Why AGD?

[Lohman446]

I understand brand loyalty, and I understand caring for those who have brought the sport to where it is...

That being said I hear clamoring for a new mag - a new "super" marker (I think its just talk, but hey).

Why AGD? Would everything that people have against electros and have stated before suddenly evaporate if AGD made a ramping, eyed, electro to compete.

Does it matter if its AGD, Dye, NPS, Palmers, etc who make them (and yes I left SP out for a reason)? Why does it matter?

[Resurection]

I think I understand your question - Would my view/opinion of AGD change if they went the way of popular desires and produced a ramping, electro?

Not at all. As a matter of fact, I would probably try it. Simply because I know AGD=quality regardless of what they are making. That is NOT something I can say for other companies.

Would I view AGD as 'selling out' or going the way of the jay bird? Heck no... business is business and that is something I do know. (Of course I also think Wal-Mart moving into smaller towns is a GOOD thing for small/local businesses if they attack the situation correctly and become specialized shops and not try to compete directly.) <-- A little off topic, but not if you really understand what I am saying.

[Muzikman]

For me it's beacuse the first semi I bought was a Mag back in 1992. I own a lot of other guns, but for some reason I still love the classic mag. That and the people at AGD are great people. I can't say there is one person over the years that has worked for AGD that was not 100% about customer service (atleast the ones I have met).

Also, I have always liked the small company that can make it big without ripping people off. I think AGD was one of the few companies in Paintball that can claim this.

[phantomhitman]

For me it's beacuse the first semi I bought was a Mag back in 1992. I own a lot of other guns, but for some reason I still love the classic mag. That and the people at AGD are great people. I can't say there is one person over the years that has worked for AGD that was not 100% about customer service (atleast the ones I have met).

Also, I have always liked the small company that can make it big without ripping people off. I think AGD was one of the few companies in Paintball that can claim this.

The truth. But you know the saying, "good guys finish last". AGD has been so good, and so nice, that they didnt dip their hands into the gold pot that is the current state of paintballing (or tried to but failed). I think a new marker would help out, nothing has been made since the e/xmag. When did they first start shipping these anyways?

[BigEvil]

Why? For me, back in 1994(?) when I was researching my first 'high-end' semi to upgrade from my VM-68 I made phone calles to several of the manufacturers of the time. WGP, AGD, WHomever it was that made the F-1 Illustrator, and Air-Power (Makers of the Vector)

I was either hung up on or put through phone-transfer-hell by all of them except AGD. I spoke to someone on the phone for almost an hour. Im not sure who that person was, but he was very helpful and interested in making sure I was well educated about their product.

I was very impressed, and moreso after shooting my first mag. I bought a newly released lvl7 mag and a bunch of other stuff (From Smart Parts, how ironic) and havent looked back.

AGD's interest didnt end after that one phone call. I had also made a few other tech related calls over time and I found that the people at AGD were always far more helpful than any other company I had dealt with. One time, one of the techs had even called me back a few times to make sure that a problem was corrected. (bolt stick - power tube springs. remember them?)

There were even a few occations where they shipped me parts for free, and via 2 day air.

How can you not love a company like that?

To make it even better, the quality of their products has always been top-notch. Spending my fair share of time around tools and machinery, it was evident to see that AGD products were so well "Engineered"

Having owned or played with most of the markers of the time, the Mag stood out way above the rest.

[Beemer]

To me its not why, its only.

Should I up this thread? Only with an AGD Mag

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141431&page=1&pp=40&highlight=AGD

Also see this one.


Airgun Designs, Inc. has been a long-time supporter of the IPPA and applauds their efforts to establish SAFETY standards for our industry. We feel that we are acting responsibly in not selling nitrogen systems until the SAFETY questions have been answered. At the time of this writing, there are less than twelve nitrogen systems in existence. One of our systems has recently been tested by AUTHORIZED TESTING INC. a DOT proved testing facility and consultant to the IPPA on SAFETY issues. Page seven of the report states "BASED UPON THE TEST DATA OBTAINED AND DOCUMENTED HEREIN, THE AIRGUN SYSTEM SUBMITTED FOR EVALUATION APPEARS TO BE WELL ENGINEERED AND HAS INHERENT PRESSURE CAPABILITIES WELL IN EXCESS OF THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH NORMAL USE." Complete copies of this report are available from Airgun Designs at no charge.

