tell me about vikings

[master_alexander]

i love my vert mag. but now i am opening my min to other guns, and i have heard good things about the vikings. only problem is, i dont know about them. i have been looking around in the AKA viking forum on PBN, and have learned a few things.. but not enough to know what to get.

and since i dont know what there is to know, tell me about it. pros and cons of vikings, comparison to other markers (id understand the best if you compred to mags) i also want to know how they pair up to a timmy, as that is my other option... so what do i need to know?

[punkncat]

You know this comparison thing turns into a bunch of people flexing their opinions with a worthless outcome....

Vikes have a reputation as an extemely reliable marker. They are fast( as most now are) and very smooth. If I had to compare a "feel" I would say it was much like an older Matrix in weight and feel. They are large and kinda towards heavy.

What is really important is what you think.

[BD_Paintball]

if i was you i would get a pm5 or dm4 over a viking. vikings are good but in my opinion AKA is just about dead and for the price you could get a nice proto for the price you would spend on a viking.

[r-unit]

vikings are like angels with tighter tolerances.

they are NOT heavy at all, just big. trust me on this one.

tadao board= insane.

very fast, very reliable, and if u get it DC'd, normal sized and hawt.

[68magOwner]

ok, ive got basically the options your concidering sitting in the next room (2k4 viking, lasoya timmy (actuall, an old infamous team gun, its nice), and Dm4, which somone mentioned) I personlly prefer the viking by far over the timmy or dm4. While, all markers are amazingly fast, the viking just performs better for me, as well as feels nicer in my hands. Weight, is close/negligable between the 3 markers. As far as performance, the DM4 and viking have about the same kick (none) with the timmy having slightly more, but, very little. Consistency, viking>rest, effecency, viking>rest, speed, all just stupid fast, and all have psp mode which is what i use anyway, all have tadao, which, rips heads off in any mode, so, i would say that just depends on which marker setup you prefer, i can shoot the viking fastest in semi myself, but, other people who have used them can shoot the timmy or dm4 faster, thats just up to how comfy the user is with the marker. The proto is also a nice option for around the same price, lighter than all 3 previously mentioned markers, and, shoots just as good. I dunno, i would really advise going out and using them yourself at the local field (the viking may be a bit tricke, but, should be hard to get a hold of a timmy or trix to use). If it were my choice, id take the viking, but, thats just what i prefer.

[master_alexander]

that was an excellent review :D annyone else?

[rkjunior303]

This should explain it all ;) This is my 03 DC Viking.

http://akaowners.org/upload/tadao_2.wmv
http://akaowners.org/upload/rk_tadao_vike.wmv

[MonsterMag]

pros
Tado is fast
Strong
Low maintance

Cons
Heavy 3lb
Top heavy (feels impy like)
Small trigger frame
Company is gone or going under

[electriceel125]

akaowners.org has a ton of info on anything aka. :headbang:

[onedude36]

I love the feel of sticky grips on the viking frames. I love my viking.

[Automaggot68]

This should explain it all ;) This is my 03 DC Viking.

http://akaowners.org/upload/tadao_2.wmv
http://akaowners.org/upload/rk_tadao_vike.wmv

That never gets old.

[rkjunior303]

Cons
Heavy 3lb
Top heavy (feels impy like)
Small trigger frame
Company is gone or going under


I'd like to disprove these:

- A stock 04 Viking is not 3lbs. Milled, they are some of the lightest markers out
- Def not top heavy.
- Small trigger frame? WHAT? Definitely not.
- AKA is alive and kicking. They may not be able to make the Viking but they will always support their LIFETIME warranty. Not to mention, there are great companies like Destructive Customs and Gorilla Paintball doing their warranty work.

[scrumpy]

I would take a Viking (http://www.nordanlog.org/viking%20warrior.jpg) over a Timmy (http://www.maths.strath.ac.uk/~aap03102/img/timmy.jpg) any day of the week. The choice is clear.

