CPS/BPS Mechanical Cap/Limit

[Pha|anx]

Just looking for some simple facts. To counter the "OMG my l33t DM4 shot 35bps on uncapped ramping today! AGG ain it?".

All I am looking is unbiased max FULL cyclic rate, meaning a ball can be fired with each cycle; MFCR. Those markers whose MFCR can be changed by increase input pressure, please state the input pressure for your test. For example AGD X-Valves. I put to gether a list of markers... If I missed any important ones feel free to post there info.


*E-Matrix/DM3/DM4/DM5/PM5
Capped by the solenoid at 23-25

*Ion
*Shocker
*Impulse

*04 Viking (Humphrey) 34 - 48
*04 Excalibur (Humphrey) 25 - 30

*E/X-Mag (X-Valves only.) 25

*Intimidator Classic
*Intimidator Post-Classic

*E1 Cockers
*E2 Cockers

*Ego
*B2K4
*Promaster 2k5
*FS 05
*FS7

*05 Speed
*Angel G7
*A4 Fly

If I confused the heck out of anyone, let me know and I'll try to clear it up.

[onedude36]

I heard from a very reliable source, a friend of a friend of a friend, that dm4s can only cycle 23 or so. I would assume similar numbers for the whole matrix family. I not really all that knowledgable in this area.

[Pha|anx]

I will be editing the list with the actually #s for each marker. Also, if anyone knows the part the mechanicaly caps/bottlenecks the specific marker; that information would be much appreciated!


I heard from a very reliable source, a friend of a friend of a friend, that dm4s can only cycle 23 or so. I would assume similar numbers for the whole matrix family. I not really all that knowledgable in this area.
That's sounds right. Someone had told me that specific # before, just wanted to make sure. The dump chamber is what limits DM4s, correct?

[MadPSIence]

04 Viking hit 34bps.

[minimag03]

04 Viking w/ hump noids can do 40 cps (according to AKA's website). I believe reliable people in AKA forum have said they got something like 48 cps.

Excal w/hump noids can do 25 cps (according to AKA's website). Like mentioned about, some have claimed about 30 cps.

[NukeGoose]

I don't know of anyone that's tested any gun for max firing rate, as in verified that there would be enough air coming out to fire a ball at 300 FPS with each cycle. Even if you're cycling the solenoid at 45 cyc/sec, and the bolt is moving back and forth at 45 cyc/sec, there's no guarantee that enough air is getting through the valve to fire 45 times per second. Anything more than 'I've verified gun X shooting Y bps with paint without shootdown' is just speculation as to whether it will actually fire paint, and the shootdown can come from a number of factors (tank, HPR, LPR, ...) that aren't part of the design of the gun's operation (the exception here being a mag, since the regulator is an integral part of the valve).

[MadPSIence]

ANS GX-E with E-1 was posted on PBN hitting 22cps today. That could be the E1 figure.

[onedude36]

04 Viking hit 34bps.

no. the viking did 31 and the mag did 34.

[cledford]

Two things - again, without shooting paint or verifying that the correct volumn of air (that would be required to fire a paint ball) is coming out CPS is a waste of time.

Now, for the E/Xmags - I heard about 22 max. Actually I think the software limited a few bps to allow for correct sear/bolt lockup. I *think* if Mags shoot faster than the 20 you get bolt wear and incomplete cycling. Want I *heard* (someone please jump in om this) is that the Mag has a fixed cycle time that is tied to the time required for the bolt to move forward, backward and lock, along the on/off pin to drop and refill the dump chamber.

-Calvin

[stop whining buy a mag]

I believe the 'noid was having trouble past 22 BPS so that was another downfall of 4.XX software. There was no point in it if you could only get another 2 BPS.

Correct me if I'm wrong but for the DM's, PM's, and E-Matrices, they are basically limited by the 'noid. Supposedly the 'noid can only cycle 22 times reliably in a second. But there were claims of a few guns getting to 26 BPS (probably tuned well, in perfect conditions.)

[Maggot6]

Are all of these guns supposed to be electric? Because we should all know that the e/xmags are quite faster in mech mode...And on your list I don't think I saw anything mechanical...

[buzzboy]

no. the viking did 31 and the mag did 34.
That is bps. I'm pretty sure the cps was highet.