From here.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161699&highlight=tanks

Show me any other company that has done this and will give me a copy.

ASTM
6.5.2 All paintball markers intended to be used with refillable
cylinders shall be able to withstand input pressure of three
thousand pounds per square inch 207 bar (3000 psi) without
catastrophic failure. Leaking in a manner which would not
cause injury to the operator shall not constitute failure.

Just test it and tell me if it passes.

___________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[Lohman446]

ASTM
6.5.2 All paintball markers intended to be used with refillable
cylinders shall be able to withstand input pressure of three
thousand pounds per square inch 207 bar (3000 psi) without
catastrophic failure. Leaking in a manner which would not
cause injury to the operator shall not constitute failure.



I think many markers today would pass this test with the bolded part being part of the standard to not constitute failure. - though very few would come out useable whereas the mag would.

I know for instance the Matrix overpressurized blows the top hat o-ring and leaks heavily down the barrel...

I would ASSUME the Ion blows an internal line first...

[Beemer]

I think many markers today would pass this test with the bolded part being part of the standard to not constitute failure. - though very few would come out useable whereas the mag would.

I know for instance the Matrix overpressurized blows the top hat o-ring and leaks heavily down the barrel...

I would ASSUME the Ion blows an internal line first...

Ya we can only think since no one else seems to be doing any tests or showing any data of any kind. :( Ha Ha you said assume :eek:

[Lohman446]

Ya we can only think since no one else seems to be doing any tests or showing any data of any kind. :( Ha Ha you said assume :eek:


I have actually overpressurized the Matrix - (unscientifically and by mistake) - it made a really loud bang noise and I had a mass amount of air down the barrel, it blew the top hat o-ring out of place and the back bolt o-ring. I would ASSUME (want me to call it something else - ok THEORIZE) the same would happen at full reg failures .

Edit: that being said, I understand what you are saying. The mag valve is much more likely to survive a full reg failure in useable condition than are most other markers... what about a 4500PSI failure though?

[CKY_Alliance]

Why AGD? hmmm not really sure i got tired of using crap guns and something drew me to the automag and i bought one...i recently bought a cyborg which im sure ill use a lot more then the mag ...the mag is now a back up...the only reasons i bought a borg is becasue the mag didnt meet my upcoming needs...thats tournament ball..if agd where to come out with a gun to meet my needs then hell yea id buy it they make quality stuff...well of course i would prolly have to get it used casue price but yea id buy it.

Good topic,best ive seen in months.

[MadPSIence]

I'm slowly losing care if AGD does make a "super gun" or not. It's probably because I wanted the OLD AGD to make it.. the new AGD doesn't really reflect what it was.. an AGD that was involved in the community for one...

The only person at AGD that even talks to us is Marcia (god bless). Frankly I think if Dave or someone would just come here and say hi or talk to us.. talk bout what's up or even say ANYTHING.. it would restore some of the faith I.. and other people are likely losing in AGD.

[Lohman446]

I'm slowly losing care if AGD does make a "super gun" or not. It's probably because I wanted the OLD AGD to make it.. the new AGD doesn't really reflect what it was.. an AGD that was involved in the community for one...

The only person at AGD that even talks to us is Marcia (god bless). Frankly I think if Dave or someone would just come here and say hi or talk to us.. talk bout what's up or even say ANYTHING.. it would restore some of the faith I.. and other people are likely losing in AGD.


One of the things that I was waiting for was the "well look what TK did for paintball". Now I am not familiar with the patents TK kept or what all Dave etc. kept. But, unless TK is involved - frankly AGD has gotten to be the same as other companies.

[hitech]

Trust.

:cheers:

[Beemer]

The mag valve is much more likely to survive a full reg failure in useable condition than are most other markers... what about a 4500PSI failure though?

Ya ask all the other companies this to


"BASED UPON THE TEST DATA OBTAINED AND DOCUMENTED HEREIN, THE AIRGUN SYSTEM SUBMITTED FOR EVALUATION APPEARS TO BE WELL ENGINEERED AND HAS INHERENT PRESSURE CAPABILITIES WELL IN EXCESS OF THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH NORMAL USE."

Well I think they hit the mag valve with over 5000psi in testing so I would assume it Could be rated at 4500 no problem. :cool:

[Lohman446]

Ya ask all the other companies this to


"BASED UPON THE TEST DATA OBTAINED AND DOCUMENTED HEREIN, THE AIRGUN SYSTEM SUBMITTED FOR EVALUATION APPEARS TO BE WELL ENGINEERED AND HAS INHERENT PRESSURE CAPABILITIES WELL IN EXCESS OF THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH NORMAL USE."

