xvalve mystery...

[Langjai147]

ok so i just recieved my xvalve in the mail today...it was pretty stoked hearing everyone saying good things about it...so i installed it along with the ULE trigger kit, put it in the body, gassed it up...and it went fully auto when i pressed the trigger...i pressed the trigger about 3 times then the bolt stuck, or i assumed something stuck cuz when i pressed the trigger nothing happend...i took the valve off and tried everything...adding spacer size, adding shims etc...nothing cured it...i then decided to put the valve on the old body, rail, and trigger frame,..gassed it up and it did what it was suppose to do...

this totally puzzled me i couldnt understand y it worked on my old stuff but not my new...i currently have a rpg splinter rail, ule left side warp body, and intelli frame...shouldn't this work? it worked in the beginning...something is sticking...but i dont know what...please i need some serious help...im pretty sure spacers and shims have nothing to do with this...something is blocking the sear from allowing the on/off pin to completely be in position when it is gassed up..

[wanna-b-ballin']

could it be the body?

when i modded my minimag body to fit my RTP rail, the hole for the on/off wasn't lined up right. i filed it a little, and then the sear was able to push the pin all the way.

could that be it?

[Langjai147]

when i looked at the alignment of the body and the trigger sear it seems to be aligned just fine, but there is no way in knowing if the on/off is aligned to the sear through the body...i have tried installing the valve to the body and rail with out the trigger frame...i gassed it up while holding down the sear and it seems to function properly...i suppose i COULD file down the hole to make it bigger so it can hit the on/off properly...would it work if i just drilled a bigger whole?

what if this does not fix the problem what then?...any more suggestions?...i have used the classic automag valve on the ule body and rpg rail with intelli frame and it shot fine...could the problem be something other than the sear not being aligned with the on/off pin? i dont wanna drill or file anything that i dont need to...

[sol tank]

is one of the frame screws in to far or not enough?

also, how many shims in teh ULT?

[Langjai147]

i have tried 1 shim, 2 shims, even 3!! same result...tried to tighten the frame screw tight and loose either way it doesnt work...anymore ideas?...cuz im all out

[athomas]

First, adjust your level 10 to slide with minimal restriction. Don't use any shims. Then remove all shims from your ULT. Start adding ULT shims until it fires correctly and consistently.

There may be differences in on-off distances between your two setups. That is why your valve works in one but not the other. Once you get your ULT tuned to the proper distance, it should work in your new setup as well.

[Langjai147]

should i tune the bolt on my old body, rail and frame? since it doesnt even move on the new set up? when the valve is in the new body. rail and frame it can be gassed up with no leaks the sear kicks the trigger like it is ready to be fired but once i pull the trigger nothing happens, i tried pushing in the bolt because i assumed the bolt was sticking but i was pressing really hard and it didnt budge. even turned off the gass to do this and it didnt budge so i dont think it was a bold stick...my thumbs hurt from unscrewing the screws so much..LOL im not giving up on this...ive tried disassembling the whole valve, oiling it, turning the velocity up, still nothing...

how do i tune the ULT if it doesnt fire in my new set up? i have added up to 3 shims should i add more?

what puzzles me is when i FIRST gassed it up it fired auto for bout 3 trigger pulls then it just didnt work anymore after that until it put it on the old set up...

[93civiccpe]

Hmm... by hand slide the valve into the body and look and see if it looks like the on/off pin can come down freely through that hole.

Something did just catch my eye though.. are you using the same sear on each setup and the same triggerframe?? I'm not sure if you are using the same on each, but from reading the above it appears you might be using different triggerframes. If so, the sear might need to be adjusted for the newer trigger frame. Try this. When the gun is all the way gassed up, put your finger in the breach and push back on the bolt an see if it clicks and "catches" on the sear. also, if pulling the trigger isn't working, try putting something inbetween the back of the trigger and the pin, and then pull the trigger so that it pushes the pin back further. If this works, then either you are using a new sear with the new setup that hasn't been adjusted yet, or else your old trigger frame required the pin to be set further back so you just need to unscrew it a little more for this frame. This is just one of the many minor problems I've seen while working on people's mags.. maybe this is what's happening to you.
Please let us know if anything has helped and how you are able to resolve this!

[Langjai147]

i assumed the same thing last night, i used to different sear set ups on from the old mag and the other is from the new one, i tried extending the rod of the sear by unscrewing it...that didnt seem to work, then i tried shortening it, that didnt work either...

now im thinking maybe the bolt ISN'T catching the front of the sear, maybe im not manually pressing the bolt back hard enough...do i need to press it down pretty hard? and i do this when it is gassed up right?

[93civiccpe]

when it's gassed up you really shouldn't have to push it back hard at all until you hear the click. I would be careful with that though.. even though lvl-10 can be soft when tuned, if it were to fire with your finger in the chamber you could hurt your finger pretty bad if it isn't tuned.

My guess is that your culprit lies within the ult. The on/off pin isn't sitting low enough for you to push it all the way in probably. try removing all of the ult shims (not the lvl-10 shims) and try shooting it. Keep adding shims if necessary until it shoots consistently. Then you will have to worry about tuning lvl-10. Also, another problem you may be having is that the ult shims and lvl-10 shims look the exact same, but they are different thicknesses. I can't remember how it goes but it's either one ult shim equals two lvl-10 shims or the other way around. In any case, if you are using shims that are twice the size, then you could really be adding too much space and making the on/off pin sit too high causing your problem. Also, you should be lubricating that on/off with some sort of paintball oil/lube as well. I usually hit it with a few drops in there if I haven't played mine for a while. Try taking out all the shims, lubing it up good, putting it in, and make sure you just make the body and rear screws hand tight, not over tightened, and let us know what happens.

[93civiccpe]

and just a shot in the dark, you are using the correct sear for that rail aren't you?? I know the old RT or RTPro rails needed a different sear than the classic AM/MM rails. I have no idea about the splinter rail as far as which sear it needs. If you have the wrong sized sear I'm not even sure if it will fit. I have never had this problem but I just was thinking about the fact that there are 2 different sized sears. I have used a bunch of rogue's products and have been very happy with them, but I've never had one of his splinter rails.. yet. Anyways, someone else can also add insight as to whether or not this may be an issue.

[Langjai147]

i feel like im all out of ideas, everything everyone is saying is great, but the problem is that i have tried everything, or so i think i am...maybe i am doing something wrong while tinkering with it...when i get home from work ill start over again...ill start with no shims and work my way up from there...

i agree that the on/off pin is not being allowed to be released all the way...do i fix this by adding shims?

hmm i dont think i can tell the shims apart...looks like it is trial and error for me

[Langjai147]

im using an RT PRO sear in the rail, should i be using an RT sear instead? and do you think the axle pin matters if i use the same RT PRO sear for an RT?

[93civiccpe]

umm.. if you put them side by side on a counter and look you should be able to see if one is taller if you look closely... but yes, they are small. Anyways, what area do you live?? Maybe you will get lucky and find out you live close to one of the techie guys on here who can give you a hand in person. Let us know how your dealings go tonight. It is working with one frame but not another, it just leads me to believe that something isn't lining up right, whether the hole needs to be filed a little or whether the pin isn't far enough down and the ult needs to be adjusted. Anyways, please let us know how it goes and what you find. hopefully it's just something simple like you were using the wrong sized shims so instead of putting 3 in you were putting the equivalent of 6 in, or only 1.5 in depending on which ones you were using.

[93civiccpe]

Hey,
this is the easiest way I can tell you. I don't know which sear that rail should use, but I believe the pin is the same (I'm almost sure but someone jump in if I'm incorrect). Anyways, here's what you do. Put the body on the rail and put the screw up into it just to hold it in place, without the triggerframe. Leave the triggerframe off. Then put the valve in the back and put the back fieldstrip screw in to hold it in place. Now look from the bottom and look at where the sear is hitting. It should be obvious if it's the wrong sear because it won't be hitting the on/off button. Use whichever sear is correct. You may also be able to see if the sear is binding on the body and if the hole needs to be widened.

[Langjai147]

i live in southern california in a city called corona its JUST outside of orange county in the inland empire...any techies here?

[93civiccpe]

unfortunately I live on the other coast (in Virginia) but I know someone has to be that way who can help you. If not, I just found out that the shims in the ult are the skinnier ones. Anyways, I would first put the valve in the body and see if it appears that button is binding up. I'd also check on making sure the sear is hitting where it is supposed to. Unfortunately I don't think that it is one of these problems after re-reading some of your posts.

If you were able to get the classic valve to work and not the x-valve in the same body & rail & trigger, it might be a binding issue, but it leads me to believe it's just the ULT. pull out the ULT. Unscrew it and take all the shims out. The fewer shims the longer the pin. Anyways, verify that these are the skinnier shims. Put it back together (and lubricate) with no shims in it. Air it up and see if it will fire now. If so, then go back and add 1 of the skinny shims and put it back together & etc and try again. Keep adding shims until it goes into runaway (fires automatically). When you add a shim and it makes it go automatic, take that shim out and you should be set. You can find more details and see if any of the answers to problems in this ULT sticky thread help:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=96538

[LoveMyMagMoreThanYou]

unfortunately I live on the other coast (in Virginia) but I know someone has to be that way who can help you. If not, I just found out that the shims in the ult are the skinnier ones. Anyways, I would first put the valve in the body and see if it appears that button is binding up. I'd also check on making sure the sear is hitting where it is supposed to. Unfortunately I don't think that it is one of these problems after re-reading some of your posts.

If you were able to get the classic valve to work and not the x-valve in the same body & rail & trigger, it might be a binding issue, but it leads me to believe it's just the ULT. pull out the ULT. Unscrew it and take all the shims out. The fewer shims the longer the pin. Anyways, verify that these are the skinnier shims. Put it back together (and lubricate) with no shims in it. Air it up and see if it will fire now. If so, then go back and add 1 of the skinny shims and put it back together & etc and try again. Keep adding shims until it goes into runaway (fires automatically). When you add a shim and it makes it go automatic, take that shim out and you should be set. You can find more details and see if any of the answers to problems in this ULT sticky thread help:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=96538
Have you tried taking out the ULT and running with a standard On/Off? That way you can tell if it is a problem with the ULT or the valve.

[BigEvil]

Just a stupid question, but how high of an input pressure are you running into the gun? You should keep 750 psi minimum to work the gun properly. If your tank is below this then get it filled and try again and see what happens.

Keep us updated.

[93civiccpe]

^^ Good advice... and another thing I just thought of.. if this is a brand new x-valve, you did turn the velocity up didn't you?? Both of my x-valves I got new came with the velocity set so low they wouldn't really cycle without turning up the velocity. If it is something that simple then that's funny.

[PumpPlayer]

Well, if the valve cycles perfectly in the othr body, rail and frame, then it's not the valve that is your problem. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you've not used the new body, rail and frame before on anything, have you?


It sounds to me like you didn't put a frame spacer into the rail. It's a little brass collar that holds the frame and rail in alignment. If you don't have one, 'mags go crazy.

The other possibility is that someone changed the length of the sear push pin. Make sure you have about 1 mm of space between the back of the trigger and the front of the pin when it's gassed up.

[Langjai147]

my tank is preset at 800, i turned the velocity all the way up as suggested...YES i did tinker with he sear pin...newbie mistake...now i need to fix that too hmm where can i pick up a frame spacer? my classic mag doesnt seem to have one and it works fine...also the new body worked fine when the old valve was in it...but i have a technician calling me after work tonight to help me out with it, hopefully we can set it back to working status...its stressing me out...someone beer me...LOL :cheers:

[Langjai147]

yea i need a "MAG doctor"

[93civiccpe]

I do believe we could call Rogue one of the many "Mag Doctors"... shoot, he's probably even a "Mag Surgeon"... =P

[Tunaman]

I do believe we could call Rogue one of the many "Mag Doctors"... shoot, he's probably even a "Mag Surgeon"... =PNah! He's neither. A proctologist maybe! HAH! ;) :D

[Langjai147]

im heading home in a few to work on this..i will keep everyone posted on how my mag is doing...

[athomas]

Each level 10 spacer is the same as 2 ULT spacers. It sounds like the ULT on-off pin is not coming out far enough to allow air flow into the front chamber. You can "shorten the on-off pin" by putting in more ULT shims. Keep adding shims until it fires or at least attempts to fire. Too many ULT shims and it will fire at least one shot and get bolt stick, so we know its not that problem. Another thing to consider is using the shortest bolt spring until you get it working. This reduces the operating pressure required to fire the mag and thus reduces one of the potential problems.

[Langjai147]

here is an update...after work i have been tuning this for the past hour...the tech still hasnt called yet...but i talked to him earlier today and he said i need at least 5 shims in the ULT...so i went home and added 5...i heard barrel leak!!! PROGRESS!! i pulled the trigger...and nothing...so i added 2 more shims 7 shims total...i forgot which carrier i added but when i did it went fully auto...i think now i just need to find the right combo...ive been getting barrel leak, and i can fire seldomly...im gettin a little more excited now...slowly but surely i will have this done!...more updates to come

[Langjai147]

woohoo!!! i got it fixed...it was fixed on thursday but i couldnt post it cuz the forums were down...the problem ended up being the combination of shims and carriers were all wrong...in my set up now i have 6 shims in the ult, 2 shims in the bolt along with the 0 carrier...im using the smallest spring as well. i went out yesterday and i shot bout 200 rounds to break it in i had 2 chops only cuz i short stroked the trigger...but it was totally consistant and im ready to go out and play...sean was the certified tech who helped me out and it took probably 30 min or less...if i have any more probs im definately going to him again...oh yeah and another thing y my gun was weird was cuz i messed with the sear assembly...i tweeked it back...and put some adhesive on it so it wont move and i was good to go...but bottom line...i got it tuned and im ready for action...whos coming with me?..hahaha :shooting: