This just sickens me

[NewMagMan21]

I know this has been going on for a while.
But it just sickens me that quality online stores (actionvilliage) are selling ramping/ cheater boards. Its gross that cheating has become so mainstream that stores are supporting it.
Its gross and makes me want to vomit! :tard:

[Indignant]

Just accept it. It's part of the game now, and you will have to live with it. Not a favorable part of the game, but a part nonetheless.

[Blazestorm]

Ramping doesn't make a difference. No matter what people say or think. If you lose a game because the other team had "ramping" guns... you were going to lose in the first place. It gives them a slight edge, but if you're the better team you should win.

[soccer4minimags]

Speaking of action village, you know what sickens me.

If you have ordered from them lately you will see that the free ups shipping they used to offer has downgraded from UPS to USPS. How crummy is that, it took like 10 days for a package that used to take less than a week to get to me.

Something I have learned is that the ENTIRE PAINTBALL INDUSTRY SUCKS AT QUALITY CONTROL AND/OR CUSTOMER SERVICE. I have yet to find a company that truly is an exception, in any other idustry half these companies would not survive. Oh well I guess thats what we get when more than half the client base are minors, and everybody is out to make a quick buck.

[sol tank]

Speaking of action village, you know what sickens me.

If you have ordered from them lately you will see that the free ups shipping they used to offer has downgraded from UPS to USPS. How crummy is that, it took like 10 days for a package that used to take less than a week to get to me.

Something I have learned is that the ENTIRE PAINTBALL INDUSTRY SUCKS AT QUALITY CONTROL AND/OR CUSTOMER SERVICE. I have yet to find a company that truly is an exception, in any other idustry half these companies would not survive. Oh well I guess thats what we get when more than half the client base are minors, and everybody is out to make a quick buck.


USPS is not only cheaper, but it is also more reliable, quicker and better handling in my xperiences.

[Maggot6]

I have yet to find a company that truly is an exception, in any other idustry half these companies would not survive. .

Mike Cassidy from CCI.
I win. ;)

[Lohman446]

I know this has been going on for a while.
But it just sickens me that quality online stores (actionvilliage) are selling ramping/ cheater boards. Its gross that cheating has become so mainstream that stores are supporting it.
Its gross and makes me want to vomit! :tard:


What is this cheater board you speak of? Many places allow ramping. How is it cheating if the rules allow it? We need to change these terms. Regardless if you agree with ramping or not it is no longer, at least in many places, cheating.

[Timmee]

I know this has been going on for a while.
But it just sickens me that quality online stores (actionvilliage) are selling ramping/ cheater boards. Its gross that cheating has become so mainstream that stores are supporting it.
Its gross and makes me want to vomit! :tard:

You do know that some tourney promotions allow ramping, don't you? If it's allowed according to the rules, it's not cheating.

[ZEROte]

why does it sicken you if a store wants to make a profit and will sell what is popular? its not disgusting its a smart business move.

[Lohman446]

I challenged this board on the hypocrisy found on it by some people awhile back and was told it didn't exist. Bounce and run away are cool, Predator / Morlocked E-mags and Devilmags are great, hybrid mode is just awesome. But controlled ramping is "cheating" and apparently those who use / promote / or accept it, even within the confines of the rules, are idiots. :tard: :confused: :rolleyes: At least thats the opinion I get from some fraction of these boards.

[ZEROte]

well the predator is cheating. how can it be that a gun shoots super fast just by changing a board? its cheating in a real bad way because the gun now shoots 20+bps. which would you rather be hit by 15 bps or 20+bps?

[FSU_Paintball]

I know this has been going on for a while.
But it just sickens me that quality online stores (actionvilliage) are selling ramping/ cheater boards. Its gross that cheating has become so mainstream that stores are supporting it.
Its gross and makes me want to vomit! :tard:


*ahem*

IT'S NOT CHEATING, IT IS A WIDELY ACCEPTED MODE OF FIRE IN MANY TOURNAMENTS AND TOURNAMENT SERIES.

It's only cheating if you're not allowed to do it. PERIOD.

Doesn't mean I really like it. But at least it's not dangerous. You want to talk about dangerous, put a mag on runaway or a semi timmy in uberbounce mode. THAT'S cheating.

[Lohman446]

well the predator is cheating. how can it be that a gun shoots super fast just by changing a board? its cheating in a real bad way because the gun now shoots 20+bps. which would you rather be hit by 15 bps or 20+bps?