Well I think they hit the mag valve with over 5000psi in testing so I would assume it Could be rated at 4500 no problem. :cool:


I thought the valve withstood it but they were cracking rails - but that is just rumor too...

[Beemer]

Trust.

:cheers:


SAFETY
:cheers:

[TheTramp]

I'd stay with AGD for the reliability alone. I know some people have had trouble with the L10 for example but I HONESTLY put it in and have never had my E-Mag not work every time I gas it up. Make a new “E-Mag” with BB eyes designed into it and even that “problem” would be gone.

If AGD made an E-Mag of some sort (basically used the Retro/X Valve I mean) with BB eyes and modern code then I think you'd have one of the best markers on the market. I'm willing to give up a bit of efficiency for the rock-like reliability.

[TheShark]

When I started playing back in 96 or so, I got an entry spyder. The 2 top guns were the mag and cocker. It was an extremely hard decision, but when I decided to upgrade, I went with the cocker. While I loved that gun, part of me always regretted not choosing the mag.

Eventually I sold my cocker and took about 3 years off from paintball. When I came back, I decided to check mags out again. I loved what I saw in the x-valve, ULE stuff, and lvl 10. When I found these forums, the loyal posters were the last bit of convincing I needed to pick up a RT ULE.

Knowing what I know now, with what has happened in the last year and a half (SP suit threats, TK leaving) I honestly don't know if I'd make the same decision again. That said, I definately don't regret it. I live in SoCal now, where to see a mag is an extremely rare occurance. Every time I go play I get great comments and astonished looks when people realize its a mag. With the electro setup I have now, I don't feel out-gunned on the field. It gives me performance, safety, and reliability. There is not much more one can ask for out of a marker.

[Teamslayer76]

I have trust in the company. I know what ever they make or put out it will be top notch. No matter what it is, it will be of quality. Yes, I would try it out no matter what it is. Pump, plastic, ramping, upside down, gun that doesnt shoot paintballs but lasers! Anything.

EVERYONE REMEMBER!


"Because Quality Always Shoots Straight"-Airgun Designs

Let find trust in the company that hasn't let us down.

[Lee]

because i can pull them out of my bag, air them up, load the hopper, and they'll work.

[peewee]

:D Its the girl I know that never says no!!!! :D In all honesty most of my reasons have been voiced but I'LL run them dowm.

Quality
Reliability
Easy maintenance (I think I can brake a classic down hanging upside down while on fire blindfolded)
been around the block a couple times have had quality issues with other markers.
I dont need an electro for the playing I do.

[punkncat]

I don't use a mag as primary anymore. To be honest it would be a stretch to say that I even use one for a backup. I have a classic that I keep for a few reasons. The biggest being that its super simple and super reliable. There is never any question that I will be able to oil it up, air it up, and play.

I first picked up a Mag because I thought it was pretty intereting that there were no visible moving parts. There was nothing to cock before airing up to prevent an air leak. I could dip it in the sink aired up, swish it around a bit, pull it out, fire it a few times and its clean. I will probably find my way to another someday.....

[ultralight]

why AGD?

because i can see, just by handling it, the quality of design and construction.
because after three years of playing with my dad's VM 68 i wanted the lightest, smallest marker that i could afford, while still keeping the rock-solid reliability that i had come to expect from the Vm.
because i built it from the ground up, and every single piece is there because i want it to be there, not because it came with the marker.
because it is simple enough in design that i milled my rail myself with no worries.
because it's not your typical spyder or tippmann or ion.
because the owner actually takes time to talk to his customers.
because it is a versatile enough platform for me to go in any dirction that i want to (scenario, tournament, pump, rec) without having to buy a whole new marker.
because instead of a manual i get an entire interactive community that will help me through any technical problem that i may encounter, as well as challenging me mentally in conversation.
because the twist-lock barrel is a relly neat idea(even though i have switched to a ULE)
because they actually back their claims up with laboratory testing.


because quality always shoots straight.

rant over.

if AGD made a super marker (devilmagesque).

i probably wouldn't use the ramping, i'm a rec player. i don't need ramping unless the other guys are using it.

would i enjoy the eyes and the mouse click trigger? of course. my biggest gripe right now is the lack of an affordable electro option (for the mag) with eyes. my second biggest is the short stroking i get when i try to walk the trigger. (i know, i know, just learn to shoot the thing the right way.)

i don't really have anything against electro's in general.

i think that an AGD electro would be nice because i know that no corners would be cut. they would use quality aluminum and there would be very few out of the box failures.

[*ArKfEaR*]

why AGD?

i think that an AGD electro would be nice because i know that no corners would be cut. they would use quality aluminum and there would be very few out of the box failures.

they made two, the E-Mag and the X-Mag (which utilized ULE technology).

... :rolleyes:

[TheTramp]

True but they don't have a E-Gun in production now and most people aren't going to pay the price for a brand new E-Mag that doesn't have eye's or at least a modern board.

I've never had problems with the L10 in my E-Mag but I do think eye's would be better for a fast shooting electro (even my E-Mag). It's perfect for mechanical but as I said above, I wish I could buy an E-Mag with eyes designed into it.

[onedude36]

Ya ask all the other companies this to


"BASED UPON THE TEST DATA OBTAINED AND DOCUMENTED HEREIN, THE AIRGUN SYSTEM SUBMITTED FOR EVALUATION APPEARS TO BE WELL ENGINEERED AND HAS INHERENT PRESSURE CAPABILITIES WELL IN EXCESS OF THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH NORMAL USE."

Well I think they hit the mag valve with over 5000psi in testing so I would assume it Could be rated at 4500 no problem. :cool:

Get Zak Vetter a bomb-suit and see how fast it really goes...

[SpecialBlend2786]

a few weeks ago my friend didnt have a working mag (missing some parts). We just took out the valve of my minimag (which hasnt been used in about 2 years), dropped in some oil, gased it up and it worked perfectly for the whole day.

[Steelrat]

Get Zak Vetter a bomb-suit and see how fast it really goes...

You gotta find Zak Vetter first :ninja:

[Automaggot68]

a few weeks ago my friend didnt have a working mag (missing some parts). We just took out the valve of my minimag (which hasnt been used in about 2 years), dropped in some oil, gased it up and it worked perfectly for the whole day.



There's a good reason why he didn't have a working mag.

[Automaggot68]

You gotta find Zak Vetter first :ninja:


I KNOW WHERE HE IS

[JRingold]

True but they don't have a E-Gun in production now and most people aren't going to pay the price for a brand new E-Mag that doesn't have eye's or at least a modern board.

I've never had problems with the L10 in my E-Mag but I do think eye's would be better for a fast shooting electro (even my E-Mag). It's perfect for mechanical but as I said above, I wish I could buy an E-Mag with eyes designed into it.

Wouldn't that be a Devil-Mag, or perhaps an X-Mag? Interesting, I've never used the ACE on either of my X-Mags...

The reason I'm loyal to AGD; once I learned how the Classic Valve worked and how to maintain it back in 1995, I didn't have to learn something all over again in when I bought an X-Valve and two X-Mags in 2005. :ninja:

[tymcneer]

Why AGD?

I pulled an OLD lvl 5 mag out of storage. Oiled it, and put air to it, and it shot prefectly well. It was in storage for about 13 or so years.

This is what brought me back to playing paintball.

Ty

Proud owner of
CF000230 and SFL Chimera

[Alpha]

I'll shoot, and will like anythign other then a smart parts marker, or a tippmann that has too much money put into it.

[VFX_Fenix]

I would ASSUME the Ion blows an internal line first...

Actually they'll blow their guage face first then pop off one of the internal lines from the solenoid housing. I know, I've done it, I was curious what would happen to the Ion given 800psi without a reg. Really kinda cool actually with the guage face, looks just like a cartoon actually. After the guage and lines were replaced/reinstalled gassing up the gun with a reg in place again set to ~180psi, gun shoots like a champ and, aside from having an non-sp guage, doesn't seem to show any signs of the incident.

[B.A.M.]

i just sold my rt ule and classic for a new 05 speed and phantom even though i love them both i still regret selling those too guns. Even if you have a problem it 99% of the time a easy fix. My rt ule when i got it had a faulty velocity adjter on the x value. I called agd and they took it back replaced it with no ? asked and it worked fine. I like the phantom cuz it about as easy to maintain as a mag. Any way i'll probaly be picking up a classic to screw around with since it such a great gun.