[Chronobreak]

dm's/matrix 22-23
mag -34bps actual(althoguh i heard 44 cps somewhere..)
cocker, 35 actual ,i heard they can do around 40 with the right parts and 4-way(karni)
and aka guns doing around 30 as well, depending on noid as stated above

[MonsterMag]

2k5 Alias ,Capable of firing 25 BPS
claimed on on www.boblong.com

[magman007]

any matrix is limited by the noid, which is only capable of 23-25 cps, possibly more with a lowering of the dwell, but not likely. it is the weak point in the matrix. the spoolvalve has the capability to be the fastest firing system

[Pha|anx]

I don't know of anyone that's tested any gun for max firing rate, as in verified that there would be enough air coming out to fire a ball at 300 FPS with each cycle. Even if you're cycling the solenoid at 45 cyc/sec, and the bolt is moving back and forth at 45 cyc/sec, there's no guarantee that enough air is getting through the valve to fire 45 times per second. Anything more than 'I've verified gun X shooting Y bps with paint without shootdown' is just speculation as to whether it will actually fire paint, and the shootdown can come from a number of factors (tank, HPR, LPR, ...) that aren't part of the design of the gun's operation (the exception here being a mag, since the regulator is an integral part of the valve).


Two things - again, without shooting paint or verifying that the correct volumn of air (that would be required to fire a paint ball) is coming out CPS is a waste of time.
Exactly. So am I just confusing myself with CPS, when all I am really looking for is BPS? Just to clarify I am looking for the MAXIMIUM FULL CYCLIC RATE firing a 68cal at 300 fps.

Thanks to everyone so far! :cheers:

[TheTramp]

You've just hit the nail on the head.

Basicly no gun can shoot paint (300fps) at it's max cycle rate. The 40 something for the Viking! Yah right! Most tank regs can't even keep up with that let alone the gun's much larger valving system. I'm not saying they are slow it's just the most crazy number up there.

Even going by the limited value of videos (doesn't show real fps) mid 20's is it except for X-Valve with crazy input.

[GT]

Just looking for some simple facts

Who has the fastest fingers? I know noone can touch 30 cps without "coded" help.

[Lohman446]

Who has the fastest fingers? I know noone can touch 30 cps without "coded" help.


http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175620

Agreed

[Counterfeit_Syn5304]

timmys will be the same cycle rate due to the same use of solenoid. Unless you are couting the classic solenoids....those couldn't cycle as fast as the newer ones....and then there is the new style alias solenoids which run on a lower pressures and Im not sure but I think its faster then the normal solenoids....

[punkncat]

DM 3's best with the gun 20 stock chip is 22BPS.

The 03 Angel Speed was advertized at 32 BPS.

E cockers aren't so much limited by the board as they are the setup/marker itself. I haven't got any facts but I believe the E1 runs up to 18BPS. Mine with the Nexus ram and QEV's equipped with the ZeroB has no problems shooting the 15BPS PSP mode....I have had it bounce at 18BPS and thats as high as I have had it so far. I have seen a Karni read that it was doing 22BPS.

My friends Freestyle will cycle well past 40BPS, and will shoot paint over 25 provided you can feed it that fast.

[Skoad]

Your reason for making the thread is exactly what the thread will become. Noone knows and I doubt even the manufacturers tested their guns for a max cycle rates (give or take a few, AGD).

How are you supposed to tell if your gun is doing full cycles with full amount of air? Sound tests don't prove it.

[ojhspyro89]

A B2k4 can do 23 bps/cps.

On my Gen 2 no he i got 23 shooting paint. I have a sound analysis also.

[Pha|anx]

Are all of these guns supposed to be electric? Because we should all know that the e/xmags are quite faster in mech mode...And on your list I don't think I saw anything mechanical...
Very true-- Yet we all now how this is accomplished, bounce. Which happens to not be tourny legal.


Who has the fastest fingers? I know noone can touch 30 cps without "coded" help.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175620

Agreed
Very true but, I am not looking to be NPPL/PSP legal. And personally I doubt I can do better the 12 BPS, at a steady rate, on my X-Mag. I am getting better though... I think-- The main reason for gathering this info, besides the fact that it will be help to have, is to discredit my teammate's claim that his Proto on UNCAPPED NXL is just as fast if not faster then my Viking with the same settings. :spit_take

Thanks again to everyone! Keep the data flowing.