The boards cheating? Its a designed system that allows you to configure the modes of fire to meet the requirements of the rules you are playing in. The Predator board, with its superior range of options, allows you to program most any setting on the marker, from when ramping engages to what the rate of fire limit is. You can set it to comply with the rules of the tournament, be it strict semi uncapped, strict semi capped, ramping after 6 shots, ramping after 3 shots, ramping capped at 10/12/15 (or any number really), uncapped ramping limited by the speed of your loader.

The board itself is not designed to cheat, it is designed for versatility and to be able to follow the current rules (and most likely future) of whatever tournament series you choose to play in. Failure to follow those rules is not the fault of the board, but the fault of the player. The board is not a cheater... its an inanimate object that follows inputed instructions from the user.

[BigEvil]

I know this has been going on for a while.
But it just sickens me that quality online stores (actionvilliage) are selling ramping/ cheater boards. Its gross that cheating has become so mainstream that stores are supporting it.
Its gross and makes me want to vomit! :tard:


Many places allow ramping, so I guess it cannot be considered cheating in these instances.

[Lohman446]

IMO this thread is the modern day equivilant to

"It just sickens me that major companies accept the cheating in the sport and don't exclusively encourage its play how I feel it should be played. I mean, why do they sell anything but Nelson markers and oil based paints. They sell semi-auto's, constant air, and even those dangerous high pressure air systems. This is not how I think the game should be played and it sickens me that these major for profit companies sell to anything but the way I think things should be played. Why should they consider that others may play different styles or under different rules. Anyone not playing with a Nelson marker is cheating. Anyone not playing in the woods on a massive course in an elaborate game designed around capturing several flags is just playing a version made to help them cheat."

Its an annoying and rather simplistic view to think that just because a company sells things you do not agree with they are catering to cheating.

[craltal]

Last time I checked, the purpose of a retail establishment is to make money. When they offer free shipping, they make less money than if they charged for the shipping. If you want it via UPS, pay for it.



It's not worth wasting your time trying to explain reality when they so clearly care to live in their own little hypocritical world.

[warbeak2099]

Consider also that ramping actually puts more emphasis on skill than semi only. When 2 ramping teams are playing each other, it's much harder to move. You need to be able to move faster and smarter. You have to think quicker.

The skill that ramping does eliminate is the skill of being able to shoot fast. This is a skill which a lot of people groaned about. Ex. "Man, these kids are all just trying to be able to shoot faster. All you need is one shot. It's sick that emphasis is being put on just shooting as fast as you can, blah de blah blah blah..."

Well, now that emphasis is gone. With 15bps caps and ramping, more emphasis is put on strategy and thinking. So, NewMagMan21, you are complaining about a factor in our sport that promotes using your head more. I'd rather play a smart game with 15bps ramping than some idiotic "chicken without a head" game whre everyone is just running around shooting as fast as they can (Aka NPPL). And just for clarification, a lot more cheating happens in the NPPL (semi only) than in PSP/CFOA/etc (15bps ramping). Please get your priorities straight and/or support your rant with facts.

[SCpoloRicker]

RAWWRRR

teh ramping is teh suxorzs!!1

[Indignant]

omgstfu

/punch In Face

[SCpoloRicker]

Do you even go to school anymore? ;)

[Death of Rats]

I don't think it is neccasarily the ramping or cheater board that bothers me

unless it has to do with increasing the velocity (anyone doing this should be taken out and shot, with their own marker of course)

what bothers me about all of these boards basically come down to three very easy to see points.

1st. The usage of more paint than even the high end triggers that people could actually truthfully shoot couldn't let loose. Four cases in one day unless you are at a scenario just shooting at human hordes is ridiculus. Honestly why people.

2nd. We as a community (paintballers) should quit referring to anything that increases the rate of fire of a paintball marker as a cheater board. Unless said board is being used in a way that is forbidden on a field or in woods than it is not a cheater board.

3rd. The truly worst thing that has come not only from the cheater boards but from the high end electro triggers (yes in a time of weakness I bought one of these guns however since then I have been trying to remove it from my personal arsenal.) Back to the worst thing these triggers cause significant amounts of actual cheating/wiping that is going on. Where the boards should not be called by the cheater title I want all people who wipe be it in a tournament or otherwise to be labled as such. Sadly these triggers have help to start a serious trend. And these people wipe due to the amount of paint in the air. They don't want to spend 200 dollars for entry fee into a tournament and get knocked out by a lucky ball off the break. But then they practice their supposed art in recball games. And they destroy the sport. YES DESTROY THE WONDERFUL SPORT THAT IS PAINTBALL. So they wipe. This drives me batty. I don't care if you are the kid that just started to sport or Chris laswhatever his name is this is very bad. I know that there were wipers before the high end guns however now the numbers are rising. Loose fitting clothing to get more bounces don't tell me you people are comfortable in those jerseys in 100 degree heat. I laugh at those people. then saying oh but i need an undershirt too. ARRRGHHHh.

