Perfect Circle

[JoshK]

So I got into a conversation with a old timer about paintball, then AO, and then something by the name of "Perfect Circle".

This is what I got out of the conversation.

-The were rounder than any paintballs on the market.
-They could be filled with anything.
-They had indefinate storage periods.

And they were never released. That leads me to a question that has been eating away at me. Why wern't they ever released? People always talk about "Is paintball at a plateu(sp), or are there going to be any more major improvments?". Well wouldn't this be one of those major improvments? Couldn't this possibly be something that put AGD back on map?

So why?

Could some old timer, or (to my pleasure) TK himself answer this question for me?

Also when I researched it some more I found out about "Perfect Circle Paintballs Inc.". This company is based out of the same town as AGD, and the contact e-mail is to e-mail on AGD's site. They don't sell to paintballers so could this possibly be one of AGD's military type of contract endevours?

Looking for a few answers please.

-Josh

[Duck Hunt]

http://www.pcpaintball.com/index.html

Its one of Tom's companies I believe. 260 bucks for 1000 of them.

Stick with PMI.

Sean

[Lohman446]

TK determined, that for the normal paintball player there cost to advantage ratio did not make them worth it. The original theory was that they would fly straighter. TK lab tested it and found that the advantages were not what he had thought they would be. Rather than hyping them and selling them to us at a higher cost than other paintballs, he was honest about the error in theory that lead to there development. He did find other uses for them, stages, and pepperballs of course. Basically, great idea, but expensive to produce, and with only marginal (if any) benefits for use in paintball.

[JoshK]

I still think there are benefits though. And I think if enough people were interested people would buy them.

But then I guess there would have to be some hype involved and AGD isn't really into that.(besides that one article TK made on the Crown Point barrel that he ended up saying was a joke :p )

[Lohman446]

I still think there are benefits though. And I think if enough people were interested people would buy them.

But then I guess there would have to be some hype involved and AGD isn't really into that.(besides that one article TK made on the Crown Point barrel that he ended up saying was a joke :p )


Would you pay $100 a case for paint? And if the information above is true it would be much more than that. They are simply, from a cost to benefit side, not useable to how we play paintball (in general) today.

[BigEvil]

I thought that PC paintballs were made of PLASTIC, but im not sure.

[JoshK]

Would you pay $100 a case for paint? And if the information above is true it would be much more than that. They are simply, from a cost to benefit side, not useable to how we play paintball (in general) today.

More being made=cheaper prices?

[RingOfScale]

probably, but that involves people starting to buy them 1st, which requires the cheaper prices :P

they cant just all of a sudden make a million cases of em an expect em to fly off the shelves ...

[Lohman446]

More being made=cheaper prices?

I think as has been alluded to above they are made out of plastic, and do not lend themselves to as readily available of a manufacturing process as the gelatin encased balls we are shooting at each other. What we are currently using are basically tylenol gelcaps - there is a manufacturing process for them, equipment wise, not dependent on paintball. Well I think the cost could be brought down, I do not think it was feasable to bring them within a reasonable cost comparatively. All knowledge far removed from the source though, I could be wrong.

[JoshK]

Well thanks for you imput even if you are wrong. I appreciate it.

[Army]

Having a shell of polymer, they require much higher speeds in order to break. Perfect Circle makes Police/Military use balls: Pepper Spray, indelible dye marking, glass breaking, extreme scented, stinky balls, and water filled training. Gelatin shells would quickly soften and burst with some of these chemicals, making rough handling very hazardous.

[Steelrat]

Would you pay $100 a case for paint?

Welcome to 1994. How soon we forget ;)

[spacedtedybear]

Would you pay $100 a case for paint?
A lot of us here have. :D

[Cunha]

Yeah, ive payed 80 for a case of field paint.

If they marketed them as full tournament only super pricey i mean like 120 or even more dollar cases of paint that only the most serious players would want, for that extra competative edge, i think it could work, sorta. Looks like they have their own market pretty well secured as it is.

[Army]

But in '94, we got 2500 balls per case!

[Lohman446]

As nice as the historical perspective is though its not '94. Paint sold at $100 a case today (or more, I pulled that number out of nowhere and those who have posted above indicate a much higher price) is simply not competetive. Most tournamentst that are $80 a case are also FPO so the idea that you can compete with artifically inflated prices there is not that valid.

[Muzikman]

I know it's already been said but,

Perfect Circle is a daughter company of AGD.

They make plastic seamless paintballs for many applications.

They are expensive

But the big problem I personally see with using these over current paintballs is that the shells will never degrade. This means that the field will be litered with broken plastic shells and they will be there for quite some time.

[SCpoloRicker]

But in '94, we got 2500 balls per case!

I actually remember being upset that cases went to 2000 when I got back in a year or so ago. :)

[mag88888]

my local field still charges $75, thats not even for the really good stuff.

[scrumpy]

One of my local fields charges somewhere around $130 for whitebox cases. This is justified by their gracious free entry and rentals.

[BlackVCG]

Having a shell of polymer, they require much higher speeds in order to break.

Not really.

The XM 303 was designed to be shot at under 280fps. Granted, the projectile was almost double the mass and thus had a greater KE value, the polymer shell breaks consistently and with "ease."

The Sydarms were lucky to get above 280fps.

[rkjunior303]

A local field used to charge $130 for Rec-Sport cases.

[hitech]

The first time I met Tom he was attempting to market Perfect Circle paintballs. They had the advantages of shattering instead of collapsing like gelatin paintballs do. No more ring welts. They would hurt less than current paintballs. They also had no raised seam... Tom never did say that would make them more accurate, but we ALL assumed it would.

The reason that PC paintballs never made it to market is that the price of paint dropped right when Tom was trying to market them. He couldn't compete price wise. They also didn't turn out to be any more accurate. This is what Tom told me when I asked him why they never "made it".

:cheers:

[AGD]

PC paintballs actually broke easier than gelatin balls because they would "snap" and shatter. As an example you could shoot a flourecent light bulb and not break it. We used to do that all the time in police training to show the cops. Of course then Budd comes over one day and I tell him to shoot the light and it shatters and falls down....

When we started on the PCP project in 1989 paint was 5 cents a ball wholesale. We figured a more accurate ball would take over the market and at that price, we could make them. By the time we developed the process paint was half that and then they were not any more accurate. We had to go somewhere else so it was police and military.

We make millions of balls a year and you would faint at some of the prices. Its still not a super big business because the reality is there are very few customers for that type of product.

AGD

[Geoff Call]

A round projectile can only be so accurate anyhow, I think you've read your own tech tips Tom:)

Good to see you active.

Geoff Call
Paintball Charleston

[Army]

Tom, believe me when I state that the Police shoot Pepper balls at MUCH greater speeds:)

Black, the 303 balls don't need speed to break, as they have a weight of the Bismuth driving through the casing. But again...believe me, the Military fires them a MUCH greater speeds than what AGD tested at:D