How much can we really improve now?

[Will Wood]

Is it just more, or does it seem Paintball is coming to a platue pretty soon, if it isn't already on it? Any improvements are minor in new generations. Pretty much all the high end markers are going to perform the same. It all comes down to preferences.

So now isn't it all about who's got to size and weight. Which is pretty much the developements we've been seing.
So performance is basically topped off IMO, it's going to be harder to get any lighter. What's next for paintball?
Looks and Price is all I can say..
/Randomness.
Whatcha all think? Am I tottaly wrong and things are going to improve, or is the technology going nowhere (minus the possibility of changing over to electro instead of air)

[SlartyBartFast]

What more do we need?

When was the last time real sports changed the technology of their equipment?

[Carbon]

People need to change.

[Will Wood]

Not saying we need more Slarty, I would have said we could have stoped years ago..

I'm just saying really, where do think the next big innovations will be made in paintball I guess.

[dahoeb]

i agree homeland.
with the current technology we use, i don't know if we can physically be any better. maybe the "perfect" paintball, with perfect roundness and conformity. but as far as guns go, maybe more efficiency.

until some really crazy new technology is explored, i don't think it'll move too much from where we are right now.

[magman007]

What more do we need?

When was the last time real sports changed the technology of their equipment?


All the time. How about lacrosse? The off set head? more flexible golves? more protective and lighter helmets?

Hockey? new equipment, new sticks, etc etc that are leaps and bounds over their predecessors just 2 years ago.

how about football? pads? lighter, stronger, etc.

baseball? bats, they may be planks of wood, but they do change, cleats? gloves? yea.

[zorrotmm]

Technology has caught up to paintball. But I think that has created some different problems. The next step needs to be standardization of equipment and players. If we don't harness the technology, paintball is going to remain an extreme sport and will never be able to make its way into the maintstream.

[quik]

CARBON FIBER GUNS.

You heard it from me first folks.

[SCpoloRicker]

CARBON FIBER

OMGWTFBBQ!!1TWO!


/DMC?

[etjoyride]

double the amount of paintballs in a loader half the size, and even more shots from smaller tank :)

[deadbox101]

double the amount of paintballs in a loader half the size, and even more shots from smaller tank :)

Kinda like this? 10,000 shots per tank, and they look a hell of alot smaller.

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=335935

[Richter]

Things will improve hopefully.

I think I understand what Carbon said about people need to change/improve; the influence of infectious bad attitudes and cheating have been spreading like the plague. These attitudes and behaviors need improvement.

I think services at most paintball fields need improvement:

My wish list for fields:

A professional looking establishment/atmosphere and nothing that looks ghetto;

Professional looking/acting refs:
A uniform or at least a ref shirt with the following attire on them:
Handheld chronograph
Allen keys
Some type of noise maker to start the games
A couple of squeegees to help renters
Rag to help clean up and help renters
A time clock that also has the ability to count the game time
Radio communication device
Of course cleats

If it is scenario/big game that uses a punch holes for bad playing or hot guns; every ref should have hole puncher and the above mentioned.

Places that scrutinizes cheaters and actively enforces their own rules.

As for technology:

This year we now have a flatline barrel for most markers (apex barrel by BT Paintball)
Chronographs/sound analyzers that counts bps or your marker on the field.

What improvements I would like to see:

Full electronic marker that uses no air that shoots as well as the markers of today

A football shape or bullet shape ball that is really accurate and a clip driven feed system for it (they can have whatever shape just as long as they are more accurate than a round ball)

Some cool props for scenario games that are affordable like a motion sensor mortar; or a sentry gun 

Some type or goggle system that is really comfortable and makes it so you can see a person’s whole face so you know who is behind the mask. Sometimes I miss when all you had to wear was your goggles and not the mask.

A material for jerseys and pants that let you feel the hit but protects you from large welts that is also breathable and comfortable. (Not really sure if this is even possible)

Cheap open source standardized code for all/most paintball electronic boards/chips or a standard way to look at the source (wireless device that downloads each board’s source code to check if it meets a conformed standard)

That’s all I can think of right now

[Teamslayer76]

Kinda like this? 10,000 shots per tank, and they look a hell of alot smaller.

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=335935


Wow, thats amazing. I look foward to this.

But as for advancing. We've beaten this subject..to death! We've reached a plateau in my opinion. But you gota think who needs to shoot 41bps? No one. :rofl:

[onedude36]

Super light, durrable force feed loaders capable of at least 15.

Hip, Hip, Hazah

[Scott Hudnall]

Less expensive better quality paint.

And don't flame this post with the "well...back in the day I paid $125 a case blah blah blah"...I played then, too, and was a field owner selling it for less.

production costs vs. consumer costs for paint has been upside down for years.

[68magOwner]

guns will always get lighter/smaller, improvements will come in reliability, consistency, and efficency next. Im shure someone will make other nifty features when all that is tanke care of. Saying markers have hit a plateau is like saying that a new computer cant be improved on. I think new developments in loaders and air systems or other propellants are comming up too (i know that there is new kind of tank comeing from korea or something that is suppossed to be 1lb lighter than any current tank (68/45 to 68/45 comparison)).

[AKBAR]

a marker that teleports shots behind whatever cover the other guy is crouching behind.

No, better yet, AGD making another gun. And seriously, players and refs both need improving. You hear too many stories of wipes or players going bezerk for getting hit. Reality check time. Definately have to agree, refs need to start enforcing the rules more. A more friendly environment for the newbies would help pball to go more mainstream than it already is. Also, the next evolution: price drops on paint. And AGD making another gun...hint hint Tom...

[behemoth]

What do we need?

Well, the US patent office wanted to close in 1900 because "Everything that can possibly be invented, has been invented"

-- We dont know it now, but something will come along, and we'll wonder how we ever lived without it.

[Jazkal]

a marker that teleports shots behind whatever cover the other guy is crouching behind.
Thats here already, well almost. It's called the Apex Barrel, and it isn't Hype. This barrel will change the way paintball is played.


Unless they ban it outright, people are really afraid of change. I hear it in arguments all the time, paintball needs to evolve, get with the program, RAMPING is where paintball is headed. etc

Personally, I don't use ramping, never will. But the Apex, I own one and love it. Better start either planning how to deal with it on the field, or whine to the Tourney leaders to ban it.

[AKBAR]

Oh, and I just had some more deep thoughts...smaller paintballs.

Now, I'm not just talking about a few mm smaller, I'm talking like making them much smaller, perhaps half or a 3/4 of what they are now. You could shoot them further, pack more in your hopper, pods, etc. It would also be nice to double what you bought in the past...2000 balls for 40-80 bucks, now boxed 4000 for the same price. Though there is just something about the size of paintballs that is impressive, I'm sure if you raised the fps of guns the smaller ones would hurt just the same or even worse, but they could become dangerous at very high speeds...

[Skoad]

color lcd screens and mp3 players in grips w/ headphone jack :eek: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[NewMagMan21]

Honestly Guns have hit somewhat of a plateau...I mean I cant see (not that there wont be) any major advances in gun development I mean all the basics that everyones listed, efficiency, consistency, weight ...and all that stuff. So I think that as opposed to only thinking on guns I think technology should be more focused on feild/ sport development. I think we need to turn this sport more mainstream (more than it is) by:

-Putting paintball on tv more often (people wont cheat as much if they world is watching them)
-Harsher punishments (in any other sport you get in a fight you're suspended, and maybe in this worse cases losing a tourney)
-Electronically monitered paintball guns (Helps regulate gun cheats velocity, bps ect.)
-Commercials and advertisement for games/ products (more the merrier right?)
-Apply ninjas as refs :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:
-Overall regulation of tempers, and cheating just everthing that makes other sports like baseball, football, soccer ect. the commonly watched sports that we all know and love...

[kman]

Yea things have leveled off. The industry is still in its infancy though.

[VFX_Fenix]

Some type or goggle system that is really comfortable and makes it so you can see a person’s whole face so you know who is behind the mask. Sometimes I miss when all you had to wear was your goggles and not the mask.

Lexan is your friend, someothing like this is already around, they wear them in basketball.

[ultralight]

Lexan is your friend, someothing like this is already around, they wear them in basketball.

they already used something similar on a British TV show called X-fire.

the players and actors had full head helmets with one-piece wrap around lexan face shields.

really nice stuff. a company could just make it more compact and ventilate it properly i think it could be a good thing.

ok, so they aren't as nice as i remebered but i still think they have potential.

here's (http://members.lycos.co.uk/iutyiurtvnvtbsit/) the link, there are various pictures of it on the site, on the bottom of the first page, and the first pic in the "x-fire photos" section.

