E-mags LX or eyes

[p_aint_fun]

Ok all the Emag/Xmag owners out there. Do you think that the level 10 bolt works well enough with electronic firing systems at high rates of fire (15bps or more) to prevent most chops/breaks or do you think that some type of eye is needed to keep up? Sorry if this has been discussed before.

[Outlaw5]

I have an X-MAG and don't have any problem without the eyes turned on. A well tuned Level X with a force feed type hopper (HALO, EGG or WARP and feeder combo) should be all you need to ensure positive paintball feeding into the breech. A well tuned Level X is the heat. Some will disagree and state that you need eyes but maybe their Level X isn't as well tuned as they think ie. giving them the perception that eyes are needed. This is my two sense.

[Automaggot68]

The lvl X kit is a good start but it will NEVER be as good as eyes are.
Ever.

You don't have to tune eyes.
Break them in.
Swap oings carriers, etc.

Eyes don't lower efficiency.
And when eyes break?
It takes about a minute to replace them.

Don't take this as Lvl X is BAD, either, because I'm not bashing it.
I await pro-Lvl X arguments.

[TheTramp]

At the 15bps most people are shoting at tournaments these days I think that the L10 is all you need if you've got a fast loader.

For those going for the super fast semi that newer boards allow, eye's are a nice option. There are going to be more miss-feeds at higher ROF so having the gun not shoot vs. pinch the ball is a plus. It's really a matter of numbers. Less balls pinched = less chance of something breaking.

The real question is: Is it worth a couple of hundred of dollors for that extra protection? I don't really shoot faster than 15bps so it isn't to me.

[Automaggot68]

At the 15bps most people are shoting at tournaments these days I think that the L10 is all you need if you've got a fast loader.

For those going for the super fast semi that newer boards allow, eye's are a nice option. There are going to be more miss-feeds at higher ROF so having the gun not shoot vs. pinch the ball is a plus. It's really a matter of numbers. Less balls pinched = less chance of something breaking.

The real question is: Is it worth a couple of hundred of dollors for that extra protection? I don't really shoot faster than 15bps so it isn't to me.



I agree with the 15bps statement, but the couple hundred dollars more really can't hold to a mag unless you do custom work.
How many electros today require custom work to use eyes?
Very few, if any.

I mean, the Lvl X is pretty much Mag only, and it's the mag's only line of defense, unless you've got an X, Logic's new frame, A Devilmag, or a Hyperframe with PRed/morlock with eyes-- and the ratio to those users versus mech uses isn't very big.


But the thing with eyes are, there no are missed shots (this is referring to lvl x's resetting, not an empty chamber)
There's no delay with eyes.

Edit: didn't mean to ignore your middle statement, just was focussing on the others, bro'.

[SpecialBlend2786]

I agree with the 15bps statement, but the couple hundred dollars more really can't hold to a mag unless you do custom work.
How many electros today require custom work to use eyes?
Very few, if any.

I mean, the Lvl X is pretty much Mag only, and it's the mag's only line of defense, unless you've got an X, Logic's new frame, A Devilmag, or a Hyperframe with PRed/morlock with eyes-- and the ratio to those users versus mech uses isn't very big.


But the thing with eyes are, there no are missed shots (this is referring to lvl x's resetting, not an empty chamber)
There's no delay with eyes.

Edit: didn't mean to ignore your middle statement, just was focussing on the others, bro'.

Very true.

By design, when the LVL X comes into action, air is vented and the pinched ball isnt fired. With eyes the shot isnt skipped, because the marker fires only when the eye logic determins that it is safe to do so.

As it stands, firing a mech mag is all about rhythm. Get in the right rhythm and you can fire it fast. You step out of that rhythm and you can short stroke...which is what the lvl x is there for.

I know that when using an Emag, chuffs happen due to the lvl X. Sure, the first few times you're like "HA IT WORKS!", but after awhile they get annoying, it starts to throw you off. I perfer the eye system overall.

Of course, I personally dont see that much of a need if you run a Halo to begin with, especially with a 15 bps cap.

[Automaggot68]

Very true.

By design, when the LVL X comes into action, air is vented and the pinched ball isnt fired. With eyes the shot isnt skipped, because the marker fires only when the eye logic determins that it is safe to do so.

As it stands, firing a mech mag is all about rhythm. Get in the right rhythm and you can fire it fast. You step out of that rhythm and you can short stroke...which is what the lvl x is there for.

I know that when using an Emag, chuffs happen due to the lvl X. Sure, the first few times you're like "HA IT WORKS!", but after awhile they get annoying, it starts to throw you off. I perfer the eye system overall.

Of course, I personally dont see that much of a need if you run a Halo to begin with, especially with a 15 bps cap.

Gun hits don't help, either.

[TheTramp]

That's all true but remember that the question asked was about eyes/L10 in E-Mags not compairing them in general.

