prohibited from competing in any future NPPL sanctioned tournament until such fine has been fully paid.

The rules exist.. does enforcement?

[Resurection]

The rules exist.. does enforcement?

Damn, the short version of the rules I found recently didn't include that. Can anyone tell me where to find the complete rules for NPPL, NXL, etc? I am interested in some toilet reading.
:rolleyes:

-Resurection

[Lohman446]

Damn, the short version of the rules I found recently didn't include that. Can anyone tell me where to find the complete rules for NPPL, NXL, etc? I am interested in some toilet reading.
:rolleyes:

-Resurection

http://www.nppl.tv/2005-Rules-final-3-1-05.pdf

More Nppl info at nppl.tv

[Resurection]

http://www.nppl.tv/2005-Rules-final-3-1-05.pdf

More Nppl info at nppl.tv

Thank you. seems the word doc i had was a local tourney's edited version/adaption/canabilation of those rules. :mad:

Anything for NXL out there? How about good 'ol X-Ball or is that absorbed into NXL now?

[Lohman446]

Thank you. seems the word doc i had was a local tourney's edited version/adaption/canabilation of those rules. :mad:

Anything for NXL out there? How about good 'ol X-Ball or is that absorbed into NXL now?

http://www.pspevents.com

PSP home page, which should cover PSP and X-ball events. I did not see the rules on a glance.

[hitech]

If you can't understand and enforce the ones you have, what chance do new rules have?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:hail: :hail: :hail:

[FSU_Paintball]

Players don't get fined in other sports for cheating, that I can think of.

Also, you need to pay them like professionals before you fine them like professionals.

[Resurection]

Players don't get fined in other sports for cheating, that I can think of.


Have you seen or heard ANY of the steroid issues in major league sports? Definte fines/penalties for breaking those rules.

Every time a flag is thrown, or a player sent to the penalty box in football/hockey is someone getting punished for breaking a rule (aka cheating).

Severity of penalty depends on severity of rule break. Does it stop people from breaking the rules? No, but it does have direct impact on games, and it is (usually) strickly enforced.

[FSU_Paintball]

I didn't say they didn't get punished. I said they didn't get fined.

And pro players get fined for ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. That goes beyond cheating.

I absolutely agree with you in the sense that the problem lies in having no cut-and-dry punishment rules and enforcement.

[Resurection]

I didn't say they didn't get punished. I said they didn't get fined.

And pro players get fined for ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. That goes beyond cheating.

Point being that illegal or not, there is a rule against some legal drugs because they are deamed as cheating to the sport. Thus fines and suspensions.

[Lohman446]

NPPL rules make most decisions on field cut and dry. The rules are rather well written (in my opinion). For instance obvious and unobvious hits are very clearly spelled out within the rules. What is lacking is enforcement... both at NPPL events and local events that claim to follow NPPL rules.

[Resurection]

NPPL rules make most decisions on field cut and dry. The rules are rather well written (in my opinion). For instance obvious and unobvious hits are very clearly spelled out within the rules. What is lacking is enforcement... both at NPPL events and local events that claim to follow NPPL rules.

Only solution to that is to unify the officials and begin to enforce consistency with the rules and refs. Maybe I will take up this cause. I am a glutton for punishment. :)

[FSU_Paintball]

Point being that illegal or not, there is a rule against some legal drugs because they are deamed as cheating to the sport. Thus fines and suspensions.

My point is you don't see the pros getting fined for most acts that aren't illegal. So you can't really compare cheating in paintball to assaulting a photographer or taking steroids.

[SlartyBartFast]

My point is you don't see the pros getting fined for most acts that aren't illegal. So you can't really compare cheating in paintball to assaulting a photographer or taking steroids.

NASCAR drivers get fined BIG money if they swear on camera.

[Resurection]

My point is you don't see the pros getting fined for most acts that aren't illegal. So you can't really compare cheating in paintball to assaulting a photographer or taking steroids.

Believe it or not, there are fines placed almost every day during season in all sports for all types of infractions and stupid stuff. But fining a guy $10,000 when he makes three or four times that in one night just doesn't really have much impact eaither.

[FSU_Paintball]

Well then, if we fine the paintball players one third or fourth of what they make that day.... we'd probably be paying most of them

Stupid stuff, yes. Cheating, no. I don't see many if any fines for cheating that doesn't cross the line into illegal territory.

Regardless, paintball players by and large are not salaried and therefore fining is inappropriate for punishment.

Enforcement of the rules is what will solve this problem.

[atm743]

ya it has change soo much. i remeber the days when i pay at my local feild and we play honestly and fair. if you were hit you go out.

i think the main problem is people tring to show of or prove how good they are.

then people try to do whatever possible to win like cheating.

really if everyone just put aside how fast their gun or how good they are and just play for fun then this would never be a problem


if you want to brag on how good you are or fast your gun is then sign up for a local tournement.