[TheTramp]

Someone mentioned it briefly already but I think that the tankless gun Manike premeired a while ago could be the start of something big. If they can improve that tech to the point that it could shoot 15bps and have a battery that lasted all day or even half a day then I'd jump all over it.

[deadbox101]

I dont want electronic guns because then it reminds me too much of playing airsoft. A tank is another way to customize your gun. And besides you will still need a stock in place of the tank.


But fully electric guns wont be around for awhile because batteries have leveled off.

[SpitFire1299]

I say people drops down to pump guns, and guns that are single trigger.. if the "platue" is seen by those with the $1,500 setups.

[Gatorade]

-Apply ninjas as refs :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:
I am a ninja ref :ninja: ... (OK, I'm not really a ninja, but I like to pretend sometimes)

[kman]

Things will improve hopefully.

I think I understand what Carbon said about people need to change/improve; the influence of infectious bad attitudes and cheating have been spreading like the plague. These attitudes and behaviors need improvement.

I think services at most paintball fields need improvement:

My wish list for fields:

A professional looking establishment/atmosphere and nothing that looks ghetto;

Professional looking/acting refs:
A uniform or at least a ref shirt with the following attire on them:
Handheld chronograph
Allen keys
Some type of noise maker to start the games
A couple of squeegees to help renters
Rag to help clean up and help renters
A time clock that also has the ability to count the game time
Radio communication device
Of course cleats

If it is scenario/big game that uses a punch holes for bad playing or hot guns; every ref should have hole puncher and the above mentioned.

Places that scrutinizes cheaters and actively enforces their own rules.

As for technology:

This year we now have a flatline barrel for most markers (apex barrel by BT Paintball)
Chronographs/sound analyzers that counts bps or your marker on the field.

What improvements I would like to see:

Full electronic marker that uses no air that shoots as well as the markers of today

A football shape or bullet shape ball that is really accurate and a clip driven feed system for it (they can have whatever shape just as long as they are more accurate than a round ball)

Some cool props for scenario games that are affordable like a motion sensor mortar; or a sentry gun 

Some type or goggle system that is really comfortable and makes it so you can see a person’s whole face so you know who is behind the mask. Sometimes I miss when all you had to wear was your goggles and not the mask.

A material for jerseys and pants that let you feel the hit but protects you from large welts that is also breathable and comfortable. (Not really sure if this is even possible)

Cheap open source standardized code for all/most paintball electronic boards/chips or a standard way to look at the source (wireless device that downloads each board’s source code to check if it meets a conformed standard)

That’s all I can think of right now


I agree with this for fields. In addition I would like to see the sport become more mainstream with alot more people and big outside sponsors. We are now on TV, so hopefully more and more people than ever will get into the sport. Technology now is pretty advanced, so i would just like to see the sport itself explode.

[nippinout]

I don't think lighter equipment is going to improve anybody's game. I don't think even 1% of us actually train to play paintball, other than dumping cases of paint at the range.

What makes me want to get new snowboard or paintball equipment? They make the stuff look badass every year. It's all about aesthetics at this point.

[tae]

Theres to much to read right now, so i dont know if this was said or not. I have alway though that hoppers are some sort of archaic complication that people have stuck with thinking there is no better way. There has been some growth in the loading tech, but I plan to make a hopper outa PVC or some damn thing (nuts to weight, me strong like bull!) to make less obstructive hopper. That feature alone has kept so many people I know away form the game. I have seen clip loading markers popping up because of the popularity of scenario games. So, if you ask me, there definitely will be a combination of smaller, more efficient and effective guns. Its really about what the players will demand from the sport as it grows. Smaller paintballs that are more accurate. Markers that arnt bigger than your head. I dont know. I want to see a paint chaingun. That would be nifty

like this :dance:

[scrumpy]

Where is paintball going? I'm not sure but that raises another interesting question - where is the human race going. We're coming to the end of the information age - what's next?
Discuss

[hardr0ck68]

This is a quote from Tom in responce to a symilar thread....i would love to see a marker like this:


Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconcieved notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun then this is what we could do NOW.

Run guns at much HIGHER pressures so you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact. This would lead to overall smaller guns with better efficiency.

Better efficiency means smaller tanks making the guns lighter and smaller overall.

Built in crono's that maintain your velocity at exactly what you set it to even when your tank starts running below your working pressure. This would mean that even though you we shooting a "high pressure" marker you would use it to the bottom of the tank. In order to do this you would have to have a fixed barrel but since everyone has to waist money on replacable barrels this thinking would have to change.