L10 which is probably already in there or $200+ for eyes to be instaled? I still choose L10 at this point.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Gun hits don't help, either.

yeah....

well....

imma curse your macroline now.

[Automaggot68]

That's all true but remember that the question asked was about eyes/L10 in E-Mags not compairing them in general.


Thats a good point, lol.

[p_aint_fun]

I guess my queston really is does the LX work OK at high rates of fire? I have a Dark Timmy also so I am familiar with how the eyes work. Cleaning them after a day of play is such a hassle( I really hate all the wires). I am just concerened that pushing the ROF up too high without eyes might result in a big paint mess or alot of skipped shots. I will be using a halo with the emag by the way. I was just wondering what other emag owners experiences were.

[latches109]

It is all on the hopper. You don't need eyes or a LX as long as your hopper feeds faster and consistently. Think about it.

[Banshee23]

It is all on the hopper. You don't need eyes or a LX as long as your hopper feeds faster and consistently. Think about it.

Without Lvl 10 or eyes you WILL chop eventually. Doesn't matter if you have a Reloader B or a Halo with a cheetah/whatever board. As far as the Lvl 10, it works just fine at high rates of fire. I have a predator board in my emag and I haven't had any problems with chopping yet. I would use a Halo with it though to minimize the amount of chuffs.

[11 Bravo]

I use a Halo with my Emag and have no problems at all. The lvl 10 is almost never engaged. I also think that the lvl 10 bolt is gentler on paint than a bolt that depends on eyes. For those that dont know the level 10 starts out slow and then reaches a certain point and then fully accelerates. This way it does not just slam into the ball.
The other day we were using brittle paint and I was breaking paint left and right in my new Angel and my son was using his Hypermag with lvl 10 and he didnt break one ball and he went thru a case and a half.

[JRingold]

Can I have both, PDS and L-10? Thanks, I'll take two. Not that I have ever used the eye on either of my X-Mags... I love the Level 10 on my classic and it's definately necessary for me on my ULE Trigger, RT-PRO.

[onedude36]

I much more prefer eyes. This is the reason i prefer my viking to my 20bps hypermag. its lvl X hates me with a heated passion.

[Teamslayer76]

When the LVL 10 bolt system is tuned correctly it will preform exactly the same as a bounce/break eye beam system. When its not it will chop. Also the LVL 10 will stop working correctly at around 34.5bps as shown in Z-Man's videos. It will chop about 10 of every 100bps in the fastest shooting marker, the RT Mag. :ninja:

Ohhh one last thing, if your hopper doesnt keep up it will chop. That was also a factor in Z-Man's videos.

Fact!

[11 Bravo]

^^^^^^chop :wow: Not if its set up correctly.

[ThePixelGuru]

The Level X isn't as good as eyes. If you're going all mech, that's cool, but if you're going tournyball and you need an electro, you better be using eyes.

When a ball misfeeds in a Level X Mag, it chuffs. The bolt stops, doesn't chop, goes backwards, the seer catches it, the valve recharges, the trigger resets and it waits for the next shot. It's essentially a blank shot - takes the same amount of time but doesn't fire any paint.

When a ball misfeeds in a system with eyes, the board registers the trigger pull but doesn't fire the marker since the eyes tell it the ball isn't fully chambered. The marker waits until the eyes tell it the ball's entirely in the chamber and ready to go, and then fires the ball if it's within a preset time from when the player pulled the trigger, regardless of what the player's done since.

There's less wasted time with eyes as compared to an anti-chop bolt, basically. If I were playing woodsball or scenarioball of some sort, my ideal marker would be an all mech ULE mag. For tournyball, I'd probably use an ebladed 'Cocker with reflective eyes. It's all about what you prefer, though.

[p_aint_fun]

There's less wasted time with eyes as compared to an anti-chop bolt, basically. If I were playing woodsball or scenarioball of some sort, my ideal marker would be an all mech ULE mag. For tournyball, I'd probably use an ebladed 'Cocker with reflective eyes. It's all about what you prefer, though.

I agree. Since I don't play much tournyball I think I'll be fine without the eyes.

On a side note, I was very glad to see all the responses in this post, even with differing views, not devolve into a flamefest. Nice to see that there are some places in the paintball world that are grown up enough to discuss things and not get into name calling.
Thanks

[TheTramp]

Once again some people are forgetting that we're talking about eyes in an E-Mag not eyes vs. L10 in general.

Is it worth the extra $200 plus to add eyes to an E-Mag?

Or the follow-up question: "I guess my queston really is does the LX work OK at high rates of fire? "

The answer is: Yes it works "OK" at high rates for fire. At 25 bps would I prefer eyes? Yes. Will L10 work also (if perhaps a little slower)? Yes again.

Ask youself if you'll really be firing at 25bps in a game. Do I? No. Do I think you will? No again. :)