It has become an arms race. We are putting out higher end markers to put out higher end body armors.

Sorry about the rant. It just gets on my nerves. We as a sport must be honorable to grow.

[phantomhitman]

I challenged this board on the hypocrisy found on it by some people awhile back and was told it didn't exist. Bounce and run away are cool, Predator / Morlocked E-mags and Devilmags are great, hybrid mode is just awesome. But controlled ramping is "cheating" and apparently those who use / promote / or accept it, even within the confines of the rules, are idiots. :tard: :confused: :rolleyes: At least thats the opinion I get from some fraction of these boards.

ding ding ding, i agree

also, i guess they should take down the low end guns with burst and full auto modes too right?

[68magOwner]

I am a better player playing in semi only events than i am at ramping events.

Because, i can shoot fast, shoot offhanded, shoot while reloading, shoot while crawling, run and gun effectively, ect. Things that not everyone can do in strict semi. Where as, with ramping, anyone can do any of the formentioned things with ease.

That is what is negative about ramping for me, it took skills which took months or years to perfect and basically handed them out to everyone. So, where as i was "talented" because i could do all my shooting stuff well, now anyone can, so, im just another kid on the field.

Playing with ramping has put more emphasis on strategy, teamwork, and being able to think quickly/adapt to changes, and make moves. But, id still prefer play semi only whenever applicable.

[phantomhitman]

I am a better player playing in semi only events than i am at ramping events.

Because, i can shoot fast, shoot offhanded, shoot while reloading, shoot while crawling, run and gun effectively, ect. Things that not everyone can do in strict semi. Where as, with ramping, anyone can do any of the formentioned things with ease.

That is what is negative about ramping for me, it took skills which took months or years to perfect and basically handed them out to everyone. So, where as i was "talented" because i could do all my shooting stuff well, now anyone can, so, im just another kid on the field.

Playing with ramping has put more emphasis on strategy, teamwork, and being able to think quickly/adapt to changes, and make moves. But, id still prefer play semi only whenever applicable.

ding ding ding, we have another winner. that is exactly how i feel about the introduction of ramping into the sport. but i am not going to cry about it.

[Dayspring]

1st. The usage of more paint than even the high end triggers that people could actually truthfully shoot couldn't let loose. Four cases in one day unless you are at a scenario just shooting at human hordes is ridiculus. Honestly why people.


Never played at a big tournament then have you?




Loose fitting clothing to get more bounces don't tell me you people are comfortable in those jerseys in 100 degree heat. I laugh at those people. then saying oh but i need an undershirt too. ARRRGHHHh..

As opposed to a non baggy one? Yup. I'd rather have something that's a bit more flowy than closer to the body on a hot day. And the rule is "No GROSSLY OVERSIZED clothing or more than 2 layers." So a XL jersey and a tshirt underneath is completely within the rules.

Not to pick on you, but you sound like you're a woods/rec player. Go to IAO, go to NPPL/PSP and play a tourney. See how long your views will stay the way they do if you want to actually compete.

(I do agree that wipers suck b/c it can totally ruin a day of play. But high end electros had NOTHING to do with wipers coming about. Did it increase it? A little, but not as much as you might think.)

[firebanex]

Mike at CCI is the best.

ramping; its your choice to shoot so much, I would rather play wiht my mech cocker and my phantom than shoot an egun.

[CKY_Alliance]

Speaking of action village, you know what sickens me.

If you have ordered from them lately you will see that the free ups shipping they used to offer has downgraded from UPS to USPS. How crummy is that, it took like 10 days for a package that used to take less than a week to get to me.

Something I have learned is that the ENTIRE PAINTBALL INDUSTRY SUCKS AT QUALITY CONTROL AND/OR CUSTOMER SERVICE. I have yet to find a company that truly is an exception, in any other idustry half these companies would not survive. Oh well I guess thats what we get when more than half the client base are minors, and everybody is out to make a quick buck.

Just pay the little extra money...i didnt have a free shipping option so i checked what i think it was 4-8 was and 2-6 was only like 1 or 2 more..so i got that and both packages came within 2 days. Its free what do you expect...but yea usps is cheaper...