Trigger systems that would accomodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the fire power into the 30 BPS range.

Pre-load bolt systems that chamber the next round while you are firing the first elliminating ball feed lag.

Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....

Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators. Lets see, we can take off the tank reg, then the vert reg and oh yea the LPR too. You would have to be ready to put all those manufacturers out of business.

Very high speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy. The first ball would disrupt the air column and leave behind a turbulent wake. The turbulence would disrupt the laminar flow that leads to vortex shedding on the 2nd ball. Disrupt the vortex and improve the accuracy.

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.

And last but not lease an electronically timed, high pressure marker without regulators could plug into a laptop, test itself and tell you exactly what's wrong with it.

This is just one possible reality, most likely not to be part of any of your futures. Have fun with your pods.

AGD

[tae]

I completely agree with you Hardrock. The improvements will all be aimed at raising ammo cap., accuracy, fire rate, distance, size, weight, umm...spiff factor. Thats exactly what the military wants. East, effective firepower. But having a gun thats as close to a Death Star is going to put a different edge on the game. I realize that the point of this thread is to discuss what the technical improvements the sport can have in the future. So my point is that I am very new to all this, and I know that I dont know what Im talking about. But dose anyone agree that hoppers are for the Flintstones?

As for the chambering idea. Could someone tell me why the bolt fires into the ball. It seems that pressure would do all the work but is there some sort of stabilizing going on?

If the questions silly I apologize

[zorrotmm]

I completely agree with you Hardrock. The improvements will all be aimed at raising ammo cap., accuracy, fire rate, distance, size, weight, umm...spiff factor. Thats exactly what the military wants. East, effective firepower. But having a gun thats as close to a Death Star is going to put a different edge on the game. I realize that the point of this thread is to discuss what the technical improvements the sport can have in the future. So my point is that I am very new to all this, and I know that I dont know what Im talking about. But dose anyone agree that hoppers are for the Flintstones?

As for the chambering idea. Could someone tell me why the bolt fires into the ball. It seems that pressure would do all the work but is there some sort of stabilizing going on?

If the questions silly I apologize

Actually, it's not silly. I've often wondered why someone hasn't come out with a design that doesn't include a bolt. But then I found out someone DID. Just saw this the other day. If I ever have 400 bucks I don't know what to do with I'm going to buy one of these just to see how they shoot:

Epic (http://www.icepaintball.com/products.htm)

[codeman35]

I just bought a naughty dog freestyle fs-7. All this talk about new guns and loaders and stuff is scaring me. I hope i didn't just waist my money. :confused:

[Will Wood]

You did *NOT* just spell waste, waist, did you?
*Bangs head on desk*

[hardr0ck68]

so since you asked if you "waist"ed your money, may i ask, because i truly dont know; what makes a naughty dogs freestyle better than a factory freestyle? I know thay cost more, and look different, but is that it?

BTW my last post was a quote from Tom Kaye on an older thread....same topic tho.

[tae]

Yeah I reread what I did and that dose seem to confuse things. But Mr. ADG and you are right. There is the technology but no one will build it. I finally say a hopper that gives me hope

http://www.specialopspaintball.com/articles/specops_longbow.asp

I want to know if I can fit it on me 68. Argh!

[AKBAR]

You did *NOT* just spell waste, waist, did you?
*Bangs head on desk*

LoL. Speaking of the future of humanity...

[phantomhitman]

OMGWTFBBQ!!1TWO!


/DMC?

dmc uses titanium, but i do not know about carbon fiber.

I believe in the next 10 years the game will change again. There will be a new format that does of 2 things
1-mixes woods-tourney together somehow. Problem is that woods is too long while tourney is too fast. You could have a short time limit to complete some scenario event or just setup a tourney type game on a scenario field.
2-uses the current tourney scene layout but changes the rules considerably.



People will get bored playing the same game over and over, something has to change. The refs definatly need to be upgraded (I understand they do the best they can, but it can be way better) and need be a seperate entity altogether. There needs to be some sort of instant replay to stop the ignorant run thrus now, where a coach could throw a flag (like the nfl uses now) and the refs would take a look at the replay and hand out penaltys. There would only be 2-3 times you can use the flag though just like the nfl. It owuld help stop some people from cheating but not overkill. Xball will hopefully continue to have a great future, I love to watch it now.

