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View Full Version : Theory of operation question - Classic Valve


Coralis
10-05-2005, 11:35 PM
First let me preface this by saying I have no intention of doing this, I'm just asking out of curiousity.

My question is could the regulator pin be pulled out of the Classic valve and the velocity be controlled by using an adustable regulator ( ie like a Max flow )? I understand that regulator would have to adjusted down to a farily low pressure. Mainly I was just curious.
CaliMagFan
10-05-2005, 11:58 PM
someone did it... milled a new back to the valve and passed the regulated air thru it into the valve... cant remember how to get back to the post, but look around, its here somewhere.
athomas
10-06-2005, 09:58 AM
Yes, it could be done.
gulf
10-06-2005, 11:41 AM
why would you do this.
For a better regulation of air?
I like experimenting I'm just trying to understand why.

IF I understand you could just pull the guts out and put a threaded insert where you adjust the velocity from the rear. That would make for a good test?
athomas
10-06-2005, 06:42 PM
AIR valves are great regulators. Some change stuff just because they can.

To bypass the AIR regulator, all you need to do is remove the regulator pin and the regulator seat oring. You don't need to change anything on the valve. The air will then flow freely from the inlet to the on-off pin.
tae
10-06-2005, 06:53 PM
Would this be an effort to reduce the recharge rate?
Coralis
10-09-2005, 05:28 PM
Yes I was just wondering if the recharge rate would be better, but mainly I was just asking out of curiousity
athomas
10-09-2005, 07:34 PM
The recharge rate wouldn't be any better with a different regulator. One of the restrictions in the AIR valve is the on-off pin. You may be bypassing the regulator but you are still using the on-off pin.
tae
10-09-2005, 07:53 PM
If the idea is to use a dif. reg. that has a better recharge right? So the on off pin just keeps regulated air from the bolt and pt. I think a faster reg would do what you think(just like the rt and x) but I dont know what the actual drawbacks would be. Im pretty sure that the on/off only turns stuff on and off. Not really regualting.

Wheres a airsmith?
tae
10-09-2005, 07:54 PM
The recharge rate wouldn't be any better with a different regulator. One of the restrictions in the AIR valve is the on-off pin. You may be bypassing the regulator but you are still using the on-off pin.

I think my dork bum just got it. sorta... The on off is a bottleneck of somekind but what? how?
athomas
10-09-2005, 08:40 PM
On all mag valves, the air pushes the pin down and lets air pass. The restriction is the air pressure pushing past the circumference of the pin between the top of the pin and the inner edge of the oring. It restricts like a regulator without actually regulating. The AIR valve applies regulated pressure to the top of the on-off pin. You can change the regulator on an AIR valve but you can't get rid of the on-off restriction. You can't change the regulator on the retro valve due to the way the pressure is fed back into the reg. Due to that, the on-off restriction isn't as big a factor in the xvalve/retro valver. The retro valves allow unregulated input pressure directly into the front chamber. This higher pressure exerts more force on the top of the on-off pin and allows a faster recharge rate because the restriction has less of an effect on the air flow. The air in the chamber is fed back into the regulator to shut off the regulator flow once the chamber pressure has reached the set regulated value.
tae
10-10-2005, 02:09 AM
ah ha. I had thought the old reg on the classic was the reason for slow recharge.

Thanks athomas
sniper1rfa
10-11-2005, 12:13 PM
The recharge rate wouldn't be any better with a different regulator. One of the restrictions in the AIR valve is the on-off pin. You may be bypassing the regulator but you are still using the on-off pin.

You sir are totally wrong.

;)

I know, i've done it.

My micro has the same valve cap NiCad's did before he made an aluminum version. Using a vigilante the valve does actually recharge a little faster. Not a whole lot faster, but its measureable.

The valve, if i hammer a tank through the gun, gets fairly hot.

EDIT: The retro valve does focus the input on the top of the on/off, but that is a result of the reg design, not a part of the design itself.

The reason the retro is so fast is because of where the reg pin samples the pressure it is supposed to be regulating to. Rather than sample directly after the reg seat, the retro samples effectively at the valve, which makes for a more accurate and direct sample, which means it stays further open for longer.
athomas
10-11-2005, 06:59 PM
I kknow, i've done it.

My micro has the same valve cap NiCad's did before he made an aluminum version. Using a vigilante the valve does actually recharge a little faster. Not a whole lot faster, but its measureable.

The valve, if i hammer a tank through the gun, gets fairly hot.

Is your micro one of the AIR valves with the drilled back or one with the mismatched holes from front to back. The older AIR valves didn't recharge as quickly as the newer ones.

Interesting that your regulator charged faster than the AIR valve. I guess there are faster charging regulators than the AIR valve. I suppose .... it was only rated at 16bps, which was fast for its time.
sniper1rfa
10-11-2005, 07:52 PM
I don't really know what you mean...

It doesnt need an 8-hole mod, if thats what you're talking about. Its new enough to be milled so that it doesnt need anything like that.
athomas
10-12-2005, 06:21 AM
No, some of the valves had holes that didn't line up. I accidently left some things out of my explaination. Oops. :tard: That's why the 8 hole mod was made. Valves with factory holes that lined up didn't need it.

For the mod that you guys are talking about, all you need is your cap on the back or just remove the reg seat oring and the reg pin. There will be no restriction at all except the on-off pin.
tae
10-12-2005, 12:26 PM
:confused: Well Im lost. I need to find a Mag wizard so I can learn. Anyone near Portland, Or?