[Death of Rats]

As opposed to a non baggy one? Yup. I'd rather have something that's a bit more flowy than closer to the body on a hot day. And the rule is "No GROSSLY OVERSIZED clothing or more than 2 layers." So a XL jersey and a tshirt underneath is completely within the rules.


Yes yes I have played at tournaments and yes I know that is what people wear. I was trying to make a point about the larger jerseys. I don't really care if they are within the rules or not if you have ever seen someone wear one you surely know that there only real purpose other than to stop the pain of horrible overshooting at extreme close range(evil electros) is to gain as many bounces as physically possible. I find this to be a mild form of cheating IN MY OPINION. I know that they are within the rules however rules as well as rule makers have been wrong before. Pope Innocent the Third. Hey lets castrate boys to make for better singers. Not a very good rule. (sorry that was really random but still) .

I play recball now days simply because the tournament seen has turned to far away from what I consider to be a fun game.

Really come on though. Do you really need 4 cases of paint for 7 games of paintball. How accurate are you???

[Faddy]

Yes yes I have played at tournaments and yes I know that is what people wear. I was trying to make a point about the larger jerseys. I don't really care if they are within the rules or not if you have ever seen someone wear one you surely know that there only real purpose other than to stop the pain of horrible overshooting at extreme close range(evil electros) is to gain as many bounces as physically possible. I find this to be a mild form of cheating IN MY OPINION. I know that they are within the rules however rules as well as rule makers have been wrong before.

Mild form of cheating? Come on, you're either cheating or your not. Even though it's trite to say, this is like saying, "She has a mild form of pregnancy." She's either pregnant or not. The definition of cheating is to violate the rules. You even admitted that these clothes are within the rules. That automatically makes it not cheating.


Pope Innocent the Third. Hey lets castrate boys to make for better singers. Not a very good rule. (sorry that was really random but still) .

And this is in relation to cheating how? Yeah, it was a bad idea. Yeah, maybe allowing some forms of baggy clothing is a bad idea, but that baggy clothing is within the rules, meaning it is not cheating. Just because something is a bad idea does not make it cheating. Remember, constant air used to be considered a "bad idea." Compressed air used to be considered a "bad idea." Many things in paintball have been considered "bad ideas," even after the became allowed. If they were allowed, was it cheating to use them?

Now, with regards to ramping boards and things like that. I think they're fun to play with, but I have yet to use any mode other than semi on a field. Why? I don't believe in it. I think people use it as a crutch. I shoot plenty fast enough without modes. So, I think we're in agreement with some things. :cheers:

[phantomhitman]

Yes yes I have played at tournaments and yes I know that is what people wear. I was trying to make a point about the larger jerseys. I don't really care if they are within the rules or not if you have ever seen someone wear one you surely know that there only real purpose other than to stop the pain of horrible overshooting at extreme close range(evil electros) is to gain as many bounces as physically possible. I find this to be a mild form of cheating IN MY OPINION. I know that they are within the rules however rules as well as rule makers have been wrong before. Pope Innocent the Third. Hey lets castrate boys to make for better singers. Not a very good rule. (sorry that was really random but still) .

I play recball now days simply because the tournament seen has turned to far away from what I consider to be a fun game.

Really come on though. Do you really need 4 cases of paint for 7 games of paintball. How accurate are you???
hey, you forgot to put the sarcastic smily at the end. Because that is all this whole post is.

[Indignant]

Really come on though. Do you really need 4 cases of paint for 7 games of paintball. How accurate are you???


What do you think we play with, rifles? They don't go right where you shoot it, it takes a few balls to hit someone most of the time. There's also this cool thing called laning, it shoots people out alot of the time.

/prepares for the influx of pump-nazi's

[Lohman446]

I commonly score several eliminations per hopper, and yes I play tournament. The thing is, without backplayers willing to expend several pods to move me, it would not happen.

[Target Practice]

What do you think we play with, rifles?

Yes. I mean, I do.

[SCpoloRicker]

Yes. I mean, I do.

You should see the welts.

[oELEPHANTo]

Speaking of action village, you know what sickens me.

If you have ordered from them lately you will see that the free ups shipping they used to offer has downgraded from UPS to USPS. How crummy is that, it took like 10 days for a package that used to take less than a week to get to me.

Something I have learned is that the ENTIRE PAINTBALL INDUSTRY SUCKS AT QUALITY CONTROL AND/OR CUSTOMER SERVICE. I have yet to find a company that truly is an exception, in any other idustry half these companies would not survive. Oh well I guess thats what we get when more than half the client base are minors, and everybody is out to make a quick buck.
The folks at Q-Loader are nice. There customer service pwns. :dance:

[Dayspring]

Apparently you've never made the finals... :rolleyes:


Really come on though. Do you really need 4 cases of paint for 7 games of paintball. How accurate are you???

[germanman]

Well, hopefully I will get the new E-Mag pred board, so I'll have the firepower to fight back AO style :shooting:

[WARPED1]

Ramping is not cheating anymore.

[NewMagMan21]

Well...Im sorry for not clarifying...I cant believe one word destorys my whole statement. So for some of those who tell me to get my facts straight...shut up and burn. :tard: :rofl:
I dont have a problem with ramping when its capped. But when you make boards that have the ability to go higher than the highest cap (15?). Then thats just stupid...especially when there are modes/ features to quickly turn off this dangerously high ramping (yes I said dangerous, getting hit 20 times for point blank is dangerous) so they cant be caught with it.

For some of you that said its a good thing for our sport, and it makes you play smarter. I also pleasently disagree. I dont think it makes anyone play better especially if everyone of both teams are using it. If anything its just a different style of play involving more paint being thrown. If you dont like movement then thats your veiw of playing...I myself think you should move as much as possible and the only reason you can is the foul up of the other team and good move your team...and they did it by themselves not with the help of their marker's abilities.

Maybe Im just old school but I still think it should only take one ball...that is a common misconception in the tourney world...It very commonly takes many more shots what with the wiping and the calls hard to make, and the players playing until the ref calls them...(No honor anymore)

I honestly have only recently gotten back into the tourney world...Im not saying Im an experienced vetran but before this ramping stuff was not common...But what set me off when I was away playing strictly rec...I saw/played with someone who (while playin rec mind you) was ramped up to 20 bps and honestly was horrible at the game...He shot only the actual bunkers, wouldnt move when noone was shooting at him...I was to find out that he was a novice player for a team...and it just sickens me that firepower has just taken over complete skill in some cases...(honestly I dont know how common this is but for me it is quite oftenly found)...That is what sickens me, That is why I vomit, and that is why this is wrong.
I hope I explained my thoughts better even though I'll prolly end up getting verbally raped either way.

[ultralight]

Apparently you've never made the finals... :rolleyes:

apparently were feeling a bit elitist today. :rolleyes:
by the way, thanks again for being the only one to respond to my tech question.

with regards to ramping and calling ramping boards cheater boards:

i think that ramping boards are fine but the big problem that i see with them is that only a small percentage of the paintballers who look at the ad for that board would actually use that board where it is meant to be used, in a tournament. i think that it is safe to say that a large number of the millions of people who play paintball will never play in speedball or airball tournaments. they may play woodsball, semi only, or pump tournys but that is getting off topic. most of the people who see those boards are going to be rec ballers who think that it will be cool to shoot faster than all of their friends. those may not be a large percentage of the people who actually buy the board at first, but as more and more pro, semi pro, and local tournament players start using ramping the occurance of kids thinking that it is appropriate for rec play will start to increase.
and let's face it, tournament style play is only fun to for a limited segment of players. that's why only a limited segment of players stay in tournament paintball.

as for those that see ramping as cheating, well technically it isn't. so, sorry. you lose. but i can see where you're coming from. it's like if one day the mayor of your city said that because the police were unable to stop all of the murders, that murder was now going to be legal. but you have a limit to the murders that you can commit in a given period of time. i know that murder is a bit harsh but i'm just making a (albeit exaggerated) point. which is, many people are finding it hard to get used to the fact that the game they have come to love is changing. especially because this change only came about due to the inability of the authorities to do anything about it other than to try to accept and regulate it. like if the government stopped wasting money on the war on drugs and just taxed the heck out of legal use instead.

and for those that have the all-change-is-good-get-over-it-or-be-left-behind-you-freaking-caveman attitude well, what if they did something similar for wiping? you get to wipe the first two breaks but the third sends you out? or what if you get to stay in if you wipe the hit on the ground and only the ground? would you stand behind that change as well? what about if they let the guys in the dead box talk?

to all who replied at this point (if any) sorry, i hit the submit button accidentally.

anyway, i'm not saying that the changes that i just suggested would add anything to the game but i was simply trying to illustrate that accepting cheating simply because people continue to break the rules would be a bad thing. if applied to other rules and could lead to future generations of players questioning the validity of the remaning rules and why they should be followed.
i am with several of the others who say that ramping is at least a bit safer than runaway or bounce. but then again we're assuming that the player has the discretion to use ramping responsibly and only in tournaments or games where the players are in agreement that it is ok. in my experience that has not been the case. i have seen plenty of walk on rec players shooting either ramping ions and matrices or e/rt triggered tippmanns shooting way too fast and putting way too many balls on one individual player because they didn't have time to react after they saw the first balls hit their target. or i suppose it could be because they didn't care. in my opinion, paintball is about fun. getting completely pelted by one guy (hey, if you have multiple players shooting at you it is different) is not fun.

sorry to throw the phonebook at you. :cheers:

[dagon]

i play mainly scenario, in sc ga fl. the problem with ramping is not the rate of fire, rather over shooting. as members of the "paintball community" too, our job to grow the sport. there is a difference between covever fire and bunkering someone at 20+bps. we all know that andif you don't you need to put down the emarker and start with pump. first learn to hit a taget then go to the e toys. companies that make thes peices are just catering to a market that we as a group created. their concern is simply to make money. the use of these products is up to us.have honor and demand the same from others

well said rat
so to make a long story short, it is up to us to play right. :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

[dagon]

if any one is interested we have been havining a similar conversation at http://www.pbjunkie.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=100
ths is the pb junkie site. we are having a free finnally oct 10th.

[NewMagMan21]

My beliefs exactly for the last to comments...I may have been hasty in saying ramping is cheating...(I meant over the limit dangerously...sorry should have specified)
Ultralight...that is an awsome metaphor(?)...er just way of putting it

[phantomhitman]

Everyone saying people getting bunkered 20+ times are full of it. The people that get lit up are the front guys trying to beat the guys stream. When you run to bunker someone you will hit someone 5-7 times at most because you are running and gunning, you are not going to walk up behind him, stop, hose the guy and walk away. Overshooting has always been a problem since back in the mag-cocker days. Even though they were slower, they were not turtles. You can see old videos of the wood ballers complaining just as much as the new guys of today. Just because some guys have hot heads doesnt mean all tourney players are going to argue, wipe, overshoot, and cry about everything.

The scenario guys can chill out too. They openly use FULL AUTO with no cap on rof. I have never seen a scenario flyer, or been to a scenario, that has any caps on rates of fire. In fact, scenario guys brag about those features more than tourney guys, they modify their equipment in unsafe ways (cutting or adding items to masks, modifying guns with custom parts, etc), and they will paint a whole village pink instead of actually running in and sweeping the place. I have never once heard a tourney guy rag on scenario people but that is not true the other way around. So you guys get off your high horse and stop pointing fingers, a paintballer is a paintballer. Ramping was never considered cheating, it was developed on purpose to level the field and help stop cheating. You guys are confusing ramping with the "cheater boards" that added a shot here or there, or dropped debounce to 1, or secretly turned on and off with a certain button press. In tourneys all guns are SUPPOSED to be locked in at no more than 15 bps, with no way to adjust it other than flipping the dip switches on the board. You cannot simply press something and get up to 20.

Why cant we just say I dont like the tourney scene, or I would rather play tourney ball instead of saying the whole group of people are mean/cheat/ramp/no skill/fat/old/etc? It is an arguement that will never stop because someone always think their ideas are superior to others.......... :confused:

[Death of Rats]

I have never once heard a tourney guy rag on scenario people but that is not true the other way around.


Was that sarcasm???

You are right about the ragging on the diffrent parts of paintball thou. Everyone has there own thing, some people like the tournaments where your days are filled with terms such as laning, ramping, jerseys, NPPL Girls(only part I really enjoy) prizes, off the break, cheating(even though this is found in other forms of paintball yes, yet not nearly as often most likely due to prizes) and many others. This might not be my scene anymore as I have come to learn in the last few months however for some this is the end all be all of paintball. For those people I hope you enjoy it. I will try not to make fun of any part of the tournament scene if I can so help me God. (other than wiping) (I hate Wiping) (I appear to like parenthesis a lot thou).

Last thing. The pope innocent the third allowing for the castration of little boys to make better singers was not about cheating even though i would whole heartedly endorse any child who tried to cheat his way out of that one, but it was about some rules even though they exist are utterly stupid. Had to make that point.

[Beemer]

The scenario guys can chill out too. They openly use FULL AUTO with no cap on rof. I have never seen a scenario flyer, or been to a scenario, that has any caps on rates of fire.