[MonsterMag]

Your probally right
I have only used a viking 2 times and thats what i got out of it. You own one therfore you know. Sorry ;)

[atm743]

I'd like to disprove these:

- A stock 04 Viking is not 3lbs. Milled, they are some of the lightest markers out
- Def not top heavy.
- Small trigger frame? WHAT? Definitely not.
- AKA is alive and kicking. They may not be able to make the Viking but they will always support their LIFETIME warranty. Not to mention, there are great companies like Destructive Customs and Gorilla Paintball doing their warranty work.


im with you on this all the way.

the retarded thing is that I OWN A VIKING but someone monstermag knows everything about my viking from holding it and shooting it a cupple times :tard: :rolleyes:





now for my thoughts


GO BUY A VIKING NOW

i absolutly love mine. tadao is ungod like. its sooo fast and never chops.

i can get a case off one tank fill :)

only thing you need to do is oil probibly once and that will last like a month depending how much you play.

battery life on tadao is really really good.

vikings NEW cost only 725 with eyes and pandora and scm 3 on akalmp.com. which is really good for a NEW viking.


ooo yea i nkow your going to be asking this at some point

the difference from an 03 viking to a 04 is that stock 03's dont come with eyes (last batch of them did but most of them didnt) they are a pinch of a hair taller and longer, they dont come stock with an scm, the have wire nubbens for ball detents wich i hear ware out, and 03 dont have humphrey noids stock wich are needed for the older tadao boards. the new boards that work with excaliburs (i have one of the 50 made :P ) do work with the older noids (mac) that come in 03 vikings (unless sent into aka for an upgrade.)

[Jerzee201]

I think Timmys and Vikes/Excals both perform great, while both have pros and cons over each other, it comes down to overall preference. It's highly recommended you try both, then make your decision from there. Many like the feel of a Vike/Excal, many don't, and vice versa for Timmies... You cant go wrong with either choice.

If you get a Vike or Excal, EYES are a must, with any of the 3 boards, WAS, Pandora, or Tadao. And if you go the AKA route, choosing between Vike or Excal will be another obstacle. :p

cheers

[lather]

Choose what feels best to you--once you get to the higher end, its all preference. Vikings are really nice sure, but they are not by any means the godlike markers some make them out to be.

And no they are not built with tighter tolerances than angels.

[magman007]

This should explain it all ;) This is my 03 DC Viking.

http://akaowners.org/upload/tadao_2.wmv
http://akaowners.org/upload/rk_tadao_vike.wmv



hey rob, why dont you tell em which gun resides in your gear bag?




Also, for all of you saying the viking doesnt kick, you are on drugs. the hammer driven system can never be nearly as smoothe as a spoolvalve. now, my vik did have less kick than some of my other guns(sfl e-mag which i acquired by trading my first batch xmag, angel speed, my other mags, and even my cocker) but it will never kick less than my toxic trix, my dm4, my dm5, or my dmc, and most deffinitely not more than my soon to have dm6. THe spoolvalve just works, it is potentially the fastest system(one moving part) and is smoothe as butter. No kick minus the slight puff you recieve from the ball and gasses leaving the barrel.

Trixes also have better triggers than vikings in my whole opinion.

the viking just didnt live up to the hype in my mind. I bought an 04 featherlight, which was a beautiful, fast, and efficient gun, but it still shot like an angel, just with better tolerances and a little less kick. Try one out, or shoot an angel or a timmy, then shoot a trix, of any variance, and tell me which one you liked more.

[UTDragun]

Trixes also have better triggers than vikings in my whole opinion.
You must not have ever felt a good froth trigger.

[Automaggot68]

You must not have ever felt a good froth trigger.

You uh.
Dont want to get into an argument with Bill, dude.

[rkjunior303]

You uh.
Dont want to get into an argument with Bill, dude.


he's the dye posterboy. i think he has dave youngblood's signed dirty underwear or something in his gearbag..

[phantomhitman]

I would also recomend a proto or dm4, maybe even dm5 if the price falls. A stock viking is heavy compared to other higend markers, and if you like a good design then a stock viking will not suit you. I think they finally solved the detent bolt problem, and you need the newest board out there. I like vikings but trying to find a nice, working, aftermarket viking (dc, featherlite, etc) is hard to do. If you have shot it and liked it then go for it, but since the "pbn" kids are about to start dumping of protos and dms since the new line is coming out then I would look for one of those.

[rkjunior303]

For the record. I own a 03 DC Viking but I mainly shoot a DM4.

The DM4 is heavier than the Viking and with Tadao, the Viking is faster than the DM4. Efficiency sucks compared to my Viking, as well. I could go a whole day on 1 fill with the viking, and that's with me shooting close to 2 cases. DM4 efficiency, even with the top-hat mod is nowhere close.

I admit, I like the DM4's internal bolt but being able to QUICKLY field clean my VIking is a luxury that I miss. I personally actually prefer the 03 wire detent over the new 04 quad detents.

[TheTramp]

The DM4 is heavier than the Viking and with Tadao, the Viking is faster than the DM4. Efficiency sucks compared to my Viking, as well. I could go a whole day on 1 fill with the viking, and that's with me shooting close to 2 cases. DM4 efficiency, even with the top-hat mod is nowhere close.
.

If all that's true then why do you shoot the DM4? Slower, heavier, less efficent. There must be something good about it. :)

[rkjunior303]

If all that's true then why do you shoot the DM4? Slower, heavier, less efficent. There must be something good about it. :)


change of scenery?

the viking is my BABY. i don't want anything to happen to it, after dumping $800 in milling/anno into it. :)

[phantomhitman]

Oh, so you had to pay to get it MILLED and then have to pay to get reanoed before it was lighter than the dm4.......you forgot to mention that. They are fast and very very effecient.

[rkjunior303]

stock 04 weights the same as a dm4.

[dahoeb]

magman007,
the dm4 and the precious little spoolvalve is not the end all for paintball guns. if it was half as "superior" as you make it out to be, people would only buy that marker. i've owned an 04 viking and loved it. it was my favorite gun i ever shot as a matter of fact.

everyones got their own preferences.

[phantomhitman]

magman007,
the dm4 and the precious little spoolvalve is not the end all for paintball guns. if it was half as "superior" as you make it out to be, people would only buy that marker.
everyones got their own preferences.

You just answered everything surrounding paintball. There could be a gun that weighs 1 pound, shoots 60 bps, heat seaking barrel and special paintballs, rails for add equipment, come in any color you want, and run all day off of a 9 ounce tank and people would still say something bad about it. :cheers:

[MicroMiniMe]

You just answered everything surrounding paintball. There could be a gun that weighs 1 pound, shoots 60 bps, heat seaking barrel and special paintballs, rails for add equipment, come in any color you want, and run all day off of a 9 ounce tank and people would still say something bad about it. :cheers:

Yeah, the gripframe was too tight and it didn't balance well for me... And outshooting the Cheetah Halo broke paint.
/end fantasy world

AKA digs:.

No more Vikings or Excals (probably no electros either) will be made.
Lifetime warantee
Same as mag reliability and easy maintenence
'New' price for stock marker is rediculously affordable
Used price on custom milled/anodized is under a grand
Viking is slightly faster than Excal
Excal is smoother/less kick than Viking and a bit quiter report
Your not shooting the same marker as everyone else at your field

The main forces for the Viking and Excalibur at AKA left and started a new company to likely produce some electro markers. Watch for STD, they currently have LP regs out.

[Big'n slo]

Around the year 800 the Vikings began to travel from their homes in Scandanavia.... from the countries we now call Norway, Sweden & Denmark.

The Vikings were farmers.
When the farmer died the farm was passed to the oldest son in the family.

The Vikings had a lot of children! This meant that there were a lot of people which had to choose between being workers on their brother's farm or going over the seas in search of fame and fortune or new land.

Stories about how easy it was to get rich on such expeditions spread like wild fire over Scandinavia.

Let's go and discover America
"There's not enough room on the farm for all of us.

Let's sail westwards and discover some new land for ourselves... sharpen the swords."

So said the Vikings from Norway.
"We're not working for our brother", said the Vikings from Sweden.

"There's new land and riches to the east ... let's go and trade there ... it's a better way than fighting.."
We're off to Russia!

So the Scandanavian or Nordic people began to explore, trade, attack both to the east and the west. Some of them went a very long way.

arrgh

[dahoeb]

hahaha that was awesome

[68magOwner]

for the record- my viking DOES have LESS kick than my dm4, and, both weigh the same ammount but the viking is balanced better and therefore feels lighter.

[master_alexander]

well this thread is pack with some good info. and that was funny big n' slow.

but can a viking run off of a hp tank?

[Automaggot68]

well this thread is pack with some good info. and that was funny big n' slow.

but can a viking run off of a hp tank?

God damnit

[MicroMiniMe]

well this thread is pack with some good info. and that was funny big n' slow.

but can a viking run off of a hp tank?

As long as it has the stock Sidwinder you can run low or high pre set tanks.
Just don't mess with the LP/SCM

[Pha|anx]

Then only get 7 bps, chop like mad, are so stinking ugly...

Bolt has no orings = suck (Acording to Dye any bolt with less then a bijillion orings is ineffecent [sp?].)

[master_alexander]

i just talked with some of my friends and im shooting one on sunday. also a timmy and a dm4.

[scrumpy]

God damnit
Well said.

[joeschmo]

vikings have more jolt than a DM4 does. Dont know where that came from. What is your LPR setting on the DM?

And yes, vikings are kinda heavy, and boxy. They are wide too. They are definitely fast and shoot smooth for a poppet gun, but do not have less kick than any Matrix. Whoever says that is hyping up their viking, cause thats not true.

Viking Pro:

fast
efficient
consistent
low maintainance
warranty
not too common of a gun



Viking con:

kinda burly and heavy
not very attractive *unmilled*
a bit of kick *(not any more than any other electro poppet system, not unmanagable)
Need a tool kit to set LPR remove ram, etc
04s can have detent problems and chop w/ eyes on


and yes the grip frame is small which wasnt actually a problem. I thought it was very comforable. I liked mine a lot.

[Pha|anx]

Viking con:
kinda burly and heavy
not very attractive *unmilled*Personal preference period. Has some of the nicest milling jobs ever seen. :headbang:


a bit of kick *(not any more than any other electro poppet system, not unmanagable)I do notice some in my new one, but I expect to have to keep the LPR up pretty high while braking it in. You can lower it later on to 70ish psi after broken in.

Glad you liked yours. :clap:

[joeschmo]

lower your LPR now. I doubt you will see much a difference. They are shipped at a factory setting of 70 psi now I think. I know in the past that others say 80psi until broken in, but Id go ahead and drop it now. You can turn your dwell up a little to comensate if you have to. It will shoot a bit smoother w/ the lower setting. It wont be a HUGE difference in kick, but it will lower it a tiny bit. It will be somewhat quieter too.

I know someones gonna say......I had my LPR at 60psi and my dwell at 13ms, and it shoots smoother than a DM5...... :rolleyes: wrong. all I can say to that is hype. I dont know of any poppet that shoots as smooth as a spooler.

And youre right looks are opinion, it just tends to be a lot of paintballers that think the unmilled ones are not as desirable as milled ones.

[Pha|anx]

I know someones gonna say......I had my LPR at 60psi and my dwell at 13ms, and it shoots smoother than a DM5...... :rolleyes: wrong. all I can say to that is hype.I would have to agree 60psi seems low. I seem to remember a few people that ran their Viking in the mid 60s, give or take a few.


I dont know of any poppet that shoots as smooth as a spooler.Nor do I know of any spool that is as effecient as a poppet.


And youre right looks are opinion, it just tends to be a lot of paintballers that think the unmilled ones are not as desirable as milled ones.True but AKA can't do what was done with the Timmys, making a new custom body ever couple of months to please the crowd. So in my opinion they did the next best thing.. Left enough 'meat' on it making it possilbe to be custom milled, whether this was intentional or not I could't tell you.

[68magOwner]

....i have my lpr at 60 and dwell at 13, shoots smoother than teammates dm5.

:)

not kidding :)

(helps that he jacked his lpr up an attempt to gain effecny so he can play with a 45/45, but, none the less, its a poppet marker being smoother than a spooler, so, there ya go)

[onedude36]

magman007,
the dm4 and the precious little spoolvalve is not the end all for paintball guns. if it was half as "superior" as you make it out to be, people would only buy that marker. i've owned an 04 viking and loved it. it was my favorite gun i ever shot as a matter of fact.

everyones got their own preferences.


I totally agree with you. Oh wait, i bought your gun :clap:

My favorite marker definately.

matrixes in general feel lifeless to me. They dont move when I shoot, and that throws me off. I dont like it.

[rkjunior303]

matrixes in general feel lifeless to me. They dont move when I shoot, and that throws me off. I dont like it.


Try a Cyborg. I shot one for the first time over the weekend and you couldn't feel ANYTHING besides the bolt moving back and forth.

I would seriously look for a Cyborg -- Right now a stock 04 is the best deal in paintball.. Small, light, EFFICIENT, no kick and FAST.... Tadao makes a killer board for them.

[joeschmo]

I totally agree with you. Oh wait, i bought your gun :clap:

My favorite marker definately.

matrixes in general feel lifeless to me. They dont move when I shoot, and that throws me off. I dont like it.


thats why ppl like trixes, because its almost hard to tell youre even shooting them. And they are so quiet.

Its just preference guys w/ ANY high end gun. Everyone has their own like and feel of a gun. Nobody said that dye markers were the only guns worth buying and everything else cant compare. Again, its preference. Im just saying they are the smoothest shooting guns Ive ever shot. Including a viking w/ the LPR at 60 and the dwell at 13ms. When I did that to my viking it seemed to lob balls. And even w/ the LPR set correctly my viking seemed to curve downward more than other guns Ive shot. Everyone that I let shoot it noticed it too. That was the first thing out of their mouth. It was a consistent curve and easy to make it go where you want, but it did curve down. Read around the AKA forum on PBN, and others have said the same. The excal doesnt do it. I didnt like those settings, and it wasnt all that much smoother either. And I think the reason it felt smoother to you is because your friend jacked up his LPR on his DM. Mine LPR is at 2.5 turns, w/ an orange bolt, and a dwell of 14-15ms or so. No kick. Smoother than any poppet Ive ever shot, including a borg, viking, timmy, angel, excal, ego, and any other poppet system.

I agree though, poppets are more efficient, except some ppl claim about a case on a 68/4500 w/ an evolve bolt kit.

I get around 1400-1500 on my DM w/ orange bolt, 530 modded bolt guide, and tophat mod. And it shoots so much smoother than the viking Ive shot, and timmys, and borg.

out of the poppets that Ive shot, I liked the borg the best. Even over the viking. Its lighter, smaller, narrower, fast, efficient, etc. And the 06 borg looks better than the previous ones.

[rkjunior303]

I get around 1400-1500 on my DM w/ orange bolt, 530 modded bolt guide, and tophat mod. And it shoots so much smoother than the viking Ive shot, and timmys, and borg.

out of the poppets that Ive shot, I liked the borg the best. Even over the viking. Its lighter, smaller, narrower, fast, efficient, etc. And the 06 borg looks better than the previous ones.


here's where i disagree... i own a viking AND a DM4, and just recently shot an 04 Cyborg.. Completely stock, aside from a 2liter on it and Tadao for the board. This thing was smoother and had less kick than both of them. I liked it enough to consider picking one up once the 06's come out... The 04's (personally) look better (to me) and will be a STEAL once the new ones come out.

[joeschmo]

here's where i disagree... i own a viking AND a DM4, and just recently shot an 04 Cyborg.. Completely stock, aside from a 2liter on it and Tadao for the board. This thing was smoother and had less kick than both of them. I liked it enough to consider picking one up once the 06's come out... The 04's (personally) look better (to me) and will be a STEAL once the new ones come out.


Ive had a viking AND DM4 too. In fact, sold the viking after the DM4 cause I fell in love w/ the way it shoots.

what bolt do you have in your DM4? What LPR setting, What dwell? DMs shouldnt be kicking that much, unless something isnt set right. I recently switched to Dow 33 from using dye slick lube and it helped tremendously.

Ill bet if you shot my DM w/ orange bolt and other mods w/ my LPR that low, yould see what Im talking about. My LPR is prolly around 50 something psi, and the bolt is so much lighter that = less kick.

W/ the viking, you have the reciprocating mass of the ram, bolt. And you have a metal ram hitting a metal poppet valve which makes some noise. Those are the facts.

The viking has more jolt to it than the DM from higher reciprocating mass, higher LPR, and those are facts.

[Lohman446]

Ive had a viking AND DM4 too. In fact, sold the viking after the DM4 cause I fell in love w/ the way it shoots.

what bolt do you have in your DM4? What LPR setting, What dwell? DMs shouldnt be kicking that much, unless something isnt set right. I recently switched to Dow 33 from using dye slick lube and it helped tremendously.

Ill bet if you shot my DM w/ orange bolt and other mods w/ my LPR that low, yould see what Im talking about. My LPR is prolly around 50 something psi, and the bolt is so much lighter that = less kick.

W/ the viking, you have the reciprocating mass of the ram, bolt. And you have a metal ram hitting a metal poppet valve which makes some noise. Those are the facts.

The viking has more jolt to it than the DM from higher reciprocating mass, higher LPR, and those are facts.

Really? Not that I disagree but what is the reciprocating mass of the Viking and the spool valved markers? What is the LPR on the Viking he shot at in comparison to yours? Your conclusions may have some merit, but I question if they are based on accurate facts.

/Don't crucify me
//Owns a Matrix

[rkjunior303]

Ive had a viking AND DM4 too. In fact, sold the viking after the DM4 cause I fell in love w/ the way it shoots.

what bolt do you have in your DM4? What LPR setting, What dwell? DMs shouldnt be kicking that much, unless something isnt set right. I recently switched to Dow 33 from using dye slick lube and it helped tremendously.

Ill bet if you shot my DM w/ orange bolt and other mods w/ my LPR that low, yould see what Im talking about. My LPR is prolly around 50 something psi, and the bolt is so much lighter that = less kick.

W/ the viking, you have the reciprocating mass of the ram, bolt. And you have a metal ram hitting a metal poppet valve which makes some noise. Those are the facts.

The viking has more jolt to it than the DM from higher reciprocating mass, higher LPR, and those are facts.


my dm4 has definitely less kick than my viking, but keep in mind.. Mine is an 03, with a DC Volumizer so it does have less kick than an 04.... As for the DM4, I'm running at 15 or 16 dwell (i cant remember) and 3 1/2- 3 1/4 turns on the LPR (slick honey). Only think I have is the tape mod on the tophat..

BUT, we are talking about "stock" markers here.. Sure, with ALL that work, I bet you can get the DM4 to be smooth as butter .... The fact that this is a STOCK Cyborg is what really impressed me.

[joeschmo]

the reciprocating mass of the viking will be the bolt, bolt pin, hammer/ram, and ram shaft. The ram is stainless steel as is the ram shaft, and the bolt is delrin. The hammer alone weighs more than the bolt of a DM4, well, the orange bolt anyway. Even the stock bolt doesnt have hardly any kick. There is NO GUNS w/ NO KICK. ALL guns will have even a bit of kick. But its noticably less.

The reciprocating mass on a matrix is the bolt itself and thats it. The orange bolt weight is like .75 ounces or something like that. Its very light. And a bolt that light moving w/ an LPR setting of 50-55 or so psi will have less felt kick than a poppet style marker w/ a reciprocating mass of ? I dont know how much it is exactly, but the bolt alone is at least an ounce or more. Then add that to the weight of the hammer/ram/shaft. Thats your reciprocating mass. Then you have a LPR pressure of at least 60 (which I didnt like that setting) most are around 70-72psi. I had mine at 68 and it was not much different. COmparing it to a trix w/ a lighter bolt and a lower LPR pressure. I dont see how the viking could have less kick. When I shot my viking the barrel was moving around all over the place.

My viking was an O3 as well and I cut the back of the bolt off to lighten it up some, and it was still over an ounce. And I had the MM on mine too. The MM or DC volumizer does hardly squat for kick. At least none that has been proven. Thats what I gather from owning and shooting one w/o and with one, and from others personal testimony on PBN in the aka forum.

[Lohman446]

What about perceived kick, depending on how the Vike / Matrix in question balances. If I put a bull barrel on a paintball marker that alone is going to lessen the kick that most users "feel".

[joeschmo]

What about perceived kick, depending on how the Vike / Matrix in question balances. If I put a bull barrel on a paintball marker that alone is going to lessen the kick that most users "feel".

I havent noticed much a balance difference between the two markers in question here.

For what you do to one marker, you must do to the other if you are comparing kick between them. So if you compare a viking w/ a bull barrel on it, then the bull barrel must be put on the DM to check it. Dont slap a bull barrel on a viking and then an ultralite on the DM. I still dont think that would matter though.

on another note not mentioned earlier. What mods can you do to a viking to lower kick? None, other than cut the bolt back off. Cant even do that on the 04. What can you do to lower kick on the DM4? Orange bolt, evolve bolt, and any other bolt mods that dont really effect kick like the 530 mod, which is easy and free, and the tape, or tophat mod, that takes all of 10 seconds to do. Those mods arent extensive at all. The 530 just cuts off the two bars on the bolt guy allowing for better flow through the bolt and the tophat mod just decreases the volume of the dump chamber and is supposed to give better efficiency.

Thing is that these mods work against each other kinda. one decreases the volume of the dump chamber, and the other increases it. The mods are very simple and free to do. The orange bolt however is not free, but very simple to replace.

[Lohman446]

I havent noticed much a balance difference between the two markers in question here.

For what you do to one marker, you must do to the other if you are comparing kick between them. So if you compare a viking w/ a bull barrel on it, then the bull barrel must be put on the DM to check it. Dont slap a bull barrel on a viking and then an ultralite on the DM. I still dont think that would matter though.

on another note not mentioned earlier. What mods can you do to a viking to lower kick? None, other than cut the bolt back off. Cant even do that on the 04. What can you do to lower kick on the DM4? Orange bolt, evolve bolt, and any other bolt mods that dont really effect kick like the 530 mod, which is easy and free, and the tape, or tophat mod, that takes all of 10 seconds to do. Those mods arent extensive at all. The 530 just cuts off the two bars on the bolt guy allowing for better flow through the bolt and the tophat mod just decreases the volume of the dump chamber and is supposed to give better efficiency.

Thing is that these mods work against each other kinda. one decreases the volume of the dump chamber, and the other increases it. The mods are very simple and free to do. The orange bolt however is not free, but very simple to replace.

To some degree this is a point I was getting at - I doubt anyone has quantitavely compared them in a controlled situation. We have a lot of qualitative reports, from likely wildly uncontrolled comparisons.

[joeschmo]

you need scientific evidence to tell which has less jolt or kick when you shoot it? I dont. I can tell by shooting the darn things side by side.

What kicks more a .22 or a 12 gauge? you dont need a experiment to find that out.

[dahoeb]

either way,
both markers have very little kick and is neglibable.
i'd love to meet the person who walks off the field saying, "man i wouldn't have been shot out of my viking/dm didn't kick so much, geesh".