[TheTramp]

When this tech is perfected there'll be some changes:

http://www.nationalpaintball.com/pdfs/pressreleases/eVolt.pdf

[FSU_Paintball]

so since you asked if you "waist"ed your money, may i ask, because i truly dont know; what makes a naughty dogs freestyle better than a factory freestyle? I know thay cost more, and look different, but is that it?

First off, I'm only referring to the FS7 because that's what you should buy... ignore older freestyles unless you are trying to save a lot of money.

Milling and a NOX board. That's the difference. If you buy it direct from Rocky I think he also includes a clamping feed neck and a CP barrel. Aside from that they are the same.

And I think eVolt technology will change things.

[hardr0ck68]

so does that naughty dogs fs7 lmnop freestyle help you? are you a better player now? has Rocky called you and asked you to step on for one of the 'dogs?

or did you just waist your money on a gun of the moment?

[Magman99]

Is it just more, or does it seem Paintball is coming to a platue pretty soon, if it isn't already on it? Any improvements are minor in new generations. Pretty much all the high end markers are going to perform the same. It all comes down to preferences.

So now isn't it all about who's got to size and weight. Which is pretty much the developements we've been seing.
So performance is basically topped off IMO, it's going to be harder to get any lighter. What's next for paintball?
Looks and Price is all I can say..
/Randomness.
Whatcha all think? Am I tottaly wrong and things are going to improve, or is the technology going nowhere (minus the possibility of changing over to electro instead of air)


I think we should forget technology and..............PLAY STOCK.........its so much more fun..... :shooting:

[NewMagMan21]

here here...I play stock all the time...especially now that Im between semi markers

[Magman99]

here here...I play stock all the time...especially now that Im between semi markers




cool dude :hail: I'm in the process of starting a small paintball buisness devoted to stock/ pump play... is there anything that you think (not involving guns) stockers/pumpers should have? If so let me know and ill talk to my buds about it....





:cheers: -Pump players out there
:cheers: MAG USERS!

[NewMagMan21]

I'll just PM you just to keep this thread pure...(or as much possible now)

[sicone]

My idea is to make scenerio tournament game as above like a speedball protect the prez.
myy second idea is to ad honor use only tru semi modes no full auto and as for ramping and cheaterboards throw them in the garbage i'll take my 13 bps spyder image or mag and stomp your ramping dm4 into the ground like the piece of dirt it is. Anyone who ramps wipes,or cheats needs a nice torture session on the medevil rack!!!!!!!!!


:cheers: to the stock guys for your honor im seriously conteplating buying a mag pump kit

[NewMagMan21]

as much as I agree with that statement, its not smart to say things like that...people are very edgy on the ramp/ not ramp issue

[coofoo777]

I think the people who are kinda geting ticked off by the auto and ramping markers(like me) are gonna start playin good old stock class.

yes, good old stock class saves you paint and focuses on the main part of paintball, TALENT!!!!!! :clap:

[Magman99]

I think the people who are kinda geting ticked off by the auto and ramping markers(like me) are gonna start playin good old stock class.

yes, good old stock class saves you paint and focuses on the main part of paintball, TALENT!!!!!! :clap:


Yea exactly! :hail:

Over the past year i've come to realize there is nothing more fun than a stock tournament (Im saving up to go to Pan Am) I've actually attempted to play in a "beginner tournament" with my phantom but it turned out to be a bunch of cheating ***-holes with dm4/5's and shockers who were using ramping and they were wiping, just an overall horrible experiance...

[NewMagMan21]

Well you guys, Im not gonna argue your points but maybe you should make a thread for this somewhere else, In fact I'll do it
For you Stockers come to "Stock discussions" to rant ;)

[Beemer]

Governing Body

__________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[M98Punk]

IDK what Tom's talking about... I WANT MY BACK PACK HOPPER NOW!!!! Well atleast untill I get it caught on something and 2000 paintballs go rolling all over the ground. Seriously thou I think that AGD should have a vault and in that vault they place all but 30 of any new stuff they invent (the 30 being sold to AO members who will love them while the general public hates them) and every 10 years the vault will open up and people will ooooh and ahhhh about the cool new stuff from AGD that they thought was silly crap ten years earlier.

[GoblinGreen]

I would really love to see some sort of Camera system that fits straight onto JT or DYE goggle system just like the X-wind setup.

Nice little camera with a proper pretection just under the peak. then they can run some wiring to a little hard drive kinda thinga on your back. that would be awesome.

All the videos Ive seen of cameras mounted to guns and they shake like hell, so they would have to have some sorta stabalizing idea as well. my 2 cents