Players are responsible for ensuring their paintball gear meets all ASTM and insurance standards and are within the set range of posted chronographed feet-per-second prior to entering the field of play at every insertion.

From here

http://www.celebritypaintball.com/eventinfo.html

A.S.T.M 6.5.4 All paintball markers shall only operate in semiautomatic
or pump mode and may not operate in other discharge modes such as burst,
enhanced trigger or fullyautomatic discharge mode.

I have never seen a Flyer saying FA allowed.

___________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[Lohman446]

A.S.T.M 6.5.4 All paintball markers shall only operate in semiautomatic
or pump mode and may not operate in other discharge modes such as burst,
enhanced trigger or fullyautomatic discharge mode.

I have never seen a Flyer saying FA allowed.



And for those of you who think that PSP has said ramping is allowed you need to reread the ruels. They just very carefully define the tests they will do and what a marker must pass in a way that leaves over 3BPS and under 15BPS in a vague area. Its not the PSP that is going to take the fall for ramping tragedies should they occur

[phantomhitman]

I have never seen a Flyer saying FA allowed.

I have never seen a flyer say no full auto or burst either. You have to be brain dead to even think that the scenario guys play legal one shot one pull. Look at videos of any scenario you can find, full auto on every gun capable of it. Like I said before, I am by no means a scenario guy and have only attended a handful of them but I do read all the info about them as I come across posts. I am sure some events are regulated more than others.

And the whole "blame the tourney guys for wiping-cheating-ramping" has to stop because:
1-first and foremost we are not the only ones that do it, everyone has idiots in their type of paintball that do this.
2-just because someone at your local tourney has done it or some pros do it DOES NOT mean everyone does.

I absolutely hate when solely woodsballers come to my field and say we suck because we shoot so much paint. Yet these same guys go out and hide behind the biggest tree they can find for 20 minutes until the other guys get bored and move and then they paint the forest pink. They call it tactics or strategy, I call it a waste of time and boring. They like it, so I let them be, yet I am suppose to take their crap because I play tourney style ball?! I hear this at every field I go to, and every scenario game I have attended. Some is all in good fun but some people are dead set in believing that tourney style ball requiers no skill. They will not step onto a field with us, yet they say we cannot aim, have no skill, and it requires no talent.

If you dont like it because of the amount of paint being shot fine, just do not say we cannot aim. They game has changed and the amount of paint needed to stop people is higher. Or you could step out with your phantom and gog someone on more than one occasion. Just because you shot out someone with a pump does not make you a magical unicorn sniper and in the mystical world of your mind think your <insert gun name here> is better than someone elses $1200+ gun. They are tools of the trade, some people like differnt things. Until you can get your squad of 5 rec/woods/scenario people to beat a decent tourney team on an airball field on a consistant basis do not say their is no tactics or skill involved. Different style of play does not mean that style is wrong, if it is not you then by all means dont like it. Just remember you do not like someone ragging on your (in a serious way) style so dont rag on theirs. I know tourney people are made up of a lot of immature little kids, mainly at local levels, but please do not think everyone is like that.

I call for a truce between everyone, before I emotionally breakdown at field from being shot in the face by a noob woodsballing scenario guy using a pump on co2 catridges ;)

[Tunaman]

I challenged this board on the hypocrisy found on it by some people awhile back and was told it didn't exist. Bounce and run away are cool, Predator / Morlocked E-mags and Devilmags are great, hybrid mode is just awesome. But controlled ramping is "cheating" and apparently those who use / promote / or accept it, even within the confines of the rules, are idiots. :tard: :confused: :rolleyes: At least thats the opinion I get from some fraction of these boards.
I agree. What ever happened to one shot one pull? Anything more is cheating in my book... ;)

[phantomhitman]

I agree. What ever happened to one shot one pull? Anything more is cheating in my book... ;)

there we go, a clean cut answer that everyone can hopefuly agree on.

[Tunaman]

*ahem*

IT'S NOT CHEATING, IT IS A WIDELY ACCEPTED MODE OF FIRE IN MANY TOURNAMENTS AND TOURNAMENT SERIES.

It's only cheating if you're not allowed to do it. PERIOD.

Doesn't mean I really like it. But at least it's not dangerous. You want to talk about dangerous, put a mag on runaway or a semi timmy in uberbounce mode. THAT'S cheating.These statements are pure hypocrisy. A bouncing mechanical mag is cheating in the same terms as software running electros? You have got to be kidding me. Widely accepted? Not dangerous? Kinda like this ? (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183507)

[phantomhitman]

These statements are pure hypocrisy. A bouncing mechanical mag is cheating in the same terms as software running electros? You have got to be kidding me. Widely accepted? Not dangerous? Kinda like this ? (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183507)


ppssttttt tuna, that was not done by a ramping gun (See even Tuna jumped the gun on this one. We get blamed for everything).

Also, I think he is talking about mech mag bounce (no controlled rate of bps) as compared to a mode of fire used by at least 3 big tourney series. AO in general has a clear cut line between old school people and new style people with very few in between that dont give a dang. You mention an emarker besides agds and everyone brings up bouncing, ramping, and tourney style play which leads to saying how tourney players cheat, wipe, and kill little babies. However you show a video of a bouncy mag and everyone jumps onto the speed bandwagon and says how cool it is.

[NewMagMan21]

sadly I believe he speaks the truth...

[Lohman446]

These statements are pure hypocrisy. A bouncing mechanical mag is cheating in the same terms as software running electros? You have got to be kidding me. Widely accepted? Not dangerous? Kinda like this ? (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183507)

A ramping marker using good software (and some of the software is not good by these terms) quits firing the moment you quit pulling the trigger, and does not engage ramping early - before three shots (I would rather see it six shots but...). When dealing with bounce, be it mechanical or switch noise induced such as a Timmy you do not have this same amount of control.

That being said, why do we beleive it safe? Because nothing has happened yet? The only scientific tests that I am aware of (ASTM) forbid anything but semi-auto and pump for a reason. May this be conservative? Sure, most definetly. However, until I see scientific testing that I could use to defend myself in a legal situation, I am going to continue to accept that I need to follow ASTM guidelines.

For those of you who beleive that firepower = winning in tournaments. I was at a tournament this weekend, the last day of a monthly league that they asked us to fill in at for a team that could not make it. 3 man, 8 games, my team went through a total of less than two cases of paint (I think I used 400 rounds or so), and we did fine.

[ZEROte]

A ramping marker using good software (and some of the software is not good by these terms) quits firing the moment you quit pulling the trigger, and does not engage ramping early - before three shots (I would rather see it six shots but...). When dealing with bounce, be it mechanical or switch noise induced such as a Timmy you do not have this same amount of control.

That being said, why do we beleive it safe? Because nothing has happened yet? The only scientific tests that I am aware of (ASTM) forbid anything but semi-auto and pump for a reason. May this be conservative? Sure, most definetly. However, until I see scientific testing that I could use to defend myself in a legal situation, I am going to continue to accept that I need to follow ASTM guidelines.

For those of you who beleive that firepower = winning in tournaments. I was at a tournament this weekend, the last day of a monthly league that they asked us to fill in at for a team that could not make it. 3 man, 8 games, my team went through a total of less than two cases of paint (I think I used 400 rounds or so), and we did fine.

define fine. because fine for you could be you came in 25th overall. but fine for me is nothing less than 6th of 30.

[Lohman446]

define fine. because fine for you could be you came in 25th overall. but fine for me is nothing less than 6th of 30.

Fine for me is being competetive in nearly every game, not being rolled over time after time - first in this particular instance, though there were only 8 teams present.

[FSU_Paintball]

Fine does not equal winning... and 25th out of how many teams?

I'd like to know how much paint the teams that made finals, and the team that won shot.

[Lohman446]

Fine does not equal winning... and 25th out of how many teams?

I'd like to know how much paint the teams that made finals, and the team that won shot.


The team that won shot 2 cases

[FSU_Paintball]

Well then I'm impressed, but also curious to know about the skill level of the tourney, which unfortunately is a very subjective measurement

I've won on very few cases of paint as a team but not at tourneys where I played lots of games against GOOD teams. I agree that accuracy is important, but I think volume with it is a better strategy... if you control the lanes of the field, you control the movement of the field, and any team worth its salt won't be hiding behind their bunkers if you don't have a line of paint coming at them.

[Lohman446]

Well then I'm impressed, but also curious to know about the skill level of the tourney, which unfortunately is a very subjective measurement


Its hard to even make it a qualitative way of telling you. The teams we played were not the top 20% I have ever played, nor were they the bottom 20%. We got a few lucky lucky breaks throughout the day, minimized errors on our part, and used the field layout to our advantage. When I say lucky - I was shot out once over the entire day

[FSU_Paintball]

That's pretty cool